EDH/Commander General

>Lead the Phyrexians to Serra's Realm, where even though the natives were able to BEAT BACK AND HOLD OFF PHYREXIAN ARMIES, the oil eventually corrupted Radiant and reinforced her power-mongering attitude and collapsed the plane.

Yes, we've told you twice. Enters at 0 toughness, dies, get a counter, rez it at end of turn, dies, get another counter. And at the very least take out Cloudthresher for Spore Frog.

Only difference is that with Ashnod you'll get infinite mana while creating infinite creatures and with Phyrexian after, right?
Could this have any impact (ie. is one of the 2 methods more easily disrupted)?

>If I play Endless One or Walking Ballista (or any pure X creautres) do they hit the battlfield then go to they graveyard
yes
>are they eligible for a 0 experience reanimate to die again for a total of 2 counters?
yes
>are there any cards in the precon that definitely need to get replaced and if so, what are they?
This is to some the most "fun" part of commander: improving one's deck through trial and error/tuning it to one's meta. Scourge of Nel Toth/Champion of Stray souls are both pretty lackluster. Viscera Seer is a better Blood Bairn. You will definitely want a Fleshbag Maurader and Merciless executioner. Disciple of Bolas, Grave titan, kokusho, Phyrexian arena, Phyrexian reclamation, living death, caustic caterpillar, and spore frog are all worth considering.

Do you guys think the dragon deck is gonna be any good compared to the others? 5 colors is definitely going to be a pain in the ass.

Due to a fuck up by Sheldor you are able to apply the replacement effect, despite not seeing the card. If this were a srs bsns game then you would have a judge that would be able to check the face down cards for you and ask if he wanted to apply the replacement effect.

Since you were probably playing so casually that nobody cares about official DCI sleeve rules, I would just put the commander in a different colored sleeve to resolve this instead.

You can sacrifice the copies as you go, it doesn't really matter. Anything that could disrupt one variant could disrupt the other, and could be done before you get the mana either way.

Thanks for the help guys! Can't wait to delve (pun possibly intended?) more into this format.

Are there any crazy, "This deck will resell for $80 because of this card." Cards yet?

I've already pre-ordered all 4 (two will be birthday/Xmas Gifts), and I was planning on buying another copy of Ur-Dragon (one to keep as 5c Dragons, one to cannibalize for my Intet Dragon Tribal), but would it be worth it to just Pre-Order two sets of decks?

Oh yeah Spore Frog is an MVP for Meren. It can completely hose entire decks on it's own, and worst case scenario it builds experience really easily. Definitely a staple for Meren.

I'm making a list of potential Inalla tech, anything I'm missing?

>Have Inalla and Panharmonicon out
>Cast a Wizard with an ETB effect
>It's ETB goes on the stack twice
>Inalla's effect goes on the stack twice, pay 2
>Get two copies of the wizard
>Each gets 2 more ETB triggers of it's own
That's a potential 6 ETB triggerss from a single creature in hand.

>WotC is patching my patented "fuck your commander" combo by allowing tokens to phase out without ceasing to exist.

200% mad

Whoops forgot my link
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/wizard-stuff-4/

WotC has followed a underprint-overprint-underprint pattern with the commander product so far and C16 were the underprinted ones, so expect there to be billions of these decks around to compensate.
If you can still find Meren for near MSRP, not even a True-Name Nemesis level card will push any of these decks above $45.

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/akirithrasios-wip/

working this out, pls help

I feel like the tribal-theme of the decks is going to push the price up, at least for the dragon deck.

what exactly is this deck supposed to be doing? seems like there's really little synergy here.

Cards we can expect to see today based on the podcast
>Marsil (his ring is also mentioned, so they might print that)
>a UG Taigam from the original Khans timeline

>Wizards actually referencing The Dark

What is this timeline?

artifacts to make akiri beefy, but i don't want to be too reliant on akiri.

They're trying to make up for how badly they fucked up Ludvic last year.

the "dropping return to dominara hints" timeline

How did it work?

If I'm gonna say fuck it and just win with a combo then really why bother with control? Why not just have a deck that's a massive amount of draw, tutors, and some counters to just pull off the combo ASAP and call it a game?

The Dark is actually really well done when you set it next to the Weatherlight Saga

to prevent your buddies from getting their own combo off before you

An aura or equipment attached to a permanent phases out too if that permanent phases out, and phases back in alongside it. If a permanent attached to a token phased out this way, it would never phase back in because the token ceased to exist. Now that tokens will continue to exist while phased out, the combo is broken.

So far the only legitimately good card I have seen spoiled is teferis protection. With the new rules change, not only does it fog, protect you from combos and wog, it also prevents you being blown out by rift, merciless eviction, AND saves tokens. It will be a staple in every deck that goes wide.

Everything else is tribal only (so far, wizards deck could be fly as hell). Dragons might become valuable eventually due to dragon collectors, but nothing is crazy.

I imagine cats and vamps will sink hard if they don't have good reprints
>Inb4 vamp tutor reprint in vamp deck

Equipment attached to a permanent that phases out is "phased out indirectly," and would phase back in when the permanent it was attached to did.
Tokens that phased out would cease to exist.
Turn your opponent's commander into equipment, attach it to your token, phase your token out, and the token would never phase back in, nor would your opponent's commander. The commander rules don't have anything about getting to return your commander from phasing.

Now though tokens will phase back in, as they should, since they're never leaving the battlefield.

But would that require a control deck or just a few more control cards? Not necessarily a deck dedicated to slowing everyone down, taking them to the mat, then winning but a few answers.

edgar markox and the eminence wizard are fucking bonkers. the white dragon that destroys nonland permanents when dragons get targetted is pretty good. the axe that clones itself is pretty good. first you have 1, then you have two, then you have 4, then you have 8, 16, 32, etc. and alms collector is pretty good for keep your blue opponents at bay.

Welcome to cEDH, where you either do that thing you just said or you play stax and completely stop people from comboing out since they have no answers to your stax pieces and control.

Most combo decks run a few answers because of this which slows them down a little, and most stax decks have a combo win they drop too.

You can try out cEDH, or (more likely since you had no idea that was a thing) avoid it entirely to keep your playgroup that clearly isn't playing cEDH

I don't know how fast you think you can combo off, but you're only going to get to combo once before everyone in your group knows what your deck is all about. Then you want to slow them down from taking you out.

Makes sense, I wouldn't want a cutthroat deck that wins on early turns nor would I want one that shuts everyone down since we're not really able to have much fun playing a game we can't actually play. Control it is, then. I'll just keep slowing things down and moderating instead of rushing to a win.

The axe isn't good. Tribal stuff is tribal, I don't imagine there will be a high demand for "unpopular" tribes like cats and vamps. New wizard is honestly worse than azami at being a competitive commander, and all the new dragon commanders are worse than Scion. Dragon collectors will naturally inflate the dragon deck, but any tribe that relies on combat damage alone is honestly just not that good in EDH. I'm sure plenty of these cards will be fun, but none of these decks are going to be pushing $50+ without some serious reprints.

We still have a few cards left for the wizard deck, so maybe that one will be nuts, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Long time since I have played magic...
If I make a token copy of a card, does it count as "when this enter the battlefield"?
My guess is yes because then why this picture combo would exist...

Yes. Or for WB less mana and 1 less card you can use Restoration Angel to make infinite hasted copies of itself.

One of the rules is that "if a card exiled face down is a commander it has to be revealed" to prevent this type of shenanigan?

>the axe isn't good
it looks fun, and that's all i need baby.

>UG Taigam

Blue black; pretty sure he's in the wizards deck since tomorrow is wizards day...

>budget deck
>3 colors
>no green
>no taplands

is this possible or a bad idea?

>Taigam is Jeskai and Sultai
>both Taigams can only be played in an Esper deck

>building Scarab God before HoD came out
>secured a Lich Lord of Unx before it did
>price of the card is doubled now
>mfw

Just use basic lands and color fixing, holy shit. Run Esper, get artifacts, do that.

i'm gonna do some testing but it seems possible. probably not great after a merciless eviction but generally, yeah, i think this can work.

>Thoughts on Inalla?

This years chase deck because it clearly is pushed harder than the other three. Also people will have no imagination and we will have a repeat of the Anthrax fiasco from last year.

Get your Riptide Laboraties, Vensers and Archmages. Get them now.

>yfw the broods become khanates again but this time they're shard colors
>Ojutai goes Esper
>Silumgar goes Grixis
>Kolaghan goes Jund
>Atarka goes Naya
>Dromoka goes Bant

>everyone buys them
>rest of the wizard deck ends up being ass

>they go four color
>Ojutai goes Un-Green
>Silumgar goes Un-White
>Kolaghan goes Un-Blue
>Atarka goes Un-Black
>Dromoka goes Un-Red

Why can't WoTC ever make all the decks good? Or at the very least why can't they print the obvious chase deck more heavily to keep the price down

What needs to happen is just saying explicitly that the replacement effect cannot happen if a commander is going to be put into exile face down.

>annoying faggot that plays Mono Red Chaos at the table who loves "crazy shenanigans"
>gets mad when people kill him before turn 5 because no one wants to sit through a fucking copied Scrambleverse or Warp World
>get my infinite out, Mike + Trike, kill only him then kill my Mikaeus
>he flips his fucking shit and walks off

Don't believe everything you hear, we haven't seen many cards from the Wizard-tribal deck yet.

We still don't even know what's in the deck, for all we know the vampire deck could have ~$50 in tutors alone, and the cat deck could have sfm and swords while the dragon deck has an actually good manabase (which honestly it should have, since it's a 5 color deck with at least one card needing triple red.)

Stop overreacting, save that shit for when we at least know for sure this set is shit.

>hating fun
>playing wombo-combo fucking mikaeus
makes sense

>people that win but then don't
That's even worse. Just let us move on to the next game.

>chaos
>fun

Because all colors are not good.
Blue is the most inherently powerful deck because it's the deck that controls two of the most powerful mechanics in any card game: card advantage and the ability to just say no.
Black follows close because some of it's most powerful cards are balanced around 20lp and therefore become twice as good when you have twice the resources to spend on them, the only life that matters is the last one and paying 10 to draw your combo pieces and remove answers from your opponent's hand is easy.
Green comes next because it has been pushed brutally these past 8 years. Marketing says stupid big creatures sell, so they continue to print stupid big creatures and ways to cheat them into play as many turns before they should as possible.

The other two colors are shit in commander because of what they are.
White is the color of sideboard tech and creature quality. Neither matter much when you have 3+ opponents. And red is designed to be barely fast enough to deal 20 damage before other colors win which means it can't even go halfway through a single opponent in EDH through it's own means.

Any deck that contains white or red will be worse than any deck that doesn't. Any deck that contains blue or black will be better than any one that doesnt'. And instead of balancing this by printing better cards for white and red, they just print shitty cards for everyone and the problem subsists because shitty blue and black cards will still outperform shitty white and red cards because of the inherent mechanical composition behind each color.

>jerking yourself off with 3 cards to kill the whole table
>fun

Chaos is the exact opposite of fun. Scrambleverse is horrendous to sit through, and a copied one has taken nearly 30 minutes to resolve both. Warp World also sucks cock to have resolve and so does Thieves Auction, Goblin Game and every other card in that fucking deck.

copied, sure I'd agree
I'd probably just make a house rule to not allow copying of cards that take so long to resolve

>chaos
>""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""fun""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

So will this have much of an effect on snapcaster mage? Price wise, and playwise I suppose.

>infinite combos
>""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""fun""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

I think that last paragraph is blatantly untrue.

seriously, white has the most flexible removal, the best board wipes, weenies, enchantress, as well as token support and while all of that may not be t1 it winds up not mattering at a casual table as often. white and red are good "support colors" but they're not strong enough to hold themselves up on their own like U/B/G do.

Combos are more fun then Chaos by far. They are at least disruptable, through most Artifact, Enchantment, and creature removal. The only way to stop a shit eater dropping Warp World is a counterspell.

Yes, because it means the game is over and you can go on to the next one. The end goal of a chaos deck is everyone scooping because they have to go home. That's not fun.

2 card infinite combos aren't all that fun, I admit. But being able to assemble some janky 5 card combo that you didn't tutor for is always a good time in my book

If you have a craw wurm meta sure. Combos and powerful decks give interesting decisions, like do you Tutor for a conbo piece or a hard answer to another decks combo that you feel they are close to assembling. Do you sit back and be reactive and wait to drop it after a resource war or force an answer and recur it next turn?

>having to sit there and untangle a billion and one etb triggers all going off at once
>while the chaos player is laughing thinking everyone is having fun but everyone just wants to kill themselves to save the time
>fun

Decision making in """"""Fun""""""" Chaos decks
>do I have the mana to cast one of the many obnoxious cards in my hand
>if yes cast it
>giggle like an autist as the table groans and begins grabbing all their permanents up
>30 minutes later
>"Man sucks we could only get 2 games in user, I gotta go guys"

>why play a singleton format when I can just tutor for the same 3 cards?

Also not all tier 1 and 2 Commanders are combo. Theres a good amount of Control, Good stuff, and even occasional aggro like Ruric Thar. Ane early Ruric Thar makes life hell for Combo.

All this salt makes me want to build a Chaos deck. Who's the best commander for such a deck?

>implying this is a real problem when you're just going to combo off in 3 turns like the faggot you are anyways

>thinking combos save time
>not having that guy that makes everyone go through the combo in its entirety just to make them feel bad

If you are always tutoring the combo up you are playing bad. You need to evaluate board states. Maybe Narset is gonna be cast soon so you tutor up a Grave Pact, or the Bant players flooding the board with goodstuff and needs to be set back with a wipe before they Craterhoof win.

>implying I'm the combo player

vial smasher

Arjun. The first thing to go to chaos is your own hand.
Tana. One of the best Gruul Legends.
Wort. Conspired Scrambleverse, Vexing Shusher.
Riku. Hive Mind Copied Warp World.

>>kys pls

Why when you can just tutor for the win?

Because your opponents also have cards.

Ok combos
>2 to 3 pieces, easily explained how it ends the game like Mike+Trike, Exquisite Blood+Sanguine Bond, Blasting Station combos, Kiki Jiki combos
>ends the game in 30 seconds or less of explanation, you present the pieces and thats it
Bad combos
>Any variant of Storm, Doomsday, Lab Man
>convoluted bullshit that takes a 15 minute turn to accomplish

> Naya Atarka
My diiiiiiiiiick

You dont always have both pieces or the mana for all of them at once and if someone wins next turn and you could have tutored an answer you'll feel pretty dumb sitting there with two useless combo pieces in hand as they end the game.

Lol just tutor up combo and win, no board state evaluation, no answers your opponents might have, no disruption, just tutor and win
t. Craw Wurm afficionado

Easy to explain, but I still want you to go through all the triggers

Lol just chaos and win, no board state evaluation, no answers your opponents might have, no disruption, just chaos and win

This made me laugh more than it should have.