How would you roleplay a nazi thats one of the good guys without going full /pol/ or being accused of such...

Depends. If your character is merely a german soldier or a member of the nazi party but still has their own beliefs, set of morals, and goals there isn't much of an obstacle to roleplay other than descending into self parody and kitsch.

If on the other hand the characters defining trait is actually believing nazi ideology and seeking to promulgate it, that is going to be much harder to reconcile with a party of 'good' guys.

Somehow I doubt you even understand the words you are saying.

That's your fault and not mine.

But Rommel wasn't a Nazi

there's only one way to do it; play a person who isn't a nazi at all

Operation Valkyrie on repeat.

What makes you think he wasn't?

Because he tried to assassinate Hitler?

Why do you think he did that?

Fuck off /pol/

I own the doubt, you own the ignorance.

Please don't answer it. This thread is about roleplaying a nazi who's had a change of heart, not your /pol/ bullshit.

>ignorance

Interesting word choice, since I could describe the allied and Jewish interpretations of historical events, as well as from the perspective of the National Socialists.

I bet you can give the allied interpretation, but fail to see it from the other side. That is what ignorance is.

You are simply projecting your ignorance.

please go back to your containment board

Put him up against Cthulhu.

>ignorant
>shitposting
>you don't understand what you're saying
>please stop
>just leave me alone

Damn you got me, i'll change my ways now, after seeing how superintelligent you are.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe
For inspiration

It's a thred about ww2, if you still blindly believe it was as simple as 'the good guys won' with the amount of contradictory evidence out there then it's not /pol/s fault it's yours for not expanding your view of the war

Not even that poster hombre

While I don't put much stock in sweeping narratives and prefer to consider primary sources and differential statistics, it is inevitable to gain a sense of the prevailing mindset of various factions.

>do research
>oh, they actually killed more than just Jews because of some guy that thought real life went by fantasy rules said so
Honestly it only makes the whole third Reich even worse user.
Snow White though, that I can relate with the guy. I like that movie too.

I'm not the other user, you're just a nuisance

>ignorance

UGH SO IGNORRANT XD !!! DOWNVOTE

You'd have to have some pretty bizarre enemies to justify a Heroic Nazi.

>it's a thread about ww2

You could be a Nazi on the Russian war front, Stalin is pretty evil, even if you compared him to a Nazi.

Communism is pretty bizarre

>differential statistics

I have a masters in statistics by the way. Do you mind defining "differential statistics" for me? No offense but it seems like you just made up a bunch of words to try to sound smart...

Not that poster, but Rommel was a general of the German army, not a member of the SS or someone with a significant relationship to the nazi party. He wasn't that aligned with their military decisions even going way back to Operation Dynamo, and as time went on and Hitler replaced capable strategists with morons from the party, men like Rommel grew opposed to the nazis. If you want a military commander that was a nazi and a Hitler ass kisser, go look to the luftwaffe

>all caps
>xd
>Reddit reference
Wow this guy totally isn't from Reddit at all! Stick around newfriend, you'll like it here!

Generalplan Ost made Stalin look like a saint

I'd make him care more about Germany's superiority as a nation instead of a race. He wouldn't want to kill off human resources, and doesn't like how bad of a picture their tactics paint.

I have managed to pull off something like this but it was a Ventrue in OWoD so "good guy" is somewhat subjective. Unfortunately that game never got past the first session so I don't have a storytime to give, just the small bits of his backstory I remember.

A couple of ways.

>Someone who joined the party as a way to advance in their field but doesn't believe in the ideology. Oskar Shindler is a great example here.
>Someone who has become disillusioned and no longer believes though they once did. The Waffen SS had an issue with this.
>Someone who literally has a gun put to their head and told join or die. This happened a lot towards the end.
>Someone who joined the party to protect their family. This happened a lot in the occupied countries though it came back to bite them in the ass later.

Then beyond redemption or realizing how shit the ideology is, I'm not sure how to make a fully indoctrinated Nazi seem heroic without just focusing on how he treats his men well and fights them enemy with idealism keeping him going and just kind of hope people forget he's a supremacist that hopes to one day see the lesser races and weak links be purged. That or he's just a casual nazi and joined more because of how well the Nazi party was doing in rebuilding Germany.

You may be more familiar with the term "descriptive statistics". If you are still lost, I cannot help you.

Is it possible to summarize into a few sentences the three different interpretations you listed? I understand it would be an extreme oversimplification but I would appreciate it.

Times were tough, and even if someone completely disagreed with the Nazi ideology, the safest and most sensible thing for a person to do at the time was to keep their head down and go along with it quietly. I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case for just about any person put into a difficult situation.

It's easy for people to sympathize with the supposed victims. But regardless of what you believe happened, there were definitely more than a few people that decided to shut up, fall in line, and pray that everything would be over quickly. War is no joke, and a campaign is going to take its toll no matter what, mentally and physically. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that there were plenty of regular conscripts that just wanted to get away from the Soviet-Axis front.

Do you know what a differential is? If you did, you wouldn't have said something as laughable as "differential statistics".

Anyways, just calling you out on that. So what are primary sources? The "eyewitness accounts" that contradict each other on every second word?

Take the good, worthwhile qualities that surely still exist in the hypothetical perfect Nazi warrior (national ideal not operational ideal) and strip away the Nazi conceptual lens. Remember, he's not what a Nazi was actually like, nor the kind of soldier that the Nazi leadership actually needed to fuel the movement, but the cultural paragon held up to and by those of the German people that cared or pretended to care about national and personal virtue. The kind of hypothetical idealized Nazi about whom regular Nazis might say "he feels pity for them because of his superior and advanced German spirit and morality, but he will choose his duty in the end and flourish in his resolve because with his superior intellect he cannot fair to unerringly realize that We are right"; then just ignore the dogmatic application of the part after the comma.

A good man, a Nazi, and not a turncoat. Shouldn't be hard.

its not hard at all to play a good guy Nazi seing as Nazi's are by definition the good guys.

holocausthandbooks.com/

thegreateststorynevertold.tv/

You should probably not confuse differential statistics with differential calculus. It's almost as embarrassing as economists from America or the Continent who declare the other's degree false because they speak of Third Party Effects instead of Externalities.

Maybe your education isn't as broad as you'd like to believe, but that's no reason to embarrass yourself online.

What counts as "one of the good guys"? "Saving humanity" from what?

If you actually care about your question, answer.

don't forget to read this

I see no answer to his question and no refutation of any of the hard scientific evidence which disproves the holocaust.

If he had presented any hard scientific evidence disproving the holocaust, I might have been forced to refute it.

janmagnus.nl/misc/mdc2007-3rdedition

Oh looks like I found it, now which variable is the gas and which is Schindler's List? XD

You're a fucking moron.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were a first year with no clue of what you were talking about. I'll leave you alone to save you the embarrassment now.

Just watch man in the high castle.
Just cos you hold particular political beliefs doesn't make you a villain.
Hell half the liberal people I know are fairly extreme in how they view people who don't tow their ideological lines.
A good guy Nazi could totally agree with all of the stereotypically Nazi views and still help people out, believe in the goodness of man and striving for a better future.
In terms of rp, just have them be a nice and honest guy, who just wants what's best for his own.
That's no different than most good guys, if you think about it.
In fantasy, you always have the good guys assume particular 'villain' creatures be subhuman and in need of purging.
Hell almost all the 'goodguys' in 40k are fascist.
How do you think the average LG paladin thinks about goblins?

Exactly how?

Stalin and Communist ideology has a death toll that dwarfs that of the Nazis. Just because they weren't killing people based on race doesn't mean what they did was any less wrong.

If you think anyone on the planet makes Stalin look like a saint you have not done enough reading into Stalins Soviet Union

The OP doesn't actually care about the question. It is just a pretense to post /pol/ shit.

Why are you still defending your fuck up? You could have just used the word "statistics", but instead you said "differential statistics". You were trying to sound smart and you got called out hard. Again with the projection! (projecting your embarrassment)

yeah but an important part is they didn't exterminate every eastern european and settle it with their own citizens
that was top of the nazi's plans

Right.
My bad. I forgot what this place is like, I've been away from tg since every thread was a magical realm one, and only came back cos of a rad and fairly autistic mapping thread.

Lol no fuck up my friend, if you are insistent on unrolling your ignorance to full length I'm ok to watch.

It's rare enough. I've been away for a while myself and I'll tell you some of the things I'm seeing are pretty painful. I'll take magical realm over /pol/ any day.

Different user, but OP can pound sand.
I'm making my next CoC character the friendliest Nazi you've ever seen.

No dice. It is no big deal for evil characters to be friendly, the challenge is to make him both GOOD and a GOOD NAZI.

It requires a little bit of finagling on your GM's part to really work, though. Do you have a good one?

No, they just shipped off many millions to slave camps, robbed and starved half of their populace, and executed millions.

Yes, Stalin was a bad guy, but Hitler was leagues out of his reach.
This isn't a hard concept to grasp unless you have some sort of primitive binary morality

You're not making this any harder.

That sounds like a nazi captain america, or captain germany in this case.

Pure amount of killing can be considered a kind of evil. Reasons for killing, public justifications for killing, methods of mobilizing a population for killing; these and more can be considered other kinds of evil.

If you really want to understand, my thought goes like this: more killing equals more damage, but worse character leading to killing equals evil.

You should google "tragedy vs evil". You may find it an interesting topic.

Yes, exactly! Stripped of the politcalist lens that makes America and Americanism "always right as a matter of course". Cap when America turns out to not be the good guys, Cap who loves not the America that is but the America that should be, Cap who inwardly cringes with disgust at the worst elements of his country - that! But for Nazi Germany.

Fuck the OP and his reasons, I'm genuinely wondering how to make this work.

...well holy shit, I think you just made a good guy Nazi that buys into the ideology and still actually makes sense

You simply couldn't play a dedicated Nazi, because to be a dedicated Nazi is to accept their ideas of the superiority of their master race and the necessity of enslaving or exterminating the subhuman races.
Now a guy who joined the party just for the political bonus, maybe.

We've got some good ideas already, what do you think of them so far?

I guess this thread wasn't a waste after all.

>primitive binary morality

Or I just look at the amount of suffering Stalin caused and saw that it was far higher. Hitler was a monster but did not have even close to as many victims.

Seriously, google "tragedy vs evil". Evil is more than "amount of harm".

That is only because you consider killing for eugenics worse than killing for dissent. Which is a childish value judgement.

Stalin was the General Secretary from 1922-52, Hitler was only in power for twelve years, Hitler killed far more people year by year and did far more damage to the European order than Stalin ever did

Don't.

Even a person who was a Nazi would see how fucked up the party and the symbol is and so would throw it away.

Cap would need to live during the Indian Wars to compare to Nazi Germany.

Oversimplifying Nazi philosophy into pure eugenics is grossly misleading. And again, your basic assumption is that more suffering = more evil.

Go watch the video, it's absorbing and way better than anything you'll find in this thread.

No he didn't. He made a superficial argument that relies on the reader to only see things on the surface level without actually taking bloody tallies. It's an argument that preys on naitvete

Fuck you. Hitler is an idiot and is the reason we won't have a natsoc state in our life time and why we can't even talk about it.

the only thing Stalin did wrong was purge the party members advocating for German genocide after WWII

We're not weighing the moral debt of countries here, just trying to formulate a way for the guy to build a character he can believe in within the given criteria. As such, the only measure of success is him and how satisfied he is with the idea.

But nazis were the good guys.

But see, if they don't buy into the ideology or at least join out of believing that the Nazi party is the way to rebuilding Germany than there's no point in this thread. A good person that joined the party because he had to, made his life easier, or to get ahead wouldn't really count to me as a true nazi.

I think if that's the argument you want to make, then out of all the great dictators, Hitler is probably the most sympathetic.
Stalin was a paranoid lunatic whose only interest was in power. Intelligent, a smooth talker, and with muscle to boot. Trotsky was the only hope the USSR had, and Stalin had him killed. He had no higher cause.
Mao was a megalomaniac who enjoys the highest k/d of any person that ever lived. He also fucked kids because he believed it would prolong his life, and most of his plans ended up backfiring terribly. Again, no higher cause.
Mussolini, just look at his lair. The dude had an ego the size of the moon. He was constantly slapping medals on his own chest.
I do not like Hitler. But after actually studying the biographies of these people on a casual level, I think he was the only one who was actually killing for a higher cause. If we're going to rate evil based on intent, a higher cause is a lower amount of evil than personal gain, I expect.

Supposing we disagree on the above, which I imagine we probably will, can you articulate why racially motivated or nationalistic mass killing is of less noble intent than mass killing for ideological or class differences? Both are driven by a very similar motivation - the betterment of a specific group: the nation in the case of the former, and the proletariat in the case of the latter. I don't quite yet grasp how one can be more or less evil unless we go back to the numbers game: which ideology dehumanizes a larger swath of the population?

An actual good answer. Shame its in a thread started for only pol shit

>Superman_laughing_as_tomahawk_bounces_off_his_chest.png

But Cap never had to deal with, let's say, George Washington owning slaves. Cap didn't live in the Revolutionary time and realize how fucked up slavery was and having to see that the figurehead (which is probably debatable) of the country's movement being a part of this cruel system.

Naziman would.

Every German knew what was happening to the Jews, to people who met certain criteria of being sent away. Naziman definitely would too. His party would be inseparable from it all.

>How would you roleplay a nazi thats one of the good guys

Historically.

The higher cause is the evil part. To get good people to do evil, becomes much easier with a higher cause.

And to believe that Stalin and Mao didn't operate under the nominal purview of any "higher causes" is kind of laughable.

When you do harm with no higher cause except your own advancement, that's just plain old competition and greed.

> But after actually studying the biographies of these people on a casual level

...stop...just stop...

Read more about Hitler's works. His office. His projects. And no, a "higher cause" is garbage justification for evil. Don't split hairs like this, nothing good comes from it.

The higher cause is the evil part. To get good people to do evil, becomes much easier with a higher cause.

And to believe that Stalin and Mao didn't operate under the nominal purview of any "higher causes" is kind of laughable.

When you do harm with no higher cause except your own advancement, that's just plain old competition and greed. "Higher causes" that lead to tragic outcomes is where evil lies.

>"Heehee, if I call him a boogeyman, I don't have to respond to his argument, heehee"

You do realize that there was widespread resentment towards the jews in Germany for a reason? Jews were not innocent victims. They had brought the hatred of Germans upon themselves via their actions.

>Just cos you hold particular political beliefs doesn't make you a villain.

Yes they do. Now we gotta get very specific with those beliefs but yes they do.

>In fantasy, you always have the good guys assume particular 'villain' creatures be subhuman and in need of purging.

I actually can't think of any off the top of my head.

>Hell almost all the 'goodguys' in 40k are fascist.

40k has no good guys, moron. That's the point of the setting.

>How do you think the average LG paladin thinks about goblins?

Goblins are evil cuz lol magic so I don't see the moral ambiguity here.