So roughly how strong are lovecraftian monsters compared to other monsters

and yet

Spiral energy beats everything in common Cthulhu mythos excluding outer gods

>and yet...
...Nia died.

and yet

Spirals?

>excluding
Nah. Spiral power is basically shonen waagh exaltation with absolutely no upper limit. It is an omnipotent, endless force of anti-nihilism and I fucking assure you that if the outer gods existed in setting they would eventually get ROW ROW'd.

Azathoth is meta itself, I don't think something like spiral energy can take him

Didn't the entire final battle basically take place in a meta universe where everything is conceptual?

Spiral energy warps reality but it's limited by both willpower and the fact that if overused it might destroy the universe, thematically spiral energy should beat outer gods but if we're going by how it functions and what it's done in universe it falls short of the outer gods

Nope, they just didn't give a shit about physics.

I think it took place in the entire universe because they were that big by then, that's still not enough to kill outer gods though

>if overused it might destroy the universe

Which I guess we could state as Azathoth waking up because shit got a bit too exciting.

Yea but that is what is scary about azathoth. The entire universe is his concept.

If the spiral energy hit him, he would wake up, and it would stop existing.

But on to ops question, could Cthulhu beat hellsing's alucard?

Is exactly what the avatar of the outer gods would say, in the moment where all seems lost and hope is gone.

But then simon shakily forces his ganmen to stand and delivers an echoing monologue to stir even the hearts of conceptual entities at the heart of reality itself. Then he drills a fucking hole in them.

One of these days I'm going to run a stupid no-ceiling anime game.

>I think it took place in the entire universe

They were standing on a single galaxy. A large one, but still. Compared to the observable universe, that's really, really fucking tiny. A percent of a percent.

Man, i dunno why people latch on to cthulhu specifically. Like he's essentially a jobber just house-sitting on earth and taking a nap on the interdimensional couch. He's a fucking nobody compared to most other things in the mythos, and he almost wrecked everything in what equates to a twitch of sleep apnea.

It's entire shtick is going over the top with hot blooded fiery passion and doing what should be impossible by any sort of logic or rules. It didn't go beyond the universe because it didn't need to, but it very much seems like it should be able to. The outer gods are basically big representations of anti-spiral philosophy, and fighting big nihilist things in ways they shouldn't be able to

And yet.

Probably, maybe not if you stick only to the original short story but the TTRPG and I'm pretty sure some stories in the later mythos describe Cthulhu as being partially extra-dimensional which would probably mean he can take anything thrown at him by Alucard since he's still limited to this dimension and its laws of physics

Fighting things in ways they shouldn't be able to is basically the whole point and nature of spiral power. I mean its ultimately a battle of themes/tone.

Alucard and Cthulhu are both physically unkillible.

However,
Alucard has a weakness to holy weapons and got chopped up by wire

Cthulhu got hit by a ship, the only damage he took was nothing

Junji Ito is a primo Lovecraftian successor.

Who's actually the strongest vamp? Helsing Alucard, Castlevania Dracula, or Caine? Could the strongest beat a hight priest like Cthulu, or even an outer god? How about teamed up?

He has the terrifying cosmic horror that makes lovecraft scary, and the haunting body horror

I think it's because Cthulhu is more described with more detail in the story? And the whole "fhtang" thing
IIRC Yog-Sothoth looks like a bunch of glowing balls tied together or something like that

>doing what should be impossible by any sort of logic or rules

Hardly something that's anathema to the blind, mad Nuclear Chaos, the Idiot God. Part of his essence is the death of any such concept. If anything spiral power would be staying more true to his nature than most other things, embodying the dream being a dream. Which would also be why overusing it ain't recommended, you don't want too much of this one in your life.

Does cthulhu even have blood?

They would stand a good chance but Cthulhu is just stupid.

And he is just a priest, not even one of the big guys.

Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror kind of only works when humanity and a few other insignificant races in the world/universe.

When you start adding enough power and sci-fi/supernatural gifts to the "good guys", it kind of lessens the horror a bit over time.

Having a chance to fight removes the main crux, i'd say.

I wonder who's behind this post

>Could the strongest beat a hight priest like Cthulu, or even an outer god?

Inflicting some kind of defeat on Cthulhu could well be within the powers of someone who himself is powerful enough to have a global impact just by being.

But from there to taking on the Outer Gods is rather like the difference between you taking on our current Pope in a fistfight, to giving God the middle finger and trying to take on Michael when he comes down to kick your teeth in. Or if you know your Gaiman, trying to take down one of the older siblings.

Unless you're talking about Azathoth, in which case it's Big G in person who has decided that you will not be, aren't being, and has never been.

I assume fighting Azathoth with SPIRAL POWAH would basically be like achieving Amaranth (a la TES) , and then immediately putting the dreamer in a headlock and giving him a cosmic noogie

>giving God the middle finger

Sounds fun

Any conversation discussing Cthulhu's power level misses the point of the concept entirely. Cthulhu is beyond our ability to understand- the giant octopus-headed blob is just our brain's best attempt at translating what's there into something we can describe, and the mere sight of him still drives people irrevocably insane. Death as a concept has no meaning to him. He wouldn't fight Alucard. He wouldn't know Alucard was there. He'd keep sleeping. And as other people have pointed out, he's comparatively tiny in Lovecraft's cosmology.

You don't fight Cthulhu. You fight the maniacs who are trying to wake him up, because if they manage to get him out of bed we're all straight fucked.

>blah blah blah incomprehensible cosmic blah

Lovecraft was a pansy and thought niggers and salad were as scary as ebil space gods

Alucard was a Lovecraftian eldritch abomination, though. He'd been experimented on enough and eaten the souls of enough freaky monsters that he was no mere vampire, at the start of Hellsing

And End of Series Alucard, post-Schrodinger powers, is pretty much ontologically unkillable. You'd basically need the Living Tribunal or unbound Spectre to slap him down at that point.

To fight him is to fight creation itself. Simon very specifically did NOT do that. He lived life to its fullest with it (because that's what it is), but he did not use it to deny death. He remained part of the natural order of things, he remained part of the dream. He did not overuse spiral power.

I think it all depends on if we are talking pre-schrodinger or post. If post alucard could probably win, pre, he can't really kill Cthulhu

Can you fight Shoggoths and Star Spawn?
I don't remember their powers very well

>Cthulhu couldn't even beat one dude in a boat.

HMS Thunderchild vs. Cthulhu

Who wins

Shoggoths can be burned and blown up because they're just made of regular matter and energy. Star spawn are less so, so bullets are probably equally likely to just pass right through them. You'd need special wizard powers to fight them at the least.

Shoggoths can theoretically be electrocuted IIRC

And the Elder Things fought a war against the Star Spawn and won. Given the Elder Things were one of the most 'normal' alien species in the Mythos, being made of regular matter, humanity could (theoretically) fight them if we achieved the same tech level

Yeah definitely. They're kind of strong but well within the range of killability, even without crazy meta bullshit power

>We've only ever encountered random nosehairs of theirs that slipped into our world because a mad sorceror tried to summon them
Damnit man I was drinking!

>Can X beat Cthulhu
Considering how Cthulhu unmakes reality simply by existing I'd say no.
Unless you have something with similar reality bending power

Not the guy but you do realize that the big G of the lovrcraft universe is basically everything that is, has, or will exist. Anything you post is simply a part of him. And that waking him basically ends EVERYTHING.

Nah he's just a big ugly squid pope. He's a punk

>Considering how Cthulhu unmakes reality simply by existing I'd say no

What? No. He's an old, ancient high priest and minor god in that he has cultists, not a breaker of worlds.

Even Nyarlathotep, who is magnitudes above Cthulhu in terms of importance and power, doesn't do that just by existing. The fact that the world doesn't shatter given that both Cthulhu and Nyarlathotep are both a constant presence on Earth should indicate that, no, that's not something they do.

Didn't the P5 protagonist kill the demiurge Yaldabaoth?

And in SMT IVA you kill Yahweh. In his house

Woop. Forgot my comment

Yeah, so? There's plenty of shit in fiction that calls that a fair fight. Hell, pic related were literally specifically created to shit down the throats of beings exactly like that

>Nah he's just a big ugly squid pope.
That's not him, that's his shadow
Or rather the closest thing to his shadow that the human mind can currently visualize

Magic=reality breaking down

I've never been able to get over how goofy the skintight shorts are. The rest of his design is great, but...

Well, the problem is that reality literally cannot exist without Azathoth. To kill him is to doom literally every other being in existence to oblivion.

>Magic=reality breaking down

So considering that in Lovecraft humans and serpent men can use magic, they unmake reality too. Alright then.

Cthulhu's just a squid pope, man. That's all he is and all he'll ever be. Get a new favourite deity, like Shub-Niggurath or Nyarlathotep. At least Nyarlathotep has a personality.

Then make it so it can. It's not hard. Jeez.

The whole point of the lovecraft mythos is that the universe runs on the whims of powerful beings that are so far above us that that there is nothing we could ever do, no power we could ever attain as a species or civilization, that would ever make us worthy of their momentary attention.

Khorne, on the other hand, spends all day fuming about how this one old fuck from Earth can bitchslap him from beyond the grave, and resorts to farming humans for food and power.

Seems pretty clear to me that the chaos gods rank lower than the Mythos simply by fact that they NEED humans.

Or Nodens. Nodens is a dope god that lets you ride on his mystical chariot and never threatens to destroy human civilization.

>You need knowledge, not power

Or a dog.

Could a Hound of Tindalos fuck Cthulhu's shit up, considering they're basically masters of the angles of time, and R'lyeh is basically full of angles?

You mean Castlevania Alucard?
Because he kills Cthulhu. Both of them thanks to a translation error.

Well it can't. It's like trying to turn the TV on without turning the TV on. It's not impossible because there's some kind of mechanical problem. It's impossible because there's a fundamental contradiction.

Also, of course, there's no real reason to kill Azathoth. He doesn't really do anything except dream reality into existence. Being blind and an idiot will do that.

Well, Wilbur Whatley was mostly made of earth matter. So dogs and presumably guns work fine. His brother is an entirely different story.

Nodens is basically the only objectively non-cuntish god in Lovecraft

It's like he exists to balance out the fact that Nyarlathotep is a cunt 24/7 and the others don't have enough of a personality to be either cunts or non-cunts

Well, he's subjectively a cunt. Once you ride on his mystical chariot you literally cannot go back to living a normal life because your soul is stuck there or something.

It is, ultimately, your choice to get on the chariot though.

>no power we could ever attain as a species or civilization, that would ever make us worthy of their momentary attention.

The mythos is full of humans (and snakemen) obtaining divine power or patronage through offerings or weird sex so I doubt that's "the whole point of the lovecraft mythos"

The oldest of course

The thing about Elder Things is that they were meant to be the Badass Normal in the Lovecraftian Mythos, they were not only made of normal matter, they thought and perceived in a manner similar to Humans, they lacked the esoteric thought patterns of the Mi-Go or Yith.

That said, weren't the Star Spawn a bitch to beat because half of their presence wasn't in the material?

You seem to be willfully ignoring the fact that the spiral races were successfully exterminated and contained for millennia. Simon was a freak of nature, a bunch of spiral warriors before him managed to be strong enough to escape the chains of their planets and STILL died like bitches to the spiral graveyard trap.

Simon succeeded because he was an outlier to the Antispiral's 'absolute despair' containment plan. If they had just thrown their best stuff at him immediately, rather than giving him time to grow, they could have crushed him before he had the opportunity to amass the power to challenge them. Instead, they kept assuming he would fail at the same points that previous warriors did with the "you can win... PSYCHE!" fakeout techniques.

Spiral Power, on its own, does not result in victory. If it did, Lordegenome would have won the first time and Simon never would have been born.

Noden is a cunt , I am glad that he is dead now

Yeah, same with the Mi-Go. They ultimately just made treaties with most of them because they couldn't permanently beat them.

The thought patterns of the Mi-go aren't that esoteric. They're basically a species of cunts who think putting human brains in jars is hilarious, and also scientific.

Plus, night gaunts are cool.

Anyway, it really depends on the setting rules for whether Lovecraft stuff can be defeated. If its a pessimist/nihilist/horror setting, then no , no effort will avail and everything is meaningless. If its a heroic/optimistic setting, then yeah the heroes will find a way. Azathoth is a setting element , not a real character, and wanking how powerful the concept of ultimate nihilism is just pointless

Yeah. Azathoth pretty explicitly isn't an actor on any level. His mystic squid flutists are probably more dangerous than he is simply because they have agency.

If the Mi-Go are so tough, how did they drown in a river like a bunch of bitches?

So? If you can't turn on a TV that doesn't exist, then you don't have much of a chance, but I'm saying that killing logic is just as within these people's power. It is literally, canonically within the ability of an Exalt to beat the concept of "things exist in relation to other things" to death. With his fists.

The Elder Things were defeated by mentally handicapped construction equipment and forgot how to make internal heating.

So let's not get into the minutiae of the abilities of Lovecraft races.

Another fun what if question, what could lovecraftian horrors do to pic related? I don't think much. Especially if he's in his realm

The Elder Things... Weren't the most clever of races. By that point they were heavily degenerated, anyway.

They just didn't believe hard enough

Humans should ally with ghouls, cats, and Elder Things to defeat all the rancid Great One worshippers infesting our green Earth.

Which is humans begging for scraps and getting nothing worth mentioning.

So, what? You use eldritch magic to invoke the name of Cthulhu to summon a byahkee to give you a ride? Big whoop. That's a special trick to humans, but Cthulhu isn't even involved in the transaction. You are just using his name to get your foot in the door to the servant race of a servant race of an elder god.

Like, Dagon. We consider Dagon a god. Dagon is just a big fishman with a few tricks. The Deep Ones are not major players, they just know more about what is going on that we do.

The only major player in the mythos that is aware we exist is Nyalarthotep. He finds it funny to mess with us, and his job specifically requires him to interact with the lower orders of beings as a herald and a messenger.

In one of the Delta Green books, didn't one of the future scenarios have humans, Elder Things, and Yithians teaming up against an awakened Cthulhu and his friends?

>You use eldritch magic to invoke the name of Cthulhu

Nah nigga, we're talking about using eldritch magic to invoke real gods, not squid popes

Oh right, Yithians. How could I forget about them.

There are actually a lot of bro-tier races in the Mythos.

I love how Yithians are just nerds who just want to nerd out.

Plus they're adorable.

Which establishes that spiral power can fail.

Really, spiral power is one of the worst things you can bring to a Mythos fight. One, because you don't actually understand how it works (and that's dangerous ground in general when the mythos is involved) but most importantly: the effectiveness of spiral power is directly dependent on your mental state.

Against an enemy whose defining feature is fucking with your head and has shit like psychic waves that are powerful enough to drive people insane around the globe just from Cthulhu rolling over in his sleep.

One good psychic attack and your spiral warrior loses the very thing he needs to channel spiral power in the first place: his will.

...

But he literally ends the entirely of existence if he wakes up. Not in any physical sense. Literally just poof. An exact of example is whatever dream you were having and you wake up. Poof, it's gone. That is literally what would happen. And even if you do kill him for some retarded reason since he doesn't do shit then everything ends anyway because you literally kys. Every facet of existence real or not is a part of him including you. This fight is stupid.