/tgesg/ Weekend Elder Scrolls Canon Discussion

Does this eventually talk about Menevia, or is it just Wayrest?

High Rock is pretty interesting, but how would you translate this to a game without making it generic high fantasy capeshit? Would you go full on nostalgiatrip and include old time dragons and orcs and generic-ish medieval plate armour, next to witches and demons? Basically, how to do it not like ESO?

>Rice terraces

>Would you go full on nostalgiatrip and include old time dragons and orcs and generic-ish medieval plate armour, next to witches and demons?
Mostly. Except for dragons, replace them with Rocs or some other massive bird creature. Basically, rather than just go Tolkein and try to spin something unique off it, base it on medieval stories and art. Lots of color, druid groves, oracles in the forest, witches and wizards galore.

Also Landsknecht-inspired mercenary guild. Fabulous as fuck.

>Lots of color, druid groves, oracles in the forest, witches and wizards galore.

Ie go full fucking Tolkien.

Most people say C0DA is canon because it was referenced in Sermon 37

To be clear, I'm not saying C0DA is canon, I'm saying IF people try to prove its canonocity, they usually cite Sermon 37 as an example.

But that doesn't matter if you think ESO isn't canon.

Either way canon arguments are retarded/

What did he mean by this?

But yes, I agree, have hobgoblins and dryads and hagravens and just plain regular old hags and what not.

>Tolkein
>Witches
????

>any of that
>tolkein

It'll get there in a bit. Wayrest has a lot of history to go through.

As of the late 3rd Era, Wayrest fell into the hands of King Eadwyre, or rather into the hands of Queen Mother Barenziah and her children, Lord Helseth, who later becomes the King of Morrowind, and her bastard daughter Lady Morgiah of Wayrest who has explicit dealings with the Order of the Black Worm, trading her first born child in exchange for Firsthold, birthplace of Emperor Regent Ocato, which she later rules as Queen. A small sucession crisis took place as King Eadwyre's daughter and Barenzia's step-daughter Elysana feuded with Helseth for control of the throne of Wayrest, backed by the devious Lord Woodborn, his own bloodline possibly connected to the Gardener clan via bastardry.

Menevia is a less documented region, once home to the aforementioned Pariah Abby and later absorbed by Wayrest during a period of rapid expansion. As a result, discussing it is nearly impossible without returning to the topic of the Petty Kingdom of Wayrest.

The city for which the region was named is or was a walled settlement, build in a similar vein to Wayrest and Daggerfall, and holding no less than 16 bars, 3 jewelers, 3 pawn shops, and a pair of rather cramped libraries. It was also home to a Thieve's Guild outpost, as many of the major cities of High Rock were around the time of the Warp in the West. The local temple was dedicated primarily to Dibella. The city also boasted an impressive graveyard, though whether it or the city itself still stands as of the 4th Era and after being subsumed by Wayrest is unknown.

The area itself is a grassy hill covered region, home to the beautiful Cumberland Falls, and positioned precariously close to the site of Orsinium

Oddly enough, the region, or at least Pariah Abby seemed to already be in deference to Wayrest in the 2nd Era, although that may have had more to do with it being King Emric's personal holding than anything else.

It shouldn't be surprising, given the wealth of the region and the existence of more than a dozen skeevy bars all within 4 miles of eachother, that these two regions have a long history of criminal activity.

At one time, a pervasive organized crime ring known as the Midnight Union dominated the criminal underworld along coasts of the Illiac Bay, with a strong presence in Wayrest. Notable exploits include destroying the light house to maroon incoming merchant ships, attacking Pariah Abby in conjunction with the Supernal Dreamers, and generally being unpleasent folks. Once their power began to wane within Wayrest City, a new group known as the Backstreet Bo- er, Gang took their place, causing less sever but still frequent crimes through the lower class areas of the Residential District. Even the sewers of Wayrest were infested with criminals, up to and including the disgraced Investigator Garron who plotted the downfall of the city from under it's streets.

Fortunately, as of the 3rd Era such things seem to be less common, though the Guild still holds a strong presence in the region.

That's all I've got for the general history, anything more specific you wanted to know?

When playing an Elder Scrolls game, can you actually see the constellations of the various signs when you look at the sky?

Nostalgiatrip sounds fair - half of what I like about Daggerfall is how comfortably old it is. Sometimes you don't need to make something feel new, if what is really liked about it is how classic it feels.

High Rock is also pretty interesting politically, since it has so many kingdoms in a loose confederation only when they're not squabbling, along with trade and warring with the nearby Redguards and Orcs. You could take cues from history for shit like that, as well as legends and myths.

You're assuming Bethesda is anywhere near that thorough.

Can we all agree that the Thalmor are the objective good guys of Elder Scrolls? They only want what is best for all races.

The only good Altmer is a dead Altmer, get out of my province.

I'd like to think they could be, since they have the two moons and all.

I know you at least can see the Warrior, the Mage and the Thief in Morrowind.

We don't know.

He was going to show up in the actual game, but didn't because Daggerfall's development was a mess. I kind of suspect that the Agent was meant to slay him at some point.

The reason he's not mentioned again is probably because he's pretty obscure, and Bethesda might just have forgotten.The dragon from Battlespire isn't ever referenced again either.

>her bastard daughter Lady Morgiah
No.

Sure, but if you check, this argument was written 3 years ago, before Sermon 37.

Explain this meme to me.

>black N'wahs with swords

kek, fucking Dunmer.

>Swords

>Not CURVED swords

Dr. Septim, I'm CIA

Morgiah was a bastard. She's the daughter of General Symmachus. Unless you meant her having power over the kingdom, in which case I guess that's sort of subjective. The fact that she had direct dealings with a powerful necromancer coven and is capable of extending enough influence to keep it quiet and sell off her child to Mannimarco without anyone noticing implies to me that she's got substantial power, but that may just be an interpretive error on my part.

>full on nostalgiatrip
That's exactly how I would do it. In my mind, the best way to portray High Rock is as a love letter to classic High Fantasy, emphasis on chivalry, courtly love, rescuing fair maidens, dashing rogues, all that jazz. Part of what makes High Rock stand out to me is that in contrast to Morrowind's alien environment, Skyrim's harsh bandit infested wilds, and Cyrodiil's Pax Romana but Also Samurai and Ancient Elf Nazis gimmick, High Rock is a more traditional style of fantasy, which ironically makes it more unique.

I don't know what these are but they would look cool in Colovia.

Now I'm more confused.

what does c0da mean?

What can you tell me about the Imperial Navy? Where is it located? What's its state?

The name of a spin-off story by former writer/currant guest writer Micheal Kirkbride. Blends some of the more obscure elements of TES lore with sci-fi into a weird trippy story following Hlaalu Hir as he battles coming of age, bad drug trips, excessive amounts of eastern philosophy, and the Numidium in the late 5th Era.

Following up on this, his philosophy in regards to world building is that it should follow an "open-source" style and encouraged people to create their own C0DAs, essentially dedicated headcannons that they ascribe to and use them to interpret and build off of existing lore.

Assuming in the time of Skyrim

>What can you tell me
It's pretty large but not the dominant force in the world, that'd be the Thalmor navy.
>Where is it located
Probably spread out around Imperial holdings, like real life navies.
>What's its state?
Perhaps a bit antiquated with old ships and not many fresh recruits, but far from terrible.

The Imperial Navy isn't really as well documented as the Legions or the Battlemage corps. Ostensibly, it has presence throughout controled territories, likely more-so in areas of interest to the EEC. They apparently take a role of military specialists rather than policing the seas, as can be infered from the general impunity pirate crews like the Blood Horkers, Blackblood Marauders, and The Ordinator's Revenge. It should also be noted that the Red Sabre Pirates were explicitly defeated by Cyrodiilic naval milita, not the Imperial Navy This lack of policing could also be explained by the waning power of the Empire itself however.

During the reign of Uriel V, Esroniet was a major hub for the Imperial Navy, and the main port of call for ships being deployed to Akavir, though in modern times little is known of it. In all likelyhood, the Imperial Isle, Topal, or Rumare are the best picks for a major drydock in modern times.

The precursor to the modern Imperial Navy was most likely, the All-Flags Navy, a collation effort based out of the Colovian Estates to launch a crippling blow against the Sload in recompense for unleashing the Thrassian Plague, spearheaded by the legendary flagship The Golden Era.

I imagine that frigates due to how out of place they look in this medieval time period are of Altmer design which the Empire merely adopted from the Ayleids, assuming we are in a period without the lateen.

...

Well there's also some lore about the use of cannons during the war between the Empire and Hammerfell, so I guess the navy is just super advanced for some reason. Probably because most people associate naval combat with the Age of Sail.

I actually don't like excessively curved swords. I prefer a slight curve, just feels more elegant to me.

And thanks to everyone last thread who helped me with Redguard lore! You're all aces.

I believe Stros M'Kai was a port for the navy during Tiber Septim's reign, might have stayed that way due to it's strategic proximity to Summerset.

>cannons
That I did not know, like early 13th century ones I assume?

That reminds me. Anyone mind the occidentalization of the Redguards in Skyrim and ESO?

I assume he was asking about actual meaning of the name: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coda_(music)

...

How do you mean?

I have heard many times there was cannons in Redguard ships too. Would be nice to have picture of them though.

I guess they're limited to navy use for some reason like them being very expensive or that battlemages aren't very useful artillery on the seas.

I disagree, I really do, mostly because the common thinking is that frigates are from the age of piracy or something, which they aint, it's compeltely possible for the empire to have so-called frigates.

As a plus point, like others have pointed out, the Imperial navy likely isn't actually made for ship-to-ship fighting, more probably they're just a way for Imperial soldiers and more specifically Imperial Marines to get around.

Well, I disagree with the thesis behind the question. If you look at Redguard and Daggerfall Hammerfell wasn't nearly as DUDE MOORS LMAO as in Skyrim and ESO.

Keep in mind that Redguard and Daggerfall had a different style to them, a more early modern kind of thing going on. Skyrim is like the 10th century, thematics-wise, while Redguard and Daggerfall is 16th century.

Redguards just don't like mages in general.

There was also quest in Skyrim which had a ship fire explosive projectiles at player and it was pretty obvious they were meant represent some sort of cannon.

>I disagree with the thesis
I don't understand what you mean by that.

Arabized essentially.

Skyrim is just primitive province though. Other imperial provinces are apparently still late medieval to reneissance style.

Huh, to an extent. I dislike that they don't have more influences like Sub Saharan or Ethiopian African.

This armor is fucking rad as fuck, though.

>Morgiah was a bastard
No. Symmachus was Barenziah's husband.

>sell off her child to Mannimarco
Again not the case. This whole affair is kind of strange and requires some knowledge about the development of the games to get.

I swear, user, you're going to get bad marks in Dunmeri Political History 101 if you don't properly read your textbook.

What I'm getting at. It strikes me as lazy characterization to depict them like this while not drawing any Sub Saharan influences.

Yes, but Imperial Navy also apparently uses cannons.

>I don't understand what you mean by that.
I don't think they're getting occidentalized, I think they're becoming less and less western and more and more Near Eastern, the opposite pretty much.

That's what I was referring to.

That armor is fanart if you're wondering, pretty sure.

I think much of their religious practices are Yoruba-based, but ESO's depiction is just weird since they're all over the place. They're Arabic cities and names, but they have this utterly forgettable arms and armor that look bog standard fantasy European.

You realize the Occident is Western Europe, not the Middle East, right?

You could be set for architecture if you based it on Ethiopian churches that date back to Christ.

Yeah, that's why I threw in the mention of it. Ethiopia has a lot of cool history. Though truth be told, I think I'd rather fuse that architecture with West African stuff and then put your fantasy spin on it. Avoid just copy and pasting human civilization.

>I don't understand what occidentalism is the post

Original Redguard (the game) had Arabic influences too. It was just more mediterranean and very advanced (like 17-18th century) due to pirate theme.

Shit, no I didn't... Damn auto correct.

>Let's make them African because they're black
Please don't do that

>I don't understand what occidentalism is; The post

>utterly forgettable arms and armor
That's most of ESO's gear.

Pic related is a set of Yokudan armour.

Meant for.

I make a mistake. I'm sorry alright?

It's cool my dude. To answer the question as you intended it; Yeah, I dislike how it's becoming generic arabian nights, really shows a lack of imagination and a bordering on uncomfortable implication of racism where "They're black so they're african so they're muslim" seems to play a big role.

I'm right with you on the West Africa.

I think ZOS got a new armor designer for Morrowind, some of it looks pretty good

>Let's make them African because they're black
This is kinda funny because Redguards have never had African stuff in any game. Original Redguard portrayed them as having mix of Arabic and western architecture with generic 17-18th century western clothes. Morrowind pretty much continued with that and then Skyrim made them like Arabs or Moors.

I personally prefer the original though even if it's quite generic.

I didn't even know Zanzibar had a fort. It would look great in the Elder Scrolls universe.

...

...

>we wuz winged hussars

I feel pretty sad that modern TES armor looks so bland compared to Morrowind. That's far better than Skyrim and ESO in general, but if that's supposed to be the ebony armot, it's really lacking compared to original Morrowind version.

Holy shit! The thread is alive! I've been running the best campaign I've DM'd in years and it's because of you guys! Fuck! Lemme war story at you.

>Nord, Reachwoman, Argonian and Khajiit are all caught by a Telvanni mage for various reasons.
>Nord picked a fight in a bar in Vivec and was purchased from prison.
>Argonian was a Shadowscale operating in Morag Tong territory and got bagged.
>Khajiit was tricked into attempting to rob the mage on the promise of a big score.
>The ex-Forsworn was promised she'd find super medicinal reagents in the mage's tower.

>The guard in this fungal prison never sleeps, never takes a break, simply paces, completely obscured in bone armor.
>Nord decides he has enough and hits the guard with a lightning rune.
>The Guard "Wakes Up" under the impression that he is a Breton Knight of noble lineage.
>Khajiit insults his honor somehow.
>The "Noble" proposes a duel right there in the prison and releases the prisoners to accomplish this.
>Since they don't have weapons or armor, the Noble begins shedding his sword, shield and helmet for rousing fisticuffs with this rambunctious cat person.
>It's a skeleton.
>A skeleton in bone armor.
>The party manages to convince the skeleton to call off the duel until they can get somewhere more public, appealing to his need for showmanship.
>They go through several scamps and poisonous experiments before escaping.
>With a Telvanni ship on the horizon, they decide to swim to the next nearest island.
>It's Tel Fyr.
>They meet up with Divayth Fyr who explains he's engineered their capture to inspect the effects of being a prisoner on one's destiny.
>In order to stay neutral from that point onward, Fyr informs him that they will never see him again but before they go he patches their wounds, "sells" them equipment and gives them tailored quests.

>The Forsworn is given a lead on Crimson Nirnroot.
>The Shadowscale is informed that the Night Mother is in danger, threatening the religious loyalty of the Dark Brotherhood outside of Black Marsh.
>The Khajiit is told of a fantastic artifact which is being held near Direnni tower which would be the greatest score in history if stolen.
>The Nord only wants a worthy foe.
>Fyr "summons" the Ebony Warrior into the world to seek out the Nord and duel him.

>With that, they're warped to Vivec to begin their journey.
>Seeing as how the issue with the Night Mother is more pressing they endeavor to head south but are sidetracked when a Khajiit slave bumps into the party's own Khajiit, handing off a key.
>After some digging around, they find out the key is to a skooma stash hidden under the foreign quarter of Vivec.
>Apparently, the Khajiit of the party fucking hates skooma with a passion that burns brighter than a thousand suns.
>...
>They set the massive skooma stash on fire and run.
>Thousands of drakes worth of skooma.
>Gone.
>They book it while the entirety of the Foreign District suddenly gets high from the smoke rising into the streets.
>The party runs to the docks and finds a tavern with a massive fish skeleton on it.
>Seeking passage to the mainland they ask around for a capable sea captain and are reccomended to the owner of the bar: "The Fisher King"
>They find an imperial upstairs, surrounded by women, gloating about his adventures.
>Using some ash yam dumplings they bought, they negotiate a price for passage on his boat by saying that the dumplings could give him "Carnal Vitality".
>Somewhere in the course of this, the Khajiit is fucking around and climbs the bar, only to find that the giant fish skeleton that the Fisher King was bragging about is actually made out of Bone Resin and he's full of bullshit.

I think it's steel crafted in a great house style, not sure which.

I like the little detail of rank based on feather amount.

Now this is much better design, but overly ornamental JRPG style decoration kinda makes it bit goofy.

>While they're waiting for the Fisher King to utilize their magic dumplings
>As it turns out the bar is now filled with guards due to them investigating the Skooma crisis in the foreign district.
>A fight breaks out and the Fisher King escapes with the party, mostly because they were in the right place at the right time to help his escape.
>They get on the Fisher King's boat and sail into the night.
>That night, everyone has the same dream.
>A pudgy, smiling, bald, red demonic figure, holding the a miniature Fisher King by his legs, slitting his belly and draining the blood of the sea captain into a golden, jeweled chalice.
>They are then offered to drink from the cup.
>The Nord is the only one who drinks.
>They wake up to find the Fisher King in his luxurious captain's quarters, surrounded by skooma pipes and bottles of fortified wine.
>Upon closer inspection, it looks like some beastly figure may have held him down and forced him to drink the last few bottles.

There's more but I'll post later, I gotta go run errands!

Responding to what the two lads I quoted wanted to do, rather than what is actually happening.

If you look at ESO, it's basically just Al-Andalus but with the trademark ESO feel of dark materials in a perfect geometric shape.

It kinda reminded me of armors in Skywind mod, especially the helmet. I wonder if they hired the guy who made that as designer.

What did they mean by the Forsworn being the "the most mixed" in the Guide to the Empire? Mixed with what exactly?

I think Reachmen are supposed to be Nord/Breton mudbloods and Breton are already Elf/Man mongrels so Reachmen may be seen as having the least purity of lineage.

>Avoid just copy and pasting human civilization.

This, this, a million times this. Something that I enjoyed about parts of Elder Scrolls lore is that half the races and civilizations aren't obviously based on real world cultures, or are at least so much of a mix with fantasy flavors on top no one is dominant. History does have a lot of cool shit that I think people pass over, but slapping on a cultural coat of paint isn't as interesting as something that seems to have formed within its own setting and universe.

I will admit that I'm disappointed that only the Dunmer in Morrowind seem to have pulled this off in-game. The lore descriptions of factions can be fantastic, but once they're in a game developers seem to have to take shortcuts to make it more familiar to audiences or so they don't have to design everything from scratch.

>giant fish skeleton that the Fisher King was bragging about is actually made out of Bone Resin
Clever. This sounds like a lot of fun.

>Mixed with what exactly?
Yes.

>Symmachus was Barenziah's husband.
Oh hell, you're right. I apparently confused General Symmachus with Tiber Septim and his apocryphal aborted child and am now very confused as to how I fucked up that badly.

I am fairly certain the letter she sent to Scourg Barrow did imply she'd be handing over her firstborn however

>King of Worms,
>I agree to your terms. I will give you my first and you will exert your influence on the King of Firsthold on Sumerset Isle. Only you can let him speak with his dead son. For that, he would even marry Nulfaga!
>-- M

The implication here being, as I understood it, she agreed to trade the life of her first born child for the use of Mannimarco's necromantic talents , which in turn she would utilize in manipulating the bereft king of Firsthold into marrying her.

If I miss something please explain it. I really need to pass Dunmeri Political History, that screwup in Vintage Potions 130 really tanked my GPA.