Western Monks

So, a question that has cropped up frequently on Veeky Forums is "how do I make a western monk?" and the answer is usually a simple "base them on the pankrationists and puglists of Ancient Greece" and while this answer gets the basic martial consideration of the monk, I feel it misses the other, mystical and philosophical elements of monks, because the monk as a class is ultimately rooted in some odd assumptions of Shaolin Buddhism, and ignoring this leaves some oddities present in the class that are hard to explain. To this end, I propose that the ideal philosophical basis of western monks to be cynicism.

Cynicism is a hellenic philosophy that emphasized personal self-sufficiency, ascetic virtue, physical training, and mental exercise. All quite perfect for the monk class. One of their most famous adeherents, Diogenes considered himself a "cosmopolitian" (citizen of the world, likely the first to use this term), which works well with their ability to speak any language as well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy)

>But why would they go adventuring?

For the hell of it. To test themselves. To find new ideas to expand their philosophy.

>But I don't want to encourage "that guy" to act like a total freak at the table like Diogenes!

Then encourage people to base them off Antisthenes, (arguably) the first cynic, and a student of Socrates. He was an ascetic philosopher, and not known for the over the top behavior of Diogenes, who one could argue was only taking the philosophy to an extreme.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhichion
youtube.com/watch?v=JhzhmO-qZWQ
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Just make a martial artist

a greek martial artist, who wrestles his foes, in between wrestling with the purpose of his existence and the nature of the world?

How would you build a Diogenes monk character?

Stealing that.

>makes them cynics
Nah. If anything a stoic makes more sense or an Epicurean hedonist. A fucking cynic, are you kidding me? A cynic is like Diogenes who spent all their time living as irl trolls and fucking with people. I guess it would be possible, but as the basis for the class? No.

>So, a question that has cropped up frequently on Veeky Forums is "how do I make a western monk?"

If you're going to use the Grygax-methode, then western monks would be a swashbuckler/thief hybrid doing black ops for his local org (like by stealing the remains of saints from other orgs) or guarding the higher ranks from being shanked by members of other clans who don't agree with the dude getting the post over a member of their clan.

make him a holy knight who made a oath to his god to never use cutting weapons. build him in such a way that it's focused on making few strong punches instead on many little one, and make him had to kill and pretend his toughness comes from his armor

Viking. Handaxes are monk weapons, and ki can just be blessings from Odin or pure badassery incarnate.

Currently reading an interesting book about mysticism. The western monk is really detached from the martial way, because the christian deity is based in love and it is the union with such God what the western monk seeks. Buddhists consider this embrace an illusion and they seek the state of nonbeing. So the end goal is different, but some things are common like the purification of the soul by mortification of the flesh through fasting and.. flagellation. What if you made a monk who goes into combat to get hurt and does not care if he wins? Maybe getting hurt by sinners would show his love and dedication to his god? Maybe this would help convert sinners like the stories of early christians being devoured by lions?

Think about making the monk seek oneness with his deity through the same path a regular monk seeks perfection/liberation.

Oh boy another
>just play anima
Thread.
Here: just play anima.

You can be as good a monk as you like but you'll never be as badass as this guy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhichion
dude died and still won the fight

Obligatory

The Problem is that western monks did go to battle but weren't retarded enough to deny themselves armour and weapons while doing so (some eastern monks did that too though)
The whole class doesn't really work like that, a fighty western monk is just a Paladin with a mace

Or a cleric

>a fighty western monk is just a Paladin with a mace
Nah I'm sick of this knight fetish. A Western Monk is either Herakles wrestling the Nemean Lion or one of Robin Hood's Merry Men fighting with a quarterstaff.

>let's Not get proper weapons and armour if we want to fight
>why?
>it's not realism, it's just a fetish!
>wat
>listen, common sense is to oil up half naked muscly men and make them wrestle with giant scaly monsters, you dirty fetishist

K

Sadly Diogenes is overhyped, none of this actually happened, most of the crazy stuff he got up to are later additions to a otherwise boring character who was the Greek equivalent of a youtuber broadcasting his semi-fake personality to plebeians.

For instance, the famous Alexander story? invented by Cicero as a philosophical argument; Alexander was known to have major anger issues and would've murdered Diogenes on the spot for insulting his father like he did.

>peasant outlaws using long sticks, agility and skill to beat men-at-arms because they can't afford proper arms and armor
>unrealistic

>implying that they wouldn't just rob unaccompanied travelers and merchants
>implying that 100 years later people wouldn't laud them as heroes because the king was a duck and some bard thought it was a good story
>implying implications of british peasants being good at anything ever

>some bard thought it was a good story
And then some proto-dork thinks "yeah, that's cool, but it needs some dragons, wizards and thinly veiled Christian imagery." If you want even more knights, stick to paladins.

>Not wanting more knights
Are you gay or something?

Dark Souls ruined fantasy.
Also, fuck you leatherman.

>Not going full pl8, m8

Build a guy like Tycho Brahe, natural scientist and proficient duellist. Or a wrestling Kant who won't ever hurt you, but he WILL stop you. How about Gauss as a mathematical mastermind and new-Holmes-movie fighter who computes the entire thing in his head before it happens?

Actually it's funny that you mention Buddhism because during the Hellenistic period the Indo-Greek kingdom combined often western philosophy with eastern Buddhism. You could roll with a fusion of both western and eastern philosophies as your monk during that time period.

Hell, Stoicism was a Hellenistic philosophy as well so you could combine that with Buddhism and maybe even a touch of Zoroastrianism.

This seems kind of odd, certainly for any monk who does a lot of traveling.

I can understand believing God will protect you and if not it's Gods will, but not protecting yourself at all?

Western monks are almost always priests as well, and there's plenty of examples of warrior priests.

Also the Romans has Warrior-Priests called "Salii".

People want monks to punch things, they don't want realistic warrior-monks like the Knights Templar during the Crusades.

/thread

Making a western monk is like making a western ninja

>western monk

So, clerics?

a western ninja is just a spy or secret agent

>western ninja
The Sicarii?

I don't understand the fetishists everyone has for finding a real world equivalent of a fantasy character that runs on walls and transcends human hood.

Rename words like ki and boom, you have a non weaboo monk.

>Pugilist

Sleep in a barrel, masturbate at the table.

>they don't want realistic warrior-monks like the Knights Templar
That's what paladins are

If you're talking actual history, remember how much early Christians got off on martyrdom. Roman authorities were refusing to execute them because it got to be such a hassle. Wandering around unarmed, waiting to be murdered is perfectly in character.

If you mean in-game, then just treat all of a monk's abilities as divine rewards for faith alone, with the martial skills coming as some kind of epileptic fit. The pilgrim-martyr keeps putting himself in outrageous danger, trying to die for god, but god keeps rewarding his devotion by saving his life.

Well, protecting your possessions might be off the table since monks are usually ascetic, but letting somebody kill you might be a sin if your deity has a plan for you. Or maybe it would be wrong to let someone commit a sin if you can prevent it.

>A cynic is like Diogenes who spent all their time living as irl trolls and fucking with people
And what better way to troll people than to PUNCH guys who dedicated their entire lives to training with swords? Punching things that treat armored knights like canned food is the epitome of not giving a fuck.

The ease with which you can take a weeaboo class and turn into non weeaboo.
Rename Ki into:
Jewish - Nephesh/Ruah
Greek - pneuma
Hindu - Prana
Hawaiian - mana
Algonquin - manitou
Iroquoian - Orenda
Siouxan - wakd or mahopa
Shoshone - pokunt
Mohawk, Cayuga, and Oneida - karenna
Tuscarora - urente
Orgone
Norse - Odr
Elan vital
Odic force
Vril

I only include all these native american tribes because wikiwalking around looking up names for ki like things is interesting and many of the terms are used for both internal power source for supernatural powers and outside magical energies that allow spellcasting or calling on spirits. Odr in particular is interesting in that it's the name of a god (probably odin) but also a term for mind/spirit/soul, and is taken from the the root for possession, poetry, madness, and rage in a couple north europe languages (oh, hello new term for barbarians rage).

The rest of the monk abilities are pretty generic in name and can be found in one way or another among various holy warriors.

>Jewish monk
>He charges his fee per punch
>Kicks are twice as expensive, headbutts four times as expensive, more unorthodox attacks are negotiable

or a actual itinerant monk a lot of friars were former crusaders who forsook their wordy goods after the crusades to find god. they never stopped knowing how to fight they just used simple staves and such instead of blades. you could play a monk like that some war vet who seeks atonement through travel and tribulation depending on the kindness of others and up holding justice with his skills.

What is the debate? A western monk traipses about the countryside with his walking stick and peasants pajamas. He spreads the word of his god Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit. When he comes upon brigands assaulting the small folk he staves in the skulls and binds the wounds of the repentant. He trades in venison and lager. His haircut is silly.

>He spreads the word of his god Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit.
Wasn't there this one Egyptian saint who beat up a bunch of bandits until they became good Christians?

extensive physical training and military service was very valued by all athenian citizens and especially philosophers, not just cynics.

for instance plato has Socrates say
>No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.

And for that matter, many knight philospphies in europe centuries later saw it necessar for the knight to be well educated in many fields of study, literary, philosophical and religious.

shirtless paladin

youtube.com/watch?v=JhzhmO-qZWQ

I never thought how hilarious of a hijink this could be

>Jewish monk
>suck baby dicks to make gold on the side

Yep.
Also moorkiller the ultimate template stacker.