/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

Yea, I am not sure I am tracking their end state. They have manageage to piss of the UCM so much it is hard to tell if that wasn't their intention.

Its likely they just believe themselves to be so advanced they can't even tell why they are failing so badly at manipulating them.

It's a game to all but the upper level, user.

>that one Menchit pilot who chides his familiar for wanting to turn on ammo conversation and ruin his kill count

In the PHR's defence, most of the dropfleet shenanigans blamed on them are quite possibly a hidden faction pulling black ops shit.

A few of them are. Their fleets attacking UCM ones and aiding ferals and otherwise causing the UCM probelms just fuels UCM rage.

>tfw all the aliens are either edgy rage monsters, unbelievably smug, or are pulling more fuckery than even the PHR
Being UCM is suffering.

UCM exist to get fucking pissed and kill alien and traitor shits.

Bumpage

What's on your DropCommander to do list /dcg/? Will post mine in the morning, it's going to take a while to count up

>figure out what ships to round out my fleets with using the last of my KS/starter sprues and build that shit
>assemble my chaotic pile of DZC blisters
>prime that shit
>wait for ordered airbrush to arrive in a couple weeks
>learn how to not suck at airbrushing
>paint my fleet schemes better than my previous attempts by hand
>plan and scratchbuild some Dropzone terrain before 2.0 releases
>budget for a £100 order from Hawk when the map credit comes in (hopefully around the time the 2.0 rule book drops)
>get more than one other person involved in playing either game
That last one's going to be the hardest task, I think.

Two battlecruisers left to paint/assemble and after nearly a year I'll have nothing in the painting queue. Two fleets, space stations (which are meh but whatever I'm counting them done), two sets of launch assets, ground asset tokens, all done to a moderately tolerable level since I'm bad at painting.

It seems like the best way to get the Scourge battlecruiser prows interchangeable is with pinning, which I've never done. So that's a model that'll inevitably get fucked up.

ugh fuck not ground asset tokens, I meant sector tokens. I like the idea of making ground asset tokens out of DZC models but it just doesn't seem practical for the space they'd take up around clusters.

Pinning isn't all that bad, user - obviously, a pin vice helps, if you dont already have one. Just notch a pilot hole with your knife, drill a small hole, glue a piece of paperclip into that end, and then put a small dot of paint on the end of the paper clip. Match up the two pieces as best you can, and press them against the piece of paper clip with the paint on it. Bam, you've marked the guide hole. Drill that one out, clip the paper clip to fit, and you're done. It's a quick process.

The biggest problem I've found is keeping the drill bit level and straight - drilling a hole and then realizing the paper clip is stick out at a 45 degree angle is incredibly frustrating.

Played some games this weekend... with the UCM deck finally in hand! Managed to somehow draw Superior Numbers twice, and used it to soak espionage both times from an actually more important card: In one case, atmos bombers (so that my New York slaughtered 3 enemy strike carriers!), and one double-shot laser card so that Avalon could gut an Akuma it rushed into range of in one shot.

Espionage is more important than ever with these things.

The cards are great. I've never liked the DZC ones since their effectiveness is all over the place, but they really nailed it with DFC. Combining Gunnery Masters with a St Pete is the best feeling, and Leviathan of the Void is terrifying on a big ship.

>7 Shaltari cruiser, 16 frigates, battleship and corvettes
>Two UCM starters
>About 1500p of dzc shaltari
>About 1500p of dzc scourge
>3 UCM dzc starters
>PHR dzc starter

W H Y

You better skip work and focus on painting.

Superior Numbers is a pretty damn kick as card as well. I feel like in DZ the cards were nice to haves. The decks really change the game is looks like in DF.

What does Superior Numbers do? I haven't seen any of the decks yet.

You add a squadron of 1 Rio or 3 Toulons to a selected battlegroup. They come on from the board edge and have the outlier rule so they don't fuck up formation.

Free 105 points worth of spaceship. Pretty fucking sweet.

Oh god damn, that's nasty. I love it.

And gets those Rios assembled too, I guess.

Cards are pretty good at getting across faction character from what I've seen.

archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/53468183/#q53637199
archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/53149889/#53292271

And because I'm just the most charitable fellow around, here's full lists of UCM and PHR+Scourge cards respectively. I don't think anyone has given us the hedgeheg deck.

>faction character getting across!

What do you all prefer? The Rio or the 3 Toulons?

I am kind of thinking Toulons especially if you have that sweet mass driver volley card.

But Rio is a sexy little minx that dances on sand too.

You're a saint, user.
>Nanomachine colonies
>Massed Weapon Banks
>Electromag deflectors
>Repair drone squadron

Mah god.

I dunno really, I guess it would depend on exactly what I needed at the time. Both are useful, really - having more targets for the enemy to shoot at is always good, but the Rio is an excellent distraction in and of itself.

Depends on what you need. I'd default to Toulons, especially late game. Outlier is helpful for flanking and the extra speed helps them make up for lost time. An extra big ship to help hold ground is a pretty decent proposition too, though. Early game I'd need to have a serious think about it.

Rio would actually be a better use of Mass Driver Volley if you go weapons free (and why wouldn't you), as you'd trade out one of your extra 4+ shots for a 3+ shot.

Repair drone is my favorite. Especially with PHR armor and launch asset superiority. How annoying would that shit be to double viper laser a Herc only to have it repair like it was no big deal.

Remember though- CRIPPLED SHIPS CANNOT USE THE "REGENERATE" SPECIAL RULE TO REGAIN LOST HULL POINTS!

Yeah, it's definitely a card that would need to be played early in the game (assuming you draw it, of course).

>launch asset superiority
If anything that's a weakness with repair drones. For other factions it would be a no-brainer to use that card, but PHR bombers are so expensive and valuable that

I made a rough post from work a couple weeks back, I'll go through my deck and format it properly this morning.

That sounds like on paper thinking. You don't always have a target that is worth while. Would you rather try to run the guantlet of PD from a bunch of Jakartas with intensify point defense? Or would you rather take a sure bet and potentially bring a heavy ship back from the dead. Especially when its firing DMC or Neutron missiles.

I'm not saying it isn't a great card, just that the PHR's style of launch asset superiority isn't an advantage in that context. They're all about quality over quantity of strike craft and pay a lot for each asset, but the drones don't care at all about that quality. They'd do the same work for the cheaper carriers of other factions if they weren't PHR exclusive.

I see what you are saying, what i was trying to get at is that PHR are already very likely to have max launch assets. Its all the more reason to grab more.

Since it says any number of fighter tokens from the target ship, you could swarm a ship with launches from all over the board and get some serious repair done.

Shaltari deck dump incoming

3x Advanced Picket Ships
>Play: During Cleanup Stage of Planning
>Target: one friendly Group of Tonnage L
>Effect: Ships in this group use their lower base Signature even when their shields are up this turn.

3x Warspire Nexus
>Play: During Cleanup Stage of Planning Phase
>Target: One Cluster or Station containing Shaltari Assets
>Effect: The target gains 2+ Passive CM until end of turn

2x Stealth Impel Mines
>Play: at the end of Set Strategy Deck Stage
>Target: one enemy ship
>Effect: You may turn this ship up to 45 degrees. This does not affect the ship's activation or orders this turn.

2x Orbital Disruption Field
>Play: after moving a friendly ship with an Ion Aura weapon
>Target: that ship
>Effect: This ship must go on Standard Orders and cannot fire weapons this turn. For the rest of the turn, treat the area within 3" of the ship as a Dense Debris Field for all other ships.

3x Misdirection
>Play: After Movement Stage of Ground Combat
>Target: One Cluster
>Effect: Any Friendly ground tokens in this Cluster may move to any other Sector in this Cluster freely this turn.

2x Scout Gate Expedition
>Play: When deploying any number of Ground Assets
>Target: One Voidgate
>Effect: You may deploy one token with 18" of that Voidgate instead of the usual range.

2x Navigational Mastery
>Play: On Activation of a Friendly Battlegroup
>Target: One Group in that Battlegroup
>Effect: All ships in that Group gain Vectored and +2" Thrust for this activation.

1x Concealed Gate Network
>Play: At the beginning of the Launch Phase
>Target: One Cluster or Station
>Effect: Any number of friendly Shaltari Ground Assets in the target Cluster/Station may move to a single Sector or Station within 18" of the target. They may not take part in Ground Combat or contribute to scoring this turn.

3x Foresight
>Play: Before drawing Command Cards
>Target: Your Command Deck
>Effect: Look at the top five cards of your command deck. You may put any number of them on the bottom of your deck, then return the rest to the top in any order.

2x Lives of Experience
>Play: After drawing Command Cards
>Target: Your command deck
>Effect: You may draw 3 additional Command Cards.

1x False Diplomacy
>Play: At the end of Set Strategy Deck Stage
>Target: One Opponent's Strategy Deck
>Effect: For the rest of the turn, whenever players reveal their Strategy Cards, the opponent must roll a DICE. On a 1-2, they add 5 to their Strategy Rating. On a 3+, they must reveal the next card and activate that card instead. Return the first card to the bottom of their Strategy Deck.

1x Power to the Weapons
>Play: Before firing with one Group
>Target: All ships in this Group
>Effect: All ships in the Group may fire all weapons on Standard Orders this turn, but may not raise shields this turn.

And that's it

Man, there is some serious douchebaggery in the Shaltari deck. Thanks for sharing though, it's appreciated.

...

Looks great.
But I do think, making the Dots of the propulsion system in a contrasting bright colour Like blue or even green would help to make it more visually interesting.

Dunno how I feel about that. I can see the technical skill, but it seems...I dunno. Like it's missing something, I guess.

Needs both contrast and something to define the edges of the sections better; the model all blends together. Painting the engine panels a different color and maybe some edge highlighting or something like that would do it.

This dude won best painter at the last hawk tourny

...

How are the scourge ships painted again?

Silver base coat
Purple and Green ghost tints?

I imagine they'll release a 2nd edition command deck since they'll be changing a few mechanics. Hopefully with the experience of now two separate games and a larger staff to play test, they'll fix it up. Personally, I don't like the cards being super effective. I kinda like the ones that are just enough to nudge an even fight or if they are powerful, they come at a drawback. I do appreciate how the decks play to the strengths of the armies though and don't have one to one equivalents all the time or are even straight better than other decks. Case in point, opfor training and enemy within. Opfor training adds CQB dice flat out, where as enemy within removes them from the enemy and adds them to your own. I like that, it makes you play aggressively with scourge and even their basic warriors can give exotic infantry a run for their money with that card where as with the UCM they have a more balanced all around approach where in a pinch they can get a slight boost.

Pretty much, yeah. Do the tints in a stripe pattern across the model, add a bit of detailing to the engines and exhaust ports, put something nice and bright for the eyes to make them pop.

>are even straight better than other decks
This is my main problem with current DZC cards. They're imbalanced as fuck. Situational cards are fine, but they should at least be good in their chosen situation to make up for that, otherwise they're nothing but worthless filler. If UCM was normally bad at CQB but could gain a big advantage with command cards, that would be cool and unique. But the cards aren't good enough, so UCM is just bad at CQB and has a bunch of dog shit cluttering up their deck (Heroic Sacrifice being an exception since it works well with their playstyle of running away and dropping the building).
DFC cards might be a little imbalanced too, but it's very hard to tell because all the decks are so useful and unique that I'd be happy with any of them.

...

That is kind of a core mechanics problem though. The way the game has grown for UCM, CQB is a bad call. The result is you have a lot of worthless cards. 2nd should really address some of these issues.

DF will probably have a few of those too, but hopefully it is minimal.

Even if UCM was decent in CQB, most of its cards would still be bad.
OPFOR Tactics, Soldiers of the Resistance and Partisan Strike are nice in concept but don't make enough of a difference to take over the possibility of an Espionage or Call For Extraction, No Retreat has the triple whammy of being minor, highly situational and a terrible fit for the faction, Heroic Sacrifice is literally a worse version of a generic card, and Ace In The Making only applies to fast movers (no matter the quality of FMs no card should be that specific, it's like a DFC card only affecting battlecruisers).
Intel Report is okay if niche, it helps you decide how to use your beautiful precious Espionage. For Mankind has managed to just barely claw its way to relevance based on the merits of a single unit, but I'd still much rather one of the good generic cards. I'll admit Black Project and Fighter Escort are pretty solid after their buffs though.

But that's the problem. For DFC the worst cards are still something useful that can significantly change the outcome of the game, whereas the worst DZC cards can safely be dismissed because even the potential of a decent card is far better than the certainty of terrible trash. I'm not completely against the cards not being as significant as DFC ones, but the quality needs to be more consistent and the baseline level of usefulness needs to be above where it is now.

Dave said that in DZC 2nd edition each faction will have 60 cards to build a 40 card deck out of, meaning that some cards will be highly situational but you wonxt have to include them.

NEAT

You have a valid point, though I think mine still has some merit as well.

Dave will save us though.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Seems good then, it allows for more specific cards.

Bump

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>you will never protect Jakarta-chan from enemy fire while she keeps the bombers and missiles off your back

> Formation Defense – Until their next activation, ships in this group that do not already have aegis gain aegis 3

Fuck yes I can

What do you all think will be the Gen con exclusive?

I don't think there's one specifically. The alternate warstrider and the Athens-class cruiser will be there though.

Beep bop sf here with Muh table

Muh one day to paint scourge

I-is that metallic gold?

Well painted, scourge scum. Let's fight!

...

I agree, guess I didn't really lay it out clearly, I wrote that after being up for like 36 hours straight.

DZC cards are imbalanced. Quite a few are just shit and the UCM gets the shaft the hardest, and yeah, a lot of that is from the way the game grew with new units and changes to mechanics. I'm hoping after DFC and the way they did cards for them, we'll see a far better balanced command card system that still plays to the asymmetrical balance they've got. Some ideas for cards based off of what we've seen for DFC could be things like "Call in a free FM attack run" or maybe for the UCM specifically "Call in either two squads of Legionaires in a condor and bears OR a squad of Praetorians in a Raven." I'd actually also like to see the SR system brought over, I like that and could add a lot of depth to planning your turn.

I like the blue growths.

Agreed. The blue really brings to life such a neutral color. The models are very simply painted, but the combination makes them look very complex. The growths help break up the solid beige color well. Love it!

I really enjoy the smug look on the PHR ship. The PHR shipgirl might be my least favorite but I do still enjoy the personality in the design.

Bump

Fucking gen con tomorrow. Need to see completed VTOL chopper!

They already announced what they're doimg for the DZC decks in a beasts of war video. The deck you buy will be like 56 cards or something, and then you build you're deck of the same size as the current decks are.

They wanted cards that can play off of certain army bulds and synergies without making those useless draws for someone not running that kind of list.

He still has a point though. Lots of those cards need a version 2.0.

for sure, which cards are we thinking, I think alot of the CQB cards for any faction are too minor of a boost and situational for the most part, you cant really be certain you will engage in a CQB during a turn, and having to hang onto a card for several turns in the hopes you can swing that CQB. I feel like the UCM Could use some more cards that convey the fact that they have superior numbers on the ground and the air in most situations.

Many of the current cards are 'too situational and too weak'. Best example: Crazy pilot. LZs are already so generous, I've literally never seen this used in a necessary way in over 50 games of DZC.

DFC has the right idea. There's a lot of moderate power but very applicable cards. Simple bonuses to hit. Bonuses to your sig, etc. And a few very strong 'turn shifter' abilities.

In DZC, think of how many useless 'add a meaningless number of die to CQC' attack type cards there are. The vital ones that do out of turn activations are a tiny minority of the deck. Weapon, Drive and Countermeasures hacks are the only worthwhile cards in the entire PHR deck for example, the rest being generic crap.

Thats why I was advocating a bigger change to infantry. There should be situations where they are actual opportunities to use all their stats. Right now CQB and objective searching is pretty much it.

Some of them can use their guns while searching for objectives, or are harder to kill while searching for objectives.

Pre-nerf Hazard Suits were really strange and interesting because sometimes they spent a turn not searching for objectives but instead shooting people. Some stuff more like that would be intriguing.

Simply put, infantry doesn't behave like Infantry. Why would 40 people cram into a building? They should be dispersed, moving quickly from place to place. Crossing a street shouldn't take two turns in this game.

Infantry should relocate between adjacent buildings easily, and APCs should be much faster in how they drop off or pick up troops. Infantry should also be able to fight armor that gets too close with high effectiveness, and be very hard to kill except when machine gunned in the open.

infantry should probably be faster, or at least harder to hit solidly with single shot AT weapons. I wonder if the rules are too strict with getting in and out of vehicles

Another thing I wonder if may certain weapon types should ignore embark/disembark restrictions on shooting, like say Flame weapons, and weapons under a certain strength like machine guns, maybe a speical tag for em like assault, this weapon can be fired even if a unit will embark or disembark, but gets a +2 accuracy penalty or something.

>Crossing a street shouldn't take two turns in this game.
I remember someone suggesting that infantry be able to move at double speed if they performed no other actions in a turn. Could be a decent idea to give them a speed boost without making them inexplicably as fast as vehicles, and also do more to distinguish the different movement values (Hazard Suits would be as effectively immobile as ever, while Sirens and Razorworms could move between buildings more easily)

>APCs should be much faster in how they drop off or pick up troops
I like the idea of APCs being able to drop their cargo after a full move, it would help distinguish them from dropships which need to spend more time slowing down and landing. That seems to be a popular one, I wouldn't be surprised if it made an appearance in 2.0

>Infantry should also be able to fight armor that gets too close with high effectiveness
Eh, I feel like that should depend on the unit. But if you're talking about basic general purpose troops, Warriors and Resistance Fighters can already fuck up armour that gets too close with E11 and a one-shot E13 respectively. Braves are lower power but their long range makes up for it, Legionnaires could potentially make 9" E9 work if they were cheaper, and Immortals... Yeah, you've got a point with Immortals. Longreach teams can make E7 sniper rifles work (though why they don't have strafe I have no idea), but in the normal squads they're just rather ineffective.

>be very hard to kill except when machine gunned in the open
That's something I don't agree with so much, but changing the effects of different weapons towards infantry is probably a good idea. I think AT weapons are in a decent place, as they can only do 2DP per shot and don't have many of those, with cover also making them 3+ to both hit and damage. Area weapons are rather excessive though with their 2d6 hits on garrisons, and demo is a whole other can of worms.

...

So some rules hints posted.

Dropships aren't attachrd to battleground anymore.

Vehciles can shoot after disembarking at a +2 accuracy penalty(AA weapons can't shoot at aircraft, though).

Some changes coming to CQB and how infantry in buildings work as well.

Link to info

hawkwargames.com/blogs/articles/gen-con-sneak-peek-dropzone-commander-2nd-edition

I dig em. I'm hoping that +2 applies to infantry as well so I can redeploy them quickly and not lose them for effectively half the game if I don't drop them in a decent spot to begin with.

For the lazy. Keep in mind none of this shit is finalised

>Open Transports
>Previously squads were only able to be carried by transports bought for them whilst building your army. This led to squads unable to be redeployed if their transport was shot down. Transports now operate flexibly and are able to activate and carry squads in a different battlegroup from their previous activation, provided they have not already activated and have the capacity to carry that squad.

>Disembarking and Shooting
>Vehicles may now fire their weapons after disembarking from a transport with a +2 penalty to their accuracy. This encourages redeployment of squads during the game as they no longer lose out on a full turn of shooting. Certain weapons may not fire after disembarking such as AA weapons at aircraft.

>Objectives
>All squads in a building may search for an objective whether they are the occupier or not, although the occupier receives a bonus to their roll. Nearby APCs also provide a bonus to the squad's roll.

CQB
>Certain factors now affect a squad's effectiveness in CQB, receiving more dice for being the occupier or losing dice for searching or shooting that turn. In addition, CQB dice may be distributed more freely to opposing squads of your choice.

>Collateral Damage
>The rolls to resolve Falling Masonry, now named Collateral Damage, have been simplified and reduced to Energy 5. In addition, buildings can no longer be dealt additional damage by weapons without the Demolisher keyword.

Firing after deployment is a big deal, they seem dedicated to making dropships central to everything which is a good thing imo.
Demo change is vague. It could mean that area weapons no longer double down, which opens up some future options for Hawk I guess. Or it could mean that non-demolisher weapons can't crit against buildings, which totally changes the game and gives demo a well needed smack with the nerf bat. E5 masonry is nice for Immortals.
Extra APC utility is cool.

>Vehciles can shoot after disembarking at a +2 accuracy penalty(AA weapons can't shoot at aircraft, though).

Rapid Assault Ares HERE WE GO

Well so far it looks like it's only for vehicles.

I feel like they're trying to make dropships more what they were intended to be the first time around. Personally I found dropships were useful for getting units near the objectives and then just peace out and either run away or get shot down. Except maybe gates because of their rules.

Being able to shoot after disembarking will be huge. It'll really open up some opportunities.

Rapid assault Broadsword fun-times

>Rapid assault Broadsword fun-times
Eh, it's more about the fact that the Ares' lock can never be anything worse than 3+, meaning they're at full combat effectiveness when hotdropped.