Why play a guy with a sharp stick?

>Want to do penguin sledding with me??
>I don't want to be avatar!
>I don't want to learn earth bending!
>I want to learn fire bending right now!
>wait, fire burns stuff?
>I don't want to learn fire bending!
>I don't want to fight the fire lord!
NG my left nut.

On second thought I'll change my opinion on Sokka being best character though.. Iroh was obviously best character. Sokka was the best of team Avatar.

>Toph

Bullshit

>Zuko

Double bullshit.

You have a point about Iroh, but what kind of retard do you have to be to think Toph is best character and Zuko is anything more than trash?

You have only yourself and your shitty choice of system to blame.

Zuko is edgy in a funny way, and also has a nice redemption arc. Also, Toph is a qt, and I will fight you IRL.
>Kid likes doing kid stuff
>Doesn't immediately accept the huge responsibility that fell upon him.
>He did learn his lesson about firebending
>Doesn't want to kill people, because of that big G in his alignment (which is kind of stupid, but whatever)
>Is generally a kind person, towards people and animals for no benefit of his, making him Good
>Is happy to follow rules and traditions, as long as they don't go against what is most prudent in the situation, making him Neutral on the law scale.

>only thinks Toph is best because he wants to fuck a little blind girl with family issues.

Why am I not surprised.

Level 1.

Do you also want to fuck kittens and puppies if you watch a video and find them cute?

Have you tried playing any actually good edition of D&D?

You know perfectly well that's a false equivalence Waifu fag.

Why play a dude who performs card tricks when you can play a hero who jumps over a mountain in one leap, throws spears from one continent to another cross the sea, punches so hard he breaks the celestial dome, etc?

>good edition of D&D
That's a trick question, isn't it? There are no good editions of DnD.

>DnD
>GOOD Edition

Haha... oh man, funny one, DnDrone.

But for serious, see

Aren't you projecting pretty hard there, my buddy? I bet it's you who wants to fuck a blind little girl with family issues.

When talking about DnD, there are good and bad editions
Obviously an apple will be better than an orange if you don't like citrus fruits

There are no "good" editions of DnD. The only reason anyone plays it because of pop cultural significance. Everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows it's bad, and anyone with three plays something else after their first few sessions with that steaming pile of dog vomit.

Yeah, well, what you just described isn't a martial, it's a wizard of some sort. Because martials are jsut dudes with big armor and pointy sticks, and wizards aren't just performers, they have actual magic on their side that CAN actually rend reality apart.

That's deflection, and that is a non argument and even if you won't admit it you know it is.

See

>that isn't a martial
In what weird universe that isn't a PC martial?

Conversely, shit with sprinkles is still shit, no matter what color or flavor the sprinkles are.

Martial is a guy with normal powers. Maybe he's the best there is among normal people. But if you give him superpowers, he becomes a caster.

Why has the whole 'caster v martial' shitposting thing gotten so much worse recently? Seems like a very dedicated group of trolls trying to 1 up how edgy they are being. Kind of pointless if you ask me, the caster v martial "debate" was closed years ago.

You're mistaking mundane for martial, they both start with m, that's it.

D&D and anime have truly destroyed a generation of role-players.

>magic is always better than no magic
across every potential story?

This, I'm so tired of magical girls flying around and nuking cities, turning dragons into pets and making liches their sex slaves

You can't close a discussion buy saying it's closed. You have to actually prove a point.
You're mistaking me for someone who cares about your crappy opinion.

These things come and go in waves. There is always some form of trending shit post thread that gets spammed, but they go away after a few months, only to see a few weak stragglers show up occasionally once their popularity has died down. Marshal v Caster will go away again in a few more weeks and something else will take it's place. That's just the way it works.

Because it's funnier to actually think problems through instead of le magic xD

Then you should probably get some players who aren't retards, because I have literally never had that problem.

At least it's not quest threads, amirite?

Yes.

>Sokka
>Literally the best example of the fighter archetype in a world of magic
He's the entire reason they won the war you dingus. He planned the final battle

Martial vs caster whining has been going on for years, if not for longer than Veeky Forums has been around

I don't know what the hell you're smoking that it's going to magically go away in a few weeks.

alright.

There once was a wizard and a knight who didn't like each other. Before the wizard could cast a spell the knight stabbed him in the chest with a sword and he died.

A story in which a martial beat a caster now exists.

How about in 40k where psykers are constantly tormented by visions of the hellish realm they draw their powers from and will likely end up as a daemonic portal unless killed/lobotomized?

It won't got away entirely, but the frequency of the threads will decrease. It's trending at the moment, but the trend will pass, and we will go back to maybe a thread every month or so rather than daily martial v caster threads.

Why the fuck did the wizard not have three layers of protections on him, and why did he not send a simulacrum instead of himself?

My country disagrees.

It's always been around, since caster and marital balance in DnD has never been achieved. It was balanced in 4e, and then 5e threw all that out the window and made Druid/Cleric/Wizard the best classes again.
The only way martials can compete is with busted multiclass options like Paladin/Bard, Paladin/Sorc, etc.

He did, martial just bypassed them due flexed muscles power, he also stabbed him so hard the simulacrum passed the curse of death to the original.

>You can't close a discussion buy saying it's closed. You have to actually prove a point.

Sure.

First you determine what kind of game/setting you want. Then, you can simply make it work.

You can either have casters or martials be balanced or not. It's up to you. Based on your incessant need to post about how shitty you think martials are, then you don't have to balance them in your group.

For those people who want to actually balance them, there are lots of options depending on the tone of the setting. For low magic, fighters are limited to normal human feats and casters have weak magic. Casting anything with energy like a fireball or lightning bolt would tire them out as much as the energy it would take from their bodies as it would take to actually conjure the energy themselves. Most magic is based on charms, hexes, tricks, and so on.

In high fantasy games, fighters get supernaturally strong either naturally (because the laws of physics in this world are different) or they can have weeaboo fighting powers which works just fine. Casters can also have a lot of power but fighters pack just as much.

Like I said, this has been a shut issue for years now, it is literally this easy. That is all.

/thread

whenever any company that has had even the smallest of fingers in the DnD pie releases something new, they come out of their rank and vile dens to once again sow discord

Tome of Battle was great in 3.5, I hope they release something like that for 5e to make martials playable.
It's pretty sad when multiclassing a Paladin into a Bard after like 2-6 levels of Paladin is better than 20 levels of Paladin.

Well put user.

>Why play a guy with a sharp stick?
People play Fighters because they don't have any creativity and just want to play themselves. And they don't have magic in real life. They don't have even average strength in real life either, but this doesn't occur to them.

The martial martialed so hard he punched through the Wizards magic. The martial was also wise enough to see that the decoy was a fake and went straight to the original. Any other dumb questions?

>But if you give him superpowers, he becomes a caster
That's where you're clearly wrong. What spells would Hercules or Conan be casting as he's punching Merlin's face in? Here's the thing everyone gets wrong, in a world with magic there's also "fantastic", which means a martial' s upper bound is proportionally above "normal life" so that they can "naturally" stand toe to toe with casters.
As for Hercules vs Merlin, it's actually a coin flip because they would both be level 20.
But here's the important part.
To say that two characters of equivalent level shouldn't be equivalent useful/awesome/powerful(within their 'function') is to concede poor game design and pack of understanding of how group games should be structured. If two people are at my table, the game shouldn't fellate one and shit on the other. Much less should some internet retard not only tell me that its good design/realistic while furiously masturbating over the lack of enjoyment player 2 has from his plat experience.
Thanks for playing.

And people play casters because they have no creativity and just want to play "themselves", and they don't have muscles or a work ethic in real life. They don't have above average intelligence in real life either, but this doesn't occur to them.

because well designed games have a thing called "balance"

>its another episode of "fags who have only read 3.5 criticising 5e"

yawn

5e carried over a decent number of 3.5's problems because 3aboos shit themselves over 4e

its these vague meme statements that keep these threads going

the only actually overpowered caster in 5e is a level 20 (twenty) druid due to infinite wildshapes

the only magic that exists in the setting of 'the knight and the wizard who didn't like each other' is the ability to blow confetti out of one's arse.

Wrong. From the first level, wizards have access to spells that trivialize every fight unless the DM completely works the encounter around the wizard, which is just as bad.
One sleep spell wins any encounter.
Once they get level 3 spells, nobody stands a chance.

wrong again
wizards have around 6 hitpoints at level 1 if they take high constitution

thats one stray arrow, sounds pretty balanced to me

Oh, not a sleep spell!
>multiple groups of enemies
>constructs
>undead
>any creature immune to magic
Wow, it's fucking nothing.

>It's another episode of "fags who think 5e fixed any of 3.5s problems blinding defending it."

*vomit*

not an argument

>Level 1 party fighting constructs and magic immune creatures
Undead are a possibility, but wizards have spells to just nuke them anyway.

Isn't this why the party is always out numbered unless they're fighting some big monster or Boss?

The Bard's pretty ridiculous, but in terms of actually being overpowered, the bar is much lower than in 3.5

In 3.5, the disparity between the Monk (the worst class) and the Cleric (arguably the best class, possibly the Druid, possibly the Wizard) was far more severe than the disparity between the Beastmaster Ranger (the worst class in 5e) and the Moon Druid. The Beastmaster is not a literal waste of time and space at the table compared to a Moon Druid, unlike a monk.

You're a fucking retard. You don't even need anything on this to make the Wizard in trouble. Sleep alone is easy to get around, you literally just need to drop enemies with health. Or spread them out. Or have them get into knife-fight range of the party so that they can't blanket cast.

You said ANY you dumb faggot. Tell me how a single sleep spell is getting you out of fighting 32 house cats.

...
question: Is Catnip a spell component for ANY spells a wizard would cast?
Because I may throw my players into this exact situation

What kind of a stupid faggot DM is going to make the party fight 32 house cats?

Only in shit campaigns, honey.

so you can be a stupid peasant with a stick who kills literal demigods that fuck reality with their minds

Because not every system makes magic infallible. Most systems make magic something that can be avoided, forced through, or just plain dangerous to use.

you mean they have 2 spells before they are out for the rest of the day.

the best "nuke" they have at that level is thunderwave which is a whole 2d8 of damage and a con save for half damage

how will barbarians ever recover who average 8 damage PER SWING

That actually sounds fucking hilarious.

ANY
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ENCOUNTER
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>>constructs
>>undead
>>any creature immune to magic
If you think this doesn't fuck martials too you're dumb
The other day I started a 3.5 game with some friends, precon, it had undead, we had to abandon the mission because Rogue dealt 0 damage, Bard couldn't do shit, Ranger same as rogue and the Fighter alone couldn't do shit. DR 5/slashing and piercing plus immune to precision damage and mind affecting effects is pretty hard to beat as a 1st level group

It does. I just don't see any DM doing that, especially when a wizard can just Thunderclap to kill all the cats

>WAAH muh personal experience with 3.5 means 5e sucks waaah

this is embarrassing at this point
dont post again

>any creature immune to magic
Jade Regent had a monster like that as first encounter, it had 3 attacks (bite, claw, claw or Ranseur, bite) and SR 15 I think, plus immune to mind affecting, charm and other shit, it also gave you penalties (-2 to every roll) on a succesful bite. It ate through our 5 men team. With the ranseur it literally killed in one hit our barbarian (dealt like 25 damage).

>what is fire
>what are environemntal kills
Do you seriously think the only way to beat an encounter is to throw dice at it? Jesus, no wonder you faggots think wizards are OP

Nigga read the spells you quote.

>cats have higher initiative
>50% chance that the cats go first
>wizard gets killed before the other 20 cats have even attacked yet

hmm yes wizards are a real problem
you basically dont even need a party

>what is fire
Something that doesn't deal more damage to undead and constructs? something that deals laughable damage at 1st level because you aren't rich to buy actual bombs? so be my guess, bring that 1d4 greek fire that literally costs half you initial money or 1 damage from a torch.
>Enviromental kills
1. Never ever seen a GM allowing stuff like that, and I played in 5 different countries, so is not a "is just your city brah"
2. Precon game, didn't have anything to help you in there, it was a cave with nothing but smooth walls

...

Despite claiming to be intelligent and able to work around the scenario the thing you have to realize about caster players is that they are mostly idiots who compensate for their inadequacies by telling themselves they are actually far more intelligent than others and that if they lived in a fantasy setting they would be the wizards. Their desperate attempt to prove that casters are better than martials is simply them projecting their real life issues with anyone who isn't a pathetic sad fat fuck up into the game. They see casters as themselves and martials as "chads" or whoever else it is makes them feel inferior, and just like in real life where they try to make themselves feel better by claiming to be more intelligent or otherwise superior even though they clearly are not, they insist that martials are inferior to casters in every way and can't possibly ever amount to everything. It's how they make themselves feel better about their lives and choices.

>thread about how martials are inferior to casters
>thread is full of casters arguing that they're actually balanced

Never change Veeky Forums

Try role playing in your fucking role playing game, you schlocky shit.

>neckbeards have no arguments and get btfo
>this is apparently a problem

>Sokka was the best non-bender character

FTY

>If I roleplay hard enough I'd create magical pits, barrels and spiked walls to use against my enemies. If I roleplay hard I would turn immune to charm effects monsters weak against them, that's the power of roleplaying.
No, the system is shit, that's it. We did the sensible thing, left that dungeon and leave it to people capable of dealing with that

I didn't imply it was a problem. I'm stating that I'm amused by the thread. If I wasn't amused, why would I ask Veeky Forums to never change?

Casters merely borrow their power, uplifted by gods or witchcraft. There is no legacy in magic that can't be overtaken or undone by the next bookish fool in a funny hat.

Any able bodied creature can perceive the greatness of a powerful martial, and so his legacy will always be far more lasting.

You've never lit a mummy on fire? Or ripped a rotting zombie's arms and lower jaw off and laughed as it tried to attack you? Or tricked a vampire into thinking its daybreak? Or thrown rice at a jiangshi? Or fed a goat to a chupacabra? Taken a picture of big foot? Given Frankenstein's monster an existential crisis?
Try harder.

Yeah, Sokka was fucking awesome. HE WAS WANG FIRE