/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

What goes on Dagoth Ur's shopping list?

Wraithguard and a few other necessities.

Who's squabbling? We'd be nothing without MK and I don't think it's said often enough.

I bet he thinks he's real clever with that low-quality bait too.

It would be kind of interesting to speculate what TES would have become without MK. He is not the only source for interesting lore. We definitely wouldn't have Muatras and Moebius/Nausicaa aesthetics though.

Probably pretty boring, mostly standard cookie-cutter fantasy. I'm talking "Victorian Drow." There still might be some entertainment value there, and it wouldn't make much of a difference for people who only play the games. And no sci-fi stuff.

Isn't there sci-fi stuff also from other authors? I don't remember exactly who, but pretty sure it's not MK only. Might be that MK invented it though.

I have mixed feelings about MK. I like his effort to try and make things seem mythological and do some of that early 20th century/late 20th century style of fantasy where things are sorta solipstic. But I can't help but feel like it gets TOO far up its own ass in esoteric stuff sometimes. Like reading the Sword Meeting of Vivec and Cyrus vs the Sword Meeting of Tiber Septim and Cyrus. One is interesting and manages to convey a good sense of the weirdness of TES while the other goes a bit too far into it.

But to steer it away from MK, I got a question for the thread. Two of 'em, actually.

I've been looking up some information about TES universe since I neither have a degree in theology nor have I consumed enough lore information to really know for sure. But my friends are pestering me to do a game in the setting and I'm seeing a bunch of stuff about the Yokudans/Ra Gada/Redguards having spirit blades of pure light. While I think the Swordsinger/Ansu thing of being able to transcend mortal boundaries by virtue of their craft is cool. The most I can find on the Ansei stuff right now is through ESO and I have no idea how they're going to react to that source.

And secondly...I know Morrowind is a bit of a sacred cow...but I fucking hate that the Imperials in it have generic Roman armor, especially when the descriptions have them in both a jungle and with heavy Akaviri influences. So my question is, has anyone postulated what might the Imperial Legion look like taking those two things into account(I also just hate generic cookie-cutter Roman armor interjected into fantasy in general)?.

I known kuhlmann and goodall contributed to that side of the setting but idk how prominent it was

Obviously we all know the typical derogatory terms for people; n'wah, s'wit, milkdrinker, etc.
Are there lesser known terms?
Are there absurdly specific ones between Khajiiti forms?

You'd still have Battlespire in some form. But, on the other hand, people would still care as little for it as they do now if not less. I actually don't know to what extent the development of Redguard impacted the lore of Battlespire. Either way, it wouldn't be as prevalent if not for him.

And the Dwemer would be actual dwarves. Like, fantasy dwarves.

>Guar
>Guar
>Barenziah
Excellent insults guys, great work all around.

It would be the world as presented in the games, without the (irrelevant) metaphysics. The aesthetic of Morrowind might be somewhat different, but probably not to a large degree. Lorefags would concentrate on characters and history rather than lolling it up with farting mountains or gay cyborgs from the future.

>blind MKfag
>>>/leddit/

>I fucking hate that the Imperials in it have generic Roman armor, especially when the descriptions have them in both a jungle and with heavy Akaviri influences.
When you talk to armorers about imperial gear, they have some neat flavor text describing it. I think the text works a lot better than the models and textures do, and are less roman--might be worth looking into.

>Keep the MK/Lady N related squabbling to a minimum.
Just another reminder

>responding to your own bait because no one got angry
Look at him. Look at him and laugh.

Thanks for the heads up, I've looked at the armor guides from Morrowind and afterwards and all I can get from it is a bunch of descriptions of what materials they used within it. Do you by chance mean armorers as in blacksmiths in Morrowind?

>my friends are pestering me to do a game in the setting
I'm actually jealous of you right now. The only other guy I know IRL who's into TES isn't into tabletop.

>I think the Swordsinger/Ansu thing of being able to transcend mortal boundaries by virtue of their craft is cool
"Mortal boundaries" is kind of hard to pin down in TES anyway.

Anyway, read the following sources about them:
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith...#Leki
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Redguards,_Their_History_and_Their_Heroes
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:From_The_Memory_Stone_of_Makela_Leki
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Divad_the_Singer
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Notes_For_Redguard_History
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_3rd_Edition/Other_Lands
In general the idea of Sword-Singers is firmly established in Daggerfall.

As for ESO, just talk to your players about it. If they want it that's fine, and if they don't that's fine too. I personally wouldn't base anything upon ESO lore, but if ESO does something fun that I think is consistent with the other lore, I'd use it in my game.

>Ansei
Sword Singing/the Shehai Shen She Ru is a form of tonal magic, like the Thu'um or Tonal Architecture of the Dwemer. Since you've already read Vivec's Sword Meeting, I'll drop some other sources at you:
imperial-library.info/content/redguards-history-and-heroes
imperial-library.info/content/compilation-redguard-history
imperial-library.info/content/notes-redguard-history
monkeytruth.net/texts/meditationtriumph.shtml

Pictures: the sinking of Yokuda after the use of the Pankratosword.

(There's good concept art by MK of Redguard era legionnaire armor. I'll post it if someone else doesn't.)

>He doesn't know a single thing about how the series was created and developed
PGE doesn't even get written in the first place if MK isn't there. Imagine, say, the Might and Magic series. That's the level the lore of the franchise would be at today without his work.

I'd imagine calling someone a guar" would be like calling them a dog, or maybe a bitch.

None if it

Cursing them after Red Mountain is literally all she could do

Also I hate this meme of making "humorously" blunt, absurdly simplistic descriptions of things.

Huh, i guess I was wrong. I can't find the dialogue I was talking about on uesp, although I can't boot up the game to check.

Don't be too jealous, they're not into CHIM or HEART OF LORKHAN or any of those bits. They like Skyrim and uhhh...memes about Oblivion dialogue. The big reason they're against ESO is because they've heard ESO is bad from a lore point of view, but they don't really know why. Three of them haven't even done tabletop so this is sorta a fresh experience for most of them.

Thanks for the sources, I'll take a look over them. What I mean by "mortal boundaries" is that TES might have all this grand cosmic weirdness, but a sword does what a sword does. Except if you're some guy from Yokuda and you've poured so much of your time and soul into this sword that you can cut in ways no sword should be able to cut. Just feels a bit more fun that "I'M A FUCKING WIZARD".

Second era Cyrodilic armor.

Are none of the morrowind armor style pages on uesp sources? That's obnoxious if that's the case.

bit of his dunmer work sneaking into the Imperial Guard outfit

why have a straight sword if it's single edged?

Must be Nibenese cultural appropriation.

Like a machete? For chopping through all the foliage in the basin, maybe.

>updates right after I post

Shit!

Thanks for the other sources as well as the armor here. It looks a bit cooler than stuff like the Skyrim-era armor or the Oblivion/ESO stuff, bit more distinct.

Thanks for checking anyway, friend. I'll bring up the game later tonight to run around and explore for myself since a lot of my experience with TES has been sorta backwards since I never got the chance to play it until a year before Skyrim came out and I ended up starting with Oblivion.

Yeah, it's got the Redoran style helmet.

seems inefficient for combat

You can see the same design in a cutscene from Redguard (that's Tiber btw).

Hello /tgesg/

I'm making a wiki for TES

Which is the most reasonable way to do NPC pages?

>a short introduction of the most important things about the NPC, followed by information on their items and stats, schedule, conversation lines/options, quests, and faction membership presented in lists or concise prose (as suitable) under separate headlines
>a shitty word-padded high school essay of all of the above

Thanks!

Man, Tiber needs to lose some weight or get some better fit clothes, boi be lookin' fat as fuck.

Why would you do that when there's UESP?

Do you think the Nerevar Reborn was a sham?

Azura could conceivably bless the person who looks the closest to fulfill her prophecy and say that they were always Nerevar?
Anyone who said otherwise would be declared salty about Azura's prophecy coming true.

That ambiguity is overtly a central theme in Morrowind ya dingus

Also I think there's some stuff about something indicating Vivec used to prevent the prophecy from being fulfilled but decided to let the PC through because he needed him to defeat Dagoth Ur

Morrowind makes it pretty clear IMO that anyone (though you might need to be born under certain sign etc.) can become Nerevarine, but it's a hard work. I don't doubt Nerevarine prophecy isn't metaphysically real, but it really seems more like mantling than reincarnation.

Then again all of it could be just coincidences and given Azura's track record of not being very honest, that's a real possibility.

sometimes i feel like the world would be better if it was just different types of mer. the wood elves, the frost elves, the sea elves, the dark elves, the high elves, etc. i kind of like the idea of just a would of different elves that were created for specific biomes from their gods. like instead of cat niggers there would be sand elves, instead of argonians there would be swamp elves, etc.

anyone else?

cat niggers ARE sand elves, silly

Go home, YR.

This be men land now.

that means they WERE elves, and are no longer

side note orcs being elves is fucking bullshit and i refuse to accept it

What's your issue with it?

I assume it's because Orcs aren't frilly little faggots who sip tea and run through fields.

Sadly for you, no. Which means I get to laugh at you for being so precious about your shit lore opinions that you have to create mental fantasies to sustain them against opposition.

Stay mad, sweetcakes. I'm so under your skin. :)

>>muh PGE
You are so full of shit. The PGE1 is irrelevant too. Oh wait, am I wrong? Is Cyrodiil a big jungle full of exotic Nibenaens and hardy Nedic Colovians? Are the Altmer all uniformed, named by number and infanticidal? Is any of the exotic stuff from PGE even canon any more, outside of your "MUH C0DA" pretend canon where only what you like counts? No, it is not. You're like a SWfag squealing about stuff in the EU but it's already been left behind a long time ago. Deal with it.

I'm sorry your life has led you up to the point that this is what you do with your spare time.

>filename
>COME, NEREVAR, COME
I didnt ask for this boner

1. The PGE is Imperial propaganda which still, in that capacity, reveals enormous and foundational swathes of the lore.
2. Cyrodiil was a jungle. It is filled with Nibenese and Colovians, even in the video game Oblivion. Nothing in the PGE is "not canon" even if it's not reflected in the games because
2a. It was all "true" in-universe at the time of writing and
2b. The games are an imperfect rendering of the lore, the "true" Tamriel.
To use your example: from a lore perspective, Cyrodiils transformation from a jungle to New Zealand was

Wait, why the fuck am I writing this for you? Suck a cock, retard.

with what? cat nigs or green nigs?

the orcs being elven bother me because they're absolutely nothing like the bosmer, altmer, dunmer, or falmer- who all have similar features

Being metaphysically shat out will do that to you

I was saying green nigs. And fair enough I suppose'.

I guess this guy has the right of it, though I'd say the orcs to me have always been a weird point. They just never have come across as the pariahs they're supposed to be to me.

>absolutely nothing like the bosmer, altmer, dunmer, or falmer
Yes, exactly. That's the point of the orcs. They don't fit in with the other elves, and most don't consider them elves at all. Just like how Malacath isn't considered a daedric prince by the other princes. An outcast god for an ostracized people.

So if the orcs being elves bothers you, then congrats on your immersion. It bothers people in-game too.

>They just never have come across as the pariahs they're supposed to be to me.
Agreed. The stuff about them only being playable characters post Daggerfall is cool, but everything else just treats them like any other playable race.

I'd chalk that one up to the games...not really factoring in your race all that much. Like how Khajit aren't allowing in Skyrim towns but you can walk wherever the fuck you want if you're a catman.

To flip this back to the thread, how would you handle racial shit at your table?

new to the thread, i assume this is about turning other ttrpgs into tes themed worlds?

Yeah, that's why I'm asking about some of the lore outside of the games.

Good stuff to work with.

It's more about lore sperging in general and sometimes discourse about playing Morrowind. Still, there's actual RPG out there. See OP's post for that.

Has anyone here actually tried the official RPG?

What exactly happens to Dagoth Ur as the Heart is getting disabled? In the game, technically, he disappears. Did he zero-sum? Vivec and friends didn't disappear. You can say it's because of the faith of their believers, but Dagoth also had this army of lepers who loved him a whole lot.

He's trapped in the Dreamsleeve and can no longer dream himself back into Mundus, I assume.

not really

Not exactly. The Heart was more his anchor, the thing keeping him in the world. With it gone, he's able to fully die. The reason Dagoth's in the dreamsleeve in the first place is because he's dead, just he's holding onto the heart to prevent him from falling into the oceans of the afterlife.

>Tribunal get their ass kicked by a ghost
Wow, they really suck.

For hundreds of years they were the ones doing the ass kicking, Dagoth Ur kept reviving along with the Ash Vampires. Then the Sixth House got lucky once and stole Keening and Sunder.

Weren't they only encountered once though? I thought Dagoth Ur only reformed once, and then ambushed the Tribunal. Prior to that he wasn't around.

No.

>"In the past, the Tribunal made seasonal campaigns to Red Mountain. We slew Dagoth Ur and his kin, though the Heart always revived them in time. Later, when we realized we couldn't destroy them, we created the Ghostfence to contain the threat. These solutions were effective until Dagoth Ur ambushed us and captured Sunder and Keening. Since that time, our fortunes have waned as his increased."

Ah, got it confused. Thought they were awake for thousands of years, but he only awoke at the end of the second era.
Also huh, that means the Tribunal have only lost the tools for about fifteen years according to the timeline.

Yep. Like I said, the Tribunal spent centuries kicking Dagoth Ur and his cronies all over the shop. It was just that one fuckup.

Probably Almalexia's fault.

It was more that the vampires stopped them from recharging their powers and ever reaching the heart chamber, so they became weaker and weaker.

Which happened because of the fuckup where they got ambushed and the tools were stolen.

No, this was prior to that. Each time from 882 to the end they tried and failed to reach the heart chamber to recharge their powers. By the time they lost the tools, they hadn't been able to charge up for many years.

Where's that ever said? Vivec makes zero mention of it in Morrowind.

en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dagoth_Ur's_Plans

>2E 882: The Tribunal arrive at Red Mountain for their annual ritual bathing in the heart's power. Dagoth Ur and ash vampires ambush the Tribunal. The Tribunes are driven away, and prevented from restoring themselves with Kagrenac's tools at the Heart of Lorkhan.
>2E 882-3E 417: Intermittent Tribunal campaigns assault Red Mountain. The Tribunal and supporting forces seek to force access to the Heart Chamber, but are repeatedly driven back.

Look up falchion or scimitar user

"Bathing" still sounds so dirty to me. Like they strip naked and get in a hot tub with the heart.

>scimitar
These arn't at all the same as machetes, these are swords used by light cavalry that slash through niggas, rather than chopping.

That said, chopping swords are alright and were used IRL, they're just less adaptable than straight, double-edged swords, which could be used for both slashing, cutting, chopping and stabbing.

>dirty
Sounds incredibly hot tbqh

I'm looking for more good ES lore, but I think I'm tapped out

I've read most of the in-game books and a good amount of MK's stuff. Is C0DA worth reading? I don't really like stuff that extends past the 4th era, but if it's good I'll check it out.

Or just tell me your favorite bits of lore/books/esoterica and we can circlejerk about that.

Not the new edition.

Have you read the Nu-Mantia Intercept?

Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, though it didn't need so many random nonsense words.

I can deal with dreamsleeve, and even memospore if it isn't used too often, but there was other shit that was pretty unnecessary.

The metaphysics and overarching connection of the game plots were fun though, and I did like the double meaning aspect of Elnofex

Someone made some cool Senchal concept art for our server, thought I'd share it
I'm not here to plug the server but if you have MC you can check it out

>Rice terraces
Hmmm yes this will do

What does a nightingale exactly do once he/she is in evergloam?

Is there any city in Tamriel that could match the beauty and prosper of Daggerfall? I doubt it, Wayrest tries but will never be Daggerfall's equal.

THERE IS BUT ONE CITY.

THE IMPERIAL CITY.

No, as grand as the Imperial Palace is the shacks that surround it mean it will never be an equal to Daggerfall.

Well, when you're the biggest city in Tamriel..

Go away MK, you're retarded.

Riddle me this, if Daggerfall is so great, why isn't it the capital?

Checkmate, Direnni.