/btg/ BattleTech General

Not to mention the aesthetic. Both in fluff and mechs.

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Since there seem to be Cappie players here at the moment, I thought I'd ask: was the Locust the only Bug mech the CapCon was building by 3025?

They went into an autistic shitfit and conventionally conquered everyone. They didn't break out the tacticals except for fighting in the Protectorate or against the Goons. And fuck the Goons.

Death Commandos?

Isn't that a Drac?

No. They also build the Stinger.

>Put her picture into google img search.
>The keyword it showed me was "beauty".

Why couldn't people with notJapanese heritage live in notChina and vice versa?

>Why couldn't people with notJapanese heritage live in notChina and vice versa?
because it's battletech

>because it's battletech

You mean the game where for the longest time, Capellans had a Japanese sword in their emblem? Where Yen-Lo-Wang has the emblem of Japanese navy on it?

T H I C C
A O
P N

yup

>bt
>making sense

Locust and Stinger at Bergan Industries on Ares, Stinger at Earthewerks Inc. on Grand Base, and Wasp at Hellespont 'Mech Works on Sian

Just clarifying, but I thought that the Earthwerks facility on Grand Base came online during/after the 4th Succession War, and that Hellespont Mech Works on Sian had ceased manufacturing mechs until they developed the Raven.

Locust and Stinger, but not Wasp I think.

Please post more Capellan girls.

You're right about Hellspont. I know that's why I don't have the Wasp listed in my files for 3025.

Death come and do.

Her hips look shooped.

Is it weird that I think she'd look cuter in tight jeans and a too-big plaid shirt?

>Grand Base
Got a source for that to add to the list? All I have pre-3050 is Grand Base listed as a mech factory in original House Liao (not the best of sources) and it's marked as a factory world in 1st and 2nd Succession Wars (so it could have been destroyed and rebuilt in the interim, or those are referencing Hellespont's vehicle manufacturing).

>Sian
Another House Liao/1SW/2SW listee with no further detail. Again, if you have a source, the list thrives on detail.

House Liao specifically says Hellespont had all its main factories destroyed in the early Succession Wars so built a new facility on Sian to be as far from combat as possible and built only tanks like the Vedette to remain a low profile target. However, though it doesn't build mechs, it is known for mech modification and salvage restoration.

Not sure when the Grand Base mech production facility became solidly canon, but Brush Wars has Grand Base as "The site of the largest ’Mech manufacturing complexes in the
Confederation" in 3030.

Further, the First Succession War Wasp entry fucks this up by proclaiming production on Sian when it should be one of the unnamed worlds Hellespont had factories on before the Succession Wars. There is no 2nd SW entry for Hellespont.

The original source for the Wasp factory is Objective Raids, which dates it as early 50's.

Hellespont Industrials is the name of the original factory.
Hellespont Mech Works is the name of the new factory built beside it and is separated out in the original material.

Objective raids places the construction for the Hellespont Industrials factory on Sian at 2865 and then places the Mech factory at the time of the full production Raven.

Basically somebody forgot to factcheck that part of First Succession War and just went "Where do Caps make Wasp 1A's? Ok, we'll just say there."

>Not sure when the Grand Base mech production facility became solidly canon

Since the beginning. We just didn't know what was made there exactly for awhile.

>factchecking errors
colour me surprised

Ok, cool. Given the reference to flaws in the original House Liao sourcebook I wasn't sure if it had been changed/retconned/whatever later.

House Liao isn't bad really. Most of the housebooks are pretty solid outside a couple small fuckups and production numbers later relegated to relative numbers than absolute.

A lot of people get the wrong impression because they see differences between them and the 3060's Handbooks but then fail to take into account the time difference. Like the jokers who see the Jalastar-licensed Grasshopper line they built in 3061 and think it means the Suns always made Grasshoppers.

Now Objective Raids or Periphery 1st Ed production info, ho boy.

>Periphery 1st Ed production info
The level of retcons/bad info in that book is honestly super overblown. There's a red-hot three probably placeholder designs that've been retconned away and a bunch of planetary populations that were retconned *upward* by CGL, because FASAnomics weren't bad enough already, apparently

I said production info for a reason. The actual flavor text of 1609 is still the best periphery book, period. Even Objective Raids is still like 95% truth despite being relegated to secondary canon.

I would certainly hope the Cappies have Wasp production in the 3000s; the 1L is my favorite variant and I have two of the lil bastards in my Liao company.

>The actual flavor text of 1609 is still the best periphery book, period
Periphery 2e gets close, all it's minor power elaboration is suburb fluff, though admittedly it loses points on account of being so severely retconned by FM:P and HB:MPS

>They went into an autistic shitfit and conventionally conquered everyone.

Read the books you retard.

The authors can't tell them apart, maybe that's the joke?

Ok so what mech production did Liao have in the Succession Wars?

Locusts, Stingers, Wasps, UrbanMechs, Highlanders... What else?

Which Succession War? The answer changes drastically based on that, as well as on whether you want pre- or post-retcon production.

I guess on the eve of the First War, and what they had left at the end of the Third in 3025.

I remember they had Vindicators to fill all the gaps in units, and I think Warhammers or Marauders were being built on Tikonov.

You read the books. A lot of the stuff in Dawn and 3070 are pointed out to be false from the initial reports.

>New Avalon, conventionally conquered, orbital bombardment
>Luthien, conventionally assisted the Coordinator while Black Dragons did stupid shit
>Tharkad, conventional orbital support, old powerplant exploded
>Atreus, gassed the Knights and conventionally conquered
>All the MoC, ran rampent over by just two divisions

A massive amount of what they did in the early material was due to them getting absolute fleet superiority in a system and doing to the defenders what the Dracs did to the Fedsuns at Palmyra. They didn't break out the tacnukes in force outside the chaos march until they were getting rolled up by the Coalition.

>UrbanMechs, Highlanders
Haha, no. Not even with the stupid retcons.

Locust
Stinger
Raven(prototype)
Vindicator
Wolverine
Rifleman
Thunderbolt
Cataphract(prototype)
Victor

At the beginning, I think they had Thuds, Wasps, Stingers, Vindicators, Marauders, Warhammers, some Ost-'Mech (Ostroc I think?), UrbanMech, Striker, Victor, Locust, Wolverine (?) and... I'm not sure what else. At the end they were stuck with the Vindicator, Bugs, Victor, Highlander if you use the retcon, Cataphract at the tail end, and the Thud?

Cool. Now tell me about Necromo, the Taurian homeworld, the MoC capital, the Drac planet they hit with asteroids, the...

>Wolverine
Really? Huh. I didn't know about that, though I knew they had them. I suppose it makes sense since Kallon was founded in the Tikonov sector. So they'd have the Rifleman too then. How'd they get their Blackjacks? Leftovers from the SLDF? I know they don't make them.

Asteroids aren't nukes, friend.

>The MoC capital
Literally napalmed from the air.

They really never manufactured Urbies? I was so sure...
And I thought the Highlanders were retconned in with TRO 3039 or something.

>How'd they get their Blackjacks? Leftovers from the SLDF? I know they don't make them.

They have the most left for the same reason they have Urbanmechs, shuffled off to rearline duty and hardly used. They do put them in production on St. Ives in the 4th War but that line gets killed for the Phoenix Valkyrie later.

The Highlander facility is refit and restoration only, no new production like the Crab stuff in the same book.

Oh yeah, the BJ-3. That monster. Would have been nice if they could have kept it instead of the stupid Highlander retcon but... it is what it is I guess. I'm just glad I was able to remember most of what they have access to in that era off the top of my head. Couldn't very well be a CC player if I couldn't. I don't usually use the BJ-3, even with how good it is, since it's contentious, due to using Freezers and the wonkiness around that and the 3039 retcons.

>The Highlander facility is refit and restoration only
The TRO entry seems to indicate they manufacture small numbers of Highlanders.

The TRO entry specifically states they need wrecked chassis and that's part of their license from Starcorps.

It says "destroyed chassis from scratch", which is essentially building new ones.

It also says
>Both the Capellan Confederation and the Lyran Commonwealth use the Highlander in small numbers, as the production lines only churned out less than a dozen a year in either facility.

And that Hollis was custom building them.

Fewer than one mech a month makes sense too.

The way to do it is just to dump the 3039 retcons in the garbage where they belong, and then use the occasional 2750 downgrade as a hero mech that survived naturally like we know weird and nearly extinct stuff of all kinds is still all over the sphere whether it's common enough to get into a TRO or not.

Like Captain Yuri Petrov in his old King Crab in the command lance or whatever that even his men don't know what the hell it is but a whirlwind of ballistic destruction.

It's a hard limit because they need some kind of parts from the old ones.

Hollis is actual production because they make new machines, not recycle and refit old ones.

I'm still on the fence about the retcons. On one hand, I've always felt that the armies, even in the 4th SW, were too small, and adding more variety is a good thing. That and I like a lot of the 2750 machines so that's nice too. But it just feels so sloppy and people keep butting heads over it so I just tool along with the old continuity because why bother with the new shit when even CGL can't decide how things are? You're right that you can just toss in a downgrade or legacy machine here and there, and really, people don't play the game on the tabletop like it happens in the fluff anyway in that era, so why worry? If we did it "legit" it'd be an armless Shad and Urbie with a company of LRM carriers and Scorpions against a Banshee and two lances of Rommels.

You know what's funny is that armies are like 75% as big in the DA as they are in 3025? Also, it doesn't affect variety at all, just commonality and timing. It never made any sense to me because it's like trying to crowbar a Madcat into a 3025 game. There's nothing wrong with Madcats, just play a 3049 game or something instead where you can actually make the scenario work instead of cocking up everything.

Ok.

Not trying to argue with you, the retcon stuff just seems confusing. I cross-checked HB:HL and I think it says what you do pretty much.

It is a little confusing too. It says the mech factories were destroyed but that by 3067 they're producing the Catapult again. When did that start, I wonder.

>i will now redefine wmds to fit my extremely narrow niche so i can argue the wob totally did everything conventionally

OK friendo.

There are some who just have raging hate-ons about changing anything to do with the 3020-ish era but I don't think we have anyone that autistic here.

Most people just get pissy about the seemingly random assignment of shit to different factions, especially where another Unseen factory would probably make more sense instead.

No offense but using the DA as a reference point isn't very good because it's fluff from an outside source that cared even less about fact-checking and accuracy and bulldozed the story they wanted to tell through common sense. The armies being smaller then than they were in the 4th SW is pants-on-head fucktarded and even CGL has admitted they worked with what they were handed and it was not what should have been. Topps forced the issue though so here we are, I guess. I don't really have a leg to stand on, I'll admit, because the DA is still canon, but it's just one of those things I'll never be able to really let go and one reason I prefer pre-Jihad play.

>it'd be an armless Shad and Urbie with a company of LRM carriers and Scorpions against a Banshee and two lances of Rommels
That game sounds excellent. I'd play it (once).

You said nuked. This wasn't a wmd discussion. Nobody is contesting that.

>implying your Elsie overlords would give you with two full lances of brand spanking new Rommels

You'll take your poorly-assembled Quikcell Manticores and you will like it.

All this Liao-talk and 3025 stuff has me wondering, and so I have a /btg/ challenge:

Say you're a member of the Liao family, and in the early 3020s, and Max, his wife and children all perish in a dropship accident.
You're next in line and the Prefectorate chooses you to be Chancellor.

And so in 3024, in the closing days of the Third Succession War, you take your place as ruler of the Capellan Confederation.

What would you do to guide your nation back from the precipice it rests on?

How could you reform the economy, rebuild the armed forces?

Looking for serious answers. I know it'd probably just be easier to surrender to the Davions or Mariks.

When Katrina Steiner sends out her call for alliance in 3025, fucking answer her and get in on the ground floor of the Confederated Commonwealth. Even Hanse would be more than happy to cut off Mike Hasek's balls and tear the Dragon a new one instead.

Has it. Join in with the FedCom and negotiate some of your lost worlds back in favor of helping keep Marik busy while Hanse and Katrina ream the Dracs.

>lost worlds
Like Chesterton, New Avalon and Terra?

I said some, you gotta be reasonable in your expectations. Ask for too much and you either get laughed out of the negotiations or 4th Succession War again.

Hope hanse is interested in polygamy

Ease off the gas there Chancy. The clever way to do it is push hard enough to hurt Hasek while Hanse laughs all the way to Black Luthien.

Basically, you have to play it like the Taurians played their part in the Trinity Alliance. Let the other lords use some of your forces, but you use their resources and expertise to upgrade your factories and infrastructure. Then when the time for crushing Marik rolls around, you keep Davion pinned in the Spinward side of the Sphere supplying goodies and troops while you take back Andurien and Oriente from the pidgeons.

Comstar will probably tip their hand somewhere in the middle there and you let Hanse's feud with them keep his focus while you conquer elsewhere.

Best case, you become one of the new Council of Lords and put forward one of your children to marry Melissa's first and help unite everything into a true Star League. Worse case, you can negotiate with Hanse to basically become the new Lord of the Double Capellan March and secure your survival as a lesser house like the Sandovals with a direct line to the throne.

Assuming the Clans still show up on schedule, then you also get to be filthy rich merchant fuckers like the Mariks with the Blakist bleed and then get to conquering the Periphery as the last frontier.

>Start up a 2v2 game with some friends.
>Move first unit forward

>using your supercharger which is only good for like four turns on the first turn when you're not even in combat

For what purpose?

Networking

Augmented Lances become the standard military organizational unit to stretch our already paper-thin forces even further, spreading out our 'Mech numbers and shoring up weak points. The Vindicator gets some love, fixing its ails as the Vindicator II, and introducing a new variant (base model gains torso twist, variant is the St. Ives config but with an LRM5/SRM6 combo instead of the LRM10 upgrade). The Po hits the shelves earlier, and we focus on developing two variants for sale alongside; one has no turret and an AC/20, and the other has a large brace of SRM6s in place of the AC, retaining the turret. Funnel that money into refurbishing factories and getting Cataphract production online and ramped up.

Politically, we're kind of boned. Folks calling for the alliance with the Lyrans got it wrong; what do we have to offer? The best we can hope for is to court the Dracs, a la the Kapteyn Accords, but leave the Burds out of it. Funnel a ton of Po production into the DC, and take the Chargers we get and roll them into every available shop to get them converted to the 1A5. Ship a few of them back to the Dracs for a fee, and keep the rest. Offer to convert more, or send people to help them convert one of their Charger lines to make the variant if they wish. Hire some Mercs to watch the FWL border, freeing up our military to watch the Suns border. If the Dracs ask us to move, we move against the Suns in unison with them, with the understanding that if we get rekt, the Liao family can seek asylum in the Combine, and marry into the Kurita family. If we survive somehow, we take our battle-hardened troops and invade the MoC/Detroit, and offer half to the FWL if they come along. Even if they don't, the Anduriens will, because it means we're not invading them and it means if they cede from the FWL, they'll have more worlds and more clout. And if they do, we'll secure the alliance through marriage. Fuck old claims; we just need to survive at this point.

Wasn't the double already in place by then? Sortek finds out in '25.

I'd probably start the Trinity Alliance early and try to make nice with the FWL.

Cappie production was pretty fucked even before the 4th SW, I don't think there's any way for them to rise to that level unless someone trips over a hidden Hesperus level-factory that nobody's ever noticed before.

Supercharger cools off like MASC, user. You should be able to use it at least every other turn without trouble.

Katrina literally called for any of the five houses to make peace with her and bring an end to the Third Succession War. She wanted an alliance with whoever she could get. Not one but two or three or four. And Capellan/Fedsuns both fit neatly into not being historical enemies of her realm. You could even twist it back with the historical Capellan efforts at peace and more civil warfare.

There is no stopping the Fedcom juggernaut realistically. It was a comedy of errors that the Capellans survived in canon. Once you change any of that, you're looking down the barrel of being conquered. Better to join the winners when the thing is in it's crib and you have maximum negotiating power.

The Po is also a post-4th War design and has nothing to do with the timeframe being talked about.

Is the BattleTech video game going to have online rankings and, for lack of a better term, esports features?

Are you retarded, or just baiting? Why would you want that?

Suns and Cappies are mutually exclusive allies for Katrina though. They hate each other too much so neither will stay if the other is in. Realistically the Suns offer the Lyrans a shit ton more as allies, especially with the NAIS and their military capabilities.

Cappies need to look to the Purple Burds or Periphery for allies.

Why would I want online leaderboards in a competitive game? I don't know. Why would anybody ever want that?

So the answer as to whether you're retarded is yes. Got it. Thanks.

It's not meant to be competitive though.

Though I'm sure tryhard faggots will make it so.

I realize the Cappies surviving shouldn't have happened; I say that as someone that plays them in that era too. I just don't think Katrina was talking to the CC when she put out the call; just because it was a general call, and even if they got contacted directly, I don't think she wanted them. And if she did, the Suns showing up would have ended that fast.

As for the Po, it's an ICE engine and an AC/10. It was in development earlier than it was produced, and speeding that up isn't that out of bounds. We're already playing with history a bit, why not a bit more? It's not like I god-moded some additional Atlas factories or something. So I don't see your issue.

>They hate each other too much so neither will stay if the other is in.

That changes if YOU are the Chancellor, especially at the time that the lord that guards that border for the Suns is literally trying to dethrone Hanse himself. The Capellan people believe whatever the hell you tell them to.

>Vindicator II

How's this for a Clan invasion era upgrade of the concept?

HAHAHHAHAHA not him but no it doesn't. Hanse didn't promise the Confederation as a wedding gift because he just randomly started disliking them.

Not that user but within the first seven minutes of that almost hour-long video they've mentioned player rankings and how they're working hard on making multiplayer balanced and competitive.

The man had a mole in place all ready to go. If it wasn't for Justin's plot, they probably would've killed the Dracs instead.

Then HBS is just as retarded as him. Two wrongs don't make a right. I sure as shit don't trust HBS or PGI to make a "competitive" game with rankings.

Damn fine, son. 8.5/10 would mass-produce.

Let's suppose for a moment that the Mask wouldn't depose you for being such a faglord that you're willing to be butt buddies with Hanse.

Hanse still absolutely fucking HATES the Confederation, as does at least a third of the Suns.

Regardless of what you do as Chancellor, nothing short of replacing Hanse and changing the Suns' attitude to the Capellans for the past 200 years is gonna change that.

Pull the extra two DHS and give it an ER PPC.

>Hanse still absolutely fucking HATES the Confederation, as does at least a third of the Suns.

Knigga, I'm the Chancellor in 3025. So no Sword and Dagger plot, no Hanse hateboner for the Confederation.

>Sempai, my goalposts are moving on their own!
This is rich.

The double plot starts in 3015 and isn't discovered until 3025, mere months after taking over in this scenario.

There very likely isn't time to stop the plot even if the new chancellor knows about it.

Take it back to like 3020 and sure, then you can stop it.

That still isn't going to stop Hanse's hate for the Confederation. Operation Doppelganger wasn't the thing that turned his opinion out of the blue, it was just the straw that broke the camel's back.