Malifaux General

Keep in mind that it works both ways, so your opponent can't score for the strategy by easily killing your summoned models. It makes summoning less of a viability in some ways. I suppose the optimal thing to do would be to use summoned models as meat shields for hired models.

*less of a liability

well I guess I wanted to try out grown up dreamer anyway so the summonerf doesn't hurt too much

The Dreamer should be fine. You are going to have some models like Teddies, a Doppleganger, and the Widow Weaver hanging out while the twins regen and take the brunt of the damage. Chompy counts as 10 rocks which is pretty nice. It's just that you can't shoot Madnesses across the board to claim a quarter anymore, so focusing less on summoning certainly won't hurt.

Man, Big Jake is useless in GG18 isn't he?

I am pretty sure that they will have to FAQ/Errata him if counting by stones stays. Same with the Tanuki for that matter. It won't be a huge issue as the January errata will coincide with the release of the final GG 2018 anyways.

Firstly, Chompy is summoned, so no dice. Secondly, he has a cost. His cost I'd just 0. Masters are the only models without a SS cost.

Saw this post on the offical forums and it basically mirrors my thoughts on the summoning change
Summoning is a wide spread and fundamental mechanic in Malifaux. All factions, to a greater and lesser, extent, have it. It is used for many and various effects, from 'pure' summoning a la Nicodem, to shape-shifting with Myranda, to falling off a horse as seen in McCabe.

In fact, it covers SUCH a wide variety of models, rules and interactions that I would be very careful about implementing a pretty fundamental change like this to the scoring mechanics of the game. It will have enormous consequences for every model in the game that summons, each of which has been carefully playtested with the current system in place.

I would humbly suggest that if the game developers want to re-examine the summoning mechanic the best time to do it would be during a wider rules update (M2.5e or M3e) so that its applied a bit more holistically.

Would Ours/Interference work better using the Collect the Bounty points system?

Doesn't completely invalidate summoning, but makes spamming Minions less valuable.

Models with a cost of 0 count as 10, though you are right about summoning. That would work out if you were using Huggy.

No, models without a Soulstone cost count as 10. 0 cost models have a soulstone cost.

>11: Vendetta
FUCK YEAH!
Best scheme makes a triumphant return.
The narrative of this scheme is what initially sold me on Malifaux as my primary game, rather than an occasional thing.

A lot of these seem to be .far. more work than they are worth though.
Challenge and Hold Up Their Forces are silly easy to deny for most.
Smuggled has been trashed already.
I do quite like Buried Treasure as a LYM-replacement though, to stop the irritating Turn 5 bumrush of scheme runners.
Seems dangerously easy to make it completely impossible just by keeping a backfield sweeper or two though. I guess it puts Raptors firmly back in the free VP(-blocking) slot.

Text says 'without a cost', not 'costing 0ss'.
You may well be right, but that definitely needs clearing up.

>Text says 'without a cost', not 'costing 0ss'.
>You may well be right, but that definitely needs clearing up.
I realize that I was wrong about that. I can understand that they don't want to give guys like Jakob and Viktoria of Ashes an immediate advantage.

Going back to the last thread, have the upgrades helped Brewmaster? Will Tri-Chi models in general be more useful.

>these fucking birds
I hate flying models like this. I've still got these and Collete's pigeons off bases because I don't want to deal with them
But practiced production/raptors seems too good to pass up

>But practiced production/raptors seems too good to pass up
Bad news bud - it doesn't work any more.
The last Errata changed PP to "significant only" for teh model to drop it off.

Oh shit.
I fucking hate erratas.

Well, I guess that means I don't have to bother with them which is kind of a relief. They don't seem like they'd do much else except maybe tie up models in the back lines on turn two. Maybe that's a lot better than I give it credit for since I'm not good at the game.
I still need to find an alternate model for Howard Langston. And maybe Joss. Joss isn't too ugly but I got mine in a trade and the quality was fucked up because the guy I traded with was shit at modeling.

Are you not happy with Miss Step, the original Steamborg Executioner, or Alexi Sokolov? I guess you can always use another manufacturer's figures like Infamy Game's, or try the TTB character kits if you want something with mechanical limbs that is tournament legal.

Yeah, I've mentioned my dislike for the awkward half robot spider half person look that the two Langston models have. Also the Blessed of December. That's an ugly model that I'll need to find an alternate of.
I have the original models, so I'd be fine using other game's models as stand-ins.

>That's an ugly model that I'll need to find an alternate of.
How do you feel about Neverborn-ish nightmare rabbits in hats?
Tortoise and Hare box

Not a fan of that look either; the turtle is kind of neat, but I'd prefer the ghost japanese armor over it, and the rabit's got too much of that 'quirky spooky nightmare' look that I'm not big in. Which is why I avoided Malifaux 1E.

No spider? That will be harder then.

Pity. I love the 1e look and I try to paint my new stuff to avoid the all gritty and serious current scheme it's awesome from the design aspect because it can be painted very quickly to high standard, so kudos to Wyrd I guess

Greenstuffing said hare to give him an ushanka (heh) hat and a quilted or fur vest to make him look less Alice in Wonderland and more Raspy crew - good idea? bad idea?

>A summoning focused crew will still add up to 50 rocks
Yeah, but summing crews send the give up a lot in pretty much every other department in order to summon and be balanced, unless you're Somer.

Nico for example takes between 9-21 ss in corpse generating support models.

>Which is why I avoided Malifaux 1E
I feel the opposite. I miss the is art. The new stuff feels to Saturday Morning Cartoon for me.

OK, he's got sleeves so scratch the vest idea.
Version 2.0 is greatcoat, for maximum Soviet murderhobo look.

OK scratch both ideas, apparently someone at Wyrd had a brainfart and they're sold already glued so fuck it.

Looking at the model it looks like it should be fairly easy to turn the jacket is a great coat. The hat shouldn't be too hard either.

Yeah but I already got triggered by merely thinking about correcting some assembly worker's shitty job, so nah, not worth my nerves.

>Yeah but I already got triggered by merely thinking about correcting some assembly worker's shitty job, so nah, not worth my nerves.
My attitude towards ToS models in a nutshell.

Then just don't take that summoning engine. Also with all the free passive corpses he can get between Asura, Kentaroi(sp?), and the Emissary that are all good even outside of their corpse generation this doesn't seem like a problem.

That's strange, I found the old stuff to be too cartoony. I like the new stuff's realistic proportions (as opposed to typical mini's heroic style with huge heads and huge hands) and more serious tone.

Johan would like a word with you.

He is more there as a stylized figure rather than chunky all over because of casting limitations. The fact that he looks as he does works because most other models are normal, letting him stand out.

Yeah, he's pretty out there. Looking at his old model, they don't even look to be even close to the same type of character. The only similarity is that they're both holding a hammer.
Old model reminds me of 1990s GW stuff, though.

I find it kind of impressive how different metal and plastic Taelor look.

Who is the best Malifu?

Molly

Canonically a Lilitu would be the best fuck.

If we I flip 'Ours', the new interference I'm not even going to bother getting a summoner out of my case, I'm just going to unpack Reva instead and blow the other crew off the table before they can score.

If they want use all to play non summoners they can expect more Reva, pretty simple.

Do Monks of High River see play?

Ahahahahaha ahahaah ahaha ha

The old models seemed like they suffered from the limitations of the molds.

I mostly mean the new art.

The Vik's.
Everyone wants to fuck twins.

But her leather daddy twin would want and share her orgasm

I'd rather be the one with the whip, personally..

No, but I don't think they are terrible models.
They are just the worst option at that cost because 10T have greatminions.

Not really. One of his upgrades increases poison damage to 3 in his aura, and you can discard it to summon Wesley

The other upgrade gives Brewski a mask when targetting poisoned models and gives him a pulse that forces (for some reason) a Wk duel or suffer 2 damage.

Both are alright and decent, but not really big in the large scheme of things.

They wouldn't be hired at 5 SS. Even at 4 SS they'd face some tough competition because they don't do anything people want or need more of, and what they do they do incredibly poorly. They're brawlers with zero defenses, a weak attack, poor range and that's it. They are terrible models in every possible sense of the word.

Not what he needed in the slightest.

The upgrade for masks against poisoned models just gives him more set up, which already was his biggest problem, and the pulse is some half assed attempt at giving him a damage source which people asked for, but then Wyrd decided to put it on a simple duel and at Wk instead of Wp.

The extra poison damage is not nearly as big as it sounds considering that if you play the Brewmaster even remotely competitively models only poison themselves if they fail a duel in his bubble, and if they do they get a healing flip to boot offsetting all the damage you would be doing. At least it's a free Wesley though.

Arent akaname 4ss? Better scheme runners, a variety of abilities and thanks to poison and 5 severe equal or better damage. They also have synergy with shenlong where high river monks dont.

Akaname and fermented monks deal out plenty of poison for the extra damage aura. Outside of those models it seems very hard. If brewie could take the new undead gremlin that would work but shit like tanuki, dawn serpent and yin arent poison heavy enough.

And even then Akaname don't see a lot of play because LRM give you great healing, the Shadow Effigy gives you a sturdy scheme runner/leader protection/minitarpit, and [any totem] does what [totem] is designed for. Fuck the HRM are shit.

I said competitively.

Between (0) Wander the Earth and the discard for 3 attacks on charge, you can use them to fairly reliably put Burning +3 (up to +6 with enough Tomes) on something - excellent in Frame for Murder.

A corner case, but I've seen it done.

I think they'd see play as a cheap beater minion at 5ss.
6ss is just dumb though.

Competitive TT list without akaname what? Maybe its my meta but they are must haves for shen, yan, brewie and asami here. I rarely hire less than two. I doubt gremlins use them as much but god damn you can fit an lrm or shadow alongside akaname unless you literally take yu+emissary every single game and want another 10 cost on top.

The fuck do you use two Akaname for? The fuck do you even use one for? Poisoning models is a huge waste of AP, they don't do shit without poison. There's a dozen better models in the 4-5 SS bracket.

They arent using their ranged attack they charge in and deal regular damage then mass pump scheme and/or corpse markers out. Yan uses one if hes taking tosh to get easy ashigaru, asami uses the for corpse and scheme markers, brewie scheme and poison, shen again for schemes and damage but TT bros are similar if you have no obsidian oni etc. They get enough poison to fuel their shit or fuel a shen fermented style bomb hust from combat and marker production. TT bros are good competiton but they pretty much destroy Tengu and dont fill similar role to LRM. I take them over tt bro any time I have or need marker production.

Why the fuck is wyrd so fond of LE models that can be bought only at conventions or through their own online shop AT convention times? It's fucking absurd that they have like, 20 different plastic kits, not counting green/red recolors, that just sit on the shelf for most of the year. Especially when they're stuff that people would eat up, because the original model is shit (like hungering darkness). It just seems like Spartan Games idea.

Go to tourneys, local tourneysget sent prize packs by wyrd featuring those limited models.

So first they have to charge a model, hit twice and apply 2 poison, if you don't want to spend 8 SS on this gimmick you have to wait a turn, get only one poison back unless one of those charge attacks had an extra crows in its duel total and then use your 0 to drop a scheme marker? Rather than, y'know, drop a scheme marker? And at a suit if you want to create a different kind of marker?
Like you said, Obsidian Oni are far better at that. And instead of trying to make an incredibly inefficient Shenlong upgrade work you could always just focus on his other upgrades. I could see taking one with Brewmaster just so the Brewmaster and Yu can drag themselves across the board, but even there his use diminishes very quickly and you'd even be better off with a FRM.

Didn't they say they'd be releasing Alt Nekima and Alt Huggy regularly? If they don't want to bloat the game they're gonna have to switch to just releasing cooler models.

In all honesty, I don't know. I've had to glue some Kharadrons for AoS recently, and I had no desire to touch any Malifaux models after that sadly. I've been spoiled.

In your hypothetical with no other models on the board thats true hut like I said when one of yours or your enemy dies or creates a marker you get extra pushes and poison. I dont try to build up poison I get it through normal combat. Thanks to 5+1 severe they scale well with the many free focuses in TT and their low cost malkekes activation control easy. I understand if you dont have play experience with akaname but they really are a great 4ss model for tt. They dont fit into the old hench/enforcer heavy tt but once you realize mass minions makes better use of tt synergies (maybe not with lynch or misaki I dont know them well) they are a great addition. The problem with tanuki is akanamedo the same thing but they also do damage. Though I wpuld have played the shit out of misdirect tanuki.

user open yourmail wyrd just sent you a free mechanical toolbox or whatever vs totem is called.

Any tara, levi, vs or jack players wanna discuss the new upgrades? Alternatively anyone wanna talk about blight focused hamelin? I wanna try hamelin but most players seem to ignore blight and focus only on obeys and activation control.

Mostly because Obeys and Activation control wins you games.

Regarding Blight Hamelin, I am interested to see what his new Plague Pit upgrade does.

Blight is great to take that one tough model out of the game - I've lost Joss and Cassandra to it several times because my local Hamelin player is inappropriately scared of them.
There's not a huge amount you can do about it if they are on Blight +5 by Turn 3.

The issue seems to be getting mire than one into a model. Bleeding disease is cool and 1 action charges are even better than obeys but what else is there?

There's about four different things that can pass on Blight, and it ticks up at the end of each turn.
Get some on early, use the bonuses the target having Blight gives to stack more and to aid doing normal damage, and ignore the target until you're ready to Blight-Expunge it.

Bleeding Disease is pretty brutal.

As for stacking blight, if you get it early it stacks itself otherwise hitting with rats (for some reason nobody likes to cheat against puny little rats) can stack a decent bunch of Blight. Blight on Pipes is also good, as are just putting some Stolen near enemies.

They are alright at the two things they do: punching conditions out of people, and minor healing. For 4ss if you think that's what you need, go it.

The problem is I find it rare to really want that.

Wrong river buddy.

Also LRM are amazing.

>.
I can't fucking read!
High river are, as stated, just slightly too weak at what they do. They are too fragile to want to take, and don't quite deal enough damage in return.

I see. Don't think I mind,I'll use the dope as fuck models for my Blood Bowl team.

I already have TTB, probably gonna pick up some Terracottas soon. Are there any other solid TT minions that are cheap and good? (Do you ever run Illuminated outside of Lynch?)

With Gwyneth Maddox coming out they'll definitely see more play outside of Lynch, and I'll often take them in Shenlong or McCabe lists. LRM are good cheap models, and Katanaka Snipers are good.

The Illuminated are amazing minions though I feel you rarely see them beyond Lynch because losing the 4/6/7 damage track really feels like such a huge blow, even though they're still great models with just their 2/4/5. As that guy said, Gwyneth accompanied by one in a McCabe crew is gonna be brutal.

If looking at the best minions TT has to offer... like ^ said, maybe a Shadow Effigy and some Komainu. The new Charm Warders are shaping up to be quite good too, and the Lotus Eaters are kinda nice, if a bit niche. The rest will depend on which masters you play.

Illuminated are good but at 7 stones if you don want a tanky model skip em. Obsidian oni, katanaka snipers, torakage, tt bros, thunder archers there are a lot of tt models but they tend to vary in function. TT bros are the easiest for most players they use in the minion slot. Teracotta warriors can turn cheap stuff like yokai, akaname, koimanu or fermented river monks into nightmares to remove. One amusing thing about thunder archers is they have cg 8 so hand them the glowing saber and they can run the whole field to shank someone, if you give em fast they can spend 1ap to double focus too.

Koimanu + terracotta warrior = your opponent either spending all their resources or leaving the koimanu alone to fuck them up all game. Obsidian oni plus toshiro can shit out more koimanu too and the onis get + damage against the dudes koimanus burn.

If taking the Archers, who usually carries their upgrade?

Depends on master. If it's Shenlong then he'll carry because A) he has the slot, and B) he can ditch it for the benefit that gives and Sensei Yu can then pick it up.

Any other master it will just go on a henchman.

I really wouldn't take the archers.

They confirmed that alt huggy and nekima are getting regular releases. The rest are bait to get you to participate in tournaments.

>hitting with rats (...nobody likes to cheat against puny little rats) can stack... Blight
This.
Rats are more than just activation control - your dozen rats represent three or four Blight applications, because either :
-The opponent ditches their hand to block it and gets fucked up when you start moving real pieces; or
-The opponent lets the natural flips ride and lets that Blight accumulate, to get fucked up next turn.

Cheating for Rat Blights also an acceptable use of 8s and down.

What is that picture.

Gencon order shipping has begun

Let's say I picked McCabe and Shenlong to start 10T with. Who would you guys recommend as a third Master?

Fucking finally
Gimme my Kali knockoff and retard welders

Brewmaster.
You've already got your "I want to win this game" Masters, now you need your funbad Master for days off.

Jakob would be good, as he can put out a lot of damage for killier schemes, and a well composed group of Illuminated can be parked somewhere for anything that requires holding a point. Asami wouldn't be bad either, as she can summon in more killy pools without too much of a disadvantage, while enjoying the benefits summoners normally do.