Kamigakari Thread

The way i saw it was that these were two things that were under the same umbrella, for sure, but were vastly different in practice. Each style's two types had abilities that were vastly different from each other.

For example, two swordsman learn the same general style. In other words, Arc Slayer. But one chooses to focus on a defensive style, and the other offensive, B and A respectively. With how vastly different the habits and practice would be for those different types of fighting, even if the groundwork is the same, you wouldn't be able to utilize techniques from the other side because you simply haven't learned them.

I guess the long and short of what i mean is that taking a style and type is tantamount to "Training" in a specific fighting method. If you look at it like that, it would be outright odd for such a specialization to be so easy to just switch from. So while the groundwork is the same, its hard to say they are the same thing when used.

Yeah, it does make sense when you put it like that. I think I was coming at it from a purely mechanical examination, whereas looking at it from what Styles actually represent, yeah, that works!

Well, when you are reading so far into the purely mechanical part as much as you have, i can see why you'd take that stance.

Side effect of being the translator, i guess?

On the bright side, its great that we're getting so much stuff cleared up. Hopefully the game runs much smoother if you don't need to worry about making an on the fly decision about something small like this.

hmmm. Should i give larger aragami an ability to "Activate" when they reach a certain damage threshold? In the games, most of the bigger ones can activate and get stronger.

I dunno if that would be overkill or not, though

Well, i'll look into aragami more specifically and tinker with the idea. I know boss and aramitama already have talents that sort of act like that, but this is something most aragami can do and making everything a boss or aramitama would be pretty overkill.

On a similar note, is anyone else amking any interesting mononoke?

I'm sorry, is that a robot gun maid? Because I think that's my fetish.

So this is my first time hearing about Kamigakari. Can anyone give me examples of how it plays and what the rules are like?

Rules question: I think this might just be a mis-translation, but in the Acquire Talents section of character creation, it says "acquire any two Racial Talents from those among the PC’s selected [Race]......and then acquire any two Talents not already acquired, and are
not marked with any of ※●◎."
I assume this doesn't allow me to start with ● racial talents, right? RAW it sounds like I should but that seems a bit silly, particularly since the next paragraph starts with "Talents marked with ● cannot be acquired until the PC is [World Influence LV: 3] or higher".

On GMing: How complex of combat maps do you guys feel is sufficient? Do square rooms work, or does it need to have a significant number of obstacles to make the combat feel interesting?

"Talents marked with ● cannot be acquired until the PC is [World Influence LV: 3] or higher, and
Talents marked with ◎ cannot be acquired unless they come from the PC’s [Main] [Style], and also until the PC is [World Influence LV: 3] or higher." p 79, under Talents.

Yeah that's what I figured. It's just weird that the paragraph immediately before that specifies that only for the style talents, but omits it for the racial talents. Might just be a translation or editing slip.

You need to fulfill the requirements to acquire talents was what I tried to say. So you can't get level three talents at level one.

That is indeed a robot gun maid, and that is something you can do in this game.

I can give you a basic rundown of how the game works, but i don't know what you mean by "What the rules are like". Rules are rules, mang.

Either way, Kamigakari can be summed up in two phases that the game switches between. Social/investigative, and Combat. The two are vastly different.

In the social investigative portion, your main talents become limited, but you instead use maneuvers to do most things. Swimming climbing, trying to convince people, trying to learn information about something, out of combat its all handled by maneuvers.

Combat works like most games do. Get a grid, put people on it, and they fight. The unique portions to this game are the Spirit pool and Influence systems. Spirit pool is a set of 4 or more dice that you roll at the start of the session, the start of each "Scene" out of combat, and the start of each round in combat. These dice either fuel your abilities, or can be used to alter the rolls you make to make sure they hit.

The game is very clear about its want for you to fluff things as you want, so even though the same talents may be used, it doesn't get samey very quickly because how one person wants to do something differs wildly from the next.

TL;DR Kamigakari is an anime as fuck system with high power shenanigans that can handle a lot of scenarios. If you actually follow the rules for the Social portions, they can get fairly interesting as well.

Rules are anime as fuck

Pretty much this.

>but i don't know what you mean by "What the rules are like". Rules are rules, mang.
Because as part of being a game, the rules are basically what make or break a game, and also wind up directing the narrative and how the game flows. It's honestly the most important aspect of any TRPG.

For instance
>Combat works like most games do. Get a grid, put people on it, and they fight.
If that's your stance on the game, why would I not just stick to say D&D or something instead of learning a whole new ruleset?

Saying something like "Dude whatever bro who cares about rules" is a huge red flag to avoid a game. You're being pretty nice about it though, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just leave this as constructive criticism. But I will state you didn't tell me much about how the game really operates.

What is that even supposed to mean?

>But I will state you didn't tell me much about how the game really operates.
Finally, someone who understands me!
I have already given up on asking these kinds of questions.

Its fairly hard to encompass an entire systems worth of rules, nuances, and quirks into just 2000 characters.

So far as the social goes, its interesting. The DM rotates who is the "Lead player" in a "Scene", and other players that want to be involved in a scene make an "Appearance check". If they fail, they don't show up. Generally speaking, these scenes serve to introduce characters, plot points, or otherwise motivate or paint a picture for the players of whats going on. By the end, the group should be together, and they will fight the big bad. Its fairly episodic like that. Its also used as time to set up a mystery or feed clues to the player, so that should be kept in mind. The majority of the time, your players are attempting to discover the reason X is happening, and put a stop to it. If you've ever heard of touhou, its a lot like that. With less beating up of random people.

So far as combat goes, its very fluid and dynamic due to the aforementioned Spirit pool and influence systems. While basic attacking and movement are fairly generic, rightly so there's no need to overdo something so basic, how you use your abilities can wildly differ from a lot of other games. Other than the spirit pool and influence systems, there are also "Engagements" which are any contiguous group of people with sides touching. Not corners, sides. If you touch an enemies side on the grid, or vice versa, you can "Declare an engagement" and force that person to stop moving.

All that said, its easier to just read the book. It even comes with manga illustrations to show what it means. I'm sorry i'm terrible at explaining this, but its not that hard a book to root through. Its very neat and cleanly spaced. The entire first portion, The "World section", is fluff, even. No matter how much i sit here and try to explain it, the book will always do it better. On top of that, i even made a quick rules guide in the homebrewanon pastebin, so people could read that.

Actually, reading it now i didn't really put in a guide for how scenes or appearances work, but those are fairly self explanatory.

Choose a guy to be in a "Scene", other people roll to see if they show up, and from there the scene plays like normal RP, with the use of talents and maneuvers to achieve some sort of goal. Its not terribly hard to understand.

>Its fairly hard to encompass an entire systems worth of rules, nuances, and quirks into just 2000 characters.
It's fairly easy actually, given a good system and a bit of familiarity. The point of a summary is to summarize, i.e. identify key points and commonalities and succinctly express that wealth of nuances and quirks through a certain level of abstraction in lieu of listing every single element.

If you cannot do that, it's a sign that either you do not know the system well enough or the system has no recognizable design principles.

This to start with.

>So far as the social goes, its interesting.[...]
Oh, is this a Japanese made game? This actually sounds pretty typical of Japanese made TRPGs. Pretty much any FEAR made game uses this thing, like Double Cross and Alshard.

The rest of your description is kinda bad to be quite honest for the reasons the above user mentioned. Thank you for trying though.

>Oh, is this a Japanese made game? This actually sounds pretty typical of Japanese made TRPGs. Pretty much any FEAR made game uses this thing, like Double Cross and Alshard.
Yeah, "Appearance Checks" are something of a red flag. The only system I've seen do those well is Tokyo Nova, where they serve to limit the heat you can be packing and still get into places and where the basic resolution system makes them something to be planned around, rather than something that just randomly dicks players over.

In Kamigakari, they (like any other kind of check) serve the purpose of letting you Influence a newly rolled die into your Spirit Pool if you wish, potentially letting you head into the next scene with easier access to your abilities.

Conversely, if you can't beat the difficulty, you might have to sacrifice a good die from your Spirit Pool and be at a disadvantage thereafter.

A forced gamble still qualifies as "randomly dicking over players". If you could forgo the check when you're happy with your Spirit Pool, it would be a different matter.
Also, unlike Tokyo Nova's, this Appearance Check doesn't seem to serve any narrative purpose.

Then again, we're kinda getting off course here, because what we want is a good summary, not nitpicking details.

To be fair, The last boss will always be fought by the full party. you automatically "Appear".

Its just a way of saying "Your party isn't always in the same place at the same time, and you may need to plan around that". There are also talents and such that give you bonus's to the check and one or two that let you automatically succeed on it.

Unless you go full support and have no sort of NPC help, you'd be fine

The third option is that i'm utterly shit at explaining things. Thats also a possibility.

I've always been a proponent of just reading the book instead of trying to get some slipshod half explanation from a random user.

>The third option is that i'm utterly shit at explaining things. Thats also a possibility.
Then don't speak. Speaking and raising red flags only damage the reputation of the work you're trying to get others into. I mean, really, I'm just being vocal and honest. Consider how many people have clicked into this thread out of curiosity, saw your red flags, and left without fully understanding the situation.

>I've always been a proponent of just reading the book instead of trying to get some slipshod half explanation from a random user.
The anons on here who are great at explaining things are concise, to the point, and tell you what you need to know with no bullshit. I mean, "just reading the book" is asking for a large investment of my time I could use to simply continue playing my own game of choice.

I don't know what people want to hear. I see a question, try to answer it, and then get this. Every type of explanation i've tried has been met with "But that doesn't explain the system". I've tried explaining how the game flows, how the game works, what its like.

Its fast-paced, its anime as fuck, its got a fluid combat system with a good deal of depth to it, the social portion is mostly freeform with maneuvers and checks to help things along. Its quirky and fun and dumb and anime. Its open and encourages refluffing things within the bounds of common sense. Its good for a variety of types of campaigns, from high power anime battles to spoopy mysteries if you have the know how to pull it off. Its particularly adept at emulating other series', though its partial to anime hi-jinks.

Thats the most concisely i can put it. If that isn't what people want to hear, i dunno what is.

To be honest, you haven't commented on a single thing other-user has been saying about the game, just been quick to jump on the "red flags" as you perceive them and discuss those. I may be wrong, but it sort of gives off a vibe that you already know the game and hate it and want an opportunity to poke at its flaws, rather than to actually discuss the game itself.

You've certainly been nothing but condescending to who is genuinely trying to help and enthusiastically push the game. If you're actually here out of interest for the game and what he's doing isn't selling it for you, perhaps you could ask an explicit question to help communicate what it is, exactly, you're looking for, rather than telling him not to speak?

>its anime as fuck
>Its quirky and fun and dumb and anime
>anime battles
>anime hi-jinks
Again, what is that even supposed to mean?

Ever seen naruto? one piece? ghost in the shell? cowboy bebop? trigun? Rurouni kenshin? Fate/Anything? literally any anime with a battle in it somewhere?

thats what it means. High paced high power hi jinks that may or may not follow the rules of reality.

Over the top, rediculous, and flashy, and pretty cool.

It's code word for action flick shenanigans.

And if you can't understand that, you're on the wrong board.

I'm just trying to help you give better feedback to support the things you like. Here's an example:
"D&D is a generic fantasy system that operates on a d20 basis. You roll a d20, and add modifiers based on what skills you picked and what weapons you specialized in to hit a difficulty class. If you roll that DC or higher, you succeed on the action. Everything is tied to this mechanic, from doing battle, to rolling skills, to saving throws to avoid negative affects passively. It's also class based,[...]"
I could go on, but word count. But it captures the core mechanics succinctly.

>To be honest, you haven't commented on a single thing other-user has been saying about the game[...]
That is some embarrassing projection on your behalf, and it really honestly doesn't need explaining, but if you want to be assured that my "condescending" tone (lol) is deserved, here's the red flag, as fully stated, by other user. To dumb it down even further for you; The inability to explain why something is good is a great indicator that the person who likes it is shallow of mind, of game design, and of complexity. It marks someone as unable to grasp the deeper meaning of mechanics or what makes something good, and most likely relatively low standards. To keep in line with food analogies Veeky Forums loves so much: I wouldn't trust someone's opinion about a 5 star restaurant if I found out that they ate uncooked ramen cakes plain and defended that it was an alright way to eat.

Therefore: user mentions no gameplay -> Doesn't know what he's talking about -> Is possibly content with eating shit -> Red flag; Avoid.

>You've certainly been nothing but condescending to who is genuinely trying to help
You should also be tearing him a new asshole, sugarcakes. His "help" has only damaged my perception of the game and will drive me and maybe others away from it. Even if intent to help is there doesn't mean he's doing it the right way.

The problem with his description is it reads like the back of a video game box, and video game box's one job is to overstate elements that are there to sell it to you, rather than being interesting deep synopsis on gameplay mechanics.

>You should also be tearing him a new asshole, sugarcakes.

I'd rather have him and others like him than even one of you and your oh-so-gentlemanly concern for the health of this poor little game. Fuck off with your condescension, "sugarcakes."

The rest of you should ignore this troll.

>GitS
>Cowboy Bebop
>any anime with a battle in it somewhere
Rurouni Kenshin and Trigun are debatable, but to say those I named from your list are "high-paced high power hijinks" is a profoundly ignorant thing to say. Watch more anime, there's a good deal of variety to it. More than a half century of anime to choose from.

>Oh no! My feelings got hurted on 4chinz! Halp!
Nah. I'll listen to who I want. Thanks.

>deep synopsis on gameplay mechanics

Sorry, but i tried that here and got shit on. I told you how the social end works, and told the unique mechanics of the system that allow the player to control probability to a degree. I told you that its basic grid-like movement and regular attacking, but said that talents vastly alter the flow of combat. I told you how the two systems of spirit dice and talents work together.

If you don't want to play, fine. But don't tell bald-faced lies.

There is literally a talent called "Invincible manslayer" as a direct reference to rurouni kenshin. Fate i chose because there's a race and class that are references. GITS i chose because Cyborgs are a thing. I chose cowboy bebop and trigun because spike and vash are two of the closest things to a legion without being a straight up military man.

And the biggest reason, is that this is not an anime board. So i chose entry level anime as an example.

Nah, my feelings weren't hurt. I'm sorry about your empathy problem, however.

I'm not objecting to Fate being on there. I'm probably too jaded at this point, but I guess I can't see stuff like the GitS, 90s Sunrise stuff and Kenshin as being part of the flashy fights as the rest

>Sorry, but i tried that here
No, you literally didn't. You mentioned a vague idea of there being a divide between social mechanics and combat mechanics, and that was it. Hell, you even tried to brush over combat mechanics by saying "you put people on a grid and fight." What is that even supposed to mean? It was a lot of words with no subsistence to them, and that's what I'm trying to help you realize.

EVERY game has a divide between social and combat. What makes YOUR game different? There's a very large difference between 5e and 4e in both D&D and Shadowrun, how they play, how the rules affect the narrative and how characters act.

For instance, in Shadowrun, there's an archetype called Rigger who's main job is to deploy unmaned drones. In 4e, the joke was that he basically stayed back in the van because the droids were so powerful that he didn't need to leave, but in 5e, the rules were changed to make it so that the droids were now more paper thin and prone to being shot down quickly, so now Riggers are changed in that they need to leave and join with the rest of the group, along with the deckers who are likewise encouraged out of the van because something called Cyberdecks made a return which requires close proximity

The change in rules changes how you play. When you say things like "Combat is just combat, I dunno what you want bro" or "it's anime themed", that doesn't explain how the GAME functions. It's not a good pull to me or bystanders why they should take the time to read this rulebook at all or why it's worth their time.

No, it's pretty clear you got fairly butthurt by the sugarcakes comment, sweetie. Don't worry though, you're cute when you're angry.

GiTS is very high power in the sense that its tech is all very complex, interesting, and useful. Stealth camo, spider tanks, most of the tech shown off in GiTS would probably count as high power shenanigans, and the major certainly brings the pace.

In kenshin, I admit its lower power, but the pace is really high, and there's at least one person that would count as high power, hiko seijuro. On top of that there was sanosukes futae no kiwami, Most of what shishio makoto did, the kid with the super speed. Its very low power a lot of the time, so its high power moments are faded a bit as a result.

Seriously. He's baiting.

Baiting or not, i'll bite it simply because its one thing i can explain to a good degree. Its better than talking about whether or not i'm shit at explaining things or not, thats for sure.

You know there are two of us, right? Possibly three?

Oh don't be a baby that I pointed out some flaws in how you describe things. If you'll stop taking offense at the things we say and reflect on what you're saying and doing, I think you'll find that not only will you improve, you'll get more posters in these threads discussing the game you like. I'm sorry I have to be the one to tell you to put your big boy pants on, but put your big boy pants on.

Shitshow aside, another low level aragami.

>Name: Zygote/ Class: Beast/ Lv:1
>Size:2
>Wits:Low
>Senses:Normal
>Speech:No
>Reaction:Hostile
>ID:6
>Weakness: [Fire] [Cold] [Shock]

>| ACC | EVA | CNJ | RES | CHK
>{Combat Stats} | 2 | 2 | 7 | 4 | 1
>{Fixed Values} | 9 | 9 | 14 | 11 | 8

>HP: 37
>Initiative: 7(4)
>Armor:0
>Barrier:2

>[Weapon Attack] : Magicla Attack / Engaged / 1# / Resist Halves
>- [Form:Magic] 2d6+8 Magic damage to the target.

>«Poison Shot» Attack / 6Sq/ 1#/ Resist Halves
>- [Element: Toxic/ Form: Magic] Deals 2d6+9 Magical damage, And Inflict [Shift: Poison]. Damage equals half the poisons [Rating] 1/round

>>«Floating» Prep/ User/ User
>- User Gains [Shift: Flight]. 1/round

Again, super simple basic aragami. Full Rating poison would be a bit overkill at level one, so i mitigated that to reflect that its poison is supposed to be weak anyways.

One more for good measure

>Name: Cocoon maiden/ Class: Mechanical/ Lv:1
>Size:2
>Wits:Low
>Senses:Normal
>Speech:No
>Reaction:Hostile
>ID:6
>Weakness: [Fire] [Cold] [Shock]

>| ACC | EVA | CNJ | RES | CHK
>{Combat Stats} | 2 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 1
>{Fixed Values} | 9 | 8 | 14 | 12 | 8

>HP: 34
>Initiative: 6(4)
>Armor:0
>Barrier:2

>[Weapon Attack] : Magical Attack / 8sq / 1# / Resist Halves
>- [Form:Magic] 2d6+9 Magic damage to the target.

>«Poison Spikes» Attack / Engaged/ Area/ Resist Halves
>- [Element: Toxic/ Form: Magic] Deals 2d6+9 Physical damage, And Inflicts [Shift: Poison]. Damage equals half the poisons [Rating] 1/round

>>«Immobile battery» Unique/ User/ User
>- User is unable to Move, But may still act. User is Immune to [Shift: Fallen].

The third and final basic Aragami. These are just test mononoke, as they'd most resemble regular mononoke the best. There's a couple others, but they're either special, or similar to ogretail and cocoon maiden.

A thought occurred to me. If i get this done completely, should i compile all these into a proper splatbook? That'd be a lot of effort, but sometime down the line it might be worth considering.

>Its just a way of saying "Your party isn't always in the same place at the same time, and you may need to plan around that".
It's an execptionally bad way of saying that. The mechanic provides no rhyme nor reason to who, where, when, why, how someone is or isn't part of the next scene. Unless a system does a bit of building around that, like Tokyo Nova did with social skills and equipment influencing the check, it just includes the mechanic because "everyone else does it".

>I've always been a proponent of just reading the book
>gives off a vibe that you already know the game
I've read the book. And I came away from it with the feeling that I have no idea how the game actually plays, save for the few parallels to other games I noticed. This is probably because most of the mechanics are contained in discrete units that make discerning the connections between them difficult and because the relatively strong adherence to Japanese structure and grammar requires me to devote more of my mental resources to just parsing instead of understanding connections.

>And if you can't understand that, you're on the wrong board.
Funny you should say that, because the most common usage of "anime" I've seen on this board was in the general meaning of "thing I don't like", "martials too strong" or "fuck off to /pfg/" and calling a ruleset "anime" outside of that twisted context makes about as much sense as saying "The sky's color is Schadenfreude."

>direct reference to rurouni kenshin
>race and class that are references
References do not a system make. Mechanics do. Just because there's a throwaway reference to something or elements that kind of remind you of something, does not mean that the system as a whole, as the entirety of its rules and their interactions, is meant for that something or even just supports it.

>So i chose entry level anime as an example.
Then at least choose anime that do not span vastly different genres.

>The mechanic provides no rhyme nor reason to who, where, when, why, how someone is or isn't part of the next scene

Thats the DM's job. To convey story and reason. The mechanics are a method to that.

>References do not a system make. Mechanics do.

Taken wholly out of context. You are grasping at straws here man. Just move on.

>The mechanics are a method to that.
Yes, and this particular mechanic is a bad method. Have you not read the sentence after that?

>Taken wholly out of context.
What context, pray tell? That user was listing random anime that can somehow be construed to be related to Kamigakari to justify calling the system "anime".

What got your panties in such a bunch that you have completely lost all reading comprehension?

I could ask you the same thing.
But since it's evident, I don't need to.

Then i'll enlighten you a bit. So far as appearance checks go, there's a stat you can boost, 4 different races that can guarantee success on the roll 3 times per session, and a 5G item you can buy that acts in much the same way albeit as single use. The races talents cost nothing and even let them change a single spirit die to any value.

You just proved on your own that you don't know what you were talking about at all. I just found those by Ctrl+F. In other words, it did some "Building around it", just like you said. And even a method that literally anyone can use, if they wanna pony up 5G every time.

get the fuck out questfag piece of shit

And here's the start of the medium aragami, starting with one of the weaker ones.

>Name: Kongou/ Class: Beast/ Lv:3
>Size:3
>Wits:Low
>Senses:Normal
>Speech:No
>Reaction:Hostile
>ID:8
>Weakness: [Fire] [Shock]

>| ACC | EVA | CNJ | RES | CHK
>{Combat Stats} | 8 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 1
>{Fixed Values} | 15 | 12 | 12 | 10 | 8

>HP: 46
>Initiative: 6(4)
>Armor:3
>Barrier:0

>[Weapon Attack] : Physical Attack / Engaged / 1#
>- [Form: Hammer] 3d6+13 Physical damage to the target.

>«Wind blast» Attack / Engaged/ Area/ Resist Halves
>- [Element: Wind/ Form: Magic] Deals 3d6+9 Magical damage to all targets 1/round

>>«Activate» Unique/ User/ User
>- User gains +3 Initiative and +3 damage to Weapon attack and Wind blast.

The first of the medium sized aragami, and a couple levels higher. This ones still pretty simple, all things considered. By the time i'm done, a couple of these might reach size 5. Which is terrifying to think about, since the damage roll is based on size.

>Then i'll enlighten you a bit.
Thank you, that's what I've been asking for all the time.

>So far as appearance checks go, there's a stat you can boost, 4 different races that can guarantee success on the roll 3 times per session, and a 5G item you can buy that acts in much the same way albeit as single use. The races talents cost nothing and even let them change a single spirit die to any value.
Okay, that still doesn't really represent anything in terms of story or structure, but at least the mechanic has the decency to mostly invalidate itself, assuming 5G isn't a major investment.

>You just proved on your own that you don't know what you were talking about at all.
Please recall >And I came away from it with the feeling that I have no idea how the game actually plays, save for the few parallels to other games I noticed.

>In other words, it did some "Building around it", just like you said.
There is a difference between "building around" and "tacking on". I still don't see what purpose or beneficial effect these checks have or are supposed to have on the game, but I will concede that they are not quite as bad as my initial impression, by virtue of being made redundant easily.

>Thats the DM's job. To convey story and reason.
That's true only of systems where the story is left up in the air for the players and DM to decide. If the game has a hard mechanic for it describing whether or not you are allowed to appear in a scene, then it best have a narrative reason for doing so, otherwise you wind up with shit like 1st edition's rules where wizards can't use knifes because, leaving a gaping disconnect between narrative and rules, also known as ludonarrative dissonance.

Just to let you know, unlike other user, I have played FEAR games like Double Cross, and I understand why the scene checks are there, but I find your defense of the mechanic unsatisfying.

Look, just to show there is no bad blood, allow me to help you come to an understanding

>The mechanic provides no rhyme nor reason to who, where, when, why, how someone is or isn't part of the next scene.

The reason for the mechanic in most Japanese games is the idea that each player gets their own individual scene at the start of the game that's supposed to be THEIR scene. The check is meant as a minor deterrence from someone else trying to steal your spotlight. But it's understood that the scene is not wholly sacred, and there will be times where someone needs to be there, so that's why there's a cost associated with entering into someone else's scene. It's not meant to stop or even hinder people from entering, just a cost to deter people from doing it willy nilly to steal the show, and for them to consider if they REALLY need to enter or not.

If you care so much to argue with an user about it, just read the book.

Arguing takes less time than reading a book and improves both participants.

>Just to let you know, unlike other user, I have played FEAR games like Double Cross
Hey, now you're just being nasty. I have run Double Cross several times. I had to, seeing as I was gullible enough to buy the physical version of that piece of crap.

And there are several issues with your explanation.

First, Appearance Checks in their basic form of "roll to see whether you appear" do nothing to protect the lead player's spotlight. All the spotlight-stealer needs is a good roll and they're free to steal all the spotlight they want. In the specific case of Kamigakari, they can also just buy an item for negligible cost, or use a Racial Talent, which even rewards them for attempting to steal the spotlight.

Second, if someone other than the lead player really needs to be in a scene, the GM just puts them in the scene, without any Appearance Check.

Third, if we're talking Double Cross, that version of the Appearance Check has a completely different problem. It does not prevent anyone from entering a scene, but instead its cost applies to everyone, including the lead PC and anyone else necessary for the scene.

See

Unless one is simply there to shit on another, like seems to be

>Hey, now you're just being nasty.
As opposed to you who seem to be in this thread despite seeming to hate Japanese RPGs? I enjoyed Double Cross and came in here cause I enjoy Japanese TRPG design.

>First, Appearance Checks[...]
That's why I went out of my way to specify that they aren't there to stop or hinder the scene entry, only to place a cost on it to provide a natural deterrence. Again, it's the intention, but they realize that there should be allowed entry points for necessity and those all involve cost.

>Second, if someone other than the lead player really needs to be in a scene
The point of the rules is to encourage the DM to make a scene for someone alone, such as meeting with their superior. It's meant to explain how the cast are being assembled. The GM can always override this if it's important enough, but I'm talking about times where someone might realize "Oh, I have a skill that can help you out" to try and break in.

>It does not prevent anyone from entering a scene, but instead its cost applies to everyone
If you're talking about the corruption meter, that applies to everyone, yes, but you do require a roll to actually break into someone's intro scene or to be there, which does prevent you from entering a scene.

Trying to engage in discussion without expressing only positive opinions is now considered "shitting on another"? Where are we, RPG.net?

Even if he's shitposting, engaging and defending your ideas will naturally make them stronger. You should only disengage and ignore when it becomes blatant ad hominum or you notice that you're talking around in circles, and even in the latter case, you just need to change your perspective and see which point it is they disagree with to potentially get them to agree to disagree.

Next one on the list of god eater stuff.

>Name: Chi you/ Class: Humanoid/ Lv:3
>Size:3
>Wits:Low
>Senses:Normal
>Speech:No
>Reaction:Hostile
>ID:8
>Weakness: [Fire] [Cold]

>| ACC | EVA | CNJ | RES | CHK
>{Combat Stats} | 9 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 1
>{Fixed Values} | 16 | 13 | 10 | 10 | 8

>HP: 46
>Initiative: 11(6)
>Armor:6
>Barrier:0

>[Weapon Attack] : Physical Attack / Engaged / 1#
>- [Form: Hammer] 3d6+13 Physical damage to the target.

>«Energy Blast» Attack / 6sq/ 1#/ Resist Halves
>- [Element: Light/ Form: Magic] Deals 3d6+9 Magical damage to all targets 1/round

>>«Glide» Prep/ User/ User
>- User can make a combat move, ignoring engagements

>>«Activate» Unique/ User/ User
>- User gains +6 Initiative.

Next up, the ever annoying Chi you. A right pain in the ass to fight, and they hit hard to boot. Not only that, they are fast buggers that prefer hit and run. All around an annoying enemy to face.

>As opposed to you who seem to be in this thread despite seeming to hate Japanese RPGs?
What the everloving fuck, man? I am here because I love Tenra Bansho Zero, Tokyo Nova, Ryuutama, Maid RPG, Make You Kingdom, Shinobigami, Giant Allege and Golden Sky Stories and I'm always hungry for more goodness from the Land of the Rising Sun. That said, I do not simply assume that everything from Japan is good, see the SRS plague.

My dislike for Double Cross stems from the fact that I loved the idea and the setting, but the poor game design and even worse localization ruined it for me.

>That's why I went out of my way to specify that they aren't there to stop or hinder the scene entry
But they do.
>only to place a cost on it to provide a natural deterrence.
And as I pointed out, that cost is negligible in this very game.
Compare Tokyo Nova, where entering a scene requires you to have the right connections, limits your equipment and usually costs you a good card from your hand.

>It's meant to explain how the cast are being assembled.
That's a function of the Introduction Phase, not the Appearance Check. And it's usually the Main Phase where Appearance Checks feature.

>but you do require a roll to actually break into someone's intro scene or to be there
According to which rule? I just checked pages 265 and 266 and according to those, all that involves is GM permission and the mandatory Encroachment increase.

>What the everloving fuck, man?
Don't get your panties in a knot, I'm just saying how you present yourself by coming in here saying things like "fuck double cross" without really explaining why. Do we look psychic enough to know that you like all those other games when all you've said is you have a hate boner for double cross?

>But they do.
Stopping means preventing in this context completely.
Hinder in this context means to make it as though you must essentially castrate yourself to perform the task.
>And as I pointed out, that cost is negligible in this very game.
It's not. It's still a cost. If you don't purchase those items, have those skills, or make that roll, then you're out. That's not negligiable, regardless of how easy it is to get those things, it still exists.

I will state it again, because you seem insistent on not reading. The costs are there are a natural deterrent. Deterrent meaning in this context a psychological road block that will affect decisions in a subtle yet negative way. "I could break into that scene, but I don't really feel like I'll make the roll" or "Eh, I don't have the item, so I'm not going to bother", which will lower entrance into a scene from say 50% down to 35% or so, because now the player will think about if the cost is worth showboating. This isn't rocket science, it's very basic game theory. To note again, in Japan, this isn't as big of an issue because there are less autistic people playing TRPGs and they have very strong group morals.

>That's a function of the Introduction Phase, not the Appearance Check. And it's usually the Main Phase where Appearance Checks feature.
I was talking mostly about the Opening Phase. That said, I just checked and discovered there is indeed no appearance check. I must have conflated this with another ruleset, or simply heard wrong.

To be fair about the average difficulty rating of the roll, its literally at the average for the lowest possible roll without modifiers, 2d6+1, with the difficulty average being 8.

So you have a 50/50 chance to beat an average appearance check, even at the lowest possible odds.

Not to mention, any talent that increases luck checks should work on appearance checks

Oh thank god a Kamigakari thread. Okay, I have to ask. What is with the split-form weapons? They don't seem to have much use, as one-handed and two-handed weapons have niches that make them better choices.

Youd be correct, honestly. There are very few situations where a switch hand weapon does better than either other type.

Those are
>when using a shield
>in conjunction with contractor A
>when one hand isnt able to be used

Aside from these scenarios, dual wielding and teo handers win out by a good margin

I should expound on this a bit.

Two-handers can't be used with shields, so using a switch-hander is the next best thing.

Contractor A Has talents that allow you to use a switch-hand weapon in conjunction with a contractor A weapon, effectively meaning you are dual wielding a larger weapon and your bike.

In the third scenario, we are assuming your other hand is preoccupied. Carrying something, cut off, whatever happened, you can't use that hand for one reason or another.

These are the scenario's in which switch-hand is better. In contractor A's case, its actually pretty good.

I really wish switch hand was better

Considering there are a fair amount of weapons that are switch hand, yeah, I'd agree.

To be fair, its not like they are unusable, and it does save time switching weapons if you need to carry something in one hand.

They just don't quite hit the damage thresholds of the other two methods.

Right now, Kamigakari user is going through the PDF again, so hopefully he finds something we missed about switch hand weapons that would make them better.

True, true.

Hmm, could switch hands do the whole gun/sword thing?

If you mean using a gun and sword in each hand, no. Unfortunately not. That falls under ambidexterity, unfortunately. Unless kamigakari user finds some wording he misinterpreted, which would be cool.

Speaking of, he said he was pretty far through the remake of the PDF, i wonder if he's actually gotten to that yet.

Can talents that reduce the cost of another talent reduce that cost to nothing? We've just reached level 4 in our campaign. so we're starting to dip into talents like that.

Yes, you can do that. Nothing in the rules seems to state otherwise

But man, level 4? Got any stories?

All things considered, at high level play this would probably be an optimal path so far as spirit management goes. Only so much messing with values can get past the fact that you only have maybe four or five spirit die.

By making it so some things don't cost anything, you essentially boost your over-under by a wide margin, which may be required in higher levels. We're talking like, 15+ which i don't think anyone knows how works yet, but its still something that should be considered.

Next is the gboro gboro. Generally one of the weakest large aragami, more because its got a giant weakpoint and doesn't move enough to protect it than anything else.

>Name: Gboro Gboro/ Class: Beast/ Lv:3
>Size:3
>Wits:Low
>Senses:Normal
>Speech:No
>Reaction:Hostile
>ID:8
>Weakness: [Fire] [Shock]

>| ACC | EVA | CNJ | RES | CHK
>{Combat Stats} | 3 | 4 | 9 | 4 | 2
>{Fixed Values} | 10 | 11 | 16| 11 | 9

>HP: 46
>Initiative: 9(5)
>Armor:0
>Barrier:0

>[Weapon Attack] : Physical Attack / Engaged / 1#
>- [Form: Spear] 3d6+8 Physical damage to the target.

>«Water Shot» Attack / 8sq/ 1#/ Resist Halves
>- [Element: Cold/ Form: Magic] Deals 3d6+13 Magical damage to one targets 1/round

>>«Amphibious» Unique/ User/ User
>- User can move through water as if on normal terrain.

>>«Activate» Unique/ User/ User
>- User gains +6 Initiative

This is the first one i've made that takes advantage of terrain. Fighting it isn't terribly difficult in the games, so its not all that strong. To make use of it, you will need to impose some aquatic terrain on the combat grid, though.

One thing i've noticed is there's nothing above level 15, to my knowledge. Player levels can go up to 20, so why aren't there some slightly higher level monsters?

Bump

So then how would 15+ play even go right now then?

Seems like "lots and lots of endgame creatures." I feel like past a certain point only NPC godhunters can really challenge other godhunters.

I suppose some level 15s might work if you use both aramitama and boss templates, but at level 20 that'd be almost every mononoke