Sell your soul to the Devil

>Sell your soul to the Devil
>Get a cantrip

It's a really fucking good cantrip.

Wizards and Sorcerers are dumb fucks.

>implying wizards and sorcerers aren't the ones smart enough to just take Spell Sniper

>Sell your soul to the Devil
>think getting anything would make it worth it

A cantrip or a kingdom might as well be one and the same.

>Make a mutualistic mentor/student "pact" with a lich
>Get the best combat cantrip

>sell your soul to the devil
>become powerful warlock
>overthrow said devil
>get sould back
its an investment

I want to fuck the smug out of that shitty loli.

if you're evil enough to sell your soul to the devil then you were likely going to go to hell anyway, so why not? Also, why would the devil even bother trying to bargain for your soul anyway if he's going to get it anyway?

I'd imagine the only soul bargaining going on is when the devil initiates the deal by looking for a good but corruptible person.

>not choosing a good patron
You have literally only yourself to blame.

>Sell your soul to nature
>Get to turn into a bear

worth it desu

So wait a minute, that would mean one could
>>Sell your cantrip to the Devil
>>Get a soul
So a soul has an exchange rate equal to one cantrip.

Probably not, I doubt the devil wants any cantrip you're selling. Supply & Demand and all that, a basic part o9f any transaction. But you may be able to sell cantrips to other people for their souls if you're a good enough salesperson.

>making deals with shitty demons
>not finding princes like Buer and learning healing arts all for the price of being able to say his true name and invoke the authority of God on him.

Yeah but if there is demand for cantrips then a shortage may occur, and the devil may find himself making purchases to be able to control /meet all the demand.

>Taking a feat instead of selling your soul

I'll enjoy my Mobility, thank you very much.

"Powerful warlock" is an oxymoron.

>look at a book
>get psychically dickpunched by the aftereffects of Mrelxcleptreldex The Unpronounceable, Lord Of Freezing Blood from the 13th dimension of fuckitude's presence
>Get a cantrip and the ability to speak telepathically

>sell your cantrip to the soul
>get a Devil

is it a telekinesis-based cantrip? i'd literally sell my soul for not having to get up to get another beer any longer.

>go on a bender in the feywild
>wake up with a cantrip

>sell an iron car to a diamond wall
>get 100mph

>Sell your soul to nature
>Become entirely self-sufficient with magical food and water
>Become nearly impervious to all mundane harm via shapeshifting
>Eventually become able to reincarnate as a long-lived race in addition to your druidically increase lifespan to live 10,000+ years
>None of this involves damning your eternal soul by performing atrocities like a Lich or selling your soul like a Warlock
Druid is the thinking man's path

>Make a pact with the devil
>Get a cantrip
>Kill the devil
>Still have the cantrip

>Be redhead
>Sell your soul to the devil
>Get a cantrip
6 years later
>Devil: Wait a minute...fuck!

Kek

except that you can kill the devil, killing nature is harder

....why would you be killing nature?

Why - for the glory of Satan of course.

to get your soul back, what kind of caster lets some entity have that kind of power over him?

>Live in Faerun
>Observable evidence that the afterlife exists abounds
>Knowledge of the horrific things that happen to the faithless and worshippers of evil deities are commonplace
>Have literally dozens of gods to choose from in order to worship, essentially your choice of afterlife
>People still sell their souls to demons/devils
>People still worship evil deities that publicly advertise their horrific, torturous afterlives
>People still choose to not find a god they can faithfully worship and end up wall'd

I mean, shit, get it together

>Have literally dozens of gods to choose from in order to worship, essentially your choice of afterlife
That really doesn't mean you'll find one you actually like/agree with.

Of particular idiocy are characters which are built as atheists. Look, in real life I'm atheistic but in D&D most of the time you can literally talk to a god, as in go and actually have a conversation with them. Atheism makes no sense in D&D.

How hard could it be to find a God you agree with in Faerun; there's hundreds of the fuckers encompassing every vague philosophical concept from military strategy to video game speedruns

That doesn't necessarily mean you'll hear about them or meet worshipers of them that portray their religion in such away that you do.

I mean, 'I' will, being a handsome adventurer and all

But even in peasant towns there are typically worshipers of various deities, probably at least one priest, and at least the folk knowledge to understand there are lots of gods out there.
The real unfortunates are the people born to races whose deities have some kind of 'racial claim' on their souls like Tiamat and Half-Dragons

Not quite.
In D&D cosmology, what happens is that you go to an afterlife and eventually get absorbed into the energy of the place.

See, if you're the sort of person that doesn't mind hurting others and wants to get ahead, you go to the lower planes.
There, you are part of an infernal tyranny that grinds you down and a devil is assembled from the parts.
In the abyss, you just get eaten by a demon.
In Gehenna, you eventually turn into a larva that gives birth to a yugoloth.

If you pledge yourself to a devil, you get to be in his service in Hell.
This means you'll be slightly better off in the place you're already going.
And he gets a powerful servant.
Do well enough and maybe you can circumvent the part about being ground up and just straight up become a devil.

If you're a smart bad person, you become a warlock.
Or you can take your chances being a lich, but that's a riskier proposition. Remember that Liches give up everything but their ability to reason, while devils can still feel positive emotions, even be redeemed.

You probably won't meet all of them. Most peasants probably worship the same core 10 or so deities.

Reminder that you can't just become a lich. You get the necessary knowledge and help from entities like Orcus, and not for free. Basically every lich is Orcus' bitch.

Since when can devils be redeemed? Aren't they the very definition of Lawful Evil, inherently.

Yeah and of those 10 there are plenty of perfectly good choices; Chauntea, Sune, Torm... all fine and don't end up with you spending eternity as a slug-demon

It's people who somehow end up worshipping Loviatar or Beshaba that you have to wonder what their plan was.

> Remember that Liches give up everything but their ability to reason,

Is this something from 5e D&D?

>Yeah and of those 10 there are plenty of perfectly good choices
Not for everyone though. Don't agree or even particular feel to strongly about what those deities represent? Your SoL, enjoy suffering for doing nothing wrong except not stroking some ultra powerful manchild's ego.

Not feeling strongly about your god's portfolio isn't grounds to get wall'd

And those 10 common deities manage to represent good, love, beauty, hedonism, growing turnips, justice, the moon, joy, and a dozen other concepts; it's just approaching a Karl Pilkerton sketch when you start saying "hmm yeah, Lliira is the goddess of happiness and all, but I'm just not feeling it" and then proceed to go down the entire list.

The patrician's path

>Sell your soul to the Devil
>The Devil pats you on the back and tells you he's proud of you
"Th... Thanks dad, I've always wanted to hear that"

Yes it is. You have to be honest a fervant in your faith to not get wall'd. Just paying a bit of lip service isn't enough. There's a lot more to selecting a deity than "they like X so I guess I'll worship them".

Kratos' brand of DIY atheism is fine for an evil character

Atheism in D&D is usually the following
>you don't think the gods are worth worshiping
>you don't think the gods are truly divine
>you hold active antipathy towards the concept of deities lording over you
Stuff like that.

Also, keep in mind most fucking people will never get the opportunity to do any of those things. The closest they get to the divine will most likely be an Adept saying his stuff came from X and you'll just have to take his word on it.

No, it isn't.
To be wall'd you have to be either Faithless or False
Being faithless means you either don't worship a god, your god is dead, or your god has specifically rejected accepting your soul
Being false meant you purposefully betrayed your god's teachings in life

Not worshipping your god enough or not caring enough about crops doesn't mean shit unless your god explicitly refuses to accept your soul, which no good-aligned god would ever do to even the most moderately sincere adherent.

No truly good aligned god would allow the wall of the faithless to stay up, but when that one god decided it was sadistic as fucking shit they reeee'd right along with all those evil diabolic one.

I do not understand how someone can read about Faerun gods and the faithless and conclude that they're all pretty much petty assholes and the wall is just a poor writing excuse to try to get players to like the authors shitty Mary Sues.

>Sell your soul and eternal afterlife to the prince of luck
>Have good luck

5e art is shit.

The Slayers already explained why this wouldn't work.

In the climax of the first season, Lina Inverse has to face a demon lord. She uses her most powerful spell, Dragon Slay/Slave, which is basically fucking Nuke from Final Fantasy

It has absolutely no effect. She then immediately realizes why - Dragon Slay draws upon a demon lord for power - that specific demon lord, actually. "It's like me asking you, to hurry up and help me kill you."

You can't beat a demon with their own power, putz. Can a cleric overthrow their own god with their prayers? Of course not.

That's just because the wall serves some inane cosmologically crucial service (which changes with every author)

It either physically keeps all the fiends from overrunning every plane in existence, or it props up the mechanism of how gods actually derive power from worship, or it keeps everyone from having to look at Kelemvor's spooky ass face or something

The point being that just because they oppose tearing down the horrible wall because doing so would be even more horrible doesn't make them petty asshole mary sues

>There's a lot more to selecting a deity than "they like X so I guess I'll worship them".
There literally isn't as anything besides the will of that deity, everything else is people who worship it fucking around and potentially muddling its message (and potentially frustrating that deity).
>Man the god of "just don't be horrible" sounds awesome!
>...but I don't think I like the colour some of his priests wear
>...and I bet if I don't go to the regular seminars on "how to not be horrible" that the church puts on I will basically be hitler despite not ever actually being horrible
>welp better sell my soul for an eternity of FATAL

>, or it props up the mechanism of how gods actually derive power from worship
This is still pretty fucking selfish.

>Train for a decade as a martial artist.
>Get to outrun most things that fly.
>Get to shrug of drops from outer space.
>Get to pretty much ignore most spells.
>Get to punch through steel.
>Get to kill people by touching them.
>Get immune to poison and dissease.
>Get the abillity to speak with everything.
>Stop aging.
>Stop needing to eat, shit and drink.
>Once you reach level 21 (At least in older editions) you get a form of immortality that doesn't fuck over your soul or rely on outside sources of power.

And most importantly
>Being a specialist at killing or disabling spellcasters in a spellcaster dominated world.

>You can't beat a demon with their own power
then dont use THEIR power

use THEIR power to obtain OTHER power, or powerful relics, or fell knowledge

and then use THAT to defeat the demons

The Wall of Faithless, originally created by Myrkul, functions to keep Faerun mostly free from the ravages of the eternal blood war and serves as a bargaining point with the Infernals and Abyssals. The Infernals come to the wall to barter with souls, offering them freedom from the wall in exchange for servitude. Abyssals just attack it and steal souls. In either case, the Wall fulfills a vital purpose - it keeps the Blood War OUT, and keeps the lower planes distracted with themselves. If the Lower Planes ever STOPPED fighting each other, they'd overwhelm everyone else. Attempts to remove it have been blocked by the other Gods, or Ao himself.

As it is, good prevails because evil is banal and self defeating. THAT is why FR is secretly a grim dark setting.

>The demon doesn't claim or carefully analyze anything you get

You work for the demon. Your very familiar, if you have one, is a spy for it. It's distantly aware every time you draw on it's energies. If you're successful at "flying under the radar" and not letting your patron know what your up to, skol. But generally, demons and devils are far, far smarter than humans and can see a betrayel or con coming from a mile away.

It's about 50/50 since all the gods dying means that all the good aligned afterlives and their innocent, deserving denizens get overrun and devoured by demons, devils, yugoloths, fey, planeshifting abberations, etc. while every person that ever dies then gets to spend eternity hanging around the lobby until getting shoved into a lower plane

>You work for the demon.
what pish

a cleric is effectively using the company credit card, thats why hes accountable

a warlock sucked the mob bosses dick for 10,000,000 dollars- what he does with that money is his business

No soul, no senses, nothing but your ability to think.

Eh, there's wizards who bargain for it or research the knowledge.
You don't need to obey any entity.

Angels can be corrupted, it's rare but it can happen.
Therefore, Devils can be redeemed.

>demons are inherently evil

I hate D&D's cosmology so fucking much. "Let's mash a bunch of Judeo-Christian ideas together with features of the European ancient and classical world."

There's non-evil Outsiders.
The Evil ones are classified as Devils, Demons or Yugoloth.
What's the issue?

So...like medieval europe?

>Tulpa SO HARD you learn to kill people with it
>summon all the things

Monks are always the most fun

>cucked to death by wizards, druids, clerics?, and bards

Tulpa?
Pls explain

Don't you tell me what my Ur-Priest can't accomplish! They'll fuck up any God! Name the time, place, and God!

It's a mentally ill tumblr thing

i know what is tulpa
i meant to ask if there's any class that uses tulpas as summmons

/x/ has been trying to fuck their tulpas since before tumblr was a thing...

tulpas exist but are not spiritual i mean
they imagine so strongly and for so much time that their brain begins to make it automatically you know

Somebody explain to me how warlock makes any sense or is a interesting idea most of the time

1. Like the cleric you put all your training into a art that can be taken away at the flip of a switch, unlike the cleric gods dont just smite people who wrong them in any small way or disobey them even a tiny bit
warlocks i suppose can more easily jump ship but then you get your old pact keepers minions after you and that's no fun
2. Like the cleric the warlock has things hes entitled to do, Unlike the cleric (most of the time) they will be horrendous and end up with either evil or crazy acts (though i do agree a GOO's quest could be pretty cool)
3. Warlocks are weak as fuck compared to wizard (spell casting wise) so playing a warlock results in using eldritch blast hundreds of time in the characters life span
4. Seriously what is to stop a demon or devil or fey or GOO or whatever you have a pact with from literally just cutting the fucking power off, since there are literally no written rules about this its GM fiat as to how this can be used and i think its more then reasonable that a fiendish lord or otherworldly god can just stop the power flow
its just a railroading tool at that point that we "should" call on but we dont want to cause its a dick move
Usually when a cleric or paladin looses their powers they fall down into oath breaker or something and it feels like it means something because they built up to disobeying the rules set right in front of them "dont do this because that will anger the rules you obey or the god that gives you power" and then when you ignore those rules and do it anyway for good or for evil you are punished it doesn't feel like a gm fucking you over
i love the ideas behind the class (in some cases) but Jesus Christ if it doesn't feel poorly executed

>4. Seriously what is to stop a demon or devil or fey or GOO or whatever you have a pact with from literally just cutting the fucking power off, since there are literally no written rules about this its GM fiat as to how this can be used and i think its more then reasonable that a fiendish lord or otherworldly god can just stop the power flow
If I'm not mistaken, the actual fluff is that the Patron teaches the Warlock certain arcane secrets that are the true foundation of their powers (e.g., what happens in Faust). But the stuff about there being a contract and them being another Charisma-based caster class (why?) muffles the issue.

Chauntea, comfy goddess of bread and circuses begs to differ.

Oh yeah i fucking forgot about that
that is what 5e does though just like with sorcerer
They cut a lot of spells from non wizards and to make up for the out of combat losses they make your main stat charisma so you can still convince people that you are a good dude while you bathe in baby blood for a demon lord
i guess thats reasonable as well that the warlock is taught secrets to power instead of it just being a pipe line of power that slowly gets bigger and better
A contract is one of those things that i would love to actually make and write out with my players
But like seriously attempting to barter out the rules lawyering ability of a demon/devil lord or a multidimensional being is fucking crazy, So its instead left into the wind on what the actual exacts of the contract are so its more or less just "i give you secret you give me job well done"

>But the stuff about there being a contract and them being another Charisma-based caster class (why?) muffles the issue
This.
Warlock should have been Int based.

1. Clerics in Eberron, for example, don't rely on any god. Their power can't be taken away.
2. You mean things he's supposed to do?
Entitled means he has the right to do them.
How much your Patron interferes with your life is up to the GM, just like the Gods.
3. This is true, Wizard, Sorcerer and Druid are better casters. Warlock is interesting in some other ways.
You can play Warlock to be mechanically powerful and even have a good RP build that works.
4. Your patron can't revoke your magic. Even if you actively work against them.

>Make Warlock PC
>DM never bring up mentor ever
Evil magic scott free

It mostly bothers me because it makes it difficult to play a creepy warlock, as I imagine at least SOME of them ought to be. C'mon, these are the kinds of people who contract with demons. Why are they all so persuasive as a rule?
I have a similar issue with Dexterity representing both agility, gymnastics, and manual dexterity, but that one's baked more into the system so I don't complain about it as much.

Charisma represents a bunch of behaviors, something like Assertiveness and responding to social queues and having compelling body language.
CEOs are smart and charismatic.
Con Artists are usually just charismatic.
Engineers are intelligent.

Faust was defined more by analytical intellect than by presence off character. In fact it took magic to make margareta fall in love with him in the first place.
I'd rather make them Int based and Cha secondary.

I don't see what any of that has to do with the ridiculous fact that 5e does not support warlocks who AREN'T charismatic.

The best good-faith explanation for the way the system does things is that the nature of their deal relies on bargaining with their Patron to get their powers, but I don't see why being able to carefully read a contract with a sometimes-incomprehensible being ought to be exclusively Charisma based, especially if the only way to communicate with whatever Patron they're talking about is virtually impossible without privileged information that can only be accessed by years of research... as represented by a good Intelligence score.

The blood war is a retarded setting concept.

Why should the neutral and 'good' forces not also have infinite armies?

2. yeah i did mean things he is supposed to do
and think about it a demon or devil would teach you arcane secrets only to be like "nah dude just roam the world and throw magic bolts are goblins"
it would on average be like a half a session quest every 2-3 sessions of regular stuff
3. Like i said i really do like warlock flavor wise even if i hate it mechanicly
4. That seems wrong where are you getting this from? because they cant "revoke" it but they can stop giving you more power preventing you from leveling up until you find a new patron

Its retarded because you don't like it? Neither evil being more numerous than good or good being balanced with evil is inherently better, so why the arbitrary change?

Being persuasive doesn't have to due to being a nice guy that everyone wants to help out. You could roleplay it as being so goddamn creepy no one who isn't a powerful caster themselves would dare say no to you. Being persuasive naturally also helps to explain how you were able to convince a powerful being into giving you powers in the first place. I do agree with you in principle. I don't like classes relying on just one or two stats to get the most out of their abilities. What if you want to play a barbarian that relies on clever tactics instead of just her strength? Or a dumb wizard that gets by on raw talent, but wouldn't sit down to study to save his life? You can still play the characters however you if your GM is a cool dude regardless of stats, but having alternative choices within a class would be nice.

>Like the cleric you put all your training into a art that can be taken away at the flip of a switch, unlike the cleric gods dont just smite people who wrong them in any small way or disobey them even a tiny bit
depends on how you do warlocks, you could do them like demon clerics but you dont have to

look at it this way

a wizard is someone who has a bank account full of money through hard work
a sorcerer has their parent money
a druid has the government to fund them
a cleric has the company credit card, and has potentially more money but more restrictions on that money
a warlock is someone who has a credit card from selling his kineys to the Mob- sure, its a risky move- but theres nothing stopping you from using that money to hire people to kill the mob. and its still your account