/SIFG/ - A Song of Ice and Fire General

Well there is the fact that the dothraki can starve a city to death in a few months. However, the Khans don't want to kill a fair few of their best warriors in leadership challenges while holding a siege, and the city masters don't want to risk a Khan being able to pull it off.

Interesting, thanks.

World of Ice and Fire has some top-notch waifu pictures.

As a related note, if anyone knows a high quality scan or other version of it in pdf form I'd love to be able to add it to the OP.

Hell, during the reign of one of the Targaryan kings whose name I can't be bothered to look up let alone remember, they were actually invaded and occupied by one of the Free Cities (which city I again can't remember but there's a 50% it was Tyrosh).

Is the miniatures game 28mm scale?

Yeah, "32mm" I think. Wish I knew what size the circular bases and the tray were though.

How wonky would they look beside some Warhammer models? I'm intending on supplementing my non-existent town guard for RPGs, and while I have the orcs/bad guys, these would be super nice to put on the table if they're similarly scaled.

It might help the orcs/beastmen look more scary if their models are a few mils taller.

True

Is this a /Stannis/ thread?

Ours Is The Fury, user.

I doubt they'll be any different overall. Maybe taller and thinner, I get the impression, but not terribly different. If they were looking for "industry standard" they would probably aim for matching GW, unless they went for historics, which average slightly smaller than GW's "heroic" scale.

THIS THREAD IS HIS BY RIGHT

>So am I wrong to assume that the Dothraki aren't really a threat to the Free Cities and that the latter pay off the former due more to convenience than survival?

Realistically, no, they shouldn't be.
But realistically knights on the battlefield shouldn't be wearing early 14th century-style plate armor and then maining a sword and a shield as their primary weapon choice and yet we've seen Westerosi knights do that, so I think we can basically just say that the warfare in the setting itself is highly unrealistic in terms of equipment and such but that the key component of proper numbers overwhelming the opponent definitely still applies.

> early 14th century

16th century, more like. We've got closed helmets, pauldrons, all the good stuff.

They had plate or "white" armour in the 15th century.

Sure, but not really high-tech close helmets. Pauldrons also weren't common.

Admittedly not, but the Lannister armour is anime-tier and anything outside the jousts (the richest lords in the kingdom) is generic fantasy furs and mesh chainsmail, with the odd 15th-century helmet thrown in for some reason.

You read the books or what? Practically every nobleman and knight has plate armour in Westeros, even in the North.

Which of the Seven Kingdoms (including all nine constituent regions) is your favorite?

Personally I like the North. The history, its aesthetics, the differences in culture, houses and sigils, etc.

But is it full-15th century stuff or just partial plating?

I'm a Starkfag/Northfag myself, but I honestly think the Vale would be the comfiest place to live.

Maybe. But it seems cramped in the Vale proper, with the rest being mountainous, rocky shorelines, and full of REEEEEEing clansmen.

The Arbor is best answer.

I like the Stormlands.

Baratheon sigil is cool too. Especially Stannis's.

...

According to Gurm himself, mail is much more common in the North then plate, which is found most often among the Southron lords.
That said, apparently Westeros actually HAS technologically developed and improved over time; kite shields are noted to be a very old fashioned form of shield, and during the Dunk and Egg novelllas taking place some 90 years before the main series no plate mail is seen at any point and Dunk only teaches Egg about how to find the best sort of mail.

Dorne.
Warm climates, food I enjoy, able to converse women as equals rather then do that sex-life killing "stay in the kitchen" thing, and sexuality is a bit more openly accepted.
But seriously; the food. Dornish food sounds delicious.

>Ibben
>Skagos
>Thenn
Why is George RR Martin so fond of creating cool viking/norse civilizations and then immediately doing literally nothing with them?

>The Vale
I hope you like getting raped by hairy neanderthals in the forest and not being able to petition your lord about it because he's a pedantic child (literally) who throws people out of a 100 story drop as a first, last, and only response to criminal behavior

>>Skagos
>>Thenn
Viking is clearly not the primary inspiration for them.

sorry, viking was a poor choice of words. I meant 'icy barbarian types', which, in uncultured layman terms, most people say 'viking'.

>able to converse women as equals rather then do that sex-life killing "stay in the kitchen" thing
lol you wouldn't have to talk to women like they're shit just because you don't live in Dorne

and fyi not all of Dorne treats women as near-equals legally

Hey guys I googled around and didn't see anything. You know the old saying:

>What is dead cannot die, but rises again, harder and stronger?

Is it just me or do the Ironborn worship the Others without clearly realizing it? Lots of wildlings do, after all. Imagine some faction of wildlings in ancient times escapes to the Iron Islands to raid and pillage while they wait for the inevitability of the Others destroying the world. Meanwhile, they worship them, especially the wights, for being dead and then rising again in a stronger form-- and try to ritually and symbolically emulate them.

And what a drowning, right? The man gets drowned in the sea, ritually dying. Then the priest breathes new life into him, a second life where his old past is burned away. I bet for wildlings who felt cowardly for running from the War for the Dawn, the idea of being rezzed as a superior warrior unencumbered by sentiment or humiliating memories would be pretty cool.

Anyway, there's no way I'm the first person to think of this. Does anybody have a link to a thread on here or westeros.org or something where people discuss the idea?

Will they make Gendry the new head of House Baratheon?

Skagos should show up in the next book.

How do people feel about Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of His Name being the true heir to the Iron Throne?

Gentlemen...

How do we remove the Dothraki? They are the problem of Essos, holding back civilizational development and preventing people from trading or even living in most of the continent.

It's possible but unlikely, since technically it's NOT the Others that are coming back to life, just wights.
The Drowned God religion is just unpleasant and grim and about death and drowning because all they know culturally is death and drowning.
Ironically that fucking religion is quite literally the thing that's been holding back their entire culture from actually making any real forward progess and any time any Ironborn king made any actual forward progress they got fucked over by the goddamn Drowned Priests.

Balon's father for instance was apparently an awesome guy and his son basically threw it all away to go play pirate.

Alchemist's Fire all over the Great Grass Sea. Starve their horses, and the Dothraki starve with them.

But then the fire will spread. It burns earth and dirt too, remember?

>Will they make Gendry the new head of House Baratheon?
I think the setup for that is pretty obvious. They even fucking acknowledge it in the show after forgetting him, and the show tends to just ignore any long-term foreshadowing the novels do.
>How do people feel about Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of His Name being the true heir to the Iron Throne?
Fine with it. Dany's a well-meaning ruler but has serious temper control issues and could use someone who's more level-headed fucking the crazy out of her a bit more often.
It'd be unpleasant for Jon though, as he hates being in charge and as King he's in charge of fucking everything.
You're so wrong I don't even know where to start.

The Reach is my favorite. Best farmland, most people, and biggest city on the continent.

It's like Africans in post-colonial Africa. They go straight back to tribal power politics, which is what the "iron price" is all about, instead of working for the good of their people. And they're all like
>Fuck trading, I wanna pirate
>Oh no, we got whipped in battle
>Well I'm going to get revenge by pirating
ad infinitum

>It'd be unpleasant for Jon though, as he hates being in charge and as King he's in charge of fucking everything.
But I'm pretty sure Jon isn't going to be called Aegon in the books. I'm talking about the real Aegon.

exactly. So what? All the important Essos countries are either fortified with enormous stone walls, or actually islands.

The Dothraki are mostly a non-problem outside the Dothraki Sea, only attacking vulnerable settlements.
There's three mentioned thriving civiliazations (Free Cities, Slaver's Bay, Quarth) on Essos and multiple lesser ones as well, and the Free Cities collectively practically outstrip Westeros in terms of wealth and political influence, especially Braavos who has a bank with such a fearsome reputation that they are known for ruining entire kingdoms if you default on their loans.

Stone also burns in wildfire though. Nothing stops wildfire from burning except when it burns itself out.

Right, but the Dothraki limit trade and communication to only being on the oceans. If they could reuse the Valyrian roads and start actually developing the interior, they could open up a lot of resources for exploitation. Not just metals and ores, but arable land and other things.

Which again would probably happen before it fucked up the Bearded Priests or Braavos or Quarth or Ibben or anywhere even remotely important.

It's a plot reveal that will be in the books.
The showrunners have barely fucking read the things, that's obvious enough. They likely think the only Aegon is that Conquering guy, and that's just because he's been mentioned several times.
Jon Snow having a proper name fits his history, and his bastard name is exactly the kind of unimaginative crap Ned would think up on the spot while being unable to think up an actual backstory about who he fucker for this random kid.
I mean, he basically named him "John Smith".

If you mean Egg II with Connington, I'm pretty sure his last name isn't Targaryen if you know what I mean.

The free cities are what's holding back civilization. Sure, their civilization is better than Westeros' right now, but it's also not going to change anytime soon unless someone gets to conquering them.

>Alchemist's Fire all over the Great Grass Sea.

I don't think the logistics of that really add up.

Maybe you would be better importing some of that ghost grass from Asshai, but I feel like ruining the entire ecosystem of Essos could have consequences for everyone.

Invent guns.

>If you mean Egg II with Connington, I'm pretty sure his last name isn't Targaryen if you know what I mean.
I'm pretty sure he is a true Targaryen.

There's no real evidence that the Dothraki do anything like that.
In fact the history book suggests that the biggest thing the Dothraki have done was sack precisely ONE major civilization and then proceeded to be an annoying but ignorable problem.

I mean surely Valyria will be inhabitable again... Eventually? Maybe? Around the same time Sothryos stops magically killing everyone that sets foot on it?

Actually the history book and the in-book lore about the Dothraki say they attack any and all cities within reach because building homes and farming is raping the Earth Mother.

I seriously doubt it.
Varys is a liar, pure and simple. He might have relatively noble motivations for lying, but he IS a liar. We haven't even seen Egg II's real hair color yet; it might not even be Valyrian. We're basically trusting a liar and Connington, a man who is so broken up over the death of the man he loved that he is willing to consider ANYTHING as long as he gets to somehow preserve his memory, including not question very hard where a random kid Varys showed up with came from.
Besides that, the Blackfyres have a LONG history with the Golden Company, and while supposedly Malys killed his brother Aegon and Malys was the last, who don't know where Aegon Blackfyre came from or who he was married to or whom he fucked.

The Blackfyres marrying back into the main line along with Rhaegar's bastard son also had a kind of poetic symmetry to it, though that's likely not a factor here.

Remember Krakatoa?

>We haven't even seen Egg II's real hair color yet
Didn't we see it in ADOD in the Griffin's Roost?

Valyria is fucking underwater.
Speaking of, there actually IS a reasonable non-sorcerous explanation for the Doom and how it's still rules over it.

>The Longinch himself wore black enameled plate[...]

> "What do I want with some old done nag and a sack of dinted plate and rusty mail?"

> "The accusers will be armed with heavy war lances for the first charge. Lances of ash, eight feet long, banded against splitting and tipped with a steel point sharp enough to drive through plate with the weight of a warhorse behind it."

> The old knight stood outside the tower door, wearing his mail and plate

> [...]he hacked at Inchfield's arms and side and legs, but his plate turned every stroke.

> Ser Uthor wore green enamel plate and silvery chain mail.

So no.

Not that I recall, and since I was actively looking for it (because I was suspicious of Varys' claim immediately) I believe the kid's hair is still dyed blue.
That said, Jon has black hair and so did Ellia Martell so the Valyrian features might be recessive genes.

It seemed to me that whenever the Targaryens mated with an outside bloodline, the first children born will have traits of the outsider bloodline but then later offspring acquire Targaryen characteristics. That's why Baelor was very Dornish-looking but Maekar was a typical Targaryen.

Since Jon was the first Stark/Targ child, it makes sense that he looks very Northern.

That was usually because they tended to marry other Targs later on I think.

Maekar was Baelor's little brother. While Baelor was very Dornish, his brothers Aerys, Rhaegal, and Maekar were very Targaryen. The same was true of Baelor's sons; Daeron had Dornish hair, but Aerion, Aemon, and Aegon were pure Targaryen.

I remember reading a theory somewhere that one of the reasons for the near-uniformity of appearance of those from Valyrian stock is that Valyrians are not actually human in the sense that they are a related species capable of interbreeding with us like Neanderthal man was.
I think a parallel was drawn between Moorcock's Melniboneans (who were "not of men" but still looked human), which Gurm is at least passingly familiar with given Bloodraven's whole deal.

I'm not sure I actually agree with it, since some of the evidence can easily just be explained as the mild fantastic but not technically magical elements that he's fond of using, but it was an amusing theory nonetheless.

I'd be inclined to disbelieve it but apparently beast-men are a thing, and hard biological adaptations within humans exists (eg Butterfly island immunity) so it makes a bit more sense to me that it's medium-fantasy biological difference rather than involving a higher level of magic.
That, and Essos seems to have more magic than Westeros. What do you think of the Maester conspiracy theory?

I think it's a bit far-fetched.
I think the real reason Maesters aren't big on magic is the same reason basically everyone rose isn't big on it; it's unreliable, finicky, doesn't seem to function on any sort of consistent logic or reasoning, and there's no real way to study it consistently and safely.
To a group of scientists and historians like the Maesters it would be annoying as shit; they wouldn't try to "remove" it at all because that's not really how they work, but most would ignore it and could safely assume it doesn't exist or can be easily ignored since it doesn't work very often and doesn't make any damn sense anyway.

It'd be like getting a PhD in a discipline you can't prove, can't use, can't study, and can't even consistently prove it exists.

>It'd be like getting a PhD in a discipline you can't prove, can't use, can't study, and can't even consistently prove it exists.
I'm pretty sure people do that all the time.

Maesters do get chains in magic though, it's something they effectively monopolised in Westeros, save for Targ dragons, the knowledge of which was never codified and increasingly diluted over the three centuries...

since we should talk at least a little about the rpg, has anyone ever seen anyone actually do anything with the magic supplement or even know how to use whats already there?

I've been cracking my head over trying to make a few spells for a player to use.

I haven't seen a less intuitive system, desu.

I guess it confirms that Griff in the books is a fake.

>I'm pretty sure he is a true Targaryen.

If you really believe that I have a lovely estate in Valyria to sell you...

riddle of steel's magic system might serve as a replacement but i dont really know, i just know the two settings have similar approaches to sorcery. i might try to hunt down a pdf to see if its any good

If you're talking about the official magic add-on for Chronicle (the system SIFRP runs on) then, yeah, it's basically unplayable. I'm not even speaking in hyperbole there; IIRC it doesn't even explain how to include quantitative factors like how much X a spell does or how much Y it costs. You'll basically have to homebrew your own system from scratch.

The other option I would offer you if you're looking to play an aSoIaF game that goes beyond what the Green Ronin game can do is to just take your preferred generic system - d6, True20, Omni, the upcoming Genesys - and use whatever options are available to make it a low-powered, high-lethality game. SIFRP is a decent game but it doesn't really do anything other systems won't that are necessary for aSoIaF. Another option would be HARP, which is basically Rolemaster but actually playable.

i dont know, aerys had a whole bunch of bastards and grandbastards and the prophetic warning is the mummer's dragon implying a dragon belonging to a mummer rather than a mummers dragon implying the dragon is a work of mummery

If you wanted to run ASoIaF in a game which was not the two published, which would you recommend?

maybe try riddle of steel/blade of the iron throne/song of swords and import over the house system

Stop making fun of economics.