/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

Rough faction rundown

Cygnar - Shoots hard. Shoots harder. Has issues killing tough things, but often deals with that by making sure they don't get to do anything.

Khador - Tough, hard to kill stuff that is good at killing stuff back. Not a lot of frills, but that goes both ways. They're really good at having cheap stuff kill expensive stuff, but when something can kill their cheap stuff, it often becomes a problem

PoM - Denial faction. Not as tough or hard hitting as the other factions, but have a ton of ways to keep your opponent from doing shit to your shit. A lot of their stuff tends to generally be weaker, but often benefits from buffs in faction or from the opponent hurting it. Has a real issue with terrain. Have some of the easiest casters to kill in their entire game.

Cryx - Undead, sneaky dick faction. Their warcasters are often really powerful in terms of their spellcasting. Boast lots of cheap infantry who can punch way above their weight class when supported. Kind of a glass cannon, a lot of their shit is pretty easy to kill for it's cost.

Ret - Combined Arms/Assassin faction. Good melee and ranged tools, good casters to support it. Often have the most ways to directly kill the enemy caster turn by turn. However, casters also tend to be fairly easy to kill if your opponent can draw a bead on them. Often have issues dealing with enemy defensive tech.

Mercs - Catch all faction, can do a lot of everything. Not a good place to start.

Convergence - The jack faction. They run their warjacks way better than anyone else does. Their casters are often incredibly powerful. Not harder to play than other factions, but have a much steeper learning curve to start. Also limited release, not going to get releases at the same rate as the other factions. On the reverse end, some of their shit is very, very good.

And Hordes

Trolls - Infantry faction. Good at attrition, every model in the army doesn't die 33% of the time. Have a lot of in faction buffs that they depend on to do work. 90% of their shit is medium sized or bigger though, which creates a lot of issue with placing the army on the table.

Circle - Tricky Dick faction. Doesn't always hit the hardest and takes hits super poorly, but has tons of ways to make sure they don't get hit and get to hit first.

Legion - Glass cannon faction. Their stuff is often super expensive and dies super easy, but when it gets there, it gets there hard. Tends to ignore a lot of game rules, though not as many as they did in Mk2.

Skorne - Beat face faction. Almost all their tactics can be summed up as "Apply army to enemy", it's usually just about how you do it. Army often gets stronger by losing shit. All their warlocks are often combat monsters, with even their ranged and spell warlocks being pretty damn good in melee combat. Often have to lose half their shit to make it to the enemy lines, but whatever gets there will usually kill anything it reaches.

Minions - Same as mercs. Not a good starter faction

Grymkin - Newest faction, and very weird. Have a bunch of unique rules that majorly affect how the game works. Also limited, like Convergence above. Not a good starter faction.

>Trolls - Infantry faction. Good at attrition, every model in the army doesn't die 33% of the time. Have a lot of in faction buffs that they depend on to do work. 90% of their shit is medium sized or bigger though, which creates a lot of issue with placing the army on the table.
Maybe in Mk.2, now it's half and half
Most list pairings tend to be Power of Dhunia and Kriel Company these days

Warcaster/Warlock choice has a huge affect on how an army plays though, so regard these as general guidelines. Most any faction can do every tactic one way or another(heavy spam, infantry spam, mixed, etc, etc).

Run away, spend money on another game. Seriously.

Posts like this are off base. Those days are over. One of the most brutal armor skews is Baldur2 double wrath, and Harkevich can make Khador heavies threat the same as a Warpwolf. Just pick the faction you like the look of. Makeda2 double cats has just as much (if not more) movement shenanigans then any circle lists.

Is it just me or is PP getting more and more retarded at the model concept stage?

Skarre on half a ship, Sorscha going slow, Grymkin.

>What is gyrmkin

We finally get a manowar caster and it's fucking Sorscha. Joy.

>>What is gyrmkin

Yeah that entire faction line is fucking cringe.

It's mostly hit really. Yeah the Neighslayers and Piggybacks are awful, but I find the rest of the faction pretty inspired in my view.

I find stuff like the Heretic, the Dreamer, the Frightmare pretty great overall.

I like Skarre on half a ship. Has a neat look to it. And we have no evidence that MOW Sorcha will be slow yet.

Can't fault you for having shit taste, I guess.

>Grymkin, aka the faction of pure garbage
>mostly hit

Eh, this is Veeky Forums. Reasonable discussion is for fags and shitposting rules.

Grymkin are entirely awful, Skarre on a ship is a dumb concept even by current standards and Sorscha will of course be slow, because fast MoWs would be even worse.

Um. Alright. We all agreed that your opinions are the only opinions so I guess you win.

Have a (You)

...the fuck am I looking at? That also looks to be a pathetically poorly armed ship even when it was complete. I mean, a single deck of guns? She's supposed to be an admiral.

Alright.
Grymkin are a faction made for a different scale of game that break down once you even remotly think about their themes and ideas. The actual themes are handled better by several other factions and none of the themes actually translate to the tabletop all that well.
None of the units and models have a unified visual design beyond 'silly' (and maybe 'shitty model'), leaving the army looking disjointed and unappealing. The only good model is OW2, and she's with Khador anyway, so not even that counts.

Skarre on half a ship is stupid because what the hell are you going to do with half a fucking ship, nevermind it being the boring part. And going by the design even when it was complete it'd be a tiny fucking ship when compared to the fluff.

Sorscha not being slow will not happen if the designers have any idea of their own material, because Men-of-War being slow, plodding steamsuits is a significant part of their fluff and foregoing that would be stupid.

Using an horde of lost souls to lift up a long since sunk ship from the bottom of the sea and using it to terrorize the land-dwellers is pretty impressive in my book.

She owns personally a bunch of ships, it's in the lore. I guess she just uses this on land missions.

Just have the souls carry the cannons directly, then.

>Using an horde of lost souls to lift up a long since sunk ship from the bottom of the sea and using it to terrorize the land-dwellers is pretty impressive in my book.

Ship seems a bit generous a term. I think I've been on river ferries bigger than it would have been complete. Actually...looking over it, I think I know why it sunk. Look how close the cannons are to the waterline, I think the thing would be swamped and sunk by a half decent wave, as it's about '1 dude' between the bottom of the ship and the cannons.

>She owns personally a bunch of ships, it's in the lore. I guess she just uses this on land missions.

Why not use a ship with a cannon of note? We've seen a proper ship's cannon in the Commodore. Those are 1 pow above the Deck Guns pirates have available.

Impressively impractical, you mean?
>can't aim both cannons at one thing
>offers at best mediocre protection
>won't swim for shit in a pinch
>burns well
>makes you a huge target
>presumably requires some effort to wrangle the ghosts into doing your bidding
>looks utterly ridiculous

>Grymkin
Personally, I find their corpse collection mechanic and general solos and such work very well. And I like (Most of) their stuff and the stuff I don't like Im gonna mod.

In general, I like what PP does with their lore and their ideas. As a person who is sick to DEATH of "Cthuloid" Threats on their own, I liked what they did with the Infernals by making THEM much more Lovecraftian in nature with strange unknowing desires for the mortal realms and wanting their souls only for food. Makes infernals Fresh and Lovecraft less obnoxious.

So these guys take place of a Traditional Fey and "Devil" faction. And I think it's pretty unique and executed pretty well as most fables of those times really did have cruel twists of just cruelty, or combined with brutal Morality. And in the traditional color scheme, they do lack a unifying aesthetic sans if you know the fluff, It does make it a very appealing faction for me to mod as a guy whos a fan of doing that.
You find it unappealing, others do. I was personally surprised for them to be catching allot of peoples attention at GenCon. So I guess mission success for PP if they are courting other demographics.

>Skarre
Transportation and it carries a section of her crew with her. I just really enjoy the visual (Souls carrying an evil Pirate ship), and it's not her only ship of course.

>Sorcha
Let us see. Standard MOW suits are slow but this isn't a Standard MOW Suit. We can already see improved joint protection, especially at the feet. Improved strength can come with improved speed. I doubt she will be as agile, but she could still be fast.

>I don't like a thing

And most importantly that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion, and if you don't like a thing, feel free to dislike it. Your reasoning isn't half bad, it just appeals to me for my reasons. I know sensibility in Veeky Forums is a waste, but I genuinly am fine with people liking different things.

>I find stuff like the Heretic, the Dreamer, the Frightmare pretty great overall.

Fucking hilarious user. Compare PP trying creepy victorian/steampunk to Malifaux. It's laughable.

Finally getting a game in with the Vyre lights tonight. Part of me wants to try spamming them with Elara or Ghyrrshyld just to see how ridiculous I can be.

On the other hand I have a more legit list that is probably better using Elara2 and two Harpies attached to Scyirs. Potential extra 3" move before aiming and she can give them a Stealth out. Plus on Feat turn they can get in some weird places with Scything Touch if needed.

Here's the less retarded list
War Room Army

Retribution of Scyrah - 8/15(CID)

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army

Elara, Death's Shadow - WJ: +28
- Fane Knight Guardian - PC: 4
- Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Hemera - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)

Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - PC: 4
- Harpy - PC: 9
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - PC: 4
- Harpy - PC: 9
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Lys Healer - PC: 3
Houseguard Thane - PC: 4
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution - PC: 6

Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
House Shyeel Arcanists - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7

---

GENERATED : 08/31/2017 10:17:29
BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25

Sorscha3 looks so cool.

My pal used a Harpy yesterday in a rule-breaking Forges of War list.

It's a pretty rad light.

They done every usual concept over the years already. So we're in wacky territory now.

The gun-mount looks awkward and weird and trying to make the suit more feminine in appearance was a mistake.

Agreed. Wonder how her kit will translate to being a MoW

I don't think armor stops you from casting certain spells in the wmh universe.

Regular armor can, but they wear Warcaster armor, which is specifically designed to not stop you.

I more meant how her previous versions both had mobility tools and DEF buffs and now she's a MoW which aren't generally either of those things

I mean, she might have some of those.

Give her Truth Path, for example. That one might be excessive, given the rest of the in faction infantry, but still.

Why the fuck are you faggots getting hung up on the idea that sorcha might (gasp) be a little slow becuase she put on ASSLOADS OF GAINT ARMOR. CHRIST HOW LITERALLY AUTISTIC CAN YOU GET

To a certain extent, PP is willing to bend to public opinion. If people stress that they really liked a sense of Mobility on at least Sorcha, it will have some representation in-game.

In a sense she was always moving towards More Armor and less defense in her incarnations:

Sorcha 1: Wind Rush, Fog of War
Sorcha 2: Cyclone, Iron Flesh

Reminder that it's hard to discern emotions over text on the internet.

Because shitposting and general desire to be unhappy. If we wanted to be happy we would not be on Veeky Forums.

Sorsche is the last caster in faction I'd have put in MoW armor, simply because her whole gimmick and the the general theme of the armor clash horribly.

Breakups hit you hard

Well, Sorsha's thing has generally been that she's bloody fast (And makes everyone else slow) with themes of Wind and Ice so she's an odd choice to make the brick of hot steam belching armour.

I wonder what Ayn-sama would do if she found out Vlad was cheating on her.

Umbreyan genocide maybe?

>We finally get a manowar caster and it's fucking Sorscha

Rebound relationship!?

Every casters armor belches steam.

Yeah but Man O War is on an entirely different scale there. To the level where you start taking fire damage every turn if it gets damaged in the RPG.

Not to the point where it boils the wearer.

>have caster that is fast and cold
>put her in armor that is slow and hot
Pottery.

Their quote on their old card was something like "we shall die in steam" I think lol

Again its an Elite MOW suit. They pretty much could just correct that kink for their irreplaceable Warcasters.

Warcaster armor is far higher quality and basically unique. Strakhov's armor, for example, is far and away above normal Assault Kommando armor.

Hell, MoW armor is basically knockoff Warcaster armor without all the extra protection.

I get that it's possible but it doesn't fit with who sorscha has been for the last 15 years.

Then again, we never knew Skarre likes to steal toy boats from amusement parks and ride about on them until now.

Elfcaster armour doesn't.

And neither does CoC armor, because neither are steam driven.

Which wasn't what I was talking about, clearly.

But I guess it's important to get wins on technicalities when that's all you're capable of.

Or Protectorate (it's oil based).

Honestly for a steam-based setting a LOT of people don't use it.

...

How's Warmachine tactics?
I just found out about the game this week. I wish it were on gog.com as I hate steam
And why doesn't it have Horde factions?

Bad

I'm not actually the guy you were arguing with originally.

I just felt like pointing out that elves are better.

Even as a warmachine player it's really really bad dude. I wouldn't even buy it on sale.

(Not the trolls you're responding to)

I just dislike the skarr model because it doesn't really "read" to me as a ship being carried by souls...Primarily because it's half a ship, but also because the pedestal it's "flying" on looks like it got impaled by a rock since it goes *into* the ship. I do understand they probably did half a ship because a full ship may have been way too large, but I think it just lead to a rather silly model.

Now, if this ship was a full ship (it could still be battered and missing its mast even) riding a "wave" of souls that goes all along its base? I could see that looking pretty awesome. But as is, I don't understand why, even if the ship was super important, you'd want to ride around on the back half of a ship on a tornado.

Just my two cents, I do agree though that the grymkin are cooler than people say (although still have problems), I don't think "you can mod them!" is a fair reason to give their misses a pass though.

>Even as a warmachine player
shouldn't that be "especially for a warmachine player"?
The way you said it makes it sound like Warmachine is bad.

Not my intention, unlike most of the Debbie downers here I actually love warmachine. The video game still sucks tho lol

Those are solid reasons. I get how the "Back" half of a ship is kinda the least sexiest part to ride around in.

Yeah I think he meant "Even as a person who likes warmachine the game is garbage"

And the game is garbage, even as another guy who likes warmachine.

The grymkin's creepy is kinda of lame but so is Malifaux. Don't go pretending it's not just as bad.

>Don't go pretending it's not just as bad.

user, Malifaux does that genre a hell of a lot better.

Grymkin are just laughable.

So how does Convergence like their new theme force?

CLOCKWORK LEGIONS - CONVERGENCE OF CYRISS

>Convergence Warcasters
>Convergence nonCharacter Vectors
>Priest models/units
>Construct units/solos with Soul Vessel

Benefits:

>Enigma Foundaries are FA 4
>Shield Wall Units gain Advanced Move
>Medium based units gain Vengeance
>For every 20 points of units in the army, you gain one free UA/Solo

>>For every 20 points of units in the army, you gain one free UA/Solo

Man that design space and innovation.

New CID stuff

Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer: Adding utility to this unit should help define its roll and ease some of the issues when playing Sons of the Tempest.

Remove Tactics: Practiced Maneuvers. Add Moment of Clarity: This model can use Moment of Clarity once per game at any time during its unit’s activation. This activation, models in this unit gain True Sight. (This model ignores cloud effects when determining LOS. This model also ignores Stealth XICONX.)

Ashlynn d'Elyse: We're getting a lot of good feedback for Ashlynn, keep it up! We've got out eye on some additional tweaks but would like to see how these changes progress before we do anything else. Please note this change to Distraction would also affect Helga.

Nemesis gains Lunge. Lunge - This weapon becomes RNG 2 during this model’s activation.

Distraction becomes RNG 10.

Bradigus Thorle: Changing how Mystic Wards functions will hopefully bring a little more consistency and effect to the spell. We also increased the RNG of Stone's Throw to encrouage a more active play experience with Bradigus himself.

Mystic Wards. Repalce the text with the following: Enemy animi and enemy upkeep spells on models in this model’s battlegroup that are in its control area immediately expire. Enemy magic attacks targeting a model in this model’s battlegroup suffer –5 RNG.

Stone's Throw. Increase the RNG to 10.

Eminent Configurator Orion: Implimenting the changes from the Dev Talk. Based on the feedback gathered we decided to push testing at MAT4 RAT 5. We also changed the name of Power Blaster based on community feedback and made the pulse effect only damage enemy models.

MAT Becomes 4.

RAT Becomes 5.

Add the abiltiy Configuration. Configuration: At the beginning of this model's activation it gains +2 MAT or RAT until the start of its next activation.

Power Blaster. Change name to Forced Induction. Replace text with: Target warjack gains a focus point. Then the warjack and enemy models with 1˝ for each focus point on the warjack suffer an unboostable POW 10 electrical damage roll XICONX. When Power Blaster targets an enemy model, it is an offensive spell and requires a magic attack roll.

Lieutenant Crosse, Resistance Fighter: We're also seeing some very solid feedback for Crosse. Please keep it up! We have changed Lifedbound to be much easier to use by making it range Ctrl instead of 6". We will continue to work on Crosse as the feedback comes in.

Lifebound becomes RNG Ctrl.

Ice Witches: We've received a lot of negative feedback on even more Ice Cage in Legion. By adding Summon Vortex to this unit it gives it a very unique roll to the faction and could open up some defensive tech for some of the underplayed warlocks. We are cautiously optimistic about this as a cloud wall has never existed in Legion before. Swapping Ice Bolt for Frost Hammer brings their power level down a touch allowing them to stay 7 points. Because of the addition of Vortex, we removed Snow Wreathed.

Replace Ice Cage with Summon Vortex.

Replace Frost Hammer with Ice Bolt.

Cont.

Agrimony, Crone of the Dying Strands: We reduced the point cost of Agrimony hopefully bringing her into Ghost Fleet as an option you will take during list building and not exclusively as a free model.

Point cost becomes 4.

Primus Jalaam: Jalaam has been receiving very positive reviews with a few issues pointed out. Resourceful should help address his fury issues. There has been a call for ammo types on Jalaam's Reiver, but we do not feel this is the correct course of action at this time. He wields the standard Reiver ranged weapon and this will not be changing.

Add Resourceful special rule.

Champion of the Order of the Wall: The Champion is very nearly perfect. It is receiving positive reviews and seeing inclusion in the Faithful Masses theme force. Increasing his command to 9 not only brings him in line with other Paladins of the Order of the Wall but makes his leadership ability much easier to use.

CMD becomes 9.

Theme Forces:

Sons of the Tempest: Fixing a clerical error that would allow you to upkeep offensive spells for free on opposing Arcane Tempest models.

Faithful Masses: Added the Covenant of Menoth to the allowed models.

Llaelese Resistance: Added Dannon Blythe & Bull and Eilish Garrity, the Occultist to the allowable models. The sniper benefit proved to be too much with the amount of gun mages that could be included in the list. 15 points required for free models will make this a much easier bonus to trigger. Adding Pathfinder to Llaelese models instead is a more wide spread and helpful benefit while also not becoming degenerate. Changing how the Rubble terrain works should make it less of a detriment to the Llaelese player. As stated before, we are activly working on this theme force. Please keep your feedback coming!

Didn't a lot of mk.2 theme forces give you free shit?

Or lowered the PC of things.

I have mixed feelings about Gastonne. Feat seems a little uninspired but that's just what feats are these days. Feat seems pretty dece though, could be really hard to deal with or it could be useless. His stats are all super poopy which makes puts a sour taste in my mouth. Low defenses but he's got defensive tech, sure. Low rat but he's got his soul thing and you'll be wanting to boost his shots anyway, sure. And of course the ability to go super saiyan with three souls (or super saiyan god with four souls). Actually the more I talk about him the more I like him. I'm just afraid that he'll be interesting to play but not all that strong.

But Lil Gastonne is all growed up, hype!

Sniper on gun mages was too strong, really?

Oh I just realized his feat fully affects him too doo he gets one round of running and gunning. Thats not nothing

How does Inhuman Resolve interact with Steady, granted by the Iron Fang Kovnik?

Do you become disabled, but not knocked down?

Do you get boxed, because can't get knocked down and disabled?

Or do you never get disabled at all as long as you can't get knocked down?

bump

Pretty sure it's disabled, but not knocked down. Protectorate has been able to do something like this for a while with the Exemplar Seneschal.

It's exactly this.

Ima try er out with Butcha 1

Advanced Maneuvers called Sofya the best out all these new models.

I think they are wrong, outside of being available for free in theme she doesn't do a lot of anything.

She's not bad by any measure, but comparing her to a game-changer like Orion or the Cryx Witch (No Matter how Cryx Insists that anything below a A+ Class is crap), she's OK.

Some counterintuitive stuff with her like Shield Guard or Veteran Leader.

ConflictAnon, why can't I add anything to army lists?

conflictchamber.com/#cc201b_-0Sd8dBd4d5d5d5d5dEdEdEdEdcdcdqdqdqdsds

Convergence Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Clockwork Legions (Pre-release)

!!! You are using a pre-release theme.

(Axis 1) Axis, the Harmonic Enforcer [+30]
- Corollary [6]
- Diffuser [6]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
Enigma Foundry [0(4)]
Enigma Foundry [0(4)]
Enigma Foundry [0(4)]
Enigma Foundry [4]
Clockwork Angels [5]
Clockwork Angels [5]
Obstructors (max) [11]
Obstructors (max) [11]
Obstructors (max) [11]
Reductors (max) [13]
Reductors (max) [13]

Thoughts?

Try refreshing the page, there was a bug with Hordes lists that was live briefly.

(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Despoiler [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Mammoth [38]
- Aptimus Marketh [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]

(Makeda 2) Supreme Archdomina Makeda [+27]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Despoiler [19]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]

Heheheeee :-DDDD

Ok, why the happy? Looks... nice? I'm glad I'm not trying to keep those Ferox off of me/trying to kill those ferox, I'm sure that Rasheth list can kill my stuff and protect its stuff, but there has to be something more to this.

>if we end up losing this thread to gurm copypasta shitposting...