Tabletop Elemental Wheel

does anyone else think that ink kinda stretches its applications?

nah. I do likes me that binary tho
cool. wait until reddit ruin it all for us.

Personally, I think that Psion, Force and Binary kinda share too many aspects. That, and Psion & Haze

lol. does sperg need some attention?

Nope. but sperg or not, this is Veeky Forums. wez all specz in da threadz here.
fuck off flatscan

why does he have both lightning AND plasma? isn't that redundant?

read the sidecircles. the explanation is in them. your question is dumb

hi. OP here. I'd thank you for telling him to fuck off, but please don't feed the troll

Elemental powers are lame

op hre! yeah, but the setting's pure elemental combat, as in, like an avatar plus. so idon't have a real choice. its what my friends want to play!

when I see me that blood eleent I start think about deadman wonderland!

Hey you're not Waq! stop using his name!

chill man, he's the archivist for the thread. theyre just trying to get him to pay attention to his name

I'd humbly request that you don't. I already have to deal with one nutmunch advertising on the other threads. please stop calling false alarms. everyone's post shall eventual get recorded. so stop worrying. this includes op. stop or the mods will ban me.

sorry waq, as OP I apologize. I can't promises the others will stop, but I will.

finefine. so long as you aren't nametagging me over dumb shit. its bad enough that people namefagg me for the giggles.
regardless, stop derailing the convo or the mods'll blam us

wtf is nametagging? sure you didn't typo?

motherfucker you know what it is.

alright guys, leave him alone or he won't archive the convo. or worse, the mods'll come

I likes the psionic element. that way I can use my autism superpowers

I demand the power of heart, that way I can be a gay captain plane!

Imma do light and lightning element.
DEUS VULT HEATHENS!

I prefer keeping things simple.

Fire/Water/Earth/Air, Ice is literally water so stop making that its own thing

Dark/Light (with maybe Death/Life as subcategories, although I'll concede that's a tricky assignment)

-----

MAYBE Tech and Magic as their own "elements", although I'd prefer keeping them as consumers of existing elements and not their own.

No Time, no Aether, no weird inter-dimensional shit.

I'm pretty sure that's from funnyjunk. careful about swiping that stuff man. not all threads are going to be as tolerant as this one
capsticked christ learn to spellcheck. but ill admit that was funny.
also, discussion contribution seeing as how I've apparently drafted as the resident archivist, I have to wonder if there might be more elements from this FB guy later, like Zen or Flesh or something

To be fair, I think the guy meant for ice to mean anything that causes cold, like thermal entropy (as it says) or liquid nitrogen. they'res also silicoid 'ice' that happens in space, basically crystal that eat thermal energy. I might be overthinking it though.

I kinda agree w/ the first user tho. isn't ice redundant?

If I might interject, I think that Ice is fine provided that it meets the specifications defined by Nerdman earlier. If not, the first user does have a point.

Yo OP found this guy on FB right? why cant I find him?

I dunno. but I hope OP didn't take this from some private post or something. that'd be shitty

Also, it should be obvious by now, but I'd choose binary for my element! :)

antimatter element is da bomb!

So are we all just punning the thread away?

>8. Gleam (Fallout/Fission)-
>22. Candy (Drugs/Stimulants/Medicine/)-
>24. Binary (Cybermatter/Digital/Physicode)-
>35. Antimatter (Explosions!)-
Sounds like an element system for a modern or postapoc fantasy setting, not so much medieval fantasy proper.

That's about how I like to do it too, personally. My preferred approach rolls light and dark stuff into the base 4 as sub-aspects, like so:

>Earth: Soil, stone, metal, dryness, gravity, immutability, order
>>Garden (Light Earth): Fertility, growth, sustenance, nurturing
>>Underworld (Dark Earth): Death, depravity, darkness

>Water: Physical water, ice, cold, fluidity, passivity, calm
>>Wellspring (Light/Water): Healing, purification, genesis
>>Abyss (Dark/Water): Terror, despair, oblivion

>Air: Wind, lightning, swiftness, spontaneity, transience, levity (both in the sense of physical lightness/floating and lightness of mood)
>>Heavens (Light Air): Beauty, wonder, fate
>>Miasma (Dark Air): Pestilence, turmoil, corruption (including illusion, by way of corruption of truth)

>Fire: Heat, flame, forcefulness, passion, innovation, purgation
>>Sun (Light Fire): Warmth, light, glory, hope
>>Perdition (Dark Fire): Destruction, suffering, hatred

Organic Stone? Ash and coal are bone elemental?
How is magma plasma?

Ultimately, I fail to see the purpose of this wheel. Elements are about how they interact with each other, not how exactly you can categorize them. There's nothing here that really relates each element to the other whether by opposites or whatever other concept.

I like doing this too. Mine:

Element, Positive, Negative

Earth, Life, Death
Water, Blood, Ice
Fire, Light, Smoke
Wind, Lightning, Dust

magma= superheated state of solid matter. ergo plasma

Yeah, my campaign has a bit of anachronism. if it doesn't work i'll just drop some of the elements.

Yo does anyone else here like the mirror/shadow reflection element? I haven't seen someone make the connection before.

But that system only applies to hermetic alchemy and the Eastern wheels. i think its fairly fairly obvious that the guy wasn't going for that

if that's his elemental wheel, is so fucked up, death isnt on the opposite side of life, what the fuck, not even dark/light

i think the idea with spirit is that its supposed to allow you to influence both life and death. i could be wrong though. regardless,you seem to be thinking in terms of the Magic Card game wheel. That's not the only standard to judge it by you know?

I never understood the dichotomy between life/light and death/dark.

Light and Death are not mutually exclusive and fundementally cannot exist without each other. You'll find shadows during the day and the stars/moon provides illumination at night.

Also, death isn't really the opposite of life, merely another state of being. The circle of life converts dead things into nutrients that allow new things to live, so it makes no sense for them to be mutually exclusive to one another when they need each other to exist.

hi, OP here. you have a point, unless he was talking about the image. guys, the image is NOT the wheel, as I said here

herehere. i think 54903114's got the point

im talking about the wheel guys, the image, not the ritten part, design wise, when you make stuff like this the oposite side either compliments the other or is a total opposite

Written*

oh no worries. i think most everyone agrees that image wheel is a massive dungheep, they were just confused what you were talking about.

I do. i never made that connection until now

Personally I think if the guy was trying to go for a mixture of irl, metaphysical, and symbolic applications then he succeed to a degree. not entirely, but enough that i have to respect the though put into it. i can't wait to see what else he adds to the list

I'm glad to see that the thread has returned to actual discussion.

I like the 'Noctis' name for Star/Moon Element. I also like that the guy put the two together, considering that their mechanics are pretty similar.

I'm speaking from a mechanical standpoint. Unless you've got a system set up for how the elements interact with each other, you may as well use the periodic table for your magic.

plasma is more like the superheated state of gaseous matter.

water is more like magma than plasma is to magma.

This is shit. There's next to no thematic consistency to any of it, it's just a bunch of words slapped on a wheel. The placements are haphazard and the associated aspects random (when they're not just a physical extension of the element). Why is ice adjacent to life? And why is ice empathy? If opposing elements are opposite, why is earth unopposed and ice opposed by air? The fuck does ice have to do with "aura"? The fuck does time have to do with law? Why are ice and life eternal? Whole thing is a clusterfuck, an exercise in word association that will beguile the easily impressed because someone bothered to put it on a wheel. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that the wheel structure is a bizarre choice considering there doesn't appear to be any notable circular progession or symmetry. This is like a cargo cult; the author saw someone else do things like this (elements go in a circle, right? Elements are associated with aspects, right?) and tried to imitate those things with no understanding of the original reasons those things were done.

0/10, would not homebrew.

Hey numbnuts. We've all already had this discussion. The image pic is NOT the wheel thats being discussed. pay fucking attention

actually friend, plasma is its own state. any form of superheated matter can suffice for its criteria

*friends
goddamn typos

maybe you should reed this guy's post. i kinda agree

Why even post the wheel then?

Regardless, that text isn't better. I won't comment on the ordering/adjacencies, because it hasn't been stated if this is a wheel or a list, but the choices for element are super arbitrary. Feels like they just tossed down everything they could think of for the sake of having more stuff. Candy is a fundamental force of the universe, really? Why is there Gleam AND Light? Bone is explicitly listed as organic stone, which means it's already covered by stone + life. Fucking Textile, are you serious? How the fuck do you have an element for things obviously (even to the ancient world) made of other things? Might as well just look around the room and pick the first object you see to be be an element.

no I disagree even on that point.

the key term here is symbolic APPLICATION, and I don't see it being applied as a religion, language, or zen lifestyle. There's just nothing that gets done with it beyond "defining" the world into set categories.

Gleam=fallout=radiated matter, Light conversely = radial energy, Textile=metaphysical concept of artificis, candy= medecine/stimulants/etc likely REPRESENTED by candy, bone/organic stone= carbonate stone, while sandstone would = silicoid stone.
this is easy shit to get man.

Do you know what an element is? Because it's not a meaningless word. It's not just a type of magic or something. If something can be broke down into other building blocks, it's not an element.

In a pure physiomaterial sense? sure.
But ephemerally speaking, everything can eventually be broken down into something else in a process of constant loop. its the basis of the infinatum mandate of metaphysiology, which in turn is how proper metaphysicists avoid getting into rabbit hole debates.
t;dr- you're both nitpicking guys. either bring concrete criticism of eachother's points or stop before you end up starting a cyclical argument.

a good example of such a debate, before anyone asks, would be things like- does/doesn't god exist, can the universe truly end if its infinitely expanding, can entropy exist without the potential for reverse entropy, etc.

Except that's bullshit, this is literally what people mean when they talk about the elements - the fundamental building blocks of reality. That's what distinguishes an element from a category. The classical four/five elements aren't some arbitrary designation of important things, they were a proposal of what the actual world was made of.

well, its not really friend, because just because they don't have any explicit meaning to you doesn't mean the 'lements' don't have meaning to the guy who created them. the main issue with your argument is that we cant attribute a value of meaning to it until we get input from the creator. now if they were to release the notes, your premise would probably have a strong foundation, but right now, anyone's ascription of meaning is conjecture. right, the discussion is talking about potential applications.

*right now
fucking typos fml

The fuck are you talking about? These were posted for discussion and discuss them I have. Your response is just a bunch of fluff about "you don't know for sure what the author is thinking" and no fucking shit. When you're criticizing or discussing something you don't hold back on things that are wrong or bad because the author might have had a better idea than he wrote down, you fucking say it. And yes I can very well read meaning into a word that is not only a very real word but also a very common word in fantasy. If you don't want people to mistake your special snowflake stuff for elements, don't call them that! Alternatively, if you've been huffing paint and playing JRPGs for so long you can no longer conceive of a magic category not called elements, include a note explaining what they are.

And in any case, no one owes the author shit.

So you dislike any system that has elements not based on quarks?

What if elements are used to classign types of energy or auras? What if in this universe the 'building blocks' really ARE these things?

It's fantasy nigger, the whole point is that the building blocks can be those things. All of my criticisms are from that perspective, because from that perspective some decisions don't make any goddamn sense.

The fuck am I talking about, the fuck are you talking about? I never said anything about owing the creator anything. what I said was that we're basically taking blind shots in the dark until we had input from him, those of us who don't want to get into what the earlier user called a 'rabbit hole debate'.
fuck me I guess for trying to be diplomatic, but fuck you for bringing in pointless hostility and derailing the conversation.

don't bring your /pol/lack lingo into the discussion flamefag. Veeky Forums is apolitical. either be civil or get mobbed.
and both of you cool off. you're getting into personal territory here

OP here. either stick on track with discussion or get ganked. criticism is fine, but delving esotericism is dumb and leads to flamebait. stick to talking about applications. I WILL bring in the mods if need be.
I don't think the mods endorse impersonation.

reddit pls go

THANK YOU!
Now, back on discussion talk, is anyone else curious about the applications of vortex? like does it take a clusterfuck of different elements and mixes them, which causes the vortex to generate? I kinda like that idea.

>implying you have the ability to drag mods anywhere
either you've got personal connections to the mods and Veeky Forums is worse of than I thought, or you are a naive motherfucker who refuses to debate with anyone. You'd rather other people defend you while you swoop in to shut things down when things devolve to look good.

>sees same enemy everywhere
the fuck are you talking about? I was talking to all of you little assholes. that discourse was getting right cancerous.

Also, I'm not (). You seem to keep on making that mistake with other folk too.

Regardless, grow the fuck up. some people disagreed with you, and when another person (, who is also not me) tried to diffuse the situation and divert the conversation in a constructive direction, albeit with horrible grammar, you lashed out.

Admittedly, yes, some people ganged up on you, and that was a shit thing to do, but you didn't help matters with your hostile attitude and language.

In the end, mistakes on all sides were made, but you're the one little cuntnugget that's still going on about it. either drop it and move on, start posing legitimate inquiries (ex- Quantum element, how does that not overlap with Dimension), or take your blood moon bitchfest elsewhere.

>sees same enemy everywhere
same to you, I'm not any of those guys.

I didn't mean that you were the same as , but agreeing that the best thing to do is threaten to tattle on non-existent mods is horribly childish.

Trying to diffuse the situation is fine, but I'm still waiting on OP here to weigh in on what he thinks about "application" at all, with regards to such a hodgepodge element wheel. There's a limit to what one can accomplish by speaking for another, and you're giving him too much credit.

and I'm still waiting for someone to answer me vis a vis bone elements-organic stone.

OPanon here. I didn't create the wheel, but I don't mind the bone element. I figure it might need a different name or something, and I'm curious if it's really just 'bone', but the guy hadn't posted much more.
I think he accidently posted it as public convo and never recognized it, so I didn't feel comfortable contacting him to ask questions.
As for your critique, I can see merit to it. no contest on that. I just don't feel strongly about it is all.
As for the mods, I was a mod, so I have a few friends, so no worries, no nebulous corruption/conspiracy here on Veeky Forums.
calm down dude, situation diffused.

>want to discuss things
>doesn't feel strongly one way or another
fine, guess I'll just rant about bones

From what I can see, the creator probably intended for Bone element to refer to fangs, claws, and other organic structures that living creatures use as weapons, armor, and tools. But "organic stone" is "stones that have carbon in them". That's coal, ash, maybe even plastic.

It would be more accurate to use something to refer to protein or keratin.

My main experience with an "element wheel" has been MTG and Avatar: The Last Airbender. Both of which use it to explain ease of understanding magic outside one's school and enemy/ally elements.

With so many categories, why is it a wheel?
Does that level of granularity help or hinder mechanics?
Does that level of granularity help or hinder lore?
What do I get for choosing Fire instead of Magma or Smog? What do I lose?

the answer to that is that the OP doesn't care and the actual creator of the wheel was never here.

Then whats the point of any of this?

that's what I asked halfway up the thread.

...

8 elements on a wheel, I don't have an image but they are:
>Fire
>Metal/magnetism
>Earth/ground/rock
>Plants
>Water
>Ice
>Air
>Electricity

These 8 on a wheel with light/darkness being one element in the middle. Works for most of my needs.

>this entire thread
>96 posts
>14 posters
is this just one incredibly autistic samefag?
what the fuck is even happening here