I want to play as a grey jedi!

My character, Amo'eba, is the powerhouse of the Jedi Council.

>Have not followed canon recently
I think you don't understand what the new canon is trying to accomplish

>Rebels made the second canon, there're a faction that is literally "no sides in the Force just use what you want lol" and they were painted as the faction that is right

Why is Moorcock's Law and Chaos doing in my Star Wars?
And why, unlike in the former, does it sound so fucking retarded?

...

Because Star Wars is Good vs Evil. The Dark Side isn't Chaos, it's Satan, the One Ring and meth rolled into one. By changing that, you retroactively make the Original Trilogy meaningless.

Moorcock's work has a punk ethos, the "right way" is in self-determination. Star Wars is intentionally naive and draw on fairy tales by way of Campbrell with objective morality. Evil only exists to tempt, threaten and corrupt the characters, it's not a faction with legitimate arguments.

>wants to be a grey jedi instead of a grey knight

kys

>Because Star Wars is Good vs Evil
Not anymore faggot

Shove your cartoon up your ass. There's still a clear distinction between the jedi (good guys) and evil psychos with red lightsabers (bad guys) in the movies.

The cartoon is canon, get over it.

...

>I'm going to play as a light side sith

Luke used force choke way before anything you mentioned

Only if you accept that you will be called a Gredi Jedi, with both words having a soft i so that they rhyme with ready.

10,000 hours

The sith philosophy makes a lot more of sense than the jedi code

I don't hate this, please give more backstory.

The Jedi are literally based on Taoism, the term light side isn't even in the original trilogy. The second "Dark Side" went from a way of using the force and became a literal evil god is where shit started becoming retarded.
This is also a problem, your villains on paper sound more reasonable then your heroes, and yet they're all eventually babypunchers because LOLCORRUPTION.

"Might makes right" is not a philosophy, it's how niggers solve arguments.

"Might makes right" is a pretty shallow interpretation of the sith code. You could also say it preaches channelling your emotions constructively rather than denying them.

>You could also say it preaches channelling your emotions constructively rather than denying them.
You could say all kinds of shit, but that's not how the Sith do.

The problem is the difference between theory and practice.
In theory, the Sith are pretty alright folks who just view the Force differently.
In practice, Sith means antagonist means puppy-kicking cartoon villain.

Gray Jedi CAN be done well, but they're usually not. The only time I ever ran Star Wars, the gray Jedi guy outright admitted that he though being a gray Jedi meant he could use Sith powers without having to deal with the Dark Side.
I mean, if you want to explore the morality of using the dark side for altruistic purposes, and in doing so walk the thin line between light and dark, then that's excellent, but 99% of the time they just want to use Sith lightning with no consequences.

>not grey sith

It's the same problem with the Jedi Order, desu. In theory, they're a consummate good - promoting a selfless ideology, dedicating their lives to altruistic work, and constantly exerting self restraint in the face of unlimited power.

In practice, they stifle individuality and free expression through rigid adherence to tradition, and they frequently fall short of their goals by refusing to acknowledge their own humanity.

It's almost like the problem with ideologies is that they're ideal and fail due to human failings.

It has to do with the origins of the Force users in the EU.

The Sith served the race of true sith as warriors and elite guards. the Jedi arose to try and challenge them. The problem is that use of negative emotion can be turned against you by the sith. So the jedi channeled and controlled their emotions so that the sith couldn't use that as a weapon against them. The resulting war ended the rule of the true sith, scattered the sith lords, and left the jedi with a bunch of power and literally nothing to do with it.

Sith lords tend to want a return to power, jedi hang around waiting for sith lords to show up. They turned themselves into a semi-police force looking for sith lords and investigating situation that the sith might have been involved in. After a couple hundred years both sides devolved into a self involved peacekeeping force and a bunch of edgy tryhards.

No, actually, they're not. "Gray Jedi" are not a thing except in Legends

There are factions who use the Force in different ways, but they are not Jedi.

Bendu and Ashoka Tano seem to differ

Also even in legends Jolee Bindo the Gray Jedi by excelence, wasn't a Jedi anymore

consider that most Jedi are a bunch of self righteous cunts whom lack the ability to display emotion because of "mah wisdom" and shun violence yet constantly got evolved in wars.
Also consider that most Sith are a bunch of retarded power hungry psychopaths.

Now there is this new player whom wants to be a force user because he likes the movies yet has gotten tired of the never ending memery of both factions and just wants to play his/her own thing.

Can you really blame the player for not wanting to be a Jedi or Sith and just play his own special snowflake ?

Bendu was never a Jedi in the first place, so "gray Jedi" is a complete misnomer for him.

Ahsoka is explicitly no longer a Jedi. She left the Jedi behind nearly two decades prior to her appearance in Rebels, and as such has been "not a Jedi" for longer than she was actually a Jedi.

>he thinks Grey Jedi means Jedi
Again, Jolee Bindo, the grey Jedi by excellence in previous EU wasn't a Jedi either

>The term Gray Jedi, or Gray, had two meanings. First, it was used by Jedi and Sith to describe Force-users who walked the line between the light and dark sides of the Force without surrendering to the dark side, and second, it described Jedi who distanced themselves from the Jedi High Council and operated outside the strictures of the Jedi Code

It wasn't just a Jedi. Is like the term Dark Jedi, guess what, they weren't Jedi

>Jedi in the name
>Not a Jedi

Nah.

And besides, Jolee left the Jedi - he didn't "distance himself from the Council" as much as he literally broke all communications with them and had nothing to do with the Jedi again until Revan showed up.

A better idea of the "gray Jedi" is Qui-Gon. Still a Jedi, still does Jedi things, but disagrees with the council.

>I wanna play a force user who isn't a cultist
Sounds like a sensible person to be honest

>Dark Jedi
>Jedi in the name
And not a Jedi, how weird, I guess you should tell George Lucas he got the name wrong.

George never called them Dark Jedi, that term was a pure EU creation, and more often than not actually referred to Jedi who fell.

Darth Vader was the Lord of the Sith from the very beginning. It's part of his title in the 1976 novelization.

>that term was a pure EU creation
And so were Grey Jedi, srly, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

>and more often than not actually referred to Jedi who fell.
And less often than yes were referred to dark side users. Same with grey jedi and force users who don't fall neither in the light nor in the dark side

>pure EU creation
Probably, but Dark Jedi is used in Clone Wars a couple of times plus in the new, and canon, comics.

>but that's not how the Sith do.
True, but that's more because of their crazy succession rules and other beliefs. The code is in of itself is pretty decent. Hell, you could actually follow the code and not be a sith...

>Light side

Reminder that we wouldn't be having this debate, if the prequels didn't ruin the jedi forever.

Star Wars was only good vs. evil in the rough draft.

There is no true right or wrong, and if it were otherwise it'd be dumb.

Look up the unifying force. Big school of thought in canon followed by many Jedi and Sith that teaches the Force has no sides, it just appears however the user's emotions want it to.

Unifying Force is Legends, not canon.

And no, saying it was only good vs evil in the rough draft is wrong. That's... like, completely wrong. I don't even understand how you could be so wrong.

They are literally knights fighting against evil wizards and fallen knights wielding dark powers, leading the not!nazis who fucking destroyed a planet just because they could.

Yes, there is nuance there. But to deny that it's black and white? Seriously?

Literally the entire premise of Knights of the Old Republic 2 was half about Grey Jedi.

the other half was looking for the secret option C that would have done away with Red and Blue morality in the Universe and instead empower Jedi into much more logical beings.

But you honestly can't find a better campaign than what Obsidian made so I would have just dropped the player.

>Dark Side

Woah woah woah.

OT is about one of the worst Jedi of all time teaching an 18 yo idealistic moisture farmer what a Jedi was so he didn't die immediately to the empire's forces, and that naive shit eventually got to his all-powerful dad who turned against the SINGLE evil wizard in existence because he literally purged others that might usurp him except for one half-robot nave.

The Prequels (most likely unintentionally) shows the way a bloated bureaucracy becomes more obsessed with preservation than progress and collapses into fascism - complete with the Jedi in the cartoons and otherwise being strikingly hypocritical in their stated methods compared to their actions.

Morality being black and white in Star Wars is only because there is evil magic space Hitler versus literally anything else in comparison to that.

>Evil only exists to tempt, threaten and corrupt the characters, it's not a faction with legitimate arguments
This, holy fuck. Why is it that so many people don't get something this simple?

Star Wars isn't some complex commentary on philosophy or the nature of evil. It's a simple adventure story. The Dark Side exists solely to be an obstacle for the heroes to overcome.

>OT is about one of the worst Jedi of all time teaching
Nothing of the sort is implied in the OT.

I'm a xenosfag, and even I say the Grey Knights are great.

aren't jedis grey jedi?

I thought it was just the FORCE and then the dark side that was like a little baby offspring of the force.

like the light side is just a bunch of crap people made up.

>aren't jedis grey jedi?
No. They're just Jedi.

>like the light side is just a bunch of crap people made up
Yes.

That's definitely the original portrayal of the Force. But Lucas has never been consistent in his vision.

Originally, there was only The Force. When it was misused, that was the "dark side." Balance did not mean "light and dark in equal measure." It meant balance in the way feng shui seeks harmony. Correctness of thought and action. The problem is that dualist thinking is deeply embedded in western culture, so there was significant confusion.

I'm not well-versed in SW lore, but an edgelord friend of mine sometimes calls himself a "grey Jedi". Were my assumptions that it was, as per usual, autistic edginess correct?

Also, is this a good summary:
>Jedi: We embrace the Force. There's a darker side to power, and we practice discipline to avoid it.
>Sith: Darker Side, you say?
>Jedi: No, it's just that without moderation, power can cor-
>Sith: We worship this Dark Side! Give us ALL of the power!
>Grey Jedi: We follow neither the evils of the Dark Side or the conservative rattlings of the Light Side.
>Jedi: Light Side? What are you talking abou-
>Grey Jedi: We are enlightened. We reject you both and embrace your strengths. *tips fedoras collectively*

Dear God. Grey Jedi are radical centrists.

Also, yes, that is a spot on summary of the issue.

I don't get why Jedi would hold monopoly on The Force techniques and training, since it's supposed to be omnipresent in the Universe.

Shouldn't this be more like a karate - any skilled dude can just set up his own training gym and not poison everything with philosophy?

because in the star wars story nothing exists outside the original trilogy.

Yes, this is pretty accurate.

>Grey Jedi are radical centrists
I wasn't even thinking of that, but yeah, I can see that. That edgelord friend proudly calls himself a radical centrist, and calls anyone whose views aren't perfectly centrist far-[left/right]. For example, because I believe capitalism is a better system than communism, he calls me far-right.

Yeah, except the Jedi are sort of overtly rigid assholes with their own share of internal corruption too. Come to think of it, that describes most of history.

>economically liberal = right
anyone who uses the left-right dichotomy needs to be neutered.

Only according to the EU. And the EU is pretty much shit covered in more shit.

I've only seen the original trilogy and the prequels, and played the old Battlefront and Battlegrounds games. From what I remember, the Jedi were bureaucratic and secretive-to-a-fault at worst.

>Expanded Universe

How I've always seen it, Gray Jedi are Jedi that didn't want to adhere to the strict guidelines that the governmental entity of the Jedi Order would've enforced.

Dark Jedi are the ones who just want to be evil assholes, whereas Sith have ambitions.

Jedi Order - Believe that you can only not be evil by getting rid of emotion and detaching yourself from it. What Yoda is, and most of the Council.

Gray Jedi - Believe that you can not be evil, by just not being evil. More attuned to their emotions than the mainline Order, but they don't go around and stab people for their wallets. Jolee Bindo or Qui-Gon Jinn are decent examples of this.

Dark Jedi - Literally what the Jedi Order is constantly fighting against. Jedi abusing their power and using it for personal gain. An example of this is Set Harth from the Darth Bane stories.

The Sith - The opposite of the Jedi Council, in a sense. They believe that using your anger and whatever else to fuel your power is the way to go. They have a strict code, just like the Order, and they have people leave it, just like the order.

Both the Sith and the Jedi can become Gray Jedi. It's just a matter of how people feel about using your own goddamn powers.

>tfw The Last Jedi will finally kill the "emotionless bureaucratic asshole" meme
No more orders. Jedi should remain the classic hero archetype they were always meant to be.

Only if they insist on a Wookie or Hutt jedi.

It'll kill it by killing the Jedi for good.

Wookie Jedi are cool in theory.

In practice, it's snowflake city.

SW has always been pretty clingy towards OT.
>same half-a-dozen planets appear in 90% of stories
>most antagonist factions tend to be galactic empire but with x
>clinging to same couple dozen characters and constantly having them involved in everything
>need to make your antagonist threatening? better give them a death star knockoff

>I want to be either a Mandalorian or a disciple of Revan, they're closest to my real life mentality

This is why I don't run Star Wars for my group, even though I love classic EU.

jesus christ.

why does no one show the echani any love :(

The worst part is the timeline for that game was going to be similar to the Han Solo Trilogy novels. The rebellion was still just an idea, and the Empire has been around long enough that people sort of accept it. Yeah it's bad but there's order and peace. The PCs were gonna be a couriers on their own ship in the Outer Rim. Those concepts don't work at all for that, but the guy refused to change his mind. It never got off the ground, for unrelated reasons. Probably for the better.

man, all you people arguing about jedi and the only thing I've ever gotten to play in a star wars game is Lady Gaga in space

I've never even gotten to play a Star Wars game

mine only lasted for like two sessions because the 'hey I wanna play a sexy red skinned space lesbian with sex pheromones and fuck all the girls' kept on trying to drag the game into erp.

no game is better than bad game

That's because whenever Star Wars tries to deviate from the pattern set by the OT the stories become shit.

*because the BAD CONCEPT player

That's only because the Order allied itself with the Republic. Seeming to be faultless arose from the need to appear that way to the public. If the government was going to back these space wizards, they had to be sure they were worth it, people had to get used to the idea that Jedi judgement was faultless.

I've taken part in a game that had one PC playimg a sith and another playing his twi'lek sex slave. It was actually not that bad.

>And so were Grey Jedi
Nope. Qui Gonn was a Grey Jedi.

>not canon
Except it is, the first ever mention of it was the novelization for Phantom Menace.

I guess it's okay if your group is down with it and it isn't disruptive? Sadly neither of those things was true of this game.

There are a TON of other Force traditions, they just didn't achieve the same prominence. Like the Nightsisters.

I live in the middle of nowhere, RL gaming is impossible so 99% of my rpg experience is in play by post. It makes sexual content in games MUCH more tolerable, because you don't have to see the nerd behind the character.

The Rebels were made to be more grey in Rogue One. There was a whole speech about them being a bunch of murderers etc., by one of the rebels, or something along those lines IIRC.
I thought it was retarded too, doesn't fit Star Wars.

Yep, and Jolee Bindo and many other non Jedi that were called that way. Grey Jedi and Dark Jedi don't necessarily mean they have to be in the Jedi order.

EUfags, get out.

The best decision Disney made was scrapping that baggage.

>not just playing a sith based on Nietzsche

Go hug a space-horse.

Well, I know what I'm doing if I ever play a Star Wars RPG.

Don't disagree, but new canon is not without flaws. Can I say Aftermath?