Pathfinder General /pfg/

Yeah, I was disappointed when I learned that Gnomes and Halfings survived the gap too.

>Did they get you one of them there Energy Bows for space?
Oh yeah, it's really shiny. I keep hearing about scaling weapons, but I can't find that setting anywhere. These pixies are no help either, maybe the Wendigo knows something about it.

>Gay Erastilite clergy now fucken confirmed as totally canon and the new hotness in Paizo's latest sensational AP.

Eamon is a sweetheart and just wants to settle down with a good man.

I want him to cum inside and tell me how much he loves me~

>Gay Erastilite clergy now fucken confirmed as totally canon
They were pretty much always canon.

I want Anya Sandstrider to break me like a Stallion!

I want her to dip her bald head in oil and rub it all over my body.

>Erastil will never give you his deer dicky daddy cummies

I want to dip my head in oil and rub it all over her bald!

Not Erastil, silly. Eamon!

But Eamon is a powerbottom, user.

Should I pull punches if the whole party does something stupid after I warn them clearly that its stupid?? They're basically walking into a tpk but I don't want to actually party wipe them and end the campaign.

No. Slaughter them. The players are you enemies. You should never have warned them about their own stupidity. In fact, you should have outright lied to them.

Depends how stupid is stupid.
If four players don't see the huge danger of this plan that seems obvious to you, then there's a chance, but not a guarantee, that you haven't made the danger apparent enough as a GM and they're making an okay decision based on what they think they know.

Well, I already fucked it up. We're looking for an ancient library, and one of my party members explained that we're too big to read normally. I asked if they would have books on tape. So my first real quip (at least it wasn't for an actual spell) was an anachronism. Goddammit.

Depends on the situation, if the enemies have literally any reason to take them prisoner do that instead of just killing them.

Give them one last warning OOC if you don't want them to wipe out. Just a simple "Are you sure?" and if they don't take a step back at that point, roll with it.

Is this the first time they've missed your signs or is this habit? Deus ex machina them out of the hole once, but don't let them rely on it.

Well next session isn't until Friday so I have a while to figure it out. But I think I made things clear as I could in character. If they really get up to a point of no return I'll tell them OOC, but I want to avoid having to do that if possible. Feels too heavy handed.

The enemies in this case are an entire hive of undead giant wasps, so I don't think capture and imprisonment are likely. They exist only to hate and be hated, just like real wasps.

My character was a mercenary, raised by her company. They disbanded after a large chunk of them died in a betrayal. Now she kinda roams about, doing this and that. Visiting surviving vets.

Consider a Tattooed Sorcerer, they get something you could fluff in a similar way while still just being a (mostly) normal familiar. Not a janky Figment Familiar, at least.

The first time. I'm just having trouble coming up with a good way to get them out of the grave theyseem determined to dig for themselves. I don't want to do something that wouldn't make sense in the context of the campaign, but I even more don't want to end the game on a TPK especially one like this where it's not even against the BBEG or something.

What if I just played it out to the logical conclusion and then rewinded back to before the party made their suicidal choice?

Hey new spheres of might class out for playtest

docs.google.com/document/d/1H87eHhordfN3JlG5EpHVw2OH_P-_i3OW_qvK2Amymuk/edit?usp=sharing

>tfw these doublechucklefucks make a beeline RIGHT towards the boss fight of the first part of RoW immediately after the first encounter in the cabin.

Anything to make SoM salvageable, yet?

Actually working within the damage calculation of pathfinder, mostly.

While still somehow being more complex and less intuitive and fun to play than Path of War.

>Pick sphere
>Pick talent

Super complicated.

Yo all, Legendary Gunslinger playtest is going on for another week, so if you've got any suggestions before I close things up, I'm up to hear them. Also on a new kickstarter for basically sigil in pathfinder, which is worth checking out.

Now try picking talents that actually synegize in such away that your better than a CRB fighter without going full autism.

The classes are ass. The talents and spheres are often underwhelming. Focus doesn't feel good to use, and the system overall just seems to encourage you to pick a bunch of passive bullshit.

It just feels really janky compared to initation or fucking Spheres of Power. I honestly don't know how they fucked the pooch so hard with this subsystem.

Every time I looked at it, it looked more like a bunch of feat fixes rather than an actual "fix for martial combat". Plus, any and all actually WORTHWHILE, INTERESTING ABILITIES were locked behind the legendary banner, and were then fucked up because "wow why can a martial just, y'know, DO THIS?"

you gonna do some kinda kinetic gunslinger? figured thatd be like day one shit

This too.

Also, Scholar might also be the weakest class I've seen put forth as a PC option.

In mother Russia, moose and squirrel kill you!

That's on the docket at some point in the future, as I'm sure I could do a better job than I did in Gunslingers of Porphyra.

Right now, I'm trying to learn starfinder for some projects I might end up doing for that.

Jolly, jolly, when the fuck are we getting a book from you about Occultists?!

Jolly, jolly, I hope you had a great time at GenCon.

A gunslinger that gets infusions and does elemental damage with their gun doesn't sound all that bad actually.

Legendary Mediums WHEN?

>tfw realizing that I'm slowly shifting from true neutral to neutral good.

fuck I need to go back to being neutral what do I do.

You need to bend over and let me sample that Neutral booty, user

Probably not, the class isn't as interesting to me as the others. It was actually being tossed around the devcord that there needed to be a legendary medium, with suggestions of someone bringing back the 64 spirits.

I had an amazing time, gonna link the blog post where I talk about it more:

ehnsgamingfoundry.tumblr.com/post/164533538354/gencon-and-the-world

Cast protection from good a few times.

>bringing back the 64 spirits
Pathfinder communities around the web have been clamoring for the Harrow Medium since it was cut. While that'd be a shit-ton of work, it seems like an awesome way to ingratiate the product to all those communities.

I wish I liked the class more, but the only occult classes I like are kineticist and mesmerist, and mesmerist is decently well supported. Depending on what's done with the shifter, I might be interested in supporting that, but legendary's putting out a shapeshifting class that's already got my attention.

Why don't you like the Occultist or Spiritualist?

Occultist is a bit too fiddly for me, and its flavor doesn't really sync for me.

Spiritualist is Summoner 3.0, which felt like retreaded territory. While I like the flavor, the class itself feels samey to me, which really kills my interest.

Funnily enough...

I've been working on it [the Harrow Medium] on and off for the past year. The problem is that it's an absolute bitch to fill out 64 spirits and make them all be "fun" and retain the original harrow medium.

As a compromise, what does /pfg/ think of having a Harrow Medium that had their spirits divvied up by the mythic paths (i.e 6 or 7 "minor spirits" per each path) that are a good bit more focused, but limited in how many you know. You can always channel the Major spirits (i.e the champion, archmage, trickster) but you can only channel a few minor ones.

I've also toyed with tossing flexible feats at it, sorta like Martial Flexibility but you set them at the start of the day from a list determined by your spirits you choose to channel. Sorta eases some of the Medium's issues with being inflexible but I can't make them work how I want them to work without the Medium just eclipsing most other classes.

I can totally share my other thoughts on remaking the Harrow Medium, if anyone is interested.

Shoot, I'd be interested to hear them.

You have a santorum fetish?

Only if there's love~

>mesmerist is decently well supported
Funny, I feel like it's one of the classes Paizo actively ignores and tries to forget about, right next to Slayer and Brawler. Granted, I also consider Mesmerist to be a failure of a class, since it should have been a highly specialized fullcaster instead of... Whatever the unfocused mess it is now.

>Jolly doesn't like Occultist because it's too fiddly
>Jolly, the kineticist man who's written extensive guides on overcomplicated bullshit, thinks a class is too fiddly
The flavor I could get, as I'm not too into psychic casting in general and would vastly prefer an arcane version of it that works with Panoplies, so I can replace Magus for good, but somehow the "too fiddly" thing doesn't compute with me.

>it should have been a highly specialized fullcaster instead of... Whatever the unfocused mess it is now.
I think that would have put it too close to the beguiler for Paizo's liking.

shit man, why you so supportive. i heard you were helping someone out with kineticist homebrew too a while back.

Well fuck them, it should have been the beguiler, the mesmerist just feels like a blander, less exciting bard. They managed to take an already kind of dull class and make it even more boring. How do you even do that?

Have you snuggled your support caster lately, /pfg/? They just want you to do your best!

If you want a beguiler just use ertw's beguiler, Paizo tried to make something their own. You might find it dull, but there are plenty here that seem to enjoy it.

Mesmerist is the kind of class I'd certainly be willing to fiddle with at some point in the future, it's one of those underspoken projects I never get around to.

I just can't get into the occultist, I wish I knew why. It's...it's just not my scene. Maybe that's just me.

Everyone's gotta get started somewhere, and you help create some talented people by nurturing that desire to learn and get better.

I really like the concept of it, and I think with a little rearranging of some puzzle pieces, it could be a lot better.

Ugh, forgot my trip.

Either way, I may have some more interesting projects to work on soon that'll be on kickstarter.

We really do.

No ;_;

I'm the support caster, and no one has snuggled me yet.

jolly jolly jolly get your adverbs here

Which game? I'll harass the others until they snuggle you.

so what. there's like six encounters between the cabin and the final fight. they'll turn back eventually.

I have no strong opinions on the matter whatsoever.

My first is a Half-Elf member of an Elvish noble house, so he doesn't always feel very comfortable at-court. He personally feels like the best place for his services are acting as a a roving agent for his family and the forces of good.

The other is the half-breed offspring of an Orc slave, and her Hobgoblin captor. He never felt love for the society he grew up in, and took the first opportunity to make himself useful to the party when he realized that they were going to kill the rest of the raiding squad to which he belonged.

What about other kinds of support? Do we still count?

I'll snuggle you. What's your Discord?

Only if you want them to do their best!

That's sonya from d3/heroes of the storm. Not "savage girl". us.battle.net/heroes/en/heroes/sonya/

Always! Their performance is my utmost concern!

Oh boy, this is gonna be a LONG series of posts.

The Medium, over all, is a really competent class. It rests squarely inside of Tier 3 by merit of the Archmage, Hierophant, Trickster, and Champion being actually GOOD. Archmage and Hierophant by making the Medium into essentially mini-wizards or mini-clerics, giving them free reign over the first 6 spell levels that Clerics and Wizards get. Trickster makes you a skill monkey-lite and Champion turns you into a competent beatstick that can pretty easily stand beside a Vigilante or Paladin or Ranger, in terms of doing straight damage.

The problem is that it's mired down by the fact that Influence is a trash mechanic, and if you strip out the mostly-fluff class features that the Medium gets some pretty glaring dead levels at 3rd, 5th, 7th, arguably 9th level, then 13th, and 14th levels. At those levels, you get monk-tier class abilities that really are only there for fluff reasons. At levels 3, 5, 7, 9, and 13 (FIVE levels in total), an Investigator and Occultist get talents/focus powers that directly expand and advance what they can do. A Medium gets nothing apart from an ability that may or may not work properly, or which might never see use.

Sure, spirits make up for this (and they ARE a strong class feature), but it's also a matter of ergonomics. A level up should feel like a vertical shift in power, rather than a plateau. Core Monk and core Fighter were unsatisfying in that regard primarily because all they got were either: underwhelming class features, another +1, or a bonus feat. Combating this, talent-based classes (like Vigilante, Alchemist, and Occultist) offer talents from a list in order to broaden customization of their basic class features, in a slightly more modular manner than most archetypes.

1/?

He's the son of an old and noble family whose roots go back to the founding of the city-before the current crisis, he set a few heads shaking in disapproval for his drinking, gambling, and similarly delinquent activities, but he was always a friendly fellow, if prone to the company of rascals. If nothing else, he was popular at the public houses. Of course, recent developments have rendered a large portion of the community insane, and a lot of them (as well as some arguably sane cultists) are currently trying to murder him and his companions.

Hello there, FennecAnon. I hope this evening finds you well.

2/?

There, we have the first problem. The Medium has bad ergonomics in terms of leveling up and customization. It's got a janky power scaling that starts relatively linear, but after level 10 it suddenly starts to skyrocket in terms of power (as the archmage and hierophant's powers start to come online and you get access to wider and wider lists of spells). As well, the medium is deceptively INFLEXIBLE in terms of just how much you can customize from the class. There is no talent-progression, there is no real customization, apart from what spirit you pick for the day and whatever choices that spirit has for its abilities (EWP from champion, spells from Archmage/Hierophant, skills from Trickster, etc.) The most optimal build is going to be a Dex/Cha race using a rapier or a halfling channeling the champion and using a longbow, without much deviation in that regard.

This is /really boring/. Most mediums will look identical to each other under the hood. There's the Caster Medium, the Bow Medium, the Dex Medium, and the Strength Medium, and those are really the only four builds that are good for it.

There's also the second problem: Most mechanics being trash, despite being flavorful. You can lose control of your PC just by not following your spirit's taboo, which can be as inane as a Paladin code of conduct or falling below 50% HP. Some of your most powerful abilities even rely on you accepting influence in order to use them. It might be flavorful, but it isn't fun.

Spirit Surge is a fun mechanic that is stifled by the fact that you just don''t get as many uses out of it as an Investigator does Inspiration, its most comparable feature on another class. As well, using it actively punishes you unless you're extremely frugal with it, only using it a few times a day, for fear of becoming an NPC. Most insultingly enough, you also have to SACRIFICE your highest level spirit powers or take on arbitrary restrictions in order to get more uses out of it!

2/?

What're your thoughts on Legendary Influence?

I found that it's what made my Medium finally playable.

Time to turn the tables: What are YOU going to do this weekend, FennecAnon?

It does, thank you. How is yours?

I'm in pretty good spirits, I've got an exciting weekend coming up!

Then they should snuggle you! Make sure you're available to be snuggled, and hope for the best!

Endeavor to find a way to free the city from whatever extradimensional realm it's been forcibly shunted into. Ideally before whatever entity lives there realizes we're there, but things have gone rather poorly of late, despite our successes, and the worst-case scenario seems more likely.

Also, taking a friend to see Terminator 2-they've never actually seen the movie, and a local theater is playing it on the big screen.

What the fuck is "Knowledge (all skills taken individually)" supposed to mean?

Oh, exciting. That's a classic movie right there.

That's always good to hear. Any big plans, game-related or otherwise?

I'll try! It's a little tough when you're a ghost.

Indeed. What about you? Any plans you're eagerly awaiting come the weekend?

Friday's my birthday so I'll be celebrating with friends and family, then Saturday is back into RotJR after a week's hiatus.

3/?

Anyways, moving on from that, what do we do with the Harrow Medium? We want to avoid the bad class ergonomics of the original medium, and we also want it to be fun without overshadowing any other particular role in the party?

My thoughts on it are as such:

Retain the major, "legendary" spirits like the champion, archmage, hierophant, etc. Optionally, add in the Overmind if you're a fan of psionics, but it's not required. Keep them mostly the same but standardize their power schedule so that it's a power every X levels, and you aren't kept waiting for 5 or so levels.

Completely rejig the power of some of the major spirits. Guardian is almost entirely useless, while Marshal lags behind the Champion and Trickster in terms of usefulness.

Retain Spirit Surge, but tie it into a small, grit-like pool that fluctuates throughout the day, representing the waxing and waning of influence with spirits. Have it scale slightly faster (d6 to d8 to d10 to d12 would be decent).

Tone down the effect that influence and taboos have. You should never be punished by being made into an NPC by your own mechanics

Add in Binder-like "minor spirits" of which you only know of a few. Associate each one with a major spirit. Give them minor, fun, powers that allow you to "trick out" your major spirit how you like it, tuning it to what you want it to do. Add in at least a SMALL factor of customization. Then add in some way of getting flexible feats that means you aren't perpetually locked into one build.

I'm unfamiliar with Legendary Influence, actually, as there's unfortunately VERY few 3pp Medium books out there (Empath Medium and a few archetypes from Legendary Games' Occult Archetypes... that's it). Mind explaining what it is and giving a source for it?

Anyways, i should go to sleep, I've been rambling long enough.

To this day, my favourite PC is the empty nester paladin of Erastil who goes around offering his wisdom and wedding young couples so they can know Erastil's gifts.

Course, that campaign fell apart the day before the first session, so meh.

It means that for the class, all Knowledge skills are class skills, but they must be taken individually. It came about from confusion back in the 3.5 era when some classes had "Knowledge (All)" listed as a skill, and some fuckers thought that meant that they could invest a single point into "All" knowledge to do everything. From then on, it's been referred to as "Knowledge (All; each taken individually)".

>From then on, it's been referred to as "Knowledge (All; each taken individually)".