Stronger than paladins

You would be a terribad game designer user.

Why do you say that?

They're two very distinct classes, trying to fold them together is just silly.

I would buff pally though, clerics being holy wizards gives them too much to work with.

Paladins have CHIVALRY!

I agree that they are distinct in theory, but especially in older editions they play a lot of the same roles. I dont see why it would be harmful to just have one class called Zealot or some shit and have a smattering of features you buy into at various levels.

I dont see it as "silly" to try to streamline the mess that is DnD.

>chivalry
>for some furshit abomination

Sir knight you will eradicate that heretical thing or be excommunicated

I think aliens are allowed to convert to Christianity, so I don't see why fantasy monsters wouldn't be allowed to.

>You're not some deus vultfag
Ironically, clerics used to be described as members of crusading orders. Paladins were true knights of the Lancelot/Galahad/Holger/Roland type, who were pious but not particularly churchly types. During 2e, the Cleric's concept got blanched out of them to the point that 3e turned the Cleric into some sort of religious wizard and gave their concept to the Paladin.

Because I care about more than just sucking my God's dick.

I care about what's right.

You can deus vult while a cleric
There's literally no reason to ever be a paladin ever

It is more the " warriors of faith" vs "warriors of the church" discussion.

Most paladins dont worship a specific God, or at least don't have to. They instead embody all that is good and right, and will arrive for perfection and purity. They are the symbol of the church, of what a truly righteous individual would be.

A cleric commune directly with their god. They follow and believe wholeheartedly in their God, but are not expected to be perfect, but merely follow the wishes of their God to the best of their ability, and spread the word of their God to the common man. It is why some settings have clerics who pretty much just jump from one God to another, and changes their view point every time they do - think of them like Public Relations managers.

Paladins wont change no matter who they represent, because they represent an ideal, not a specific God. 5e compounded on this by letting them be the embodiment of life of laughter as well as the standard Lawful Good guy. In the end, they are more extreme than clerics, because their mission is to inspire, unlike the clerics.

>Why even play a paladin when lolis exist? You're not some deus vultfag, are you?
ftfy

>What's 'right' and what your God desires not being the EXACT SAME FUCKING THING in the eyes of anyone that worships and believes enough to receive fucking miracles in return.

Are you some kind of retard?

No, Clerics should be recast as priests, priests should get medium armor max, and only martials should have access to heavy armor

>everyone else see's a loli
>I see a halfling with a portable shrine

Shits kawaii (and legal) as fuck

>Clerics may have more wiggle room for alignment but that just shows how not devoted to their religion they are.
How that?

Honestly, I like the 5e paladins quite a bit. Mechanically and lore wise distinct from clerics, strong, and focused on upholding a code with actually well defined tenants.

A cleric can worship a not so nice god

Paladins and clerics are pretty much the same, anyways.

Why does that make him not so devoted?

Why would Clerics get access to Divine Power (the spell) if not so they can obsolete Paladins?

Paladins have better defense and better single target offense. Paladins are best when deleting a single demon/undead/etc. and do it better than literally everyone else.

I want to pat that cleric.

In 5e I don't see why Paladin is a core class when

>Clerics have very similar spell lists, but simply much better
>fighters are better at the martial side of things
>thematically it's not too different from a cleric

They have unique stuff, sure, like lay on hands, auras and such, but to be frank the same character design could be achieved via a subclass to either cleric or fighter.

To me, Cleric shouldn't be a heavily armoured warrior that also casts spells, it should be a robed spellcaster class. But that's the way it has been since forever and it's kinda late to change it now.

Personally I would do

>Paladin is current cleric build but with lay on hands and some of the oath options, lose channel divinity
>cleric is a dedicated spellcaster, give them a d6 hit die, channel divinity, expanded spell casting and an extra cantrip.

But that's just what I would prefer, current system is somewhat zany to me and always has been.

I fucking love Romeo.

I was literally about to post this

Roll it into one class like the 5e fighter, divided between 'priest' and 'templar.'

She can be a loli and like, 30 or something senpai.

>I see a halfling with a portable shrine
>shoes
>on hairless feet
I think you're seeing things, comrade.

NO SLEEP TIL WE HIT JERUSALEM

Thats the most adorable thing i've seen in a while.

That said, jeanne is french, not english.

She shaves her feet, dude.

DEUS VULT

>Dancing English knight
[Removes foreigners in French]

>she shaves her feet, dude.
Then she's not a halfling. She's been excommunicated from the species.

>Stronger than paladins
Depends on your STR
>More useful
Purely situational
>Adaptable
Paladins can carry maces too, faggot
>all around better
I don't want to be a minmaxing munchkin faggot like you.

I want to find something in life worth taking the fall for.

>Not having a Cleric and a Paladin both in your party from different deities, being at odds with each other at first but warming up to each other by talking about religious stuff and sharing their god's culture

Do any of you EVEN party dynamic?

>Not playing a cleric and multi-classing into paladin

It's like you don't want to service your god in every way possible.

It's clearly an illusionary halfling.

Because THE thing one thinks of when thinking of D&D is the Lawful Good Paladin. Every edition of D&D will have alignment (including 'Lawful Good' at least) and Paladins at the very least.

>DEUS VULT JERUSALEM DEUS VULT DEUS VULT JERUSALEM
This is how you sound. Why are paladinfags so obnoxious?

I bet you blindly follow his teachings, and fail all the tests of integrity too, huh?

like most fake fans, it's all about the aesthetic to them, not the meaning.

>Deus Vult
>God wills it
Yes, that's the only good reason to be a paladin. Was this ever in question?

No meming about who's stronger but yeah, what really is the difference other than that paladins can go full fedora if they wish?

H-HAYAI

Because morality is based on once action or inaction that means if kargoth demands sacrifice and you dont wanna, then you're a shit poor preist of kargoth.

Minmaxing=credit to team

In 5e, it comes down to "do you want to turn enemies into chunky salsa whenever you crit, or do you not want that."

In terms of sheer mechanics, sure. But it doesn't make you any less of a faggot IRL.

Name one thing a pally does better than cleric-kun

In my games I just give Paladins better access to roleplaying perks.

>Free horse or squire at level one.
>Can stay at the church instead of an inn for free.
>Can call in small favors from the Church, like free provisions, a loan of gold, or access to information.
>Respected and trusted by commoners and nobles know better to get on the Church's bad side.

Small stuff that adds up over time like that. Generally the explanation I give to differentiate Clerics and Paladins is that while anyone can be a holyman or pray to their god for blessings, not everyone is apart of the bureaucratic juggernaut that is the state sponsored Church.

Zealous human fighters with Full Plate proficiency.

Actual paladin. Stay chivalric son.

>A wild Cleric vs Paladin thread appears
>Chivalryposting ensues
>Suddenly remember that story about the Cleric that married a Kobold princess
>Can't find it in the archive
Well, now I'm gonna have to spend all day looking for it.

In a 5e Campaign run by a friend of mine, i've given away a large portion of the loot i've gained to churches (most of it pocket change to start with), gone around healing people, and generally just being an altruistic fuck.

Honestly speaking, its actually really interesting to play. To begin with, i got attacked by bandits and they left their horse after i scared them off, so i kept the horse with me until i saw them again, intending fully to give it back.

Then my party killed them outright, and i had no one to give the horse to so i just kept it.

My character is poor as fuck compared to everyone else, both in money and assets, but at the same time its been fun to play something so altruistic for once.

You, I like you.

...

I think 5e's class structure was a wasted opportunity to go back down the path of 2e's style of classes, in which there are 4 "main" classes that are very easy to break into, but if you roll a little higher on your stats, there are "sub" classes that are basically the super class but better. Ranger and Paladin were subtypes of the fighter class, for instance.

I think instead of giving the Fighter the Champion/Battle Master/Eldritch Knight subtypes, I think it would have been more beneficial to give Fighter the Paladin and Ranger subtypes and drop Ranger/Paladin altogether. You can also wrap up Monk and pure Fighter into there. You guarantee that all the classes will fit into an important archetype while simultaneously giving players the important distinction and flavor they need with fewer "dead classes", like the Vengence Paladin or the Knowledge Cleric.

>The paladin archetype that has the most interesting fluff, and deals some of the best damage in the game
>"Dead"

>literally just Frank Castle
>most interesting fluff

If the reason you like the archetype is purely because of fluff, there's no reason not to roll a fighter, go down the paladin archetype, and as the user below you says, just play him as the Punisher.

What if you just make the sacrifice, like a good priest of Kargoth? Or serve a god who doesn't require sacrifices? Or just, you know, do what your god demands even if it's unpleasant? How does any of these options make clerics 'not so devoted'?

Play 4e.

Clerics (male) can't be this cute.

They both have great fluff, and great mechanics.
I don't think you understand what double crit chance is worth on a paladin.

>Clerics
>The priesthood dedicated to a certain deity
>More or less divine magic centered wizards, in that they aren't as good at taking blows but can cast quite a few spells
>Though clerics are certainly capable of inflicting harm, they're more focused on buffing, debuffing and battlefield control

>Paladin
>The chosen champions of a certain deity
>Very minor healing, mostly deal with smiting evil and cracking skulls

>In a Christian-inspired setting, clerics ARE Christian wizards. Wizardry is heathenous (but not as heathenous as believing in magic, go figure) so Christian clerics are effectively minor saints that cast 'miracles' rather than spells.

Y/N?

No I do, but I'm not saying that should just disappear outright. I'm saying instead of making 13 different classes that each have separate subclasses that, if worked out right, only capture a different flavor of the main class, it would be better to have 4 different classes, and all other classes subtypes thereof.

Maybe, just maybe because paladins were added later and were utterly pointless

So THAT'S the source

That's wrong though.

Added later is correct, but then so was almost everything the current game. Pointless is 100% incorrect, as they have the point of allowing players to play a paladin.

Okay can I just ask a question?

Why the FUCK is it so GODDAMNED common to write "tenant" when one means "tenet"? It's one of the last things I'd expect to be a common spelling error, but I can count on one hand how many times I've read "tenet", whereas "tenant" is used all the goddamned time.

It's fucking baffling

>call him a fag that'll undermine his argument
Someone didn't stat Int

When was the last time someone played a female paladin at your table?
I get the impression that girls in general don't like this class.

Why is this girl a guy?

Japan

By hesitating in the first place because of your moral code or anything that questions the rules and demands of the faith. These will also prove your lack of devotion. Think abraham sacrificing isaac as unwavering devotion.

>females
>altruistic
Pick one and only one.

That said, without the issue of a Lawful Good alignment being necessary, they're a lot more keen to play a pally.

And remember, it's your own fault they don't like you.

Nice job proving me wrong.
You asked a question and got an answer, don't get mad because you don't like it.
Besides, I'm a raging faggot.

It's actually because Astolfo is notorious for being able to easily pass as a young woman in the mythology associated with him. He's the paladin that always ends up in frilly dresses with other knights mistaking him for a girl and instantly falling in love with him.

At one point, he even convinces Roland to dress up as a woman with him so they can grope unsuspecting chicks.

Basically it's a joke regarding his tendencies.

>Jeanne
>english

...making it one of the few Nasu history edits that make any sense. Nasu-Leonardo da Vinci just barely makes it into that list

It's probably BECAUSE "tenet" is used so infrequently. It's the same problem that "cannon"/"canon" have. Everybody knows how to spell "cannon" because it's a more common word.

HOW does that one make any sense whatsoever?

Because no one remembers leonardo himself, but his greatest work the mona lisa, a visual medium.

Its loose, but not the weirdest thing.

It's not even really a history.mythology edit, more of an exaggeration.

Astolpho was legitimately a girly dude.

It's loosely based on the belief that the Mona Lisa is a self portrait
Fair enough

I thought of playing a Cleric, but for the campaign that I'm in they end up getting heals at level 20, so fuck that shit.

> he doesn't play a surly dwarven female paladin at the table himself

Fag

lmao what the shit? is this a 5e campaign?

Like I said, raging faggot, so I play a bara mode Dwarf Pally