Warmasters' Triumvirate: XXVIII

>Deshaine
I say we talk about him. What are people's interpretations of his character? (Not so much to overwrite what's been said, but to make it clear what we're all thinking and then have the user clarify, and then workshop from there)

After that, there's Isekho, who immediately springs to mind as a priority.

>Rahman speeding things up
Makes sense to me.

So in this vein, and for people who didn't see it, let's talk about Elsu:
>Elsu in brief
Elsu is something of an adrenaline junkie. If it wasn't for the damn mutation, he'd be something like a Corvus Corax with fewer scruples or a Khan without the philosophical bent. Elsu values the arts, to be sure, but he really lives for that edge. If he does art, it's as a musician, and he plays with the same intensity that he has when he's jumping out of the back of a thunderhawk at 30,000 feet. Actually, let's make that canon. He plays something that we can decide upon later, and Kincaid writes stuff for him.
The thing that keeps Elsu from being the cool brother with a motorcycle and bitches is that he's a mutant. And he knows that the galaxy hates him for it. He's not exactly bitter about it, not at first. He figures that they're going to improve that as time goes on and he is having a great time adventuring with Kincaid. He figures that just by being heroic, he can change some opinions, but he also know's he's not the greatest speaker and has a rather sharp sense of humor that comes out when he's pissed. So he deflects and lets Kincaid do the talking for both of them.
This would work out great in the long run, except that Kincaid gets made extra crispy and weird.

Elsu is also potentially surprisingly close with Deshane, both of whom don't quite feel the brotherly love.

Elsu and his legion, by extension aren't safe in the Imperium and know it. They deal with it through humor and by being careful about whom they make friends with.

Really, Elsu prefers to be out on the edge, wind in his face, slaying a monster or something and so the legion tries to stay out of the center of politics. Elsu values his friends closely, particularly because he understands what they're risking by being his friends.
Elsu really wants to take the high road on the whole mutant issue, but he'll also do whatever it takes to save his people. And this takes him down a very dark road. He feels like he allowed himself to be tricked into falling to chaos and even as he becomes the monster people thought he was, he knows what he's doing, hating himself for it.
There's a lot of self-loathing in it. He's not sure if he was too weak to die with dignity or what. Regardless, not a very happy Daemon-Primarch, hence why by 40k, he's more an Angron-Style plot device than an actual character.

We discussed Deshain, figured out some stuff that links into Yvraine, the Kurnasrai, and later Ereth Khial, and Commoragh.
More or less, Yvraine is his 'Man In Black,' who he chases across the galaxy, and he gets increasingly monsterous in his chase.
Per names, by the by, thinking the followers of Ereth Khial could be Kindraari (from a word meaning final victory, the death of all hope, thus Eldar of Final Victory, or Eldar who are the Death of All Hope), or Lacoiari (Eldar of Might and Glory, but also Eldar Who Fear Death, thus it fits well.) Also maybe Kenuiari (Eldar of Endless War, Eldar of Lingering Death).
Per the Ishaite elves, the name of Kurnasrai was based on the idea of them being associated with an incarnation of Kurnous, Isha's consort, but not sure. Quulari could be Eldar of the Tree of Life or Eldar of Regrowth (but also Eldar of Decay, which could link into something later, like if Isha is secretly actually corrupted by Nurgle somewhat?)

I like this actually, it plays in well with how the Corsairs operate and links up stuff.

Yeah, seems logical. While there is a rivalry between the Leviathan Host and the Corsairs over who is the best at void combat, the Corsairs definitely have navigation on lock. The best navigators and long ties with them too I bet.

>Fiery Spaniard Edition
Hell yeah!

>Map
I start this Tuesday again. Tomorrow I have an exam

>Je'She's view:
Je'She despises Deshain. To Je'She, Deshain is ruthless for the sake of it. He enjoys bloodshed for the perverse thrill of it, and not much else. He is merely the Emperor's war dog to be let loose in battle and caged any other time. Reasons ranging from Deshain's and his legion's lack of empathy towards imperial civilians as well as not aiding allies if it puts the Gunslingers in immediate danger. A particular sore point being when a Khafir campaigning alongside Deshain was shot in the knee when he questioned Deshain's tactics.

>My view:
I'm going to be honest, I think Deshain is a bit one-dimensional. He is a lone vagabond that believes in himself and himself only. It's a bit Gary-Stu-ish if you read the description.
Then again, this is coming from the author that has written Je'She as a humanity-loving hero that apparently has no weaknesses. I am currently working on that.
What I do like about Deshain as a character is that he is a character that is easy to dislike. He's the villain that everyone loves to hate and the concept of him and his legion is a pretty cool addition imo. I just think a bit more could be done to add depth

The Silver Blades developped close ties with the Chosen of Hecate, as they fought together with great success in the early days of the Crusade. The Titan Marchers are also Brothers-in-arms of Blades.

The Gunslingers are no doubt the biggest rival of the Silver Blades. Linares' thoughts about Kane have been absorbed by his Legion, and now they fight bitterly and savagely. The Death's Heads are also one of the Blades' rivals, more because of the different approach to the same problem than anything else. While the Death's Heads would brutally exterminate everything in a given planet, the Silver Bladed would brutally exterminate the enemy, the problem itself, avoiding civilian casualties.

Deshain must chose a path, it seems like he is wandering aimlessly in the character development part.

>Elsu

I really like this. Developing the relationship between Elsu and Deshain and hashing out a few prominent campaigns between them would make a lot of sense. Both are outrider legions, and their individual falling to chaos would influence the other, and vice versa.
How do you think the friendship between Kincaid and Elsu would affect the larger scheme of things, if it did?

>Elsu and Kincaid
I think it would have, if it hadn't been for the Conflagration. When Kincaid becomes the Burned Prophet, Elsu loses his friend.

At the moment Kane seems a little bit scattered but the character is cool. He will be very easy to fine tune and is a very important character for us in the story. Essentially has the highest body count of Primarchs too. Basically accounting for the Emperor and Raj as well as taking on Linares and Lambach at the siege.
From what I understand Deshaine is not actually the bad guy everyone thinks he is at first and this misunderstanding puts him at odds with a lot of his brothers and culminates when the Gunslingers defend a world with no help from other nearby legions.
He feels personally alienated but is unable to gain a true connection with many of his siblings.
He HATES Xenos in all forms but is tolerant of HUMAN mutants and psykers so long as they have the strength to stand up and fight for them selves. He despises weakness, if he had not fallen to Khorne he would most definitely have ended up with the Separatists. He is also meant to be a latent psyker who mistakes his own talents as simply amazing skill with pistols hence his "Gunkata". Not sure if I have missed anything important about him, but this is my understanding of the character to the best of my knowledge.
>Lambach on Deshain Kane
While I find my Brother’s peculiar "talents" with pistols fascinating I also find it very hard to reach a common ground with him.
He is quick to anger and has a deplorable disinterest in integrating those he finds easier to kill.
Once I admired his commitment to keeping his men safe, but we are here to protect those weaker and sometimes sacrifice must be made on their behalf.
Kane does not seem to understand that.

What Lambach and Rahman said is the deal.
In the early concepts deshain stsrted as the evil everybody hates char. But we discussed thst this was to one dimensional. So he starts out as the enforcer of the emperor. But loses his way and he always hunts the maid in black to get revenge for his homeworld.

He despises xenos but as stated not human psykers as long as they are not showing weakness.
I think his own weakness when he was shot in the head by yvraine is something he never forgive himself for. And ao he searches always the midst of battle and thinks his bros should do the same. An open attack is better than those sneaky plans others have.

He puts himself on a pedestral seeing him above hjs brotherd, fullfilling the emperors wishes. Putting him above others he also isolates himself. Only a few are not viewed with utter disdain

When he is denied the command on ullanor ( you have to trust your brothers and earn their trust to command) he falls from thst pedestral. His world view is shattered. When he lets the ork strangle the emperor he realizes that he has become the villain and from then on he gets quickly angered and commit those atrocities. Becomes more savage. The deshain we all love ( or hate).

So, the shot in the head thing. The Eldar don't use many weapons that would cause like that sort of hit, but perhaps Yvraine hits him with a Neuro Disruptor, which normally would kill someone but he's a primarch, so he manages to recover. There are rumors and accusations that his later descent may have been in part because of this damage to his neural system, but the reality is it's not, he actually recovered just fine, and the descent was all him, as were his violent tendencies.

>Prompt
The Titan Marchers, by their very nature, are supposed to get along with all of their brother legions to at least some extent. The only serious rivalry they have is with the Forge Lords. The Marchers and Lords both have strong ties to the Mechanicus and are both very shooty and prone to collateral damage. The rivalry largely comes from the bad blood between their Primarchs, as Mot and Raj cannot stand one another.

The Marchers have a friendly rivalry with the Death's Heads. based on their similar skills. They feel a sense of kindship with one another, but also do have an almost playful sense of one-upmanship.

While pre-Brotherwar the Marchers and Chosen of Hecate were some of the closest legions, post-Heresy the Titan Marchers detest Lambach and his sons for taking the corpse of their gene-father.

>Deshain
I did always imagine him as a very divisive character. He does try to do the right thing, but he steps on way too many toes on the way there. He's the kind of sheriff that would end up with a deserted town.

This I agree with whole heartedly.

Deshain needs both depth, in the sense that his actions need to be internally justified, but he also needs a consistent theme and personality. Deshain can be a bit of a dick and still have plenty of depth.

What should Warmaster Aristide look like?

I talked it over with FredAnon, and we both agree he should be tall and kinda lanky. Not like Linares or Pacha, but on the tall side nonetheless. Combine that with short, neatly combed black hair, a thick, but classy mustache and a pointy beard, and I think we're on the right path.

I have zero ideas about what his armor should look like, or if he should have any accessories.

Any thoughts?

This is just my two sense, and I'm a fag so feel free to discard

In my eyes, the Ideal Deshain Kane shares a lot with his namesake, Roland Deshain of the Eld. Roland is a good guy in the barest expression of the term, hes a bad guy working for the Good Cause. An Anti-hero. Cursed to redo his quest until he does it in a way that isn't shitty and grimdark.

He starts off as a young idealist, a romantic even, then he slowly descends into a brutal utilitarian, a decrepit, wizened killer of men. And then he goes back and starts it all over again, the cycle of Ka, the crushing wheel of Destiny, the flat circle that is time.

I feel Deshain should follow a similar path. He starts of as an idealistic adventurer, young Indiana Jones, punching Nazis and returning sacred relics, then he becomes older, more mature, more seasoned. He sees where the real fight is and assumes the role of John Wayne, charming lawman, and puts banditos in their place, dead or alive. But things keep getting worse and worse and worse, spiraling out of his ability to control them, to save folks. And all he's left with is two guns and a heart fulla vengeance. Two guns and the killing.

Once the Emperor shows up, he finds a man tempered by anger and sorrow.

But the Emperor is an opportunity for him to do it all over again, do some good not in a national, continental, or even planetary scale, but on a galactic, species wide scale.

So he picks back up his white hat, his shiney pistols, and glittering spurs, and fights the Good fight. But this time he's smarter, a not really a Doc Holiday type, nor fully The Man With No Name yet. Maybe he really is most like Roland here, Roland at his most just. The crusade is a fresh start for him, and he takes advantage of it.

He should look like pic related

I sort of meant for Einchurt to be the odd one out of the Loyalist Legions, his best friends are Marduk and Gyahdred, and he has a burgeoning respect for Mot, Zelbezis, and Isehko. He's sort of like Jaghatai in that regard, few or even none of the brothers he was close to stay loyal.

But things just never go right, his past haunts him, his repressed anger evolves and testers, the Crusade in and of itself is unjust. His life falls apart slowly as the very war he saw a second chance in gnaws away at his virtue and gives voice to his anger.

Once he gets shot in the head it's all over. The beginning of the end. Sure he bounces right back up, he's a Primarch, and a hardy one at that. He's the Coyote, he's the rattlesnake and the armadilo. You can't keep him down for long. But the seal on his rage is broken, and he has an excuse for disassociating and wallowing in the bloodshed.

But he's not evil, not really, not yet. His Judge Holdren has yet to hold court.

Once Ullanor happens, I don't think he should be passive. It's not Deshain, it's not Khornate.

I would say he and the Emperor get separated. The Emperor is swarmed by a Primeork and veritable horde of Meganobs. Deshain doesn't just sit there, paralyzed, he goes in for the kill, to rip, to tear, to strafe run, to get a quad damage power up and rip huge guts. But he gets stopped, a killa kan skwuad, or a deff dread, or even a Stompa. The Emperor goes down not because Deshain wouldn't pull a Horus and save, but because he couldn't. Then Deshain is plagued by his own weakness, and the question as to whether he just wanted to fight and therefore LET the Emperor die not only still plague him, but have a lot more weight. Being held up by a Stompa also kinda makes the Apocalyptican this bitter sweet milestone, a tainted victory and a mirror for his past, to show how far gone he is.

After that, it's a pretty straight path to the arms of Khorne.

That is sort of the look I was going for, though I don't actually want to give him a hat. And significantly younger.

As for Einchurt, I did imagine him and Raj being good friends. The one thing that I know Einchurt hates it's the pretentiousness of his brothers, pretending they are somhow better than glorified weapons of mass destruction. Raj makes no pretenses, he knows what he is and does his solemn duty. I think Raj could really be the only one among the loyalist he initially has a real relationship with.

I do imagine he'd be perfectly capable of just taking Raj's death in stride. Regrettable, but so is the nature of war.

I reckon he should have a few accessories. Maybe, since the Dragoons are based on Napoleonic stuff, he should a little Bicorn hat and perhaps a few pieces of sun iconography to reference Louis XIV (since he called himself "The Sun King" and Napoleon was a fan of his)

The sun iconography I can get behind, maybe on his chest instead of the aquilia. The hat, I don't know. It seems cool, but he couldn't exactly wear it with a helmet…

This coming from the guy that put a massive turban on his Primarch…

You know how he should look

...do you think Bicorn shoulder pads would be too silly? Because if not...

...

Fuck helmets then. Maybe he doesn't wear it, but still have it. Think in one of those protraits of important generals. When they weren't wearing their hats, they were close to them. Either they carried them under their arms, or they left the hat resting in a desk nearby.

Give him a baguette and you are closer to reality than anyone of us

This looks good. Deshain, check this

...

It would truly be a shame if Aristide wasn't wheighed down by the burden of ALL THESE MEDALS

>When medals stop boolets
Truly, if you want to give that Napoleonic General sensation, you cannot have less than 25 medals. Not counting the ones that you received more than once

You mean like this.

Being a manlet included?

Aristide shouldn't be short, he should be quite tall, sort of lanky even.

Einchurt is resident manlet

Napoleon wasn't particularly short for his era, that's British propaganda spread to discredit him. It was effective though, since many people hated Napoleon and of course the Brits did control a large chunk of the world and therefore could dominate the narrative.

And everyone wants their Primarch to be gigantic. Might be cool to have a few go the opposite route.

He isn't huge. He's tall, but lean. That's a body type rarely seen in a Primarch.

Plus, Napoleon short might've been propaganda, but still the obvious route.

Do you have any other primarchs in your AU with that body type?

Being short? Or being lanky?

Mot and Einchurt are actually really short, Raj isn't particularly tall either. Linares and Pacha are both really tall, but they're also really buff and massive, ESPECIALLY Pacha.

>The three shortest Primarch wear Terminator plate
Compensation much?

Either one, but mostly I was referring to lankiness.

Totally. Raj even puts in a big hat for good measure.

Nobody else is that lanky, no. In fact, I can't think of another Primarch from any of the AUs I've worked on that was.

Kincaid is one of the Tallest Primarchs, but he is more athletic and shredded rather than broad and built, think welterweight over Superheavy.

He is a bard-barian after all

Fred should be flat out lean. He's probably the fastest Primarch after Rahman

Deshain's response to:
"Good post. I think along those lines. He was this nice guy but he failed because his people were abducted by the eldar and he was shot in the head. He wandered the planet and became embittered. When the emp came it is really a fresh start. He tries to redeem himself. Protects his legion. Enforces the law if the emperor. He begins to see himself as better thna the otherd cuz he always is in the midst of battle while other think before they act. But as mentikned before thst isoltes him and all crashes down. When he is put into place by the emperor. He becomes the villain. Now i red the second post^^
Hmm. I want him actively choose to not do anything. To be selfish at that moment. I think having jim ignoring the pleas for help is imho stronger. The rest i think will fit. But he got shot in the head. And the craahing down comes from the emperor. I had in mind that maybe one of his former gang is a slave and deshain frees him but is to late. This could be one crack in his personality."

>Thread prompt: What are some rivalries that your primarch and his legion have developed over the long years of the Great Crusade?
Oh boy, where do I start? Mot is not well like in general, but I suppose that Mot and Raj's rivalry is the most well known, but it's already been detailed here. Mot initially thinks that Einchurt and his philosophy are pretty ballin', but once he realizes that Einchurt and his legion don't have designs for rulership over anything he kind of disillusioned and thinks that Einchurt is a hypocrite for saying that he's prepared to do anything for the Imperium while being unwilling to take charge at any point.

I want to detail Mot's first campaign at some point, as so far all I've said is that it was a failure and he underestimated his Xenos opponents. Orks maybe? I also need to talk about a campaign he took part in in the calixis sector where he, as the Last Terran, got the materials for the Vorpal Chains.

Also Mot becomes disillusioned with the imperium as a whole when he visits Terra for an extended period and sees the bureaucracy that comes about when Emps is distracted by the webway or injured on Ullanor. The exact same kind of bickering and politicking that occurred on Zharr-Hadad before he took power and what he sees as an inefficiency and a weakness.

Orks could work, you could use a WeirdWaaagh! and the Forge Lords aren't prepared to deal with that much concentrated Waaagh! energy

Q'orl? They are an interesting xenos race. Ants in spess, with space travel tech and weapons and such.

Actually, how about something where Kane can choose between an insane, suicidal charge to save the Emperor and saving himself from the Stompa or whatever bearing down on him.
He flinched so to speak and that's the problem.
The Deshane he wants to be wouldn't have hesitated.

>I want him actively choose to not do anything. To be selfish at that moment. I think having jim ignoring the pleas for help is imho stronger

I whole heartedly disagree.

Imagine writing that scene. The Emperor being literally dogpiled by shit tons of Orks. And Deshain Kane just standing there. Like an idiot.

Not only would it be awkward, but it's boring narratively. Besides, I very much so doubt that the Orks would just leave him be, unless Kane either joins in or makes some verbal confirmation with the Orks that he's cool with what's going on.

Which is even more awkward

On the friendlier side, competitive rivalries have often sprung with fellow brother marines of the Silver Blades, given how often they work together. Given that at worst it came down to biting banter, the two Primarchs in fact encouraged these, as Space Marines who came to see each other as fellow rivals would form powerful duos when fighting side by side (or back to back)

On the other hand, the perfectionism and uppity-ness of the Pale Hounds and Valorn's treatment of Pacha, as well as their constant rejection of offers from the Golden Mountains to help, caused the latter's legion to treat the former's with waryness and the desire to prove their ways wrong.

Later on, as Kincaid spread the Ecclesiarchy throughout the Imperium, the Golden Mountains began to dislike the Doomsingers, seeing their actions as against the intent of the Emperor. By the 41st Millenium, things have worsened, as inconclusive evidence of the Golden Mountains secretly supporting the Avalanche Company has begun to pile up, particularly when the company reappeared at near full numbers when the Doomsingers were sure they had been reduced to under a dozen.

He wouldn't just sit there and watch. He would be fighting in his own front, but leaving Empy alone deliberately. He wants Empy to go down, but he would like to survive

Well I guess that basically what I wrote with a different intent.

Basically the difference between Kane and me is just when he gets shot and when he goes evil

See

Yes, that could be a (the) variant.

Do we want any non-daemon primarchs to survive and not go missing all the way to M41?

Emil could survive, as he suggested him going down when the Nids show up.

Piter is a perpetual, so he doesn't have much choice.

Solomon becomes the Carmine Knight.

Also, we haven't really got an endgame for Frederick yet.

Gyahdred turns into a graphics card

Kincaid fucks off, tries to save Ashur, gets shot in the heart, set on fire, and tossed off a dam.

He's dead. Probably. Maybe.

He's off nurturing savages and teaching them the way of the The-Emperor

Alright, we should discuss Mot's eastern crusade. I've detailed how Mot goes about it but I don't think anyone has talked about the separatists' response to it or the ultimate outcome.

I'm at DnD, but I support this fully. Will post in future.

IDK, people didn't seem to like either the Daemon-Emil or the "Commits Sudoku to spit in the Hive Mind's Eye"-Emil stories, so I'm honestly kind of at a loss for anything to do with his story post fleeing back through the Ruinstorm after sneaking over to Terra.

Can you go over sudoku Emil? I think I missed when you mentioned that.

Kincaid REALLY hated the idea, but here's the story I wrote:

docs.google.com/document/d/1DBYKDJBBK44DydxyDIDD4Alou3IEhfC0YJCiHSYZKtU/edit?usp=sharing

Basically Emil turns his entire Legion into a 10^5 psyker-pyramid with him at the top, fatally overloads everyone (including himself) and attempts to shoot the Hive Mind in the face with the amplified power channeled through himself and the Pharos device. It doesn't work, but then Papa E helps out at the last second and (sort of) gives Emil some closure as he dies.

At least, that was my theory.

Emil's also super tall and fairly slender, his psybernetic limbs aren't very bulky but they're long and lanky to help in their role as psychic amplifiers/antennae.

If it's at all relevant to whatever, that is.

I for one, really enjoyed reading this. A great culmination of the narrative you've set out. I'd be happy with this as canon. I'm not as much of a fan of Chaos-Emil. It's also given me some ideas about Je'She's end as well.

also

Just so we know, there's no mention of the actual start of the ruinstorm in the timeline, The Hour of The Musth merely states it begins the groundwork for the ritual
We don't have any mention of the apotheosis of Hashut either, as far as I know
If you give me some dates I can do it if you like

The last bit was for referring to everyone, not just Emil lol

Kincaid fucks off, tries to save Ashur, gets shot in the heart, set on fire, and tossed off a dam.

He's dead. Probably. Maybe.

He's off nurturing savages and teaching them the way of the God-Emperor

I don't hate the idea, I hate the idea of the Souls being so super speshul and awsuum that they harm the inexorable pyschic horror known as the Hive Mind. THAT'S what I hate. Read the last thread and CTRL F Sothanids or Sothanites

Perhaps if it was a culmination of other sep Libarius' as well. Not just the Steel Souls?

Well, I'm going to need some more opinions then, since I've got one positive and one negative.

If there's a concern that it makes the Souls too special, then their author can't be the one to make any decisions regarding the idea's approval since I'm obviously biased.

I will say this though, I don't think it's unreasonable to posit that:

A: Killing 100,000 psychic Astartes and their Primarch (carnage on the scale of the Heresy)
B: Funneling that energy through a xenos beacon (which let's not forget, *on its own* was enough to attract the Nids from interstellar space),
C: Letting the Emperor stepping in to guide the Legion's energy (Emil on his own would still have failed in the end)
D: Stabbing the Hive Mind while its attention lay fixed on Sotha

might have some unusual effects. Special effects, maybe even snowflakey effects certainly, but I really think my logic holds up. Sacrifice buys power, that's the rule I always try to adhere to when writing, and this is the biggest sacrifice the Steel Souls can *possibly* make.

(And like I said, the Hive Mind's not dead, just wounded. Some of the Nids still hear its call, it's just no longer able to observe and control the entire species, and some Hive Fleets and Splinter Fleets begin to develop their own intelligence and diverge. And many Nids just go feral, which was the whole point of the sacrifice, to buy Humanity as a whole some more time.)

Also, previous thread has no mention of whatever Sothanids are.

I enjoyed reading this a lot.
It does seem to make the Steel Souls seem very powerful.
But on the other hand it wipes them out so a fitting end for a 1st founding Legion.
My question is, should we completely wipe 1 of the first Legions out? If we are fine doing that then it needs to be huge and this fits. Would they reform from successors?
Another thing to remember though is that the Emperor is a dick. He sees the Primarchs as tools to be used and nothing more. Not as sons to be loved. Which is fine if he just wants to sacrifice Emil to meet his own ends.

Personally, I don't think the Steel Souls would break into Successors. It doesn't fit their "familial" theme, nor does it fit the "Mind-web" element of their genetics. Breaking apart to the extent that Successors generally do leaves them far weaker than it would another Legion, they're much stronger in larger formations.

The Legion is Emil, and Emil is his Legion. Seemed more interesting that they'd both go down together. Of course, they're not immune to Chaos. Some would certainly have fallen and left the Legion over the millennia. Some would also certainly have broken away and gone renegade. Some might even have returned to the Imperium. So STRICTLY speaking, the Steel Souls aren't "gone", but for all intents and purposes they're no longer part of the narrative at the conclusion of this story, if that makes more sense.

Were they Loyalists, then they'd certainly still do so, but with a living Primarch and being Separatists, it seems far less likely that they'd abandon their Legion structure and practices.

The Emperor is a dick. He spurned Emil during the Heresy. He came back (sort of), and he helped Emil strike against the Hive Mind, validating Emil's sacrifice. Emil finds comfort in this at the end.

Alternately: The Emperor's ghost noticed a burst of psychic energy, stole it for himself, and did with it as he pleased, siphoning some of it to sustain himself.

Emil sees what he wanted to see in it, reconciliation. But that's not necessarily true at all, Emil's viewpoint isn't omniscient. Maybe the Emperor's apologizing in his own way, or maybe he's utterly self-serving. We can't know and I intentionally didn't say for sure. Maybe he just ate his kid's soul, lol.

Shit forgot this is a new thread. Thread before that, the one with Zelby

I lied.

Start here

I'll be honest, I reeeeeeeally don't want to dig that far back.

If the Emil Vs. Nids isn't acceptable to the group, then I just need to know that. The entire story, the entire "Sacrifice the Legion to perform X" is based around that event. I'm not digging my heels in and saying that the Steel Soul's story must go that way, but it *is* pretty much the foundation of that piece, without which the whole thing makes very little sense.

I've tried to rework and salvage stories before when ideas change, and it always ends in gibberish that everyone hates, including myself. I'd rather just put it to a Yes/No group vote so I can either start brewing a new idea, or move forward confidently with what I have.

I really don't care what we do with the Nids, they're of little personal concern to me. If you want to create "Sothanids", sure, go ahead. I just thought the psychic Hive Mind would be a good final boss/executioner for this AU's most psychic Primarch and his sons.

Read nigga The Hive Mind would add rape Emil. End of story. Get off your ass and read the posts I just linked to, because I won't dare regurgitate old rhetoric on issues that or more less agreed upon. Unless you want to hop into discord and we can hash things out more organically.

We've basically agreed to use the threads as broad strokes conversation, and use the servers to shitpost and meme, but also nitpick details and go over old issues.

I have a solution that was well detailed and largely liked here I suggest you read it before we bicker about how many half dragon kitsune are involved on Sotha

>Nids = Viruses

Nah. Carnifexes are way too cool in all their toothy glory for me to feel good about that. Also video game references are lame as fuck, and you should feel bad for copying them lol.

>The Steel Souls' death just alters the Nids' genes slightly.

Nah, that's boring as fuck. I'd rather go a different route entirely if that's what you're saying the end of the story actually is.

>The Hive Mind would add rape Emil

I mean, they *do* all wind up dead.
Including Emil.
And most of what the Legion built for 10,000 years.
And the Emperor actually managed to hurt the Nids, not Emil.

IDK how much more raped they can get.

I'll be honest? I really like it, though the Steel Souls don't have to disappear afterwards, necessarily. Leave a few remnants, and that could integrate into that idea of the Corsairs using their stolen and secretly stockpiled geneseed to help reconstruct the chapter (and possibly indebt them, which is also part of it as much as anything altruistic.)

It also explains more that one Fillibuster chapter I thought of that actually involved funneling psykers from the Imperium to the Seps, specifically the Steel Souls.

And I think thousands of Space Marine augmented psykers, plus a Primarch, PLUS the help of the Emperor channeled through weird xenostech totally could justify this. My vote is actually yes.

But I really do want Emil to get on Discord cus I would love to hash out that and a bunch of other stuff there too. :P

Agreed. If a legion is going to go (mostly) out, it should be in a blaze of glory.

>Discord
>Discord
>Discord
>Discord
>Discord
Lol.

Aaaaaaaaaaaight, tell ya what. I just got done with about 40 hours of stripping my grandmother's house of all her knicknacks so that we can sell it, but tomorrow I should be free all day.

Remind me how Discord actually works and how to get to our part of it, because the last time I tried to log in I accidentally jumped into an old D&D group I'd been in like a year ago and it was embarrassing because I never use Discord and I'm 150 years old.

And then I'll try to log in tomorrow, since I'm gonna crash for the night fairly soon.

First you're gonna want to download the app if you haven't already. The button to join a new discord is on the left under all the current channels you're in, which doesn't sound like a lot in your case. Choose to join a server and then you can paste the discord link we have in the doc, which I believe is under thread links.

>stealing/stockpiling geneseed for the Corsairs' purposes

If that's something you're working on, then sure I don't mind.

But they won't be Steel Souls, nor will there even be anyone to collect a debt from in the first place. They'll just be unusually psychic Marines of whatever organization you've created them as part of, and won't really know their heritage unless the Corsairs specifically try and teach them somehow.

Fair chance they would if only to try and preserve them. With the open question of why.

Possible Answers: Rahman is sentimental, Rahman wants to control another legion, Rahman is experimenting on something, Rahman is trying to preserve the Union by avoiding conflict over the SS territory. Rahman is covertly controlling two chunks of Union territory. Rahman has some master plan that requires all the legions to exist.

Which is true? Who knows! Rahman disappears before he explains. But the Corsairs are too loyal to stop trying to rebuild this shadow of a legion.

Since an event this big affects an entire legion, as well as a major faction in the 40K universe, I think we should take it up to a vote on whether we should give it the go ahead or not.

strawpoll.com/bwhg17p6

Mary sues are lame ad fuck, and you should feel bad for perpetuating them lol

I mean really. The EMPEROR HIMSELF, from his Psychic Iron Lung of Pain on Terra, reaches out from across the galaxy and pokes the Hive Mind in the Eye. Get out of town.

We don't have any benchmark in lore for how such an interaction would actually work out, and I don't want to answer that question by having the Emperor wrap his slowly decaying lips around the Steel Souls dong, considering logically he would have censured them.

>Hey this piece of dangerous Xenotech needs to be destroyed
>Lol nah

That's a paddlin'. And if the Emperor has the ability to just reach out and smite, where the fuck was he during the Beast?

And the Hive Mind getting hurt is a hard no from me. The kind of hard no that will have me walk, because there's no point in wasting time with people that are okay with that level of HFY wank.

As for your other "insightful" points, you clearly didn't read the required materials, or lack the reading comprehension skills required to fully understand the repercussions.

Look, I'm all for the event, I really am. But I'm not for the massive amounts of wank required to see it through when we've on our own kinda reached a less snowflakey consensus on how it goes down when you went on a sabbatical because, like, this was, like, stressing you out, man.

I'm for the event, it allows me to diversify and spice up the Nids without altering their core, and indeed playing into it.

I'm Just not willing to Suffer the Donut Steel to Live

>Mary Sues

I mean, if this is the level of fundamental disagreement we've got going on here, this is really not an issue we're going to solve. You will never accept the story I've written. I'd kind of like to keep my story, but I'm not so invested in it I want to fight a perpetual war with you over your personal Xenos faction.

Therefore, I'm just going to drop the issue and move on. I've pretty well soured on the whole thing.

>you went on a sabbatical because, like, this was, like, stressing you out, man.

And as far as this goes, go fuck yourself. Shit's been busy in personal ways entirely unrelated to my distaste for using Discord, which just so happened to occur in a similar timeframe.

I wake up at four, work from six to six, go to the gym for an hour or two, then hop into bed no later than nine thirty, while scrambling to find time for college and vidya. It's been like this for the past three years, and will be like this for ten more months until I escape from the armed services, disappear into some isolated island nation, grow a beard, and get fat. I don't want to hear about """busy"""

As for Sotha, you can shift the narrative to me being upset about Behemoth getting Ultra'd, but if you'd taken the time to get caught up on the narrative, you'd know not only is that wrong, but dumb.

I like the idea, hate the wank. There doesn't need to be a vote, you need to catch up, or be a more active part of the conversation

We have got to resolve this animosity between you two or this entire project is going to be tainted. Need to simmer down.

No, that's cool. You've raised the stakes to a "This town ain't big enough for the two of us", you've found your hill to die on, you've drawn your line in the sand. Cool deal soldier, I'm glad you're pleased. You'd make a fine Guardsman, holding the line.

>wasting time with people that are okay with that level of HFY wank
> lack the reading comprehension skills required to fully understand the repercussions.
>having the Emperor wrap his slowly decaying lips around the Steel Souls dong, considering logically he would have censured them
>you'd know not only is that wrong, but dumb.
> There doesn't need to be a vote, you need to catch up, or be a more active part of the conversation

These are the things that are being said to me. Kincaid's decided he's right. Period. He's decided I'm an idiot/ignorant/lazy. He's decided to unilaterally declare that if I push my idea any further, he is *literally going to leave the project*. Even if every single other project contributor liked my idea, this would trigger him so hard he's out.

And you're sitting here asking people to "simmer down". Come on dude. Can you not see how inaccurate that request is?

I'm honestly tempted to push my idea even harder now, just to force him out, since apparently I have my hand on that lever, because he put it there!