Wow why does WOTC hate red so much every card is so bad

Standard is a shit format where unplayable dreck is considered overpowered. I give it odds this card gets banned for bypassing their garbo three mana counterspells.

But the garbo 3 mana counterspell is one of the few cards that CAN counter them

Stifle naught my glorious red lands.

>Wizards nerf red below sea level because aggro causes feelbads
>still top8 pro tours
Being a red player is suffering but this kind of revenge makes it worth it.

because those are situational, even a bad utility land is decent if its effect is commonly useful, doing damage is incredibly often useful and even if it is overcosted that bonus 2 4 damage when you have a dead hand wins games. Even the green desert, which is even more shit still sees some play, it's almost free if you don't play many colours.

because it can be put in instead of a land so it doesn't cost you a card, and in mono red it has pretty much 0 set up cost so there's no reason not to run 4. if you use them, great, if you don't use them you probably didn't lose anything. having to sac lands isn't that much of a cost since red aggro is never gonna win that late in the game anyway and it massively reduces the risk of getting flooded. its a good card.

I'll spare you the months of hanging around MtG circles around the internet and just tell you the grand secret.

Those people who complain about [color] or [archetype] being dead because WotC hates it? They suck at the game. They can't evaluate worth a crap and they're all retarded. They can't figure out decks, they have to wait for someone else to figure it out and then they all dogpile it within seconds. For another example, and this one is especially hilarious, there was nonstop whining about how control was dead because Mana Leak was the only decent counter in Standard and aggro was too good due to Goblin Guide, Vengevine, and just Kuldotha Red in general. There was never going to be a playable control deck again according to these people. Naturally, this went on every single day right up until Caw Blade crushed that Pro Tour in...was it France?

So just disregard them. They'll whine and cry about everything until someone else does the work for them.

>OMG how could wizards think this is ok? This is absolutely unplayable, worst of the cycle goes to red as usual

i would call you guys retarded, but i was there a couple of months ago witnessing countless threads about red being lame and underpowered in AKH and HOU.

Veeky Forums is as bad as magic as it loves to complain.

Too be fair, hazoret is lame as fuck

It's basically a Barbarian Ring effect for Standard. It's not as good as Barbarian Ring but has an upside of being able to sac other Deserts for the effect instead of being a one time use.

why woudl you call us retards? For the shitposting?

It's the only playable god besides the snek
And snek is worse

Woah, very strong, I'm sure it is in no way because the whole HOU is bad as they can get, and it will stay popular even after it rotates out of standard.

it is lame, but people weren't saying she was lame, they were saying it was unplayable

Doesn't mean it isn't lame as fuck
All the gids fucking suck on a creative level and hazoret is the most boring of them all

>guy literally loses his game in the semi finals because he couldn't attack due to it's shit ability

card is trash

As good as Hazoret was in the pro tour, the real MvP really goes to Earthshaker Kenra and Glorybringer in the Mono Red decks. Those two cards pretty much allowed free damage in so many games in the PT.

No card rotated out of standard with HOU, this isn't taking the spot of a better card that can't be played anymore.
That said HOU is a very weak set overall, almost BFZ level.

>the set is such a joke that dealing 2 damage by paying 5 and saccing a land is considered strong and "pro-tour crushing"
Whew.

It's way better than BFZ though. When BFZ came out it was pretty much Dragons of Tarkir block constructed. At least HOU stuff is getting played to a good degree.

But otherwise yes it's not a very high power level set, it's just "average ok" for a set. Not bad, but nothing super great either.

>doing something useful on a land that taps for color and comes into play untapped is good
shocker

>Earthshatter khenra
>Abrade
>the uncommon deserts
>Ammit eternal
>Crook in sideboards
That's it, in BFZ we had
>Gideon
>Ob Nixilis
>dual lands
>man lands
>Ulamog
>sideboard removal like Stasis snare
I don't see much of a difference, besides BFZ being a large set.

It basically means your opponent is playing with 18 life. You just have to fight them down to 2 instead of 0 and then the land finishes the job.

Punny

Heaven forbid you draw more deserts like Sunscorched Desert.

So when are people going to start running mass healing and boardwipes?

Of all the BFZ cards you listed some were sporadic one of or two ofs and sideboard relegation on set release and going into the PT. Only Gideon was ever played 4x copies mainboard in decks at the time. BFZ on release was still pretty much DTK block constructed+Origins. Even looking at PT results and deck representation showed an underwhelming card pool representation from BFZ in general.

That user knew and you made him kill himself.

>worst of the cycle goes to red as usual
literally everyone said Hazoret was the best of the cycle

If you dedicate 8 land slots in your mono color deck to this and Sunscorched Desert, you can deal 20 damage with just lands. Even if you only draw 1 of each, it means your spells only have to burn through a paltry 15 life.

you are overstating it, but you are right, hazzy was better received then i remembered.
Just found this, i love checking out spoiler season:
They could have made both gods cost 2cmc, 1R and 1U respectively, and there would literally be no difference. Cranking them up to 4cmc just ensures they're forever unplayable for no reason. That fucking jackal is so bad it hurts anons, and the bird is a shade better.

i built red sligh back in may.
i told them it just needed a little more reach.
i crushed fnms and top8ed a pptq before HOD was even spoiled.
i tried to warn them.
they didn't listen.

remember when zombies won the pro turn and was utterly useless a week later? same shit is going to happen

aggro decks always do well at the pro tour because the control decks still haven't been figured out

if aggro draws land it is a wasted turn, with this you can make land into damage, making a turn usable, without hurting your curve because 4 is your max really, and 6 if you want earthshaker.

can't blame a card for the users autism

sadly it is mostly kaladesh/Aether revolt constructed... and whatever top 8's, was zombies, now is mono red.

Apparently control decks haven't been figured out for roughly 3 years, since Tarkir.

Rhonas was always considered the best God - and, in a vacuum, he is.

That being said I don't remember anyone saying Hazoret was the worst one, either.

Yeah, from what I remember everyone immediately saw that Bontu and Kefnet were the worst.

It's what happens when the answer suite is bad and the threats were too good. It's only as of recent that there's some playable counters that were added to allow the defensive control style of play to be somewhat viable now.

The meta will adjust and I do not expect Mono R to stay at the absolute top for long.

That's what people keep saying, and I'm still seeing UR Control completely fail to gain any sort of momentum.

Exactly. Kefnet especially is too hard.

Rhonas turns himself on pretty much by himself, all you need is one 2 power creature and three mana to spend.

For Hazoret, the natural gameplan of a Mono-red deck leads to an empty hand, so she's not that hard to turn on either.

> guy literally loses his game when he had lethal because he played too fast

pretty sure the god order was always
black

Saito and Wafo-Tapa both ran UR/x control decks to a decent spot in the PT. Right now even before the PT the metagame for Standard was wide open. The only deck that everyone knew was a thing was Zombies.

I lost pretty hard to weird decks last time. Lots of Elder DeepFiend. So should I just hang on to Magma Spray and Sweltering Suns to combat all the aggressive red bandwagoners?

>Caw Blade crushed that Pro Tour in...was it France
Yeah it was PT Paris. And even leading up to it before Batterskull the deck that was crushing the hardest was UB Control. Aggro wasn't even on the radar because the next best deck was Valakut.

I agree with your sentiment about color/archetype whining. It's just retards who want a team to cheer for and are sad when their team isn't doing well. If they were good at the game at all they would embrace all archetypes and colors even if just to understand them to beat them.

counterspells are fine.

extreme value cards like wrath are cancer.
>'oh huhuh looks like i 4-for-1ed you. better luck next time scrub'

>extreme value cards like wrath are cancer
Symmetrical threat destruction that doesn't work against decks with minimal threats is not a cancerous effect.

And they've grown weaker now that threats have evolved to not be hit with wraths (except now with Hour of Devastation).

There is zero good reason to detest wraths aside from personal preference.

The only people that were Hazoret was the worst one were commander players, simply because Hazoret is still by far the shittiest in that format.

its not the wrath, its the X-for-1. wrath is simply an example of generating extreme value for minimal investment.

Yes. Also Act of Treason type effects should be considered, if anything they're criminally underplayed right now in Red. That is oddly enough the one type of card I saw lacking in so many of the red decks in the Pro Tour.

>Gain control of enemy Glorybringer or enemy Hazoret
>Exert their Glorybringer or let their Hazoret die as a result of Legend rule.
>Their Glorybringer is still exerted and does not untap.

Alternatively you can regain control of your own Glorybringer, get the untap out of the treason effect and exert them again.

Maybe you should play some of the wrath protection cards in Green and White then. Even Hour of Devastation's wrath clause can be beaten with Eerie Interlude

Kari-zevs expertise and eldrazi obligator were both in a lot of the mono red lists

Forgive me if they were, I didn't see every match of the streams as I had to pop out now and then. The only time I saw an Eldrazi Obligator it was played as chump blocker. I only know of one Ramunap Red deck that was running 4x copies of Kari Zev's expertise.

this is maybe the stupidest thing I've read on tcg

While true, red taking over has never been a big deal, or a permanent thing. We're gonna see the meta shift to a lot more red hate, and then that will be that.

>RDW is a thing for the first time since M15
>RDW always does well in the first major tournament in Standard season
>babbys are shocked and appalled because this is their first time seeing RDW

I think 4x expertise isn't a good choice because it's a somewhat situational card, when it's good it's great but sometimes it's sitting mediocre in your hand while you'd rather have another haste creature

It's definitely excellent in glorybringer mirrors though

nobody is appalled or shocked, also wasn't there some kind of aggro/RDW deck that won some big tournaments in origins? i remmeber that 3 mana uncounterable 4 damage spell becoming a big deal.

I think 4x copies or several copies though was the right call though for the metagame of the PT though. Here let me steal your Earthshaker Khenra or Ahn-Crop Crasher and make your shit unable to block as well and I'll hit you twice as hard, oh btw I'll also cast my own Earthshaker Khenra and make something else unable to block as well. It can really screw over the planned combat math of what the opponent would expect, let alone stealing opposing Glorybringers or resetting your own.

Origins and m15 were concurrent right? I think that's what he meant

are you sure? i can't recall, but i feel like they weren't

For a couple months, yes. But Rabblemaster Red had completely changed between M15 and Origins, going from heavy aggro to mostly burn with tokens

What this analysis is missing is that in order for that wrath to be a huge source of card advantage, your creature deck has to be running creatures in to it, and my deck can't be playing creatures to stall. In other words most of the rest of my deck has to be sort of bad.
Let's imagine a metagame where there are 2 viable decks perfectly balanced against eachother, a wrath-based deck that wins with morphling, and vanilla creature stompy. This matchup is 50/50 when the average wrath in a perfectly played game destroys creatures equal to the value of the difference between the creature deck's average creature, and the wrath deck's average non-wrath card.

that's misleading, it wasn't that much time ago origins came out

That doesn't mean red is good, that means after 5 bans everyone else is so shit they lose to the worst red deck wins ever.

If you can make top 8 even after being nerfed into the ground then maybe you actually needed the nerf.

There's never any nerf, it's all in your mind. Also, revenge? Please, you're not the one making the deck nor piloting it.

WotC clearly needs to ban something from this deck

Way too dominant

By their own logic it can't be allowed

Nah, it will balance out just like zombies did. It isn't inherently unfair like Cat Lady or Marvel.

>Their Glorybringer is still exerted and does not untap.
that's not how stealing creatures interacts with exert because the exert wording is 'won't untap during YOUR next untap step'.

they laughed at me when I bought out ALL the Life Goes Ons.

ALL OF THEM

>inherently unfair
>Cat Lady

I disagree. I think that deck was fine

>Adding an infinite combo into what essentially is already a good midrange shell is 100% fine.
/s

they were both in standard at the same time for a few months. mono red performed decently when origins was introduced.

Veeky Forums consistently fails miserably at evaluating the power level of new cards. That they managed to do it once again should surprise no one.

The investment is structuring your entire deck around making the effect more detrimental for your opponent than for you.

user, it doesn't untap during the next untap step, regardless of who controls it.

No you're wrong. It doesn't untap on your untap step, not your opponent's. When it's back under your opponent's control, the Glorybringer can untap as usual.

No, the guy you quoted is right. It says 'your' next untap step, not 'the' next untap step. 'Your' is the person who cast it.

This actually came up a couple of times during the pro tour.
>glorybringer is chilling
>you steal it for 1 turn
>attack and exert
>opponent's next untap step it untaps
Alternatively
>glorybringer exerted
>you steal it for 1 turn and attack without exerting
>opponent's next untap step it doesn't untap

Interesting.
Not sure how to say it, but I thought exert was a mechanic that didn't involve who owned/controlled it.

yeah sometimes magic rules are weird like that.

That would be the case if it was an unexerted Glorybringer that had attacked. The point of playing Treason effects is that almost everytime a Glorybringer enters, the Glorybringer will almost always attack and exert which is when your Act of Treason effects on your turn can be played allowing you to "re exert" the Glorybringer on your side but the original Exert clause still stays when it goes back to your opponent.

However I admit I didn't exactly explain the line of thinking at the time 100% correctly in my post because I didn't mention the state of the Glorybringer at the time but yes the point about the exert clause being specific to the controller at the time is true.

Inherently unfair cards like Reflector Mage?

Face it. One deck had 6 copies in the Top 8 of the Pro Tour. By everything WotC said, that's a dangerousl dominant deck that they need to ban.

Either that, or just go ahead and admit that they don't actually know what the fuck they're doing and stop acting like we just need to trust their inevitable genius.

Well wizards,in their infinite wisdom, knew banning emrakul and smugglers would lead to control lists being dominant. Nothing would drive out new players like a good control list getting anywhere in standard

Reflector Mage did nothing wrong.

FREE REFLECTOR MAGE

RDW is easily shut down, no one was taking it seriously leading up to the pro tour though. UW and Mardu vehicles can slot in three authroity of the consuls, GB constrictor and zombies already a good matchups