Stat me Veeky Forums

It doesn't matter when it's Arcturian, baby!

Originally:
Alzheimer/10
Currently:
Forgotten/10

Oh the irony.

>he didn't read the original script
>he hasn't paid attention to animal behavior in general

You completely missed the part where the humans wanted to negotiate but Jake completely forgot to do his job and start negotiations.

absolutelly-dead-as-the-planet-he-is-on-is-gonna-get-glassed-from-orbit-when-the-humans-return-in-a-decade-or-so/10

>coming from the people being mind-controlled by their own planet.
Does the existance of internet and smartphones mean that humanity is being mindcontrolled?

Actually, I wonder what kind of Shitposts the Na'vi get up to with their network trees when they're bored. Also I wonder if the Scientists will try to use some tech to actually make a proper Planet Bio-Internet for the other tribes to shitpost at eachother with

>You completely missed the part where the humans wanted to negotiate
Only the group of them stationed there. genuinely wanted to negotiate and engage in relations with the Natives. All the RDA cared about was pillaging Pandora for all it was worth. They were absolutely *giddy* at the prospect of destroying the Tree Of Voices.

IT'd have broken down anyway, their life-tree integrated the unobtanium into itself.

The internet is different from the planet itself literally being sentient, directly controlling the growth of all life on it, and absorbing the minds of the dead

And their military advances only began after the negotiations fell flat due to their emissary turning traitor. They'd have gladly taken the path of least resistance if it was open to them.

The whole point is that conflict was inevitable. Humanity would always need more. Eventually they would have to kill the tree.

I'm pretty sure it says somewhere in the screenplay that Earth needs those superconductors to live

>betraying humanity for some dirty tau lookalike
-10/heresy

I don't even get why they didn't just tunnel.

The shit isn't at ground level so they must have had mining equipment.

>And their military advances only began after the negotiations fell flat due to their emissary turning traitor. They'd have gladly taken the path of least resistance if it was open to them.
Even if negotiations *did* go through, they would still kill the tree. Humanity had -completely- depleted all of Earth's natural resources, and reduced it to a husk that could only barely support life. Even if they did get the unobtanium that they wanted, they would need ever more in order to prevent themselves from going extinct. They would have to kill the tree sooner or later, ad then condemn Pandora to a slow and painful death, whilst they spacefarted away to go leech off of some other planet. In short, Humanity had become a complete and utter parasite.

I don't know... maybe a regular Na'vi warrior could be:
M 8 WS 4+ BS 4+ S 4 T 4 W 1 A 2 Ld 7 Sv -

If humanity as a whole intended to take the unobtainium by force no matter what, there'd be no movie because Pandora would just get nuked from orbit. The intervention in Pandora was very controversial in-universe

Because the script was written by bunch of hacks
Literally 20 people doctored this script and still couldn;t salvage the pure shitness of it

Not surprising. This is how any heterotroph works when not kept in check by predation, low birthrates, and lack of technology.

Even now, livestock can clear entire swaths of a continent of vegetation in large enough numbers.

The fact is that any species which must consume resources to survive will consume those resources nonstop until stopped by an outside force. This is how all animals WORK. The only way to keep them from depleting their environments entirely is to kill them in large enough numbers to keep the population stable. It is as true of penguins, lions, grasshoppers, and bears as it is of humans or cows. Why do you think locusts are considered an apocalyptic plague?

All life does this. This is the most natural course of action for a being to take. Living beings have no sense of restraint. Even plants will gladly suck up all the nutrients in their soil. Do you know what stops them?

They DIE. They die in such great numbers that there aren't enough of them to permanently damage the ecosystem.

Humanity is just what all life becomes when it ceases to roll over and die in the slightest breeze.

You know, I think the only reason why Pandora doesn't become like Humanity is simply because either Eywa can produce infinite resources without end, or she keeps a tight grip on her children and prevents them from growing unchecked.

Retarded movie, James Cameron has fallen from "Aliens" greatness.

Statted for Risus:

Human Who Wants an Alien's Body 2
Big Guy for Blue 3
Convinced he's the Protagonist 4
Actually a Dumbass Just Along for the Ride 1

> alien pussy is lame but half of Veeky Forums would kill for 2D/furry/boipussy

>alien pussy is lame

It most certainly is not! That other guy's just super gay, is all.

my wife

Earth would always need more and eventually not get what it needs. Unlike Pandora.

Pandora's resources are limited, because, you know, it has limited amount of matter (which grows a little because it absorbs star's energy but thats beside the point.
The second is the only option. Navi's make first mating in Eywa's presence, she definetly controls their reproduction.

Eh, no where as bad as Scott Ridley has.

large humanoid
str 20+
dex 20+

they have carbon fiber bones too, but dunno what to do with that

The thing that bothers me the most is that the humans didn't have artillery, and if they did have it they didn't use it when it could've won the conflict in a few hours.

Only so much you can do with "Humans bad to blue Native American stand-ins"

Jake had no way of knowing the negotiations were doomed to failure, he still fucked up.

He turned a horror movie into a war movie in Aliens.
A Fan-fucking-tastic war movie, but a war movie.

The good new is that they literally come with a readily installed mind-control port.

Seriously, this bothers me to no end. The humans have the technology and the aliens are certainly useful. The Na'vi should have become a population of enslaved drones.

>implying the humans can into that level of biotechnology

Gaia's not some otherworldly god, it's a colossal biocomputer/brain and Pandora is its laboratory.

>implying the humans can into that level of biotechnology

Dude. They can clone Na'vi and used them as possessed bodies. The humans have the biotechnology.

If they were half competent and decently written, they would have built a small mind-control plug module and just used the natives as workforce. After all, they are bigger, stronger, and can freely breath the atmosphere. Also they are aliens, and there are no human rights for aliens, dummy.

Cloning is not the same as complex bioengineering. We can clone shit right now. The only advanced thing the humans are using is the neural uplink device that lets them stuff a human's mind into the empty brain of the Navi clone. Pretty nifty, but not on the same level as what Eywa or whatever the fuck its name was.

It needed them for building trains or some shit between the giant habitat domes.

Why they didn't just bomb them from orbit I am not sure.

Didn't they say they planned a trilogy? Whatever happened to that?

I don't think you know what you're talking about or understand the issues at hand here.

If humanity can dump a human brain into a Na'vi's brain, then they have at least a moderate understanding of the inner working of a Na'vi's brain. This is a fact.

Additionally, the Na'vi are literally built with a mind-control IO port. This IO port can be used to command animals and to merge minds or whatever, but it also represents a huge security risk and an opportunity.

Building a small module that plugs into that IO port is order of magnitudes easier than dumping an entire human brain inside. All the parts are in place. You just need to hack a little.

They spent billions of dollaridoos into a biotech project of cloned human ambassadors (!) when they could have spent far less into a small mass produced compliance module.

>Gaia's not some otherworldly god, it's a colossal biocomputer/brain and Pandora is its laboratory.
It's actually heavily implied that Eywa is in fact, a full-blown deity, especially near the end of the film.

>Building a small module that plugs into that IO port is order of magnitudes easier than dumping an entire human brain inside.

This part doesn't follow.

Hooking a human mind up to a Na'vi brain stem doesn't require that you understand the whole of Na'vi physiology, just enough to hook up motor control and incoming sensory data to your well-understood human side. And you can fake a lot of the sensory parts with various implants - can't figure out how the Na'vi visual cortex works?
Fuck it, plant some cameras inside the eyeballs and call it a day.

Because Hollywood doesn't listen to military advisors, they run entirely off rule of cool.

Jesus it already looks fake

So you guys totally missed the part where there was no war declared, and the corporation had serious PR problems that prevented just lighting up the planet's natives?

They'd have needed a near-perfect understanding of Na'vi genetics to hybridize them with a fucking alien species. The avatars are made by literally creating a custom-made Na'vi/human hybrid, not just cloning a Na'vi and broadcasting a human consciousness to it.

Then that's kind of a fuckup in the writing. Probably why I didn't remember them saying that, as I try to ignore shit that makes a movie dumber.

Why did the robots stuff humans into pods in the Matrix again? Ahh, forget it, who cares.

Weren't they using bioelectricity to power themselves?

I've heard that the original idea was that they were using the humans' brains for essentially cloud computing. Allegedly, they switched to the battery idea because it was easier to understand.

it's the whole reason that they had to use jake, he was a twin to the scientist/ambassador that the avatar was made for

Honest question, why is it that every one gets triggered by the mere mention of this movie? Practically everywhere I go, I find artists REEEEEEEing about "how this oviedo sucks because of x", or how "this is stupid for x reason", and I am genuinely starting to wonder if it's not just because this movie paints Mankind in a bad light that people get so pissy about it.

> I am genuinely starting to wonder if it's not just because this movie paints Mankind in a bad light that people get so pissy about it.
That's part of it, yes. It paints many of its human characters as mustache-twirling, greedy, incompetent, one-dimensional villainous caricatures when contrasted to the relatively fleshed out Na'vi who are spiritually, physically and morally superior. The only ones that aren't are also the ones who become Na'vi by the end of the movie. It doesn't help that it's essentially a shittier sci-fi version of Dances with Wolves that got hyped to hell and back for its super-expensive special effects that are already looking dated.

It's not the message as much as it is the delivery. Too many of the actions meant to carry the Pocahontas-in-SPACE plot make no sense for any character with the role or position they have to take. The Na'vi are only "better" because their planet is directly controlling the ideas they are allowed to have, people who are supposed to be on the forefront of humanity's forays into space for resources are somehow idiots unless they sympathize with the aliens, and somehow a corporation of this size is making use of government employees (soldiers) but reports to no government officials at any point during the expedition.

Also, why didn't Eywa just throw the humans off the planet when she first got the chance? Did she need to wait for enough sympathizers to start a rebellion from within, or did she just not feel like it?

It might be that this appears so while actually its just a vocal minority disliking the film so much and majority not bothered enough to defend it. There was an active fan group when movie came out but the hype died or they commited suicide/secluded themselves into closed forums or something.
I actually like the film, despite it having some stupidity. It had some geniune positive emotions.
Can't compare to the majority of movies coming out now. Last 3 movies trailers I saw were all guns blazing "hot" chicks with nigger music.

I don't agree. It seems that human and na'vi characters have same mix of good/bad traits. Humans are mostly ok on personal level but the leadership are all dicks and sometimes manage to make life hell, turning masses into bloodthirsty mob (that one totally like real life). Na'vi are kinda same but leadership sometimes gets divine/biocomputer guidence so it doesn't always do wrong.

A lot (if not all) of it has to do with the fact that it was extremely popular on release. A lot of people were raving about it and then came down from the first viewing high, started noticing the flaws, and then got pissed off that it wasn't actually as good as they had initially thought.

It's basically the same deal as The Force Awakens.

>Also, why didn't Eywa just throw the humans off the planet when she first got the chance?

That's like saying "why didn't your body just get rid of cancer when it had the chance?".

Eywa is not conscious. It's like an organism that is mindless, but reached a stable equilibrium. Until that balance isn't shaken up too much, she just acts automatically.

That's my head canon anyway.

>Also, why didn't Eywa just throw the humans off the planet when she first got the chance? Did she need to wait for enough sympathizers to start a rebellion from within, or did she just not feel like it?
Presumably because she knew *some* of the humans were good, and wanted to genuinely exchange ideas with her children, instead of just exploiting them. Throwing them all off would just result in the RDA descending with even more greedy, power-hungry psychopaths.

>Eywa is not conscious. It's like an organism that is mindless, but reached a stable equilibrium. Until that balance isn't shaken up too much, she just acts automatically.
She seems conscious enough to respond when her people need her, and to come to their defense, but could just be a "coincidence". She also seems to be directly linked to all life on Pandora, which explains why the Natives can connect with them so easily.

This. Holy shit, eight years later the movie is just as prime rage fuel as it was when it came out.

Humans need unobtanium to maintain their civilization and instead of just dropping some rocks from space and mining from the crater they go through the trouble of the entire Avatar program, learn navi pyhsiology, language, customs, even build and maintain a school so they could establish relations and mutual understanding. They send an ex-marine to make them understand, humanity NEEDS the unobtanium to survive. But instead of doing his job he was recruited for, he goofs off and decides to do navi rites of manhood so he could woo the chieftains daughter. He just realizes "oh I had a fucking job" with a priceless look on his face when the deadline expires and the machinery is coming, expecting an empty village. Even after the war gets hot, the humans are just trying to scare off the navi instead of having a war of extermination. Because of "PR reasons" the humans are hamstrung from doing anything or deploying any hardware other than construction mechs and daisy cutters or conducting any real offensive but they STILL ran the fuck down the biggest navi war host ever assembled handily, until a literal divine intervention saved their asses. And that was just a little single mining camp and a single human starship.Hell, the ship is still in orbit and they have no way to touch it while it can rain down hellfire. Because hey, despite billions of humans possibly in danger, the navi tribes getting crippled and knowing its 100% the humans are coming back without any "PR reasons" to hold them back the movie touts this as a huge victory because the /pol/ cardboard cutout LITERAL race traitor got the pussy and the alien body at the end, making his treason complete.
No wonder it never got a sequel. It would be just the humans bombarding eywa from the cold, dead void of space until it submits and begs for mercy or until the biosphere is completely distrupted.

>Artillery
Okay, I'm sorry, but thats fucktarded. Now, I agree, the Navi should have been screwded over by any competant military force, but Artillery is not the awnser.

First off, it is clearly established that both the Navi and the Marines both had air power, and when you have Helicopters with Rockets, there is absolutely no need for any sort of ground based artillery, since Helicopters are faster and can fly.

Secondly, putting your Artillery on the ground makes it even worse, since that leaves you vulnerable to attacks from both the Navi and the subsequent Wildlife. They are faster, stronger, and can strike from the foilage fast enough to crush any sort of encampment.

Third, by the climax of thr movie, the entire fight was dictated mostly by Air combat, due to the terrain. The whole reason they had to use the shuttle to drop the bomb was because regular GPS was fucked by the electromagnetic fields of the floating moutains. Speaking of Terrain, good luck finding a suitable target for your artillery, since they literally only have one known target, the tree of life. Nobody knew where the Navi were hiding until literally the last second.

And the Navi still lost, because the Marines used their ranged advantage and fire power to put them down. Artillery would have done fuck all when the forest suddenly went "REEEE HUMIES GET OUT"

Its like asking a WW2 artillery team to guesstimate where a enemy building is in a giant moutain range, while 12ft indians and the entire Australian and African ecosystem tries to fuck you up, and their only guide is a shitter in a helicopter.

I don't even like Avatar, but artillery fags are just dumb.

Although, even if they did do that, imagine explaining to the people at home that your literally brainwashing the natives. Not good PR.

Not to mention that instally ticks the Navi off that you are a dire threat that must be killed, since you are brainwashing their people. So the attack on the tree is no surprise, and expect there to be just open-warfare.

Not to mention Elywe's own reaction would be to start sending all of the shit at you the moment it found out. And even worse, imagine for a moment what it could do if it got its hands on Humans. It doesn't even need the module, all it takes is sticking the human into some roots for Elywe to start hijacking the human brain.

>Humans need unobtanium to maintain their civilization and instead of just dropping some rocks from space and mining from the crater

>It would be just the humans bombarding eywa from the cold, dead void

Considering the first point of humans not doing exactly that, they might not do it even after the other means are out of question. Maybe humans really progressed morally and decided that it is better to die off then destroy other planet and civilization to survive?

Also you understimate the planet. Surely all natives' settlements can be wiped out from orbit, but who says that Eywa wouldn't try to bioengeneer some nasty responce to survive? We do not know it's nature and capabilities, the planet is surely not pure good force since it has predators and na'vi get sick and die. Maybe Eywa isn't the only part of it, maybe there is a war between 2 nature gods or more.

>A vengeful nature God with all the resources that the Human brain could provide on new tactics and warfare.
This will end well.

This movie was insultingly bad. The humans fight a land war because the navi would get BTFO otherwise. Not only a land war, but one with infantry and mechs with armor everywhere except protecting the pilot.

Have the humans forgotten how to use nukes? Where are the orbital bombardments from the giant spacecraft humans inevitably built?

Unobtanium is not organic, it's crystal. Just exterminatus the surface by guiding a single asteroid into an impact and then send in automated mining equipment to get the ore.

To be fair, we don't really know how badly earth needs Unobtainoum to survive. All we get is that it needs it to help sustain the overwhelming human population via the construction of Mag Trains.

And thats not even the reason they are there; the people in charge are clearly doing thus for profit. If it was so dam vital, why do they care for profits, or how much it goes per kilo? Not to mention that all the troops there were simply hired on, not Government.

I won't argue the fact that they could have glassed Pandora, that is entirely feasible. But by dropping a rock on it, your risking the possibility that the Unobtainoun could be destroyed or damaged. Your also eradicating all of the pharmaceuitical possibilities of the plant life, all of the possible biological advancements we could make, along with the fact that it might not even work;

Besides, honestly, who the fuck cares about Unobtainoum, when Pandora holds the key to Immortality itself. Just imagine if you could somehow recreate the mindswap that Jake experienced. When you can suddenly clone yourself into a bigger and better body ad infinitum, and live practically forever, who gives two shits about Earth?

Given the lack of advances in the face of several years of humans or literally any attempts to that end by the Na'vi or wildlife I don't think it can innovate, just respond to threats. Plus, given the situation you can just drop rocks on all the Trees of Souls and sever huge areas from its influence at a time.

>The planet begins releasing Acids into the air that melts plastic rebreathers
>Trees suddenly become Eucalyptse trees on steroids, exploding at the slightest movement
>Whole factories begin to be formed, as the planet tears itself apart to gather the minerals it desires. Fusions of machinery and animal life, perfectly fuses, started crawling out.
>The planet begins targeting humans, stealing all their memories, and than releasing them back into the population as agents.
>They trie to drop a nuke on it; the planet forms a Russian Fun Gun to shoot back

It was in the extended cut or some supplementary material, the fuck remembers that its required for running the fusion reactors powering human megacities. Also,governments are weak as shit, megacorps run everything.

>But by dropping a rock on it, your risking the possibility that the Unobtainoun could be destroyed or damaged.

Its a fucking mineral in the ground. It takes way less to completely distrupt the biosphere and start a mass extinction than damage rocks. A SINGLE asteroid on the other half of the moon could throw up enough debris in the atmosphere to plunge all those vibrant jungles into a nuclear winter.

>Maybe humans really progressed morally and decided that it is better to die off then destroy other planet and civilization to survive?

Spot the fucking cuck.

>Also you understimate the planet. Surely all natives' settlements can be wiped out from orbit, but who says that Eywa wouldn't try to bioengeneer some nasty responce to survive? We do not know it's nature and capabilities, the planet is surely not pure good force since it has predators and na'vi get sick and die. Maybe Eywa isn't the only part of it, maybe there is a war between 2 nature gods or more.

Or maybe it was a pig! The planet cant do shit aganist getting bombarded from space. just keep destroying those nerve cluster trees one by one until it surrenders or dies.

.>choosing planetary death over planetary genocide = raising another male's child and generally being used by others

I dunno, user, if you take karma and after-life into account it's pretty easy to see the optimal choice, the one without getting involved into a genocide of another civilization who are not completly shitty and monstrous. Especially given how my own death would come earlier that civilization's death and why should I care about a civilization that grown so retarded it isn't sustanable.

>Humans need unobtanium to maintain their civilization and instead of just dropping some rocks from space and mining from the crater
Or, you know.

Going and mining from the GIANT FUCKING UNOBTANIUM FILLED FLOATING MOUNTAINS.

Fuck the stupid tree, who needs it when there are mountainloads of it just waiting for somebody to come and tow them out of their magnetic field shit and mine them?

Instead they wasted tens of millions (hundreds?) of dollars on creating "Avatars" of cat people with some sort of super-wireless connection (just think about how fucking much sensory data we're talking about here, it's EVERYTHING, and it's over a flawless, seemingly unbreakable short of death wireless connection in real time with zero lag whatsoever and perfect control after about two minutes of getting used to it) and zero oversight (what, you can't just tap a video feed from the data that the stream is pulling in between avatar and host?), send an ex-marine in who proceeds to ignore his mission and chase cat-pussy with his new barbed schlong, and if they can do all that with the Avatars and understand the physiology that well... yeah, it's been argued already. They know that much about the Avatars, they can already remote-control them without trouble, it's not a huge jump to straight up enslave them or at least force them to fuck off to somewhere else on the planet.

Not to mention that the sheer cost of unobtanium means it's not worth the effort against something as basic as solar power or nuclear fusion.

>They are faster, stronger, and can strike from the foilage fast enough to crush any sort of encampment.
Actually, biology as it applies to the creatures of Pandora and their lack of a throat or similar means that if they run through a muddy ditch, there's a very real chance that their chest-nostrils will intake dirt and mud and fuck up their lungs, leading to respiratory problems followed by death.

1 point in smurf
1 point in faggotry
3 points in hippie-dippie bullshit

You sure? Because 2009 was 8 years ago

what is James Cameron doing right now

I only care about Humans. Xenos have no rights.

Unobtanium is a room temperature supercobducter.

Working on Avatar sequels.

Cocaine. Probably on a boat.

Cause nothing in the movie makes any sense if you think about it. Seriously, NOTHING. The entire movie just falls apart like a pile of dry dog turd.

Why the humans didnt mine unobtanium somehere else? Why no one told the navi the humans just want their funky rocks and dont want to kill them? Why jake and the navi think antagonizing someone who came through space and has untouchable assests in orbit is wise when all you have are sticks and animals? Why no one had any checks on control one the mission? Who the fuck cares about PR when the company should have perfect information control through space? Its not like the workers could upload their smartphone videos on the internet. Why humans on earth would particularly give a shit about it anyway? We are moving down thousands of humans and square miles of rainforest every day RIGHT NOW and no one is bothered?

The entire movie was just a stupid vehicle for a stupid green aesop, flavored with incompetence and treason.

I know youre trolling but choosing the survival of an alien race, an alien family and an alien civilization instead of your own its the very definition of being a cuck.

To me the stupidest part was how, after having invested considerable effort on creating the Avatars to interact with locals, they simply attack.
> "I like the smell of waste efforts in the morning."

Not attacking would be sunk cost fallacy.

Although, they should have at least tried to set a meeting up with Jake (or like, unplug him immediately and ask him WTF this whole shit is about).

>Being this oblivious about the joke

>I know youre trolling but choosing the survival of an alien race, an alien family and an alien civilization instead of your own its the very definition of being a cuck.
No, the definition of being a cuck is letting your girlfriend cheat on you. Even if we go into the metaphorical, Jake isn't really getting cucked out of anything, seeing as he gets pretty much everything he wants and doesn't share.

And that's where it ends, Jake gets what he wants, doesn't give a flying fuck about humanity and why should he? Besides, it's not even really his job to begin with, he just got shoved in there when they lost the original candidate.

Alien Covenant was good in my opinion, it only took the best of Prometheus (David).
What happened to competent military designers in the future? Those mechs are terrible, a Killa Kan is better designed than Cameron's stuff.
True, but it was an amazing genre shift that few directors could pull off successfully.

>Also, why didn't Eywa just throw the humans off the planet when she first got the chance?

I always headcannoned that Eywa didn't know shit about the humans since they weren't connected to her and she didn't want to take drastic action against something she knew nothing about.
Jake also convinces her to intervene by asking her to check Grace's memories of Earth and how absolutely fucked up it is, which makes Eywa act since she understands that the humans are a huge threat to herself

I was actually thinking about this not too long ago.
What would be the best system for playing a avatar game? Keep in mind you need to have rules for both essentially stone age society and weapons as well as modern and future society and warfare. Maybe even magic if you want to consider Eywa a magical deity.

also why is Neytiri so absolutely amazing?

Mate, who gives a fuck about artillery when you have almost total air superiority with fucking attack helicopters...
... and somehow get pwned, because the script was written by complete idiots.

I still have hopes that some day someone creates a fanfic of how the RDA returns to Pandora and beats the shit out of those aliens. There was one pretty good one, but it was never finished.

Now I imagine a scene where they create a Na'vi-wifi plug that just gets bolted on.