STARFINDER

1. They changed nothing about the game engine itself, just the races, classes, spells, and equipment.

2. You can try. Paizo have never given a shit about game balance and they're not going to start now.

3. Fear of change is irrational. The time you spend fixing this game could be spent learning a better game for an overall better experience.

Androids

starfinderwiki.com/sf/Android

I really wanna just play a big guy with a minigun desu

Humans

starfinderwiki.com/sf/Human

The kasatha

starfinderwiki.com/sf/Kasatha

The lashunta

starfinderwiki.com/sf/Lashunta

Can Veeky Forums admit that we don't hate Paizo anymore? Starfinder is seriously cool.

The shirren

starfinderwiki.com/sf/Shirren

The Vesk

starfinderwiki.com/sf/Vesk

>Also, will I have to become dependant on this system because I've invested so much time into it that at this point It's easier for me to run this system well than it would be for me to find a more balanced system and learn it?
That's the plan. For Paizo, at least.
And it's only "easier" in that by continuing to use the system, you don't have to confront yourself over the Sunk Cost Fallacy, allowing you to remain in your state of twistedly work-intensive laziness.

How do these guys differ from the lizardmen who already exist in Golarion?

So, you've not read or followed anything about the game yourself then?

Reworked math between PC and monsters instead of being on the roughly same level, the big effect here is a mind controlled PC isnt a dire threat to the rest of the party and if you give the bbeg class levels they will have higher ac but lower damage, ie, they might last a round or two longer.

Reworked action economy, most classes only get two attacks per round at most, you can do it from level 1 but all attacks are at -4. Some front liner classes can get up to three attacks per round. Pet classes only get three actions worth per round instead of double turns.

Damn near every PC has good will saves.

4+ skills for everyone. New point buy makes having positive int easy to afford.

The operative is a damned sexy and functional take on a rogue.

Removing the 7, 8 and 9th level spells coupled with tech items means that casters dont flat our dominate gameplay past level 5.

Because them come from planet veskarium

It's not.
It's gonna be another trainwreck.
Paizo is at the point where they don't need to learn from their mistakes, people will still buy their stuff for no reason other than it being a -finder game.

Ask for an information, I will try and splice up the information. The system is tight and actually seems like a ton of fun, especially Themes (

>Paizo is at the point where they don't need to learn from their mistakes, people will still buy their stuff for no reason other than it being a -finder game.
In fact, if Paizo learned from their mistakes, people would lose their shit about the system not being what they're used to.

If you think those are significant changes, you're failing to see Pathfinder outside the context of itself.

System isn't even out yet and y'all are shitting on it because of paizo.

Why even join this thread?

Oh, and here's something that might get people excited.

Weapons no longer rely on enchantment to be functional in the late-game. Instead, you can find better models of existing weapons, or you can simply upgrade an existing weapon to be a better model. For example, a Tactical Magnetar Rifle does 2d8 damage out to 80 feet, but a Paragon Magnetar Rifle does 8d8.

To Shit on a new thing made by Paizo. What about this isn't clear to you?

For a given value of "new".

Veeky Forums refuses to even entertain the diea of having fun yet again. News at 11.

>Maybe Ubisoft will make a good game this time
>Maybe EA won't be greedy this time
>Maybe Michael Bay won't use an african nations worth of explosives in a shitty movie this time
>Maybe that featureless white van really is giving out candy and puppies

There's being optimistic but that has a limit. Starfinder is going to be shit but everyone's going to play it because we're all fucking desperate for games and everyone else is going to be playing this.

Hey, OP. I'm interested in playing a game. I was thinking of running the starting adventure modules for this in my own group but I don't wanna be forever GM.

You got a discord or Skype?

That's a girl.

The very idea of gear progression shouldn't even be a thing in this kind of game. A top-quality gun does not hit four times harder than a cheap gun of the same general model. The differences are much smaller than that.

Starfinder's math is being ripped apart as shit in the Paizo forums and over in /pgg/pfg/.

>I really wanna just play a big guy with a minigun desu

Completely supported in the mechanics, miniguns are known as X-Gen guns and are among the hardest hitting heavy weapons in the game.

>Company known for its inability to learn or change comes out with another product.
>Everything they've shown reinforces that nothing has been learned or changed from their previous shitshow.

>Faggots STILL defend it to the death

>A top-quality gun does not hit four times harder than a cheap gun of the same general model. The differences are much smaller than that.

I thought one of the most time-honored tropes of science-fiction is some technology simply being better than others, and in the case of Starfinder this means better guns, better armor and better starships.

It's a perfectly playable system on top of a legitimately interesting setting. Just because you are obsessed with balance in a cooperative game doesn't mean that you need to bitch and moan about it online.

Yea was looking at doing the same, discord is Derek#6911, pic is a smiling guy in a tux

>It's perfectly fine anyone that dislikes it is an autist!

Wow the memes are real

X-Gens aren't miniguns, these are miniguns.

If you don't want to be a shirran there is something wrong with you

It's understandable because they kept their holy cows, such as bloating HP. They're building on a broken foundation.

A smooth bore breach loading long arm using a weak propellant might be dirt cheap and easy to make but wont be nearly as effective as something using top of the line alloys to withstand ridiculiusly high impulses of the best chemical propellent science can make.

A cheap laser from one of the earliest generation of laser weapons is easy to churn out of parts now commonly available in commercial products. A high end military laser rifle is far more difficult to produce even if some of that difficulty is regulations on specific parts. But even that military laser doesnt compare with the cutting edge that a megacorp is just now producing in the hopes to get the military to buy into it.

Dont think of it as "taurus 9mm, glock 9mm, kimber 9mm" some of these weapons have been in production for generations already and there are signficant differences in their performance.

Misses the point that weapons of all tech levels were designed to be deadly against people. You won't be able to eat 9mm bullets just because someone came up with railguns. A primitive weapon should be able to kill you, always, unless you're specifically armored against it (which is not really an assumption in the game).
The fundamental problem is the illogical AC-as-avoidance, HP-as-tanking level progression that hasn't been dropped. Instead of an immersive world, you get MMO unplugged.

Speaking of HP, here's how it's being handled.

By the way, Health is the representation of serious physical wounds, ailments, injuries and the like. Stamina, something that is far easier to "heal" is merely a representation of your character's "luck" and "energy." Your Stamina is emptied first before you start hitting Health, though some weapons and spells target Health directly.

Sounds kinda what I always imagined hp to be, a "luck meter" each person had and it ran out at 1 hp, because it made no sense for my PC to get shot, stabbed, bashed, beaten, and magicked to still be fine

>Misses the point that weapons of all tech levels were designed to be deadly against people

Except it's not missing the point because a shitty basic bitch hunting rifle is still plenty deadly, just not against a Vesk supersoldier decked out in Power Armor. To crack that shell, you're going to need a Seeker Rifle.

Can they be hacked and turned into sexbots, while remaining conscious but unable to control themselves, like in Eclipse Phase?

But user that's rape

What the fuck does this even mean?

Source?

>Can they be hacked and turned into sexbots

Androids count as constructs for the purposes of effects and abilities, so... Yes.

In fact, in some parts of the Pact Worlds (and beyond, such as the Azlanti Star Empire), Androids are seen as little more than slave stock, if not particularly intelligent machines and thus "things" more than "people." There is a very real theme in the setting about Android Liberation and Slavery, and the exploitation of a people that are built, rather than born.

That poop games like
DUMPS
POOPRUN
SHITTING PHASE
40CRAP ARSEPG

Are about to be fucking GENOCIDED forever!!!

They picked a pretty dumb angle for androids.

Think about it. Androids are already a thing in Pathfinder. This means that android-kind has been propagating itself in this universe for thousands of years. It would be more thematic for androids to be the ones in power and humans who are slave to their material comforts provided by technology. Humans are easy to oppress because they don't like to work hard and they don't have the same basic innate intelligence as androids - in general they'll believe whatever you teach them, even if it's a contradiction.

>good games getting pushed out by 3.5-based cancer
It's not the early 2000s anymore faggot.

yes and then all of these poor man's shit RPG retards will be kicked again thank fucking GOD.

I still have no idea what is trying to be said here

It's 17 an nazis are getting btfo as non d20 gods are kiddo :)

It's bait. Don't worry about it.

>In fact, if Paizo learned from their mistakes, people would lose their shit about the system not being what they're used to.

Explain.

>Androids are already a thing in Pathfinder. This means that android-kind has been propagating itself in this universe for thousands of years.

Androids are only found in one isolated location in Numeria, and are sporadically produced by malfunctioning colony ship debris and exploration vessels. The number of "new" Androids being "born" in Golarion every year is probably equal to the number of Gold Dragons being hatched. They were never a major thing and are at most a regional curiosity.

The reason Androids are so much more prone to enslavement is due to their aforementioned vulnerability to things that would harm a machine (such as viruses,) their inability to process emotions (anger and melancholy as much as joy or contentment) and the fact they're built in factories.

>non d20 gods
>gods
Thank you for telling us what we already know

Kinda seemed like they did though, casters don't look as op, everything seems a bit more balanced. But I'll wait till it actually comes out to see

If the machanics are similar to pathfinder, it's probably not going to be my type of game.

RecklessArts

Paizo's place in the market is entirely dependent on courting 3.5 grognards that were burned by 4th edition. It's also why if there's ever a Pathfinder 2nd, it wont fix any of the serious issues of the system.

If they have no feelings I see no reason why they should have rights. Servitude dpes not make them sad any more than freedom would make them happy.

>By the way, Health is the representation of serious physical wounds, ailments, injuries and the like.

Then why does it bloat so quickly?

non D&D games are poopycraps.
So they're btfo like you dumb nazi.

To be fair, they do address some noteworthy problems of the game. They just don't address the underlying issue that is the mechanical underpinnings of the system being rancid vomit.

>If they have no feelings I see no reason why they should have rights.
What an atrocious ethical metric.

Not him, but it seems to be utilitarian. If they can't suffer, why should we be concerned about them?

Utilitarianism it's worth noting has some holes you could fly a bus though, but so do deontological or virtue ethics systems.

That's the thing, they CAN suffer as seen by how they actually do feel emotions, they're just not good at understanding or processing them. More importantly, Androids being generally emotionless is much the reason why there are still people using them as slaves, or at least see them as inferior to biologicals.

Ethics are codified rules based on empathy. Empathy is sharing in someone else's emotions. Emotionless beings are invalid targets of empathy and thus are non-factors in any questions of ethics, except to the extent that they affect the lives of emotional beings, as in the case of a chair belonging to a human.

Robots don't have rights

I'm not a huge buff for pathfinder lore, I came into this thread out of vague curiosity about what kind of a garbage fire this game was going to be, just as a note.

But it sounds like the androids are autistic, or have something akin to ASPD. In which by even a utilitarian standard, it's wrong to be awful to them.

Wrong. Ethics can just as easily be rooted in personal standards, and focus more on your own self-image than any outward factor. Taking advantage of the androids could easily be wrong simply because it's an expression of a weaker nature in yourself.

Friendly reminder that you can be any of the original fantasy races if you want. So space dwarves is an option

Acting in accordance with nothing more than your own self-image is nothing more than taste and does not deserve to be called ethics. Because it has no connection whatsoever to other people and receives no corrective feedback from them, it could just as easily involve hurting others as helping them.

I like how Elves have become paranoid mask-wearing doomsday preppers.

>games like GURPS, Shadowrun, Eclipse Phase, and the Warhammer 40k RPGs are going to lose their entire player base because of Starfinder

I think that's what they're trying to communicate. I also feel like they might be trying to toss in some KEK/POO/PEE/TRIPS meme-magic or something.

Everyone will just play a fucking space kitsune.

I plan to!

Nope, that's just terminal state D&D-brain rot.

Collect tastes are no more inherently valid than individual tastes, you don't get to decide what can be called ethics.

And an ethical system can only really have connection to other people through yourself, since you can only ever perceive through yourself; all ethical systems are self-centered.

Yes and? Several ethical systems have made it acceptable to hurt others under certain circumstances?

Tell me why the ability to suffer deserves to be elevated to our most important criterion.

Is it anything better than "because we'd suffer in a society that didn't"? A self-serving disability, the avoidance of which is elevated to our guiding principle? Wouldn't it be the greatest good then to remove the ability to suffer? And where does that leave sapience?

Not at my fucking table. In the far future after the kitsune plague any and all sightings of the feline humanoids are to be immediately reported to the authorities.

Yiff in hell

I aint gonna tell you jack because I think utilitarianism is bloody stupid. I was just explaining the basic reasoning.

My morality is strictly egoistic, and is concerned only with myself.

>kitsune
>feline

What?

That's not morality; that's amorality.

Cat/fox same thing

>any and all sightings of the feline humanoids are to be immediately reported to the authorities

Catfolk are canon in Starfinder, they're one of the races subjugated by the Vesk (the lizard people)

The old lizardmen weren't ripping off Krogans enough.

Not wanting to hurt people because my own sense of empathy makes that an undesirable choice is amoral? What an awful world you live in.

Speaking of ripoffs...

I haven't read the write up, but assuming it's not totally blatant, I doubt they're doing anything that the Krogan weren't themselves ripping off.