So I have recently finished running a long WFRP 2e campaign on the advice of Veeky Forums when I asked for a good low fantasy system and I am sorely disappointed. I had expected a gritty low fantasy system with lethal and fast combat. What I got was a clunky system in which combat dragged on due to everyone missing most of the time and damage being reduced by reduction to the extent that hardly ever is anything killed in one blow. Add to that the fact that while I love the career system, it led to players killing off or retiring their characters as soon as anything bad happened to them (madness, disease or loss of limbs) so that they could roll up a more optimized character to play on with and the fact that it became increasingly more difficult to challenge them with realistic threats (town guard, orcs etc.) as they increased in experience and I found it nigh impossible to run a coherent campaign.
What are better low fantasy systems that you might recommend that I might use? I have heard GURPS or Runequest 6 my might work. How might I avoid running into similar problems in them as I did in WFRP?
Fantasy Craft with the appropriate Campaign Qualities. The pitfalls you described do not apply.
Anthony Diaz
I dunno... mini six?
Brody Peterson
Shadows of the Demon Lord
Nathaniel Miller
Unknown Armies Symbaroum Delta Green
Mason Carter
>Let your players roll new chracters when something bad happened to them.
Why would you do this when you wanted to run a high lethality campaign and then complain about them doing it?
>town guards/orcs stopped being realistic threats >damage reduction to the extent of no 1 hit kills
These two do tag into each other - how fast were your characters leveling up and getting gear? I've played a decade long WFRP campaign where characters could still be killed if they weren't expecting a fight. Were they decked lit6in magic gear and high end equipment?
>Clunky system, players missed constantly This can be a problem when people don't know the system too well and don't realise you can get bonuses from flanking, having the higher ground, winning the last round of combat, taking dofferent stances ect ect.
How long were you running this game for and why didn't you seek advicd for problems you were having while you were running it?
Evan Myers
>how fast were your characters leveling up and getting gear 100xp/session
>How long were you running this game for game lasted 6 months
> didn't you seek advicd for problems you were having while you were running it Because it wasn't that big an issue while we where playing. I did incorporate bonuses for flanking an opponent, outnumbering them etc. While the campaign was going on we had a lot of fun and the momentum of the game pulled us through any major issues with the system, but now that the campaign has come to a close I have had some time to think back on the game and what I did and didn't like about it as I plan for our next one, my largest gripe is that I found combat to be boring and repetitive, as well as the fact that if included more than a handful of enemies it would take a very long time to get through.( to be fair the may be due to the fact that I had 5-6 players)
As for equipment, I didn't give them many magic Items, really only they only had them when they where exploring a ruined dwarf hold that had been overrun by chaos and they freed the dwarf king who had been imprisoned there on his throne, who lent them some of the holds weapons while they went to go and clear the hold of the demons infesting it, they returned those weapons even thought he dwarf king died which I was quite surprised by, players being players. Other than that the bretonnian Knight got a magic sword for one adventure on loan from his family, this being the extent of the magic items they got. (All this being before one of the players rolled a tunesmith as a replacement character, but that was just before the end of the campaign)
Gavin Jones
Not OP but I have a WFRP question of my own.
One of my players has been dancing with Chaos for like a year now IRL, doing stuff like wearing the breastplate of a fallen Beastman, making unsavory connections, extremely vain attitude, etc. While his character worships Stromfels as his primary deity instead of any explicit Chaos deities, last session his PC really wanted to manifest the ability to speak Estalian (long story) and asked me privately if he could call upon the powers of Chaos to do so. I ruled that given his past experiences he could if he failed a WP test (which he did), so I let him speak Estalian for IC two days, and not very fluently.
The problem is I had him roll WP again to resist Insanity and passed, so he had no consequences to doing so. It doesn't seem right to call upon Chaos and be rewarded with no consequences. Thoughts?
Nathaniel Barnes
Not getting insanity can be fine. The problem is rather the first part. The dark gods don't submit to demands. Especially not to some guy who isn't even a worshipper. And even in cases when he gets mutations, which can happen by getting in contact with chaos energy, he is not the one who decides that. You usually roll dives and many times it can fuck you over. Better read the time of corruption for more info.
Christopher Bell
You know if you run GURPS and give your players enough points every session that they can improve something, you're going to run into the same problem real fast.
Shouldn't a non-chaos priest or something notice?
Leo Moore
Chaos is capricious, and he's previously called upon dark powers to no effect, so this time I thought I'd give him a chance. I did actually read the ToC but unfortunately unlike the 40k games there's no Corruption mechanic, so I'm kind of stuck with RPing it.
The PC paid a lot of money to a shady blacksmith to hammer out the explicit Chaos runes carved into the armor, and even then he wears it under a cloak. Since he has no mutations I'm not sure how priests would notice.
Logan Hughes
Runequest or Mythras as it's called now is your best bet.
Julian Mitchell
>so this time I thought I'd give him a chance Why? As you said they are not his main diety. And even if, he is not the one what he gets.
Austin Martinez
Well then how would one avoid that, how do you preserve a sense of advancement without the characters becoming absurdly powerful and beyond the means of most average people in the world to threaten?
Camden Foster
>The problem is I had him roll WP again to resist Insanity and passed, so he had no consequences to doing so. It doesn't seem right to call upon Chaos and be rewarded with no consequences. Thoughts? There are no consequences AS FAR AS HE CAN TELL. An important difference. The first hit is free, right? That's how you get people addicted.
Also, why the fuck did you even allow for the second roll if you didn't want him to avoid the consequences.
Joshua Hall
Hi gv
Josiah White
He's MARKED now. Witches and people with the sight will know he's been touched by Chaos for some time (possibly forever) and will respond accordingly.
Perhaps the Old Gods will ask a favor of HIM.
Cooper Jackson
Something isn't adding up here...
Benjamin Jackson
GURPS has fast, brutal combat once players get used to it, but there's a real learning curve.
Don't worry about it. Getting away with a bargain with a deamon once tends to quickly lead people down a path of temptation.
Leo Turner
That's Chaos for you, cuz it's like, um, chaotic and doesnt follow a strick reward/affliction balance like Law does.
Aiden Jones
>Implying Sigmar rewards his most loyal servants
Connor Cooper
Missing a lot is a problem on low levels only. Also, WFRP isn't a "fair" system - you can just have a shitty roll that will fuck up your character. Luckily, use of maneuvers and tactics can overcome or mitigate this. As for "die until I roll good stats" attitude -we solve it by giving no extra exp to new character after he dies, but doubling his exp gain (he'll catch up, but that will take time). Characters going insane, getting crippled or mutated but still carrying on is what makes it fun. Also, prosthetics rules are quite generous.
Hudson Myers
If you are lucky enough you can get all the chaos stuff you want without consequences. You can get some strength from the Master of Battle to beat this ogre. For free! If you are tough enough, there won't even be any residual effects! Grandfather loves you! You can perform a simple rite to get Not Die From Any Disease potion! (Unluckily, list of side effects includes carrying a random disease for the time of it's action and possibly giving birth.
Angel Walker
>my largest gripe is that I found combat to be boring and repetitive, as well as the fact that if included more than a handful of enemies it would take a very long time to get through.( to be fair the may be due to the fact that I had 5-6 players)
Yep that's WFRP for you. For all the hundreds of careers you don't get a lot of interesting options unless maybe you're a wizard.
3rd edition is better about this, you can buy special moves to spice up combat and the dice mechanic allows a more interesting variety of results from each action ("you miss, nothing happens" is much less common) but 3e comes with its own baggage
Well then tell me how I might better use my tools.
Wyatt Scott
I love WFRP, including the 2e. I think the reason why I love 2e is because I played and houseruled 1e to begin with and was able to cut through 2e's bullshit, and end up with a good WFRP1.5. Both GURPS and RQ6 are several dimensions above WFRP2 mechanics-wise and gritty-wise. You should look long and hard at RQ6/Mythras.
But judging from what you say about your players, I doubt changing systems will help you.
Luis Powell
Look at the problems you had with the system and ask yourself what you personally could have done differently to make the game run better.
Not doing enough damage in a fight? Add your degree of success in the hit to your damage.
Missing too often? Let players spend fate points to reverse the ones and the tens on their d100 roll.
As the GM, you have the final say. The success or failure of a game comes down to you, not the system.
WFRP isn't an amazing system, but it's not a terrible one for low fantasy gritty combat. If you jump from system to system thinking the game is the problem, then you'll never find a solution.
Nolan Hughes
Fights in RQ/Mythras never last more than a few turns, give it a try if you haven't
