Forever GM Thread

>Been DM'ing for a little over a year
>Have created a fun setting that my players love
>Enjoy coming up with stories, encounters, and dungeons
>Never actually been a player though, not once

>Work 50-60 hours a week, 12-15 hours additional responsibilities, still find 3-4 hours a week to prep (I'm sure I overkill prep but whatever)
>All other players claim they don't have time to DM
>I give one the 5e starter set, tell him he should run this
>A month later "still haven't had time to read any of it."
>I send everyone links to One Page Dungeon Contest, tell them to pick one to run. "Sorry DM I'm just so busy."
>Yet time is never an issue when I offer to host a game

>Everyone wants to play at least once a week, nonstop talking and excitement
>But if I can't play that week, then none of them play
>Even after I suggest one of them runs a one-shot dungeon in my absence

My players are all good friends of mine outside of D&D. I enjoy DM'ing, but I want to actually play occasionally.
How do I force my players to run a session? I've asked, given them resources, offered to help plan. But they're lazy and unmotivated to do it. I don't want to give an ultimatum like "we're not playing again until one of you DM's."

I'm thinking next session during a random encounter, slide over the monster cards to a player and tell them they are now the monster. Fight your friends. Maybe that will force them outside their comfort zone and they'll get a taste of what it's like behind the screen.

General GM advice/tips/bitching thread

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If your friends are total jackasses and don't want to GM, ever, then there's not much to do if you want to continue playing with them.

When they say i don't have time. They mean that they don't want to give any of their free time to invest any of their free time into dming.

What game/system are you GMing? Has... Has any of them even read the players sid of rulebook at all, or have you just taught them on the go? You might have a case of worthless illiterate shits entitled to having a game ran. Or they just seriously don't care about the game much at all. Idunno, foreverGM speaking here, so I dont exacty understand that mindset, but that could be it.

How do I convince them to invest some of their free time into DM'ing? I mean fuck, if they use a One Page Dungeon it'll take an hour of prep, tops. It's pure laziness.

>worthless illiterate shits entitled to having a game ran
Entitled is the key word here.

Most players have the PHB and have at least read through the general rules and character creation. The ones who don't have a physical copy use the resources online.
All of them love reading about all things D&D online.
(We play 5e)

Cry more. I've been the GM of my group since Dec 26, 1982.

If it's such a chore just stop doing it man.

I'm in the preliminary steps of sketching out a campaign, that has built from two previous campaigns I've done with this group.

3 of my 4 players have each seperately asked for something (exactly what it is gets involved both with the homebrew system we're using and the game setting) that I think is a terrible idea, essentially to try to set up a duel between two major NPC mages. I can't think of a way to do it that would simultaneously be epic and not leave them just sidelined, but I have gotten repeated requests for just that.

My condolences.

It's not that it's a chore, I enjoy it. But I put a lot of effort into the game and want to see them put forth a little to share the load.

What happened on Dec 26, 1928?

I offer my most truthful monkey skulls in exchange for an interesting story.

I don't know your players but it's a common issue that GM think they put a lot of work and the players do nothing at all.
I play and GM, and I don't work more as a GM than as a player.

>Come up with system where players can get more points on character creation in exchange for a secret contract they must fulfill. (Think a loan for better gear.)
>Ask everyone if they want to take it.
>Everyone gives a TBA.
>Try not to pester people but ask for a yes or no every three days.
>No one gives one of two possible options.
>Have to plan for any combination of answers.
>Several times.

I thought it was cool to have hidden objectives that people may or may not have but goddamn, I am so done with anything that gives the players any responsibility outside of showing up. Not to mention how non commital everyone is with that too. I love GMing but I hate party planning.

If that was really the case then his players would have enough time to run a game since they have time to play.

Maybe they just don't want to and they can't find a good way to say it.
It's not lazy players, it's unwanting players.

Got anymore of this artist? I like this approach to keeping track of gear.

Not him, but I'm curious as to how you possibly manage to do this, given that the player has to control 1 character (or at most a few supporting pseudo-characters plus a main character) and the GM builds everything else.

The only ways around I can see are

1) You play some weird system/meta-game where the players share in serious worldbuilding to about the same extent as the GM.
2) You simply slap shit together and nobody really cares if there are cracks at the seams

I mean hell, building a fairly significant dungeon boss will often take a fair amount of work, comparable to making a character, and you'll often need one of those every few sessions, far more often than most players are building characters from scratch.

It's probably as this dude says, OP. They just don't wanna do it and are being betas about it.

Some people just need to man up. I tried to get my players to run games, and some of them I feel would even do a good job with it, but instead of pussy-footing around it and acting like a bitch, they just tell me they don't want to. No harm or stress over trying to convince people it's not that hard, or trying to provide them with DMing resources or frustrated when they say they don't have time.

They just don't wanna do it, and that's fine.

I do, however, give them a thorough kick in the ass when they don't pull their weight or understand how to play their characters. It's their job to know what their class, and their spells do, not mine everytime they want to use it.

If 'Hey guys I'd like to be a player for once (even for a one shot)' isn't enough, nothing will convince your shit assed friends.

...

You can do a lot of things as a player. It's not my problem if you are passive. You can create an extensive cast of NPC for the relatives, friends and enemies of your PC, you can work on what you want to do in the world, what is your plan, you can build the map of the safehouse you want to build with the other PC, or the map of the house you want to build for yourself, you can search and learn a lot on the game you are playing, building characters and trying things to see if it's good or not.

They are tons of things you can do as a player. My players do it, I do it, and if your players only show up and sit on a chair, too bad for you. But I know a lot of players who will do that and they don't say it's work, because it's fun.

lurker here, forgive the newfag text

I've been DMing for two years now. Played a couple sessions before but never had a dedicated group until I became the DM. From my short experience, let me just say that you're not the problem; it's the drive of your players.
From the sounds of it, none of them have come to you about wanting to DM, it's you trying to get them to DM. Let me tell you now that's not how you're gonna get it.
Some players just don't have the drive, courage, or what have you to become a DM so you might be stuck as one for awhile. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's the burden of being a perma-DM.
But until they come to you about it, they're not gonna be one.

next

Last one I have from this artist

>spare magic sword

>Not to mention how non commital everyone is with that too.

This has always been a personal punch in the gut for me. I'm spending my free time when I could be doing other things to plan a game for you, give you choices, and to prepare encounters and you can't be bothered to make a decision?

> "The merchant reveals to you five swords, each a different style. He offers you a choice between these swords telling you each of their magical properties"
> "I uh, thank the merchant and I choose a sword."
> "OK which sword do you choose?"
> "It doesn't matter I just pick one."

> "OK user you get to choose which direction the arrow points."
> "It can point in any direction."
> "But what direction is that?"
> "It can point to me."
> "To you the player or you the character?"
> "Either one"

It's real fucking easy to see who wears the pants in his marriage.

So how do you suggest I convince them that DMing is fun and worth them trying out? I agree the best way to get them to do it is to make them want to. But how?

Glad I'm not the only one with this issue though.

This is why project managers say "I want X by wednesday, sounds good?"

They're giving you TBAs because you're not making them committ to a time by which, if they're not done prepping or thinking about it, they miss out.

You don't have to be mean, but always be firm, user. When they know you're serious, other people get serious too.

And NONE of that, even combined, will be even a tiny fraction of what a halfway decent GM is building, like every NPC who isn't a dependent of a PC (Lots and lots of the oppositional parties, since there is probably some goal the PCs are after that enemies are attempting to stop, and what's worse, a lot of them, tend to end up dead, requiring a constant resupply of hostile NPCs that doesn't usually go for the friends and relatives of the main characters), and just about every location, and the political structure of the world, its geology, history, etc.

I'm finally about to break the curse of forever DM
>In b4 "dobby is a free elf"

Been forever DMing for 5-6 friends for the past 4 years since I taught them all the game

None would ever give me a break even though I communicated that while I enjoy DMing I even more enjoy playing

Group is now scattered across the country due to college

Finally going to join a group where I can play

College even has a D&D club

Might also be the fact that they know they'll be shit at GMing and want you avoid disappointing you and the rest of the group with said shit GMing.
Hell, that's why I try to avoid running games whenever that conversation comes up.

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wow, If they read the player side of any D&D edition, 5e especially, then they basically have all the knowledge they need to run. Just saying.

I'm DM'ing a group of beginners. I'm a beginner myself and had to read about 3 books to get the hang out of the game (5e is my first tabletop and english isn't my first language so I had to read PHB, DMHB and the starter pack)

My friends are unwilling to read at all. They don't even learn about their own damn classes so I have to babysit them at all times. They have "a lot of fun", but are always on their phones when I'm explaining shit and I have to repeat everything all the god damn time. I have to roll for everyone and give them "hints" about what they have to do.

It's not like they don't enjoy it. They even wanted to go for 2 sessions on a weekend. But they are unwilling to work on anything.

They even want to bring a female friend of theirs (we're a mixed group 50/50 ratio), that knows jackshit about the most simple "nerd" shit so I have to explain everything, AGAIN. I suspect that the only reason they're bringing that girl to my group is to hook me up with her. I just want to play FUCK

I'm not gonna lie, I'm lazy as shit and mostly wing it yet I put aside a few hours a week to write, make maps or come up with ideas for adventures and even having a shitty day won't deter me from GMing. I often want to kill my friends.
>ugggh I'm feeling a little sick guise no session today
>1 hour later the fucker is playing videogames/streaming
>"oh I started feeling better

>Alright guys have your sheets ready for next week
>a day before the session, guy is mad he doesn't understand how to chargen
>just read the first chapter, it's like 6 pages
>I DON'T WANNA READ ALL THAT
this last one made me so angry since it's D&D 5e and the guy had made two characters before. I later found out he got a LOT of handholding and another time the GM pretty much made the sheet for him, made me really angry since I had completely NEW PLAYERS reading the thing and not having any problems instead of
>I'M AN HYPERACTIVE TWAT WHY WON'T THE SHEET MAKE ITSELF WHY DO I HAVE TO READ AND THINK?

Why not playing only with DM and making turns for dm-ing in a world where the player have a stone that send/Call them back to their home world each time some else do the dm ?

An only DM game

we'll be perfect

Yeah what it all comes down to is that some people don't want to work for their fun. Now that's not necessarily a bad thing but TTRPGs are games where creative thinking and planning are rewarded and make the game so much more fun to play and it's so dishearening as a GM to watch players make the most uncreative, cookie cutter characters and play styles. Even the laziest GM has to put in at least some work into their games but a lot of players have a really shitty attitude where they feel the relationship of how the game progresses to be entirely one sided weighted towards the DM and that their only responsibility is to to be immediately entertained. These are the players who are on their phones in between turns, don't research their classes, don't roleplay and don't like being forced to think in game and the level of non commitment just kills me.

ForeverDM here. You're looking at this the wrong way OP. You're in a unique position where you never have to BE a horrid little character. Classes, races, hit points, pah. These things are beneath us. We are omni-existent, omnipotent, omniscient. To relinquish this power is to invite frustration. Every flubbed roll, every rule your new DM screws up will leave you writhing in impotent rage, questioning whatever posessed you to give up godhood.
Rejoice, for you have been given a great gift.

Stop being That GM, and learn to fucking improvise.

>Yet time is never an issue when I offer to host a game
Stop offering. If you would prefer not to, and no one else steps forward, it's better off collapsing.
If you insist on keeping the group together, maybe play board-games in that timeslot?

Anybody have any random treasure item charts besides what's in the DMG?
Or am I the only one who finds those pretty...lackluster and unorganized?

>Be homebrewing a system and playtesting it with group in the game we're playing.
>Players know this.
>Make a certain ring too powerful, or at least too powerful for how readily available it is.
>Now, as a result, every character in the test group campaign has one, and if you were allowed to use two rings that did the same thing, they'd all have 2.
>This obviously needs to be changed. I have a few ideas on how to mechanically change it.
>Not sure how to bring it up with the play group though. I don't WANT to take away their favorite toys exactly, but on the other hand, this is wrecking my attempts to build a balanced system.

>Be homebrewing a system and playtesting it with group in the game we're playing.
>Players know this.
The point of playtesting is to find broken shit and fix it. Tell them "hey you know that thing everyone gets because it's stupid good? That's a sign it needs to get fixed for being too good."

Okay, let me amend the question. I'm about 95% sure that they will react badly to this, even if it is necessary. Any advice on containing the fallout?

Tell them that it's ruining your playtest attempts and you're toning it down. If they aren't autistic manbabies they will be fine with it.

If they're more invested in ebinly exploiting your system than listening to you, they're not worth playing with.

don't do gay shit like that, play a dumb dungeoncrawler where every player gets to GM one single encounter. After the encounter's won (or lost), the next door gets kicked down and the next player becomes the GM.

Everyone makes characters and everyone gets to be the GM

downgrade from 5e to a simple system, like simpled6

My group recently added a guy and his wife, as a longtime member left the state. We're playing pathfinder, and it's quite evident that he's a munchkin/ crunch monkey. I'm almost always DMing, but got a quick break for a few weeks. This crunch monkey showed his true colors and the previous DM and him got into a bit of arguing. So far, he hasn't done much beyond breaking down encounters mechanically and trying to track CR. The character build he presented to me was way min/maxed, and I had him change a few things. He ended up throwing the entire character out, (which I dislike, because I wanted him to play a character that he liked) and instead has opted for a core fighter. After a bit of prying, it turns out his previous group were all munchkin power gamers, and his old DM would build uber hard encounters to fuck with his players. My munchkin player ended up building crazy builds as a result. (Which explains where he gets the drive to create these crazy builds, because mechanically they are very very good.) I've never been much for sadism, and I don't really fuck over my players. He is quite paranoid about his character dying, and always acts like any damage he takes is going to one shot him. I genuinely think his roleplaying side was crushed out of him and replaced with rollplaying. I don't mind running Pathfinder, but if he's really this upset and concerned with getting killed I might have to switch to 5e. I try to follow the rules well, but I do homebrew, and I've never been much for the rules (though I make an effort to keep everything fun and fair.) I understand the usual response for trouble with a player is to stop playing with them, but I almost want to reintegrate him into normalcy. Any suggestions?

>history major
>theatre faggot
>autistic level knowledge of european warfare, politics, and economics from roman era through industrialization
>have a massive folder of pregen npc stats, names, random encounters, etc
>dead end factory job where I can think all day
>literally improvise 90% of my game's content on the spot
>players love my games
>kept three separate groups going on long term campaigns for multiple irl years
>every time a player DMs a short campaign to give me time off it's fucking horrible and I can't wait to GM again

Suffering

I have been stuck as a forever GM for a few years because no one can run more than two sessions in a row except me. I miss being a player, especially in systems that allow for a lot of customization.

Talk to him you bozo

In all honesty, there isn't really a surefire way to get them to want to try it.
You mentioned telling them that you've been getting burnt out on DMing and would love to play just a one-off as a refresher, but say that you'll be willing to reach out and help them plan out the session.

If they "don't have the time" on their own, make them have the time to read it and plan with you. I knew a player who had the same issue. For six weeks he stalled DMing, even with a module probably because he never DM'd before.

In short, be willing to reach out to your players and help them plan the session to help them ease into the seat of the DM, even if that means knowing the twists, encounters, and puzzles that're included.

I have. At the table when he interrupts or mentions rules, I say that it's going to be fine. I've talked after games and beforehand, mentioning that I'm not just going to wreck them all the time.

>You play some weird system/meta-game where the players share in serious worldbuilding to about the same extent as the GM.
I've done stuff like this, and its a lot of fun.

>Starfinder is releasing soon.
>Excited because I love scifi.
>Read the leaked PDF.
>Some of the rules are shit, but I'm still excited none the less.
>Realize that I'll probably never get to play a technician because I'm a forever DM.

Its hard being the the forever DM some days.

Not all that interesting. Got the Moldvay edition of Basic and never stopped running. Ever. It is expression, stress relief, and satisfies my creative needs. I've written 6 full-blown settings that my players beg me to publish.

>Wizard really needs to piss.

I feel you, man
>autistically put a shit ton of effort into backstory and lore for campaigns
>flesh out the world and possible routes PCs might take/consequences to unpredictable PC decisions just in case they dont do what I might expect
>most of it never comes to fruition because PCs never get super creative like I want/expect
>try playing instead of DMing so I can try the out of the box stuff I want to see players do
>the DM is usually unprepared for shit that doesnt fit into their railroading or just flat out refuses to allow unconventional methods of tackling a situation
I cant be all that upset because It's not like I can tell other DMs to put an excessive amount of effort into their campaigns "just in case" but it's just not as fun

>tfw forever player
our DM machine and "is the most experienced" so he's always been the DM even though his typical decision process is "roll on a table to determine what's in this room"

You can slowly have them develop some sort of curse the more they use the ring to re-balance things for the time being. Maybe have some super powerful villian who lost the rings that wants to get them back. Possibly a wizard who accidently made them who is worried about the power of them being to strong to allow anyone to use.

>not writing one single route and just conveniently making any decision a player makes follow your route

Your fault

Players can always tell when DMs pull this bullshit

Mine are yet to notice once. So far, they're just audibly fascinated how I have a plan for every outcome. Surely you can trick your players into the same, user!

Simple.