Greyhawk

Metzen go home, nobody likes you.

Yeah, take a peek into the Lion's Pride on any RP server to see that shit's out of control.

What went wrong?

Plenty of people like him, the lore's not perfect but you chose literally the most stupid and hyperbolic shit to point out as its flaws.

Why not the stupidity of adding dragons as a guardian race into a setting where the guardian race can effectively do nothing due to the main characters being mortals?

What about the stupid character turns that make no sense like Garrosh or the plot armour of characters like Sylvanas? What about the sheer lack of sense most expansions have going into their plots?

There's a lot to complain about when it comes to Warcraft and its oft shoddy worldbuilding and writing, and you chose two things that aren't really wrong with it. You're a retard.

Because I played WoW for 10 minutes before uninstalling that boring piece of shit.
I don't know any of these new faggot characters, but from what I read in lore summaries its a huge train wreck

So what you're telling me is, you're 'criticising' something you know next to nothing about? Do you often talk shit about things you know nothing about?

Who am I kidding, that's probably your life.

check out this badass
did you dab when you did it

So you wouldn't a space goat?

>space STDs
No thanks, I like my women like I like my beer - stout and bitter.

I also like my women like I like my beer.
I don't like beer. It's expensive, tastes like piss, and you only drink it to get drunk anyway (which you often end up regretting).

I'm sure there'd be a way to make it viable, but considering the average WoW roleplayer is harder to work with than a rabid tumblerina-/pol/ hybrid (muh faction! muh race dindu! muh race better! u can't hurt me I have magic shield) I don't think there's a demographic for it. The setting is great if you remove all the artificial aspects that were tacked on to make it an MMO, but these people guard the canon that benefits them personally, while always bashing the canon that doesn't, regardless of quality.
Remove player input, rewrite the politics in the setting to make sense, return to old characterisation of characters from WC3, keep the worldgen but without this stupid "Sargeras not the worst, Void Lords are" last minute edit.

I would a goat from beyond space

Dwarves leave

>Arthas was good, became brainwashed and evil (just like Kerrigan)
Except Arthas was always portrayed as a villain. The better parallel for Kerrigan would be Sylvanas, who was also shilled and allowed to get away with obscenely evil shit.

Where do you think we are?

If you stick to Warcraft 3 timeline, or very early WoW (vanilla or earlier) then it's great for adventuring. I wouldn't do anything post-BC though. You'd also have to avoid making the players hero-unit tier in the game, or else they'll just roll over everything.

I wish I could find peopel to play this with. Desperately wan't to play a Tauren Plaguebender.

Arthas was right at Andorhal but alienating Uther and Jaina robbed him of his anchor. With no one to smack him down when he was acting retarded he went from a zealot to an easily manipulated idiot.

>Chronicles 2 disproved the idea that the Apexis went into space to praise the sun more effectively
feels bad man

So? That doesn't make him a Kerrigan ripoff.

You'll have to explain your reasoning to me.

Kerrigan was left for dead and captured before being rebuilt from the cellular level into a command node for the Zerg. Arthas was consumed by his ambition which lead him to seek out Frostmourne and willfully offer up his soul for power.

They're not very similar character arcs beyond both being fallen heroes.

If you like Warcraft so much, why don't you come and contribute to wowpedia?

You're agreeing.

Woops. You're right. I've been up too long. Ignore me.

The other guy fucked off because other people in the thread saw he was acting like a moron and shut him up.

Has there been any more work on the 5e conversion? Has anyone played it?

If you wanna get drunk you drink hard liquor user

I haven't heard of it got a link?

As long as it is not WoW-levels of factionalism and simply go on adventures, then I'm OK.

Here ya go, docs.google.com/document/d/1oaqqtXQG-fT-C5_yajhLbUabdpN5XPn7hmV-MXAGz78/edit

Looks like it's still being worked on, people had been talking about it months ago on here, but that was back when there was a general thread for talking about Warcraft lore/RPGs.

Greyhawk is a great setting, it's got just enough stuff in it to not be a clusterfuck or 400+ OFFICIALY PUBLISHED BOOKS HUGE.

You know Neverwinter Online? That is is sadly, an accurate depiction of just how bad Faerun and the forgotten realms are today.
>Oversaturated populace
>Bleeding heart alignment pushing Dragonborn
>Lore errors, oh god, so many of these
>Thoon Hulks being used by rgular illithid in a non-conforming conclave that has the Elder Brain out in the open defying all forms of known illithid architecture like the like you'd find in 2e3.5 Neverwinter Nights 1&2 and even Baldurs Gates
>Start of the game has a Warlock Stopping a Dracoliche's soul from returning to it's phylactery doing nondescriptive action
>Valindra Shadowmantle's phylactery not conforming to Phylactery size rules, being a massive "Please break me" purple diamond
>Valindra making VAMPIRE GHOSTS
>Anything spellplague
>Thay immediately decides that fianancial world domination is taking too long and immediately puts itself at risk assising the cult of the Dragon and Valindra's assualt on Neverwinter
>Make Orcus even more broken by letting him have SUMMONABLE NEGATIVE ENERGY ORIENTATED PATROLLING SPHERES OF ANNHILLATION THAT EXPLODE IN THE SAME WAY IF YOU THROW THE ROD OF WONDERS INTO IT BY BEING CHARGED BY ZOMBIES
>MULTIPLE
>FUCKING
>SPHERES OF ANHHILATION
Fuck Forgotten Realms, Fuck neverwinter Online, Fuck Elminster Fuck Nu-Minsc, the only canon thing about nevewinter Online is when Demogorgon shows up and smacks Drizzt and Friends right into the fucking Abyss like that story with him BEATING DEMOGRGON WITH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP should have gone. The only other good thing was the random Lich Phylactery quest, which was Grade A comedy at it's finest.

Shit wrong reply, my bad.

Thanks user, I something like this whipped up a couple months ago using Homebrewery. For some reason the tauren section always gets smushed.

Greyhawk's biggest problem was that despite sort of being the defacto default setting of 3.5 barely any actual Greyhawk setting books came out, and there hasn't really been anything since
As for FR I understand it Neverwinter Online was based on 4e's infamous Forgotten Realms lore which has been largely retconned or undone in some other way

You're so wrong it's not even funny.

Getting drunk off beer alone is a chore. Only anime characters, highschoolers, and alcoholics who can only afford Steel Reserve get drunk off beer

D20 3.0 and 3.5 match really poorly with WoW.

The biggest difference to get over is really just how WoW (and video games in general really) is an encounter based design with mechanics that are purely based on short cooldowns (4e comes closer, but oh boy watch the fireworks when you compare the two).
Anything more than giving a DnD a thin Azeroth colored coat of paint would beg the question of why you aren't just making your own system though (or god forbid just playing WoW).

>(or god forbid just playing WoW).
Well that's easy. You want a DM more trustworthy than Kossak.

>4e comes closer, but oh boy watch the fireworks when you compare the two

I've never really gotten that comparison. 4e doesn't have any per-round cooldowns. You need to actively stop fighting to recharge anything.

More in line with it would be something like 3.5's binder who had a shit tonne of 'recharges in 1d4 rounds' abilities.

underrated post

I think what went wrong is that both characters decided five seconds into their brawl that they weren't gonna do a Mak'gora anymore and just wanted to murder eachother, and the fanbase didn't get the memo.

Seriously I don't recall the dialogue prior to the cinematic anymore but if they were honestly going into this claiming it's an honour duel for leadership then the whole setup was already misconceived. They had nothing to contest, anymore, they really just wanted eachother dead, and in such an environment the concept of "cheating" doesn't really have any merit, anymore.

Also Garrosh is yet another fine example of wasted potential as a character. Also, just going by the impossible timeline of Blizzard, Garrosh is pretty much the same age if not older than Thrall lol

...There's only been one reply since I posted that learn board etiquette jesus.

youtube.com/watch?v=fTyeE5oK7LQ
Anyone else think Hearthstone's Gadgetzan could be pretty cool as a setting?

>small trade outpost turned bustling port city metropolis
>cool aesthetic blending fantasy with 1920's
>fought over by three unique gangs with their own looks, goals, and fighting styles
>traditional mobsters but with a bunch of fantasy races and a ludicrous arsenal
>freaky alchemists with magic tattoos peddling dangerous bootleg potions, led by a troll who is possibly a dragon in disguise
>immigrants from Pandaria in a Chinatown sort of deal, secretly building up an army of jade golems to take over the city
>all while a crazy gnome blows shit up for "justice" and the mayor plots to secede the city from his cartel bosses

You could inspiration from the rest of WoW's Tanaris or nearby Un'goro and it's card exapnsion if you wanted to expand out from the city itself.

Also people don't get that there's different tiers of Mak'Gora from one-weapon loincloths only final destination to full armor, all weapons.

A little bit too much 20s, but it is kinda cool to see the city bigger.

Hearthstone's writers have this amazing ability to realise that Azeroth doesn't need a definite end towards which all possible plotlines must lead or all plotlines that don't lead to it are inferior and are only an afterthought, so they manage to make all these expansions "another day another adventure".

Problem is also the rule of cool is now tuned up to 11 and coherent lore will now be even more difficult.

I mean Hearthstone's never been intended as a solid story.

They're just jokey vignettes and what-ifs.

Sorta like a non-serious noncanon version of Warcraft Legends (Which was such a good series.)

The printed rules are just core 3.5with the numbers filed off and azeroth races.

It does a shit job of being a system for warcraft but the monster manuals are nice.

>wrong opinions.
I actually hated wow and quickly unsubbed, but like the warcraft setting, because warcraft 2 and warcraft 3 were great and have an entertaining setting.

>If you stick to Warcraft 3 timeline, or very early WoW (vanilla or earlier) then it's great for adventuring.

This. Vanilla-era WoW still felt like D&D character power levels, and the world was full of hidden mysteries instead of apocalypses from space or punching goddamn Deathwing.

In Warcraft lore, high elves and trols had been in war for many centuries before the later joined the Horde, and hating the newfound allies of their ancient enemies doesn't sound like biased to me.

>All of the players in our tabletop group played WoW
>Most would probably be okay with WoW-themed D&D

Well. Except for that one guy in our group who refuses to play anything that's pre-written. No settings, no modules. Completely original settings ONLY.

Warcraft 3's lore, particularly (but not limited to) the Frozen Throne was also pretty shit

Hearthstone doesn't have enough writing for it to be bad. Obviously this is fine for minimalists but anyone who enjoys a good narrative should be concerned with how it and Overwatch are becoming the "new way to do things" as in the game doesn't deliver any storytelling of its own.

Stories in games are a meme anyways. Think about it, you're basically tacking on a concept that can only be experienced once in your entire lifetime, with something that is meant to be replayed over and over again until you get bored and move on to something else.

Old-School games didn't need a 150 hour narrative to justify sending plumbers to rescue princesses from giant turtles, the fact that you wanted to play was already justification enough with any story to be had coming from you going out of your way to find it later on, whether it's through manuals, flavor text, or details strewn throughout the levels.

They immortal holy space goats. Considering how old they get the STDs that enter their bodies are purged by arcane or holy magic.

metzen is retired you dumbfuck and even when he was with the company he wasnt actively involved in lore shit for years

brain-dead imbecile

He was involved with the shit the guy was responding to. You seem angry

I wouldn't mind running or playing in Azeroth. Though I'd rather play only between Warcraft 3 upto WotLK because after that the lore kinda gets a bit crazy and stuff. Though I'd probably want to upgrade/convert the system to 5e or something not 3.5 (personal preference). I can see myself having lot of fun and really getting invested into a game like that. Being able to interact in a world I've played a bit in and be able to interact with those important lore figures would be awesome.

I looked at the wowwiki. The linguistic aspect of Warcraft is literally the dumbest shit I've ever read and I would've been happier not knowing how retarded and poorly thought-out it is.

Every single sapient being in the universe is fully fluent in Common for no apparent reason (presumably born with full inherent knowledge of it I guess?), but every race except humans also has a "racial" language (despite being apparently born fully fluent in "Common"). There's no explanation, and racial languages seem to exist solely so characters can "lapse into" them, despite Common being their first language.

Common is the Human language (for no adequately explained reason), despite humans not being even remotely widespread enough for that to make any sense. And certain entire races that have fairly regular contact with humans are arbitrarily bad at Common, and worse than other entire races that had literally never encountered a human and didn't know what they were.

Garrosh became a retard, Thrall became a messiah.

Thrall was supposed to be a mere spiritual leader, Garrosh a fanboy.

youtube.com/watch?v=zr_Ta6NS3-g

Viability does not equate to quality, you mongoloid

Much as I completely lack a fuck to give about Warcraft's setting at this point, space goats still make my dick hard, so that's alright

Explain the popularity of Warhammer than.

ebin britbong humo(U)r?

I miss the heyday of Warcraft a lot.

Thrall became a mary sue because Warcraft writers are fucking retarded

>BC, Garrosh is a whiny shit no one likes
>Nice quest makes him feel better
>WotlK, Garrosh is suddenly an arrogant warmongering douchebag
>playerbase fucking hates him
>blizz make him the new warchief to the outrage of a lot of players
>make Thrall a Jesus sue who is the only hope to save the world from the evil dragon he has no real lore connection to, fanbase begins to turn on formerly beloved character
>Garrosh gets a few cool moments that makes him out to be somewhat honorable, even if he is still a warmonger. Some players warm up to him
>to satisfy the players who still hated him, blizz makes him go full cartoon villain
>annoys fans who warmed up to him, they point out how a lot of what he did pre-Pandaria full bad guy wasn't strictly his fault
>to acknowledge these complaints Garrosh voices them in his final battle with Green jesus.
>blizz attempts to point out that even if Thrall's bad choices put Garrosh where he was, he still did a lot of shit and shouldn't be absolved of responsibility
>do it clumsily so it looks like Thrall is absolving himself of ALL responsibility

That's the gist of it.

Shit hasn't been funny for decades.

yesand.jpg

Too bad they never fleshed out any of the individual human kingdoms. Or really any individual states within a larger political sphere.

Warcraft as a setting could use some more fleshing out of things like that. Stories and conflicts among members of the same race. Details about customs, religious beliefs, and relatively small-scale things. Things unrelated (or tangentially related) to big world-changing metaplots.

But can it be used to wargame?

Stories aren't a meme, and the interactive nature of games as a medium is an interesting and unique way to tell a story. However, many games don't need them, or don't do it well enough to justify them being there in the first place. Lots of those games are multiplayer.

The blood elves did not join the Horde until Burning Crusade and the Warcraft RPG came out before wow.

>Greyhawk is a great setting, it's got just enough stuff in it to not be a clusterfuck
I have run Greyhawk campaigns in 1e/2e for literally 30 years... I've never used much of the 3.whatever stuff either other than really a high level idea (crusades through the shield lands was about it)
Shit, I've even created all my own sourcebook so I don't need to use any of the official books anymore.
Even with my graphics skills at the 9000 hours in ms paint level I even created my own map of the city of greyhawk that isn't that fucking abortion of shit that the pit out officially and closely resembles gygaxs original layouts of the city

Alterac had a vague Russian-ness of some kind in the novels. Stromgard folk were boisterous and I got kind of a German vibe.

But yeah, as of Wow the only kingdom tropes were that Gilneas was Victorian England and Lordaeron was just an ultra-conservative version of Stormwind. Dalaran was never a human kingdom, in the novels it was a mix of elves and humans while by the WoW novels it was also equally gnome.

Yeah. They just never have wanted to.

The closest we got was a mediocre miniatures game with great minis which had fucking terrible paintjobs, and the WoW boardgame. Which to be fair may as well have been a fucking wargame considering all the parts. Look at this, its the core game and one expansion out of three.

I hate how everything to do with Dranei involves futa.

Then again, a lot of the non-futa looks damn nice.

Like if you're going to do a spacejewgoat coochie, you have to be good at it.

It's too centered around the red versus blue conflict.

Forgotten Realms books always seem to reflect issues with the edition of DnD they're from.
The original book, way back in 1st edition, has terrible layout, no real index, and is incredibly scattershot - no real rhyme or reason to what gets treated as important.
The 2nd Edition sourcebook is better laid-out, but the whole thing is nearly collapsing under the weight of all the metaplot - between the comic book-tier 'Time of Troubles' crisis, and the Dumbest Mongol Invasion Ever, you can't get away from events nobody can even participate in.
3e is big. Ridiculously big. Like, they throw in waaaaay too much information, which overburdens anybody trying to learn about this world for the first time. Plus, it was the first time that the sourcebook treated the NPCs with the same level of untouchable Mary Sue reverence that the adventures and novels did, so you ended up hating any named character.
4? 4th edition smashes apart everything that existed, and adds in a whole lot of new stuff, for no rhyme or reason other then 'everything is different', even if everything ends up feeling bizarrely homogenized. (I know 4th fans don't like comparisons to 'WoW' or other MMOs, but *I'm* not the one who decided to stat up the goddamned Molten Core in the Forgotten Realms sourcebook...)
And the 5th edition book spends most of its time apologizing to everyone, and trying to get everybody to love them. This feels more awkward then anything else, and gets in the way of the parts that do work.

I just steal lore (WC3 and select few bits from WoW), change things to taste and ignore mechanics. I think one of the biggest problems with various attempts at converting the game to RPG lies with people trying to translate WoW class mechanics, when WoW classes themselves change every fucking expansion, often multiple times.

That said, being unfamiliar with 4e, I find 5e D&D pretty easy to work with for incorporating Warcraft feel.

Funny thing: This crap is actually imported from D&D, or rather "Warcraft RPG" which was a 3e OGL based.

Even with a human that tried to kill them it seems a stretch to me that they would join the faction with orcs, trolls, and undead. Particularly since the only one they were really on good terms with from what I remember of the Frozen Throne was Night Elves
Then again I never played Burning Crusade since I had long given up on WoW before then

That's how player character languages in DnD have always worked for obvious convenience reasons, though I never assumed that was universally true for all NPCs

belven motivation for joining horde was literally "horde needs pretty race to balance the number of alliance players". It worked.

Obviously, but I assumed they pulled something out of their ass like the Alliance not letting them be edgy enough or something

MILF

Alliance wouldn't take them because they were addicted to fel. Horde took them because Thrall (still Warchief at the time) was all, "Oh my people know the pain of fel addiction let us help these elves."