TAXES WTF!!

im gonna try to help you out

I will assume that all your crypto trading were short term gains (things you held for under 1 year before selling)

this means the gains from your trading is counted as normal income. if you have a job and made 50k, and then you made 20k from trading, you have an income of 70k to declare for the year.
this number puts you in a certain tax bracket. according to this chart i just googled for 2017, it means you will owe $5226.25 + 25% of the excess over $37950.

70k - 37950 = 32050
32050 * .25 = 8012.5
8012.5 + 5226.25 = $13238.75 taxes owed this year (without getting into deductions and other things that would reduce this number)

so first you need to figure out your income for the year to really know how much tax you will be paying senpai

U did it wong

i worked two weeks at some shitty flower place
i cashed out about 10k this year on coinbase
bitcoin.tax is saying i have 70k in trades
are they going off the current price of BTC or something?

but isn't that only if you cash out? As long as its in crypto its still just an asset and non-taxable until an actual FIAT exchange occurs.

fuck you, not if you do more than 20 trades you negroe

tether counts as USD

it werks for me, you sure you're not doing something wrong?

>>bitcoin.tax is saying i have 70k in trades
i dont really know how that site works to be honest

if your starting capital was like, 5k lets say
and you cashed out 10k (to fiat)
I would declare 5k in profits

yes

doubtful

I have done plenty more than 20 trades and there were no issues. I think you might just be retarded.

yeah but if you transfer from USD to BTC, BTC to ETH, ETH to Tether, and then Tether back into LTC, you haven't cashed out. Your funds are still in Crypto.

If your shit is in a crypto at the end of the year and not cash, you won't be taxed because its still in a liquid asset that will vastly change in value from Dec 31st to April when you actually put in your taxes.

So if you just have all your shit in crypto as a risk investment of an asset, you haven't gained anything have you?

yeah fuck that website im beat for my 20
bitcoin.tax sucks

/thread

Don't use USD anymore. Stop paying the Jews and other subhuman parasites.

nice /pol/post faggot but some of us need USD to survive

Honestly the exchange owns,your funds while you trade. Therefore they should pay the tax on trades.

Or perhaps you can claim massive capital loss on your crypto when you transfer it out of the exchange into,a private wallet.

Claim,you transfered,it,into the wrong wallet and dont have access to,it,anymore: ie massive,capital loss that can then be deducted against gains =0 tax.

Then cash out slowly over years or buy a house directly with bitcoin.

Do you have any losses that you haven't realized by trading out of?

For the last fucking time, it doesn't matter if you do or don't cash out. Every trade is a taxable event based on the fair market value measured in dollars at time of trade.

fuck off retard

Why do you need a shitcoin to survive? Just move to Switzerland, there's places there where you can buy everything you need with crypto.

Tether is kept 1:1 with USD. The IRS will absolutely count it as USD value. It's like cashing out to amazon gift cards. Still a taxable event

because I live in the USA and I pay for my groceries and rent with USD

>JUST MOVE TO SWITZERLAND LOL
there is so much delusion on this board it's fucking insane

>because I live in the USA
Why? They're going to steal a lot of your gains.

>For the last fucking time, it doesn't matter if you do or don't cash out.

if i have a gold bar and i swap it with my buddy for two of his silver bars how the fuck does the government get any tax money from that

you are wrong my dude

Delusion is paying the government 40% so that they can go kill people in other countries and thinking its a fair deal.

Delusion is thinking most people are in the 40% tax bracket and thinking that being in a 40% bracket means your effective tax is 40%. Shut the fuck up you moron. Seriously anyone in this thread, don't listen to anyone on Veeky Forums about anything regarding taxes. You're going to make horrible mistakes and the government will catch you unless you're a small fry

No. That's how tax for bartering property works. If you buy gold and then trade it for silver with a greater fair market value, you owe taxes based on the difference between that and your cost basis.

>B-but where am I supposed to get the fiat?

The government doesn't care, you owe fiat.

>Most people aren't in the 40% bracket
If you've not made at least $1 million in crypto this year you are clinically retarded.

...

This.

Fuck IRS. If we define 'making it' as 2M+.
Anyone that makes it should just leave the country.

Lets,face it, we're,not buisness owners. That 2M is likely the only million income we're ever,going,to,get in our lives.

Why pay 40% of that... And, be on the same level as people who make 2M every year as income,from buisness?

Fuck that.

Don't sayyy thissss

learn the difference between realized and unrealized capital gains shitbrick

Here's proof:

irs.gov/publications/p525#en_US_2016_publink1000229343
>Bartering is an exchange of property or services. You must include in your income, at the time received, the fair market value of property or services you receive in bartering. If you exchange services with another person and you both have agreed ahead of time on the value of the services, that value will be accepted as fair market value unless the value can be shown to be otherwise.

I do know the difference idiot. You don't. I've spent a lot of time researching this topic. According to the IRS, they consider ANY trade of crypto to be "realizing" your gains. If you bought BTC at $1000 and sold it for $10,000 of ANY OTHER PROPERTY, DGB, LINK, ETH, Corn, Wheat, Pigs, Land, a Car, anything that has a fair market value, you realized a capital gain in fair market value and owe short term capital gains in fiat.

irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

>A-5: For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied.

>A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

He's completely right about crypto to crypto being taxed, its why you're a fucking idiot if you stay in the US. The massive capital flight that's going to occur will be great.

If I trade some of my shitcoins that I profited off of on binance for monero, then send the monero to a private wallet, then use that private wallet to buy a couple grand worth of stuff I need on overstock, how will the Jews tax me on taking that profit? Am I in the clear in this situation or will they come knocking on my door asking why $2k worth of XMR disappeared from my binance account?

lol fuck them, the irs has no right to tax a currency that is not issued nor controlled by the US government, it's the equivalent of attempting to tax a foreign country's currency, I'm interested in seeing some court decisions on this matter.

Did you get verified on binance? If not they probably won't find out.

It makes zero sense having to pay before you cash out to fiat. What if I own and am day trading one coin successfully at the beginning of the year but at the end of the year that coins crashes to only 10% of value. Does that mean I would have to pull out every last bit of my investment just to pay the fucking taxable gains from the beginning of the year? WTF?

They already tax you if you are a US citizen who makes money in a foreign country. Learn your tax code you ignorant piece of shit, you don't get to decide what applies to you and when.

the hell I don't this is muricam, they can take my crypto from my cold dead fingers

No, because the losses can offset the profits. You just have to provide the records to back it all up or they'll fuck you - with taxes you're guilty until you prove your innocence.

>Does it mean I'd have to cash out everything just to pay the capital gains
You could sell it to realize a loss so you'd only have to pay the tax on your net gains. Though you'd be prohibited from buying that crypto for 30 days due to the bullshit wash sale rules. Everything about tax laws may as well have been written to fuck over crypto traders, anyone with a seven digit portfolio who stays in the US is a complete cuck.

Ok thanks for clearing that up. All of this is still bullshit though.

They tax you when you make gains in anything. If you make gains in stocks they tax you. If you make gains in precious metals they tax you. If you make gains in crypto of course... they tax you.

Capital losses subtract against capital gains. That's why if you have unrealized losses, you need to take a strategic loss and trade out of them before January 1st so that they subtract. If you don't, you'll be stuck having to pay for those gains. This is why I was asking OP if he has any unrealized losses.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States#Strategic_losses

And yes, you either have to liquidate a portion of your portfolio, pay any taxes for liquidating, then use the left over money to pay your other capital gains, or get a second source of income to pay the taxes.

Fine, so they come to you with proof you bought a bunch of crypto but have nothing to show for it except all the shit you bought with your gains.
Either you a) cashed out and bought it all which is taxable, b) traded crypto for items directly, which is barter and taxable, or c) clearly bought drugs and became a mid level dealer so they seize it all as criminal proceeds and send you to prison.

so let say I convert
>1 bitcoin to tether
>then tether to bitcoin
>then bitcoin to tether

how much do I have to pay the based IRS for this?

Try entering into bitcoin.tax that you sold everything for fiat at the end and see if the short term gains decrease. If they do, you had unrealized losses.

30 days on losses fucks over day traders too. It's partly to discourage us poorish people from influencing markets like the big boys can with everyone's money.

Taxes just are. You don't like them move somewhere that doesn't use them and cash out there, or at least somewhere that taxes you less severely and gives you more benefits for it.

Touche sir you win this round, fortunately I don't day trade and I've less than $1,000 initial purchase anything I make will be through mining and long term capital gains, which I have no problem paying my taxes on. However I think it's grade A fucking bullshit to tax crypto to crypto transfers before the gains are realized in USD, and will always have this opinion.

No. You can try to claim like exchange for this year. You may not get that if the irs fights it. Then every trade you make is considered a realization of profits or loss. So every time you trade and are profitable, you owe taxes.

It’s 100 I believe.

What values changed and in what direction? It's your job to keep track or they will assume in their favour.
Also losses due to paying fees don't count as losses.

>30 days on losses fucks over day traders too.
Far less, because the market is nowhere near as volatile. Every negative aspect of tax law on stock traders is magnified x1000 on crypto traders.

IF YOU STAY IN THE US YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED.

>believe.
lets say they do not change. then no taxes?

You don't owe taxes if everything stayed flat. Though things don't stay flat so that's a weird hypothetical.

Some of us just got into this within the last few months and can't just pack up and move.

If they didn't force you to pay taxes when you barter in crypto or gold or silver, everybody would have no incentive to use fiat anymore. Everybody would prefer to get their income paid in crypto or precious metals and trade them for stuff and pay 0% taxes.

ok well that's slightly reassuring.
Now lets say
>1 bitcoin to tether
> bitcoin now goes 2x
> tether to .5 bitcoin

how fucked am I?

>if they didn't force you to pay taxes when you trade crypto noone would use fiat
Except we have half the entire world as a counterexample showing that's bullshit.

So in what countries can you get your income paid in gold/silver or crypto and owe no taxes?

in that same regard
>1 bitcoin to tether
> bitcoin halves in price
> tether to 2 bitcoin

Am I ever more fucked?

....you think IRS doesn't tax forex trading gains?

You're doing it wrong, retard. Don't CASH out, buy something with crypto you idiot, then sell that IRL. Voila, no taxing shit. IIRC you can buy bullion with Bitcoin.

>Just move to Switzerland

Yeah very simple

...

Would this work:
Transfer your money into btc and then push it to cold storage.

Then claim,you sent it to the wrong address and its all gone now.

Claim the lost funds as trading losses which then,offset all gains youve made.

Thereby you have a wallet with btc and no tax burden until you convert to Fiat.

$0 on that part as you still had the same fiat value throughout, though you would owe on the gain from when you bought bitcoin to when you went into tether.
I specified crypto to crypto so most of Europe, Phillippines, Japan, Mexico, South Korea. most latin American countries. The US, UK, and Canada are about the only ones with this bullshit.

GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS RETARDED COUNTRY

idk much about forex, is it consider realized gains when you go from euro to pound with a gain in value? or is it still unrealized until you get to usd?

dropped

so is the tracking all the transactions the difficult part or is it that you could hypothetically end up owing more taxes than you actually earned?

That's not the IRS's fault, and was not the intention. The tax codes haven't had time to be properly adjusted to crypto yet so they just adapted the current laws instead of writing new ones so they get something out of it.

Everyone acts like the tax man is after them specifically because they have mad crypto gains, when it's just this is the first time some of them have ever had to pay above the minimum tax bracket and are shocked at what people who earn a livable wage have to fork over.

Also, I'm in Canada and fully intend to pay what I owe, I benefit from actually affordable care.

That's barter and taxable based on the fiat value of what you bought with the crypto.

I don't think they'll see a transfer loss as equal to a trading loss.
I can't just empty my bank accounts and bury it all in a suitcase and say I lost all my money and owe no taxes.

The worst bit is that you could end up having a loss that you have to count as a gain.
>Buy 100BTC worth of alt for 1k sats when bitcoin is $1000
>alt goes to 700 sats
>bitcoin goes to $10000
>lose 30 BTC on trade
>owe 24 BTC in taxes

>Its not the government's fault
Sure its not, its not as if they didn't just produce legislation confirming that like-kind isn't permissible or anything.
>I'm Canadian
No wonder you're such a fucking cuck then.

Canada isn't quite as bullshit, every accountant and adviser I've talked to has said that unless you trade heavily and have 100s of thousands in gains they only want your cashed out gains.

God the US is cucked for the next 3 years.

Like-kind was never permissible, it's still barter. You just always had to track it yourself so nobody did - now that exchanges do it automatically nobody who uses then has an excuse.

>No wonder you're such a fucking cuck then.
I'm not the one losing 36% of my earnings every year in return for the joy of then also paying for medical services, if I can even find a doctor willing to treat me.

>not knowing the definition of "confirming"
You said that it wasn't the intent to fuck us and the law just hadn't caught up yet, that's demonstrably not the case when they're making sure to confirm the current state.
>implying I'm staying in the US
Moving in two weeks.

>>all these people giving their money to IRS
why not send me your money instead if you like throwing it away

I don't even see where you're getting the 24 btc from to be honest

>I'm not the one losing 36% of my earnings every year in return for the joy of then also paying for medical services, if I can even find a doctor willing to treat me.

As a leaf in the medical field.

lol, enjoy your quality care given by pajeet and muhammed you cuck.

I come to Veeky Forums to laugh at retarded shit like shit. You people have literally no idea how to calculate capital gains tax.

>you had 100 BTC when bitcoin was $1k, $100k of BTC and bought an alt with it
>you sold the alt at a loss and now have 70 BTC of bitcoin at $10k, $700k of BTC
>you owe taxes on 40% of the $600k "gain", $240k
>$240k in cuckbucks is 24BTC while BTC is $10k

If they haven't done it yet nothing has changed, you're all just acting like it has.
Cash out while it's in progress and move and they buy back in.

Oh wait, renouncing the US means they hit you with an exit tax, because just leaving and not renouncing means they'll still tax you wherever you go.

>PAYING TAXES
>EVER

REMINDER THAT BITFLUR IS KING

whats wrong with that post
it was assuming short term capital gains

capital gains tax is for long term assets held over one year

Oh I'm definitely renouncing.
>exit tax
I'm only cashing out $400k for now, they aren't going to find out how much I actually have.
>They'll still get you
Please find me a single case of them going after an expat years after they give up citizenship.

My local hospital is the most advanced in western Canada and I have had specialists provided for free for the past 18 years, so it's working out fine for me.

Hell, I never would have survived in the States in the mid 80s with their general state of health care and costs.

you're taxed on gains, but can't deduct losses, unless you had a net loss, and that only goes up to 3k. so if you for example trade 1k up to 1M then make a lot of really dumb trades that brings you down to 2k, you can't say you only made 1k and that's your taxable income, you are responsible for taxes on gains for every trade that brought you up to 1M, which would probably be in the six figures, even though your net gain was only 1k.

fucked, isn't it?

Its impressive really.

The amount of people I have to explain tax brackets to every year is astounding.
I know people who passed on good raises because they worked it out as losing more on taxes than they'd earn.

No, your mistaken. Capital losses deduct from capital gains. You can only deduct 3k of net loss from your other INCOME TAXES, the rest you can carry over to next year.

You didn’t input all your exchanges. Make sure you connect everything you traded to bitcoin tax, including any Coinbase purchases. Mine came out to something ridiculous because there was an error where it couldn’t find where I initially purchased all my Ethereum.