/5eg/ - D&D Fifth Edition General

Also this

>In which case it has an AC equal to 10 + its Dexterity modifier + its natural armor bonus
When you use Unarmored Defense, your AC calculation changes to 10 + Dexterity modifier + Constitution/Wisdom modifier. This formula does not include natural armor.

So the creature simply loses its natural armor when it learns unarmored defense? Doesn't make sense.

That's not how their natural armor ability works.

It's for balance purposes. Get over it.

Sounds more like an unnecessary nerf to me.

well if by "Unarmored Defense" you mean "take the hits like a bitch" yes. Armor Class isn't just raw taking-hits power, it's also dodging and parrying and etc. abilities. This is why strength attack rolls overpower AC: parries are negated with brute force, dodges are too slow, armor gets smashed through.

Having a free +3 to AC that could stack with other AC calculations is absurdly broken

That looks an awful lot like you took it from a different DnD-alike. Definitely not the stats for a Lizardfolk in 5e.

Sounds like you're either trying to make a Lizardfolk Monk in the hope of giving yourself a very high AC, in which case the answer you're looking for is "ask your GM, Veeky Forumss opinion doesn't matter", or you're trying to make an NPC using PC rules, in which case the answer is "don't do that, you can assign any stats to any monster as long as your players think its fair/logical in play".

Or just a setting neutral adventure based around Modrons.

Or he just likes them.

Exactly. A creature with unarmored defense uses dodging and parrying as an "armor" like you said, so a creature with natural armor should have a class of armor plus its ability for unarmored defense.

Page 282 from DMG. There are other examples.

>Jeremy said this

Well holy fuck, my DM will pretty much follow his ruling for anything and I'd been planning on a Lizardfolk Sun Soul.

It means anything with natural armor can NEVER be unarmored.

>Tell me about liches in your games, 5eg
Extinct. Is what everybody wants to believe. It's been hundreds of years since the last incident involving a lich and the knowledge of transformation ritual is thought to be lost.

Surely somebody could petition the gods for some arcane shit, they like to mix it up. Vampires are too queer.

>natural ARMOR
>UNARMORED defense
:thinking:

Now you're getting it.

It means a creature with natural passive defensive properties should add those statistics to their defense attribute (a.k.a. Armor Class).

If you are going to judge the Armor Class as strictly Armor-related just because of the name, then unarmored defense shouldn't be even used for AC calculations.

I've never played a Bard before, but I was planning on trying my hand at a Half-Orc Valor Bard. Any suggestions/tips? Should I stick with 1h/shield or ranged? Do I get anything out of using a 2her? How offensive can I get?

You want a level 1 character to have an AC of 20?

>Okay so for this you need to move very flexibly
>just strip off all that skin you're wearing so you can access unarmored defensive techniques

>peel off your hardened skin
>chop off your body shells
>cut off your thick hide
>there you go, now you can use dodge and parrying and sidestepping as part of unarmored defense

>then unarmored defense shouldn't be even used for AC calculations
user are you autistic?

I'm not judging armor class by the name, I'm judging unarmored defense by its name. You do not get unarmored defense while using armor.

Why can't a naturally armored creature use unarmored defense abilities?

Because they're entirely different ways of avoiding damage

>Page 282 from DMG. There are other examples.
Ah, interesting. I haven't read that section of the DMG.

Third option, then; you're trying to create a PC using NPC rules. Even worse than the first option. The rules for PC Lizardfolk are in Volo's and they're quite different to the ones for quickly knocking together an NPC.

To be honest, that +3 AC is pretty dangerous even on an NPC. A GM might think that the sword and shield dragonscale-wearing lizard knight they knocked together would make a pretty cool boss fight, but if they gave the guy an AC of 23 based on that table then everyone who makes attack rolls is going to be miserable fighting him. The CR24 Ancient Red Dragon only has an AC of 22.

Because it breaks game balance.

This has become off-topic, we are arguing if there should be both AC and a second mechanic strictly for things like sidestepping, dodging, parrying and other defensive mechanisms, but the intention of AC is to sum all of those into one thing.

No, I'm not. It says creatures with natural armor bonus add it to their AC, and if you use Wild Shape you keep your class features e.g. Unarmored Defense.

Because an attack that is powerful enough to get through one is powerful enough to get through the other, so they can't be considered to stack.

But seriously, the answer is . It's a game. Why can a level 20 dude shrug off being stabbed while asleep and tied up? Why does the same healing spell completely restore an ordinary person but not that same level 20 dude? Because it is a game. Narrate something that makes sense in the moment, but stick to the rules of the game, because it is a game.

>fail dodge
>somehow my natural armor doesn't absorb any damage
wew

>It says creatures with natural armor bonus add it to their AC
No, it says to give a +3 AC bonus to Lizardfolk NPCs. These rules are completely separate from the rules for PCs and you should not be conflating the two.

Using Wild Shape is just a commonly sanctioned version of using NPC rules to make PCs.

See >A monster that doesn't wear armor might have natural armor, in which case it has an AC equal to 10 + its DEX m + its natural armor bonus
>+ its natural armor bonus

This discussion is over, lads.

What do you use to identify enemies when playing on a grid? We use spare dice, but we are looking for something better. The DM in another group had these tokens which were great, but I can't find those anywhere.

That would be damage reduction's place

>Crawford tells us his house rule
Fuck off, there's nothing conclusive about how the rule works there
he's wrong anyway

How strong/good is 3 (2 at 7th level, 1 at 3rd) rerolls with accepting second result at 10 level for knowledge checks (WIS and INT) on barb, who most likely would dump those two anyway? Presented charsheet to DM, he hasn't said anything yet. We're both new, so I'm unsure and don't want to ask for too much free stuff (current aim is to add some flavour).

...

Again, those are the NPC creation rules, not the PC rules. I refer you to for how Lizardfolk's natural armor ACTUALLY WORKS.

My group uses a mix of random figures, coins, dice... sometimes we use Skittles, and whoever land the killing blow gets to consume it.

Our DM has bunch if warhammer minies of orcs, skeletons and goblins and we use those to represent pretty much everything.

Why do the rules say natural armor bonus is added to AC and not damage reduction, then?

They are creature rules, not just lizardfolk. A shit ton of beasts, monsters, etc have natural armor bonus, and a druid/barb should absolutely use their unarmored defense class feature along with their beast form natural armor.

Only if your GMs name is Jeremy Crawford.

But seriously, I'm the GM for my game, so I'm right. Anyone else with a different opinion who is GMing their own game is also right. The guy putting forward his "this sort of character should have super AC" argument is probably wrong, because he sounds like he's trying to make a PC using all the rules he can get his hands on, and his GM (statistically speaking) either doesn't exist or isn't going to agree when he turns up with his Lizardfolk Druid Monk Whatever with AC 27.

Any interesting multiclasses for a Land Druid? The rest of my group is new and so far stuck to very cookie cutter characters, thought I might be able to mix things up with an odd multiclass.

Stats are 8, 14, 14, 10, 16, 14 at the moment and I'm level 3. I thought about maybe Rogue for skills or Sorcerer for metamagic.

Because they're using it as armored defense.

Paper, cardboard or styrofoam tokens. Numbers, letters or colored pins and so on to identify them.

>the rules are wrong, stop using them

>and a druid/barb should absolutely use their unarmored defense class feature along with their beast form natural armor.
No, they shouldn't.

The limitations for wild shape say
>You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so.
Your animal form can not physically use your unarmored defense

The rules aren't wrong, you are.

>if the new form is physically capable of doing so
????????

This whole thing would be easily avoided if they adopted something else than Armor Class, like Defense Class or Defensive Mechanism, because defense involves more than armor. This is beyond the discussion, though.

This is pathethic
dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-january-2016
>Similarly, a druid/barbarian who transforms into a beast form that has natural armor can use either the beast’s natural armor or Unarmored Defense (you aren’t considered to be wearing armor with natural armor).

Oh now you are using kindergarden arguments.

You are wrong, unarmored defense absolutely works in beast form and you can pick which AC to use. This is RAW.

>can use either the beast’s natural armor or Unarmored Defense
But you can't fucking use BOTH, which is what the original fucker was arguing for

You said in >Your animal form can not physically use your unarmored defense

What are some ways to interrupt/prevent a party's long rest?

That's a different user

C'mon! Even Crawford admits that rules are not exactly clear about this one.

Also: I am not native speaker, but i am pretty sure saying "i err on the side of generosity .." does mean "It is not right way to do it, but ..."

a shield is only armor if you hit it, 3e adopted all of those things and you know what? It fucking sucked. AC shouldn't stack with other AC because this is what you're using to defend yourself at the current moment in time.
>Worn armors other than shield should be damage reduction
fite me

I want a bottle of Goodberry wine. Given a bottle requires about 600 grapes, and the whole thing needs to be done in 24 hours, how many characters do you need to pull it off?

Depends on their character levels. Wine has to ferment for fucking ages though.

One use of Goodberry produces 10 berries, so you would need to cast the spell 60 times to obtain 600 berries.
A level 20 Land druid has 22 spell slots.
With Natural Recovery, this druid can regain all 4 1st-level spell slots and all 3 2nd-level spell slots on a short rest.
If the druid uses all 22 spell slots to cast Goodberry, then takes repeated short rests to regain 7 spell slots each, it would take 6 hours of resting to make up the remaining 38 spell slots needed, which can easily be done in a single working day.

Therefore, a single level 20 Land Druid can make enough goodberries in a day to make a bottle of goodberry wine.

>but i am pretty sure saying "i err on the side of generosity .." does mean "It is not right way to do it, but ..."
It doesn't meant that. It means there are multiple ways to interpret the ruling and he gives the PC the best possible outcome

Lego minifigures with non-human heads. We use dressed up minifigures for PC's.

I collect bottlecaps, so using ones of different colors helps for me. If people are facing a bunch of goblins, for example, I'll say "there's a goblin with nasty, infected orange eyes (orange cap), one a bit jaundiced (yellow cap), one with scars and scratches all over its body (red cap) and one wearing some kind of salvaged blue tabard (blue cap)."

So are immortal mystics good fun to play as?

Keep in mind that goodberries lose their power within 24 hours. That''s gonna be some crappy wine.

It wouldn't last long enough to ferment. The most you could make was goodberry juice.

Be druid, find a candle of invocation matching your alignment, infinite berries.

Doesn't Natural Recovery only work once per long rest

Xanathar Guild in general

Ask them if they're sure they want to try to rest here. This is a good all-around DM trick to make players second-guess their decisions.

Have monsters find them and, rather than just attack them like idiots, have them alert the entire dungeon first and have every monster convene on the PCs at once. Next time they'll know not to rest if it isn't safe.

Introduce a time limit somehow. If they take a long rest, the portal will close or the hostages will die or the dungeon will take off into orbit.

Shit, you're right. Guess you'd need at least 3 druids then, since 22 base + 7 from short rest is just short of half of what you'd need to cast

>X sets a watch during rest, exhaustion point
>Lantern/fire/torch during full rest
>How much spare oil did you guys bring again?

That sounds super annoying and unfun, and probably just force someone to know alarm as ritual spell instead.

>the rogue has 300 flasks of oil

It is not a serious threat but it IS a threat. Bitches best watch their backs in the dungeons.

>If I'm going out, I'm taking everyone with me

unless you are autistic enough to know how much oil a lamp burns over X amount of time you could punish them in a different way

say- increasing the chances of an encounter due to the bright "here we are" sign that a lamp is?

>not enslaving a fire mephit as a torch
How basic.

You are allowed to stand watch for not longer than 2 hours during long rest without losing the benefit.

>not representing everything the party owns with IRL objects
>not setting fire to a torch when the party uses one to see how long it lasts

I only intended it as a way to subtley influence their actions, keeping them on their toes and make them second guess themselves, like previous post I give no fucks about how long lantern oil burns, just maybe they don't know that.

Right, the guy on watch did not receive the benefit of long rest and received exhaustion instead.

... user, a standard party has 4 players in 3.5e, and 5 in 5e. If you are playing with less players, maybe, but in most cases you have enough people to keep rotational watch over the entire long rest. And after they get interrupted they are allowed to fight etc for an entire hour before the long rest is interrupted.

>putting the blind deaf fucks on watch ever

Why the fuck do you have blind and deaf people in your adventuring party

I didnt dump their stats

Long rest and exhaustion from lack of rest aren't actually related; this is just a very, very common house rule. In fact, the only penalty of not receiving long rest is... Not receiving long rest. The GM is free to make judgment calls on when to dish out exhaustion stacks, but "not receiving long rest for 24 hour" does not mechanically equate to exhaustion.

Though even I would hand out a stack of exhaustion if someone refuse a long rest - say they take 8 short rests instead of a long rest in order to cheese something up.

What is the absolute most fuckery you can get up to with a time stop spell?

>say they take 8 short rests instead of a long rest in order to cheese something up
What could you possibly accomplish in 8 short rests that you couldn't with a long rest?

If you're a warlock it means you could cast a normal amount of spells in a day

delet this right now