So, Veeky Forums, how do we fix the cancer that's killing the setting?

Setting is fine, you'll live.

>Even Tyranids can have parasitic fleets which adapted to leeching from bigger fleets as their survival strategy.
They already do that. Hive fleets feed off each other anyway. And one is even actively focused on hunting other hive fleets.

Parasitism means different kind of relations. Usually fleets fight to death and consume the defeated fleet with all its biomass and potential genetic information.

The setting has never been so shitty

>Retcon absurd giant Primarchs and dick waving contests they emdoby.
What? The HH is probably one of the best parts of the fluff.
>emdoby
>Finally give each xeno race its own different factions with different goals.
Again what? Every faction has different factions within it. Theres dozens of Imperial factions, Chaos has different alignments, legions, types of daemon, Eldar have numerous craftworlds, Crons have different dynasties. The list goes on.
>Maybe show us one of the larger human territories outside Imperial control.
There's enough human factions as it is, and renegade people almost always fall to Chaos.
>And of course tone down Chaos nonsense.
What did he mean by this.

This guy gets it

>The HH is probably one of the best parts of the fluff.
This.

This here.

This is what's choking the life out of the setting.

Neat. I hope they really start pushing that in the fluff

>The HH is probably one of the best parts of the fluff
"Marines vs Marines, the game"

And? Do you have any criticism of the story or do you just hate it because
>muh reens are stupid

>What did he mean by this
Chaos is eternal, timeless, destined to consume the galaxy no matter what. They are responsible, directly or indirectly, for basically every event, and they can and will corrupt basically anything that steps out of line with imperial doctrine. There are only four chaos gods, and they act in very predictable ways. They have no good side or benefits to worship. You just get tricked into getting mad and bang, Corn has your soul forever now.

It's become a boring race of one note Mary sues who constantly lose but not really guys we had this secret secondary objective all along which means we win .
They're the equivalent of the kid on the playground who absolutely won't take a loss and goes on about his secret doubleplus infinity force field or whatever when somebody shoots him

>destined to consume the galaxy no matter what.
So were the Tyranids. Also the Chaos gods manufactured the HH specifically because the Emperor was on track to destroy them, so no.

>They are responsible, directly or indirectly, for basically every event
They are the main antagonist of the setting. Of course in the battle of Chaos v Imperium, Chaos will be up to shit. Plenty of factions have almost no relations with chaos whatsoever.

Tau don't fuck around with Chaos.
Dark Eldar just ignore the Chaos god they created.
Necrons are totally immune.
Nids, same thing.
How can you say it's omnipresent when basically all the xenos have a tangental relationship at best with chaos.

>They have no good side or benefits to worship.
Power. Chaos champions are given huge power to wield though dark magic, with the eventual reward of immortality through ascension to daemonhood. In fact the possiblity of becoming a daemon prince is far beyond anything the other factions have in terms of reward.

I've been wanting to get into 40K for awhile now, but only know the basic fluff. Can someone give me a rundown on what the "cancer" is? Are we talking narrative shitiness or something with the game itself?

GW has recently tried to advance the plot with mixed results. For the longest time there was basically a stalemate between Chaos and the Imperium and Xenos.

Marines have more HQs than other factions have total units

people are just whinging about the new elements they don't like

>Eldar have numerous craftworlds
They are just craftworlds with thier unique hats. One is craftworld of bikers, other is craftworld of psykers, etc. Even larger hive planets essential for Imperium survival like Armaggeddon deserve to have dozen different factions. Given how crucial are major craftworld for Eldar survival as a race, it's unforgivable. Each of the major craftworld could have its own factions, different Paths confronting each other.

Another thing lacking about Eldar lore is their connections with minor races and trade. Craftworld were created by survivalist and traders, they are supposed to have millenia long connections and cultural ties with other races. Not only that, Eldar webway grants them ability to travel outside Imperial reach limited by Astronomicon. In the human worlds outside the Imperium Eldar could be the major trading partner. It's not all, Eldar could have access to the worlds cut out by warpstorms or homeplanets of the races which Imperium decided to ignore or postpone extermination. It's really weird that their possible role as traders who connect different world and races smothered by the blanket of Imperial control is not expanded at all. Alternatively they could help said minor or non-Imperial human planets to hamper Imperium expansion. Their role as traders and diplomats isn't shown at all.

Dark Eldar are barebones too. Given that Dark Eldar can't use psychic powers their technology should be vastly different from their Craftworld cousins. Imagine that every member of your race has remote control device in his head (Eldar innate psychic powers), unsurprisingly all their technology, mundane or otherwise, would be designed around this fact. Now Dark Eldar can't change batteries in their devices or else big bad trans will eat their souls. It means that Dark Eldar simply couldn't retain their previous technology and wealth and would probably scavenge alien technology, even DAoT human tech for good bits.

I'm super happy Bobby G and the Boys in Blue are taking it to Chaos now. I've never been happier. The only way I could be happier is if Sanic, Doggo, Punch McCrunch, and Leomon all came back too, and they all teamed up to bring down the remaining traitors together, unified under one banner to fulfill their father's dream, without the arrogance and jealousy that tore them apart ten thousand years ago, and then I could buy some nice fucking figures of them for sub $100 to put on my shelf. All of that, and I would be in an ideal world

>So were the Tyranids.

No. That's dumb. That was never stated.

>HH specifically because the Emperor was on track to destroy them, so no.

Nope, he was going to cut off humanity from Chaos and prevent Chaos from destroying the galaxy by using mankind as its means. The Webway project was the Emperor way to achieve this. Once the Chaos Gods destroyed the Webway they lost all their interest in the HH and allowed Horus to lose.

> Plenty of factions have almost no relations with chaos whatsoever.

All factions are counted to Chaos in some way or another/

>Tau don't fuck around with Chaos.

Farsight, his daemon sword, and the prophecies about him falling to the power of Chaos. The Ethereals knowing about Chaos and hiding the truth about it. Their race had a hidden faction that designed them to be less of a bait for Chaos but clearly nowadays that's failing as Chaos is coming for the Tau in force.

>inb4 its not a daemon sword

Phil Kelly novel showed that there is an evil entity residing inside the sword.

>Dark Eldar just ignore the Chaos god they created.

No, they don't. They hunt Chaos dudes and have made neutral and even friendly relations with them.

>Necrons are totally immune.

No, they are. They can be corrupted and possessed. Like what happened recently with Lucius corrupting and possessing a Necron assassin.

>Nids, same thing.

Them too are not immune. Tyranids have been corrupted and made to serve Chaos as beasts of burden or war-spawn

Dude, you are a fucking racist against Chaos. How can you justify this amount of ignorance about a faction of people? Only racists are that ignorant.

Proof for the corrupted Necrons.

>919.M41 THE DAEMON’S TOMB

>The Daemon Prince Shukketh Voidmaw infects the tomb world of Vorketh with the taint of Chaos. Vorketh’s regent awakens to find his crypts transformed, and his legions already locked in battle.

>The Eternal Duellist

>Lucius the Eternal leads a motley warband across the galaxy on the trail of the deadliest opponents his network of admiring torture-cultists can locate for him. He intends to hunt down the best melee fighters in the galaxy and beat them in one-on-one combat or die in the attempt. Over the course of several centuries he defeats the Dark Eldar Archon Vraesque in cursed Shaa-dom, the Emperor’s Champion of the Black Templars at Veilfate, and the Ork Warboss Two-klaws at Octarius Sigma.

>Eventually, on a nameless moon near Damnos, Lucius is cut down by the shape-shifting Necron duellist known only as the Phasing Sword. Not even the Necron’s body of living metal can prevent the Slaaneshi champion’s strange possession-curse from taking hold, however, for it takes a cold pride in its victory, and that is the seed of its undoing. Lucius is reborn inside his killer within days, the xenos warrior’s body drizzling away to reveal the twisted swordsman, as arrogant and maniacal as ever.

Only idiots say that "X" is immune to Chaos. NOZING is immune to Chaos and that's the point. Chaos is entropy and in the material realm entropy is king. There are thing that can resist entropy more than others but in the end entropy is going to win.

Carnac, do you understand that Chaos is so bland and boring that many people want this?
>tone down Chaos nonsense
You are just proving that point by showing how according to GW writers everything must be tied to the borefest which is Chaos.

Follow the chain post, idoita. He was relaying faulty information about Chaos and I corrected him. I don't care about your shitty opinion about Chaos, I care that the discourse be accurate to the lore so you people can have an informed discussion.

I don't care about your opinion either, Carnac. You must be the only person besides ADB enjoying this crappy lore.

I stated no opinion. Only factoids from the lore. Stop replying to me. You're wasting both of our times, you (You)whore.

Whatever you say

...

Shit, man. Better lay off the Arnold presses, you've got 'UGE shoulders.

Beep boop get of my lawn

I think they stifle creativity and the push for primarines has set us back a good 5 years as far as development is concerned.

Eventually they will phase out OG marines and replace it with new stuff but until then every other faction in this game is going to go without.

I get that people like marines, but we literally have a setting just for marines in FW. I want some desparate attention to model lines approaching several decades old.

Yeah, the issue isn't that space marines exist, it's that they fill (or are intended to fill) basically every gameplay and thematic niche instead of just being the elite heavy hitters of the imperial Army. If they'd kept them to a fairly small selection of highly specialised units that only excelled in small battles or as the strike element of a larger guard force (how they are repeatedly portrayed in early fluff) rather than being jack of all trades apparently happy to grind their numbers down in any and all fights going, there may have been a bit more chance of other factions maintaining a foothold. Dropping the vicious psycho space thug image in favor of noble demi gods hadn't helped either.

>the issue isn't that space marines exist, it's that they fill (or are intended to fill) basically every gameplay and thematic niche instead of just being the elite heavy hitters of the imperial Army
So much this

>In fact the possiblity of becoming a daemon prince is far beyond anything the other factions have in terms of reward.

Necrons will become C'tan eventually or laugh at the heat death of the universe. Even Chaos can't exist without mortals.

>What? The HH is probably one of the best parts of the fluff.

Good, keep it in the fucking HH then. The glory days are gone, that's the point. The universe is a bleak and futile struggle against the impending doom. There are no more legends, heroes flicker and die without notice. No goodies and baddies, no grand sweeping narratives.

Wow, that plot is really dumb. They've really gone far from the "Emotionless Robot Killers" the Necrons used to be.

Shame since they're my favourite race.

>Chaos is entropy and in the material realm entropy is king.

Actually Chaos is the opposite of entropy, they are self-motivating and the random possiblity to resist entropy.

Also, Lucius took the body. The Necron probably respawned in a new one after it's living metal was compromised.

check and mate. Also the excerpt conflicts with all other sources. Necrons don't have emotions (at least real ones) they are incapable of feeling pride because true emotion requires a soul.

You are trying to argue monism is a deulist universe

>chaos is muh omnipotent entropy and lovercraftian
Hey, remember when Necrons where the Lovercraftian horror of the universe while Chaos was very much the product of sentient life's subconsciousness and they were the opposite of Lovercraftian in that they were extremely invested into enslaving humanity since we're the only species that managed to survive their undermining without becoming a complete shadow and how the whole conflict with Chaos was also a metaphor about how the nobility and higher aspirations of man fight against his baser nature and the question is can mankind overcome it's dark impulses and desires to stand in the light? Cause that shit was awesome.
Fuck ADB and his cronies.

^^this^^

Keep 30k in 30k this is suppose to be its own setting.

> Erase this guilliman / Primaris nonsense, retcon the new marines to a new armour type in truscale
> Erase about 70% of the current marine range, specifically all the goofy shit (thunder wolves, sanguinary guard, the Death wing with maces and dresses, the dreadknight) and anything that allows them to fulfill the role that other imperial forces are supposed to occupy (air support, heavy armour)
> Develop more background on diverse imperial factions and xenos, not just the TM'd races with existing plastic kits
>Reintroduce the grey to the morality of all factions, employ a little more satire, (subtle) parody and fun into the concepts and background.

Farsights sword is a crone blade, not a daemon sword.

>Tyranids have been corrupted and made to serve Chaos as beasts of burden or war-spawn
Oh boy, can't wait for a source for this

It still is, don't let the wank confuse you, Chaos is only a threat to the Eldar and humans in pretty much the whole of the fiction's overarching story.

Pylons are still plot critical, Nulls are still a thing, bullets still kill demons, the waagh is immune to fuckery, the shadow of the warp still fucks psykers, demons still can't manifest without mortals and Abadabadoo is still in charge of the whole of the traitors.

The galaxy is actually pretty safe once the human problem starts getting fixed.

>Actually Chaos is the opposite of entropy

Nah, the developer of Chaos said its cosmic entropy.

>Also, Lucius took the body. The Necron probably respawned in a new one after it's living metal was compromised.

Nope, doesn't work like that. Newcron lords have been permantely destroyed before when they failed to phase out due to internal damage to his phasor. For example when Captain Cato targetted the area where the Necron phase device was located with a sword thrust which resulted in a Necron Lord dying forever. Lucius corrupted the Necron from within meaning his phasing device was also corrupted alongside everything else.

> Necrons don't have emotions (at least real ones) they are incapable of feeling pride because true emotion requires a soul.

False. Newcrons have emotions. Even the stunted warriors. Psykers can see a faint spoor of emotion radiating from the Necrons. The Newcron noblity and higher castes are notorious for being extremely prideful creatures.

Like I said, racism.

Personally, I blame Tyranidfags. They ruin everything.

>Even Chaos can't exist without mortals.

Wrong, the Warp does not acknowledge time and Chaos doesn't require mortals to exist.

Don't need a soul to get swole

Well there are dynasties that are still driven by a cold hatred of all life. I happen to like my goofy skeletor-ass saturday morning cartoon Overlord.
>"Foolish Farseer, at last we meet again for the first time..."

So what are our Grandpa robots up to anyways? It seems like we're taking a back seat this edition.

And by "backseat" I mean we're in the trunk with the blueberries.

>the developer of Chaos
Is this like official position within GW?

>Farsights sword is a crone blade, not a daemon sword.

Crone Swords, as far as I know, are not usually found in Chaos temples and they do not contain malefic entities.

>Oh boy, can't wait for a source for this

"Storm of Iron". Iron Warrior infect a Hiveship with the Destroyer virus and then drag it to the Eye to complete its corruption. It was then used as a Chaos titan transport.

"Daemon World". The dominating Slaaneshi faction of the daemon world has Tyranid slaves working in their bone mines. Used as beasts of burden, they are forced to use their crusher claws to dig and breaking the planets bone.

>Genestealer cults land on a planet, impregnate someone
> hive world is now doomed, its a matter of time before a full tryanid fleet follows the psychic signal to food
>no one can leave the planet to warn anyone due to the imperium not having freedom of movement
> no one is warned, nids kill everyone, imperium exterminatus planet

>orcs land on a planet
>as soon as orcs land they begin to make spores, planet is now infected and there will never not be orcs
> no one was warned, everyone dies, best solution to re-build is exerminatus

> planet is about to fall to chaos
> constant meatgrinder of imperial guard troops
> not an interesting conflict, however, because chaos only has to win once to corrupt the planet. humans just fighting waves in fortifications. Its like this setting doesn't know how to write that isn't a last stand!
>chaos wins one battle, now exterminatus is the best solution

>invent new anti-nid/ork/chaos weapon so that the imperium doesn't have to exerminatus every planet
> get arrested and excecuted for heresy, chest cut open to look for chaos mutations

This is my problem with 40k. The actions of the imperium, as well as the inevitable win-conditions of the enemies they fight means that there is literally no where for the story to go. For tabletop you have to hand-waive exceptions to imperial BS to get anywhere, and even then your inquisitor is going to go insane, your guardsman is going to die, or we had to write in special exceptions for your snowflake rouge traders.

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. I guess this also excludes plot advancement.
if you take it as satire, however, the memes are pretty damn funny

Yea, but the whole nuance of Chaos' rivalry (because that's exactly what it was) is gone. Now it's just ''muh omnipotent eternal satans play games'' as opposed to ''we need to finish what we started and grind these assholes down along with the rest before they evolve enough to destroy us''. Also, Horus Heresy was a HUGE deal for Chaos, because they took out the only being more powerful then them, stopped his plan to cut off their influence, got an insane amount of power and elite followers and almost enslaved humanity in the process. They were fucking scared of Big E, calling him Anathema, having to steal his sons while he's away (because the wards he placed where so powerful they couldn't kill them) and generally just staying out of his way and working together to undermine him extremely subtly. Now they're making it out like he was just a nuisance, HH was just a game, and what they did to the character of The Emperor, i'm not even gonna discuss.
>guy gives everything he has and is to give humanity a chance with no personal gain
>hurr, surely he's an evil tyrant
Fuck that abused pussy ''writer''.

Is there any re-writes where Necrons still actually seem like an unstoppable threat which I can pretend is canon? I'm really starting to stop caring about GW canon.

Tbh I think they need to kill off The Silent King and all this go back to biological bodies bullshit. Get a Dynasty that finally reigns in all the others to start a major purging of the galaxy.

How to spot Carnac, beyond the obvious
>is a fucking retard
>is extremely smug about it

>storm of iron
>daemon world
Welp, I know what I'm doing for the day

I just automatically assume he's present whenever a thread gets derailed with autistic slap fights about chaos.

>it's anons who only got into 40k in 2010 at best start crying

>LET ME IGNORE THE FLUFF. IT"S NOT LIKE THE FLUFF WILL PROGRESS ACCORDING TO WHATS WRITTEN

Idiot.

Chaos is a threat to everything that exists within the galaxy. Humanity is the only force holding it back for dissolving the galaxy into warp soup.

>demons still can't manifest without mortals

What do you call all those warpstorms or Warp incursions where no mortal exist?

The racism is real.

No, you wanted personality and you got it at the expense of everything else. You made your tomb and now lay in it.

To have a personality means you are prey to Chaos.

Except when GW does do the goofy satirical self people start screeching it's 'retarded'. Like that AoS Nurgle unit.

Lol, as if this has never been a problem before

>Like that AoS Nurgle unit
I prefer to remain ignorant. Everything Age of Smegma shats out is retarded and cringy

Except it's coming to 40k, so tough shit. Hating a thing that's more successful than WHFB ever was isn't going to go away because you call it EPIC NAMES on a Burmese Etch-a-Sketch animation board. The fact you're 'ignorant' proves you don't even go to 40k threads, or Veeky Forums. It was everywhere when announced.

He's right, it's basically people who've got into this setting in 2010, if not in 2016 due to LE EPIC EMPEROR TRUMP memes are crying a thing isn't the way they want it to be.

>implying the guy had any idea of the true meaning of entropy besides 'baaaah random shit ueeeeh'

You forgot something else
>99% correct about EVERYTHING

>In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. I guess this also excludes plot advancement
Absolutely 100%. You want that spoonfed Saturday morning cartoon shit, fuck off to L5R or, better yet, get a subscription to a bunch of marvel comics and then fucking hang yourself. You are the cancer OP is talking about. 'Durr, can't do imagination, tell me what to think, GW. Also tell me what action figures to play with'.
Fucking cunt.

>that's more successful than WHFB ever was
>
>The fact you're 'ignorant' proves you don't even go to 40k threads, or Veeky Forums. It was everywhere when announced.
Maybe I have been busy? Life doesn't revolve around your plastic figures

>Entropy is the collapse of all systems of order
>Order is even a byproduct entropy
>Chaos seeks to destroy all systems of order in all its forms. Physical and metaphysical. Even seeks to destroy itself
>"Order" factions ultimate draw their power Chaos and their opposition to Chaos empowers it

He got it right.

2k10 was 7 years ago grandpa, every 40k player isn't a 40 something neckbeard crying about 'muh kids these days'

>Like that AoS Nurgle unit.
I haven't been looking for AoS updates. What was it?

> not understanding the difference between subtle parody and tongue in cheek and going full retard with goofy looking cad sculpt.
Also, If you steadily churn out grimdark, Po-faced grimdark nonsense for decades and then shit out a ham fisted attempt at being 'a bit crazy' with a lazy cad turd, you're not going to get the best response.

>He's right, it's basically people who've got into this setting in 2010, if not in 2016 due to LE EPIC EMPEROR TRUMP memes are crying a thing isn't the way they want it to be.
I don't get your point

Tfw entropy meaning anything outside of physics is a meme but people start buying it

But user entropy sounds so cool and sophisticated when you apply it to random shit

>Hating a thing that's more successful than WHFB ever was isn't going to go away

>Thing A sells more than Thing B
>Thing A must be better! Hurr-durr!
You must be a special kind of normie retard to believe that

The only victory condition we really have is if all the remaining tombs woke up and united, they'd be unstoppable but we all know that ain't happening.

You made me namefag just so I can do this.

>people mostly saying they hate new lore and discussing the old one
>autist screeching ''IT BE LIEK DIS'' in every thread
Nah, just a retard.

user, please, Necrons have the scariest and most dangerous winning condition of anyone in the setting.

Wrong.

The anons I am replaying to weren't saying that "Chaos should be X". They were saying that that "people saying that Chaos should be X are wrong and that in the fluff Chaos is actually Y". I disagreed and rightfully told those anons that Chaos is not Y. It's FUCKING ZEEED.

youtube.com/watch?v=06OzHwkV3bA

Is that a necron win condition or a c'tan win condition?

You do realise you just agreed with and illustrated the point you were trying to refute right? I'm mean, I know you're mentally deficient, but even you have to be getting embarrassed by now.

>reminding me those two are now different things
HOW DO YOU WANT YOUR SETTING SENPAI

>Literally nothing about corrupting Necrons, just destroying them
>Carnac claims it's about corrupting Necrons

The Void Dragon was sharded and the Dragon of Mars is just a shard of it.

>912.M41 THE GOD SHADOW
>A shard of the Void Dragon escapes from its imprisonment, laying waste to the Arotepk Dynasty in its mindless rage. Though only a faint shadow of a true C’tan, the Void Dragon gorges itself on a dozen worlds, expending its fury upon the living before the Arotepk Crypteks can finally force it back into its cage.

C'tan shards are roughly and depending on size range from Greater Daemon to exalted Greater Daemon power levels.

youtube.com/watch?v=zVoNAqGbi74
Superior video

>Slaanesh sensed the cold pride in the Necron and had Lucius possess the Necrons body and take it over transforming it into a new him.

You do realise that you are incapable of reading English? He is a moron and so is you. I did not once did I response to any saying that Chaos should be changed to this or that. I only responded to the anons that are arguing with them.

Seriously, like I said. Racism. It clouds the mind and makes you dumb.

respond*

>Lucius pops out of a Necron body thanks to a ooga booga magic
>Body is explicitly melted in the process
>Obviously that means the Necron inside was corrupted
Carnac everyone.

Not anymore. Chaos is apparently completely divorced from needing mortals for anything, and could totally exist still in a barren lifeless galaxy. Hypothetically according to nuChaos lore, even if the galaxy had been sterilized and made devoid of any life sentient or no prior to any event, then all of the Chaos gods would still be fine and the same as they are now. If you went back and prevented the creation of the Eldar, Slaanesh would still exist.

It's terminal. The novelty of 8th will wear off sooner than later. Best to go ahead and abandon ship while you can still sell your minis for some actual money.

You don't know how Lucius's transforming works? He slowly takes over the mind and body of the victim. The body turns into a shell from which Lucius emerges with power armour, sword, and all midst the Gorey remains of the victim. The victim's face is relocated to the chest area.

Now change all of that into Living Metal and you got your Necron possession. Please be less of a retard.

Send everything with pauldrons to their pocket dimension aka /hhg/vwhere they can wank over each other for eternity and have the actual interesting factions have their endless war.

>nuChaos

It's actually old. The Eldar 2nd codex says that ideas that create gods and daemons are immortal once they enter the warp. That's due to a simple fact, the Warp doesn't acknowledge linear time. Cause and effect doesn't exist. There is no after or before in the Warp. There is only now. To the Warp, everything has already happened and none of it has happened at the same time.

The shards are seeking each other out to merge.

But Necrons don't have souls...or warp presence, or emotions as living beings define them...what retard wrote that crap?

For 60 million years. I have no faith in them managing it in the next few centuries which according to GW is how long this war against Chaos will last.