Warhammer Fantasy General /wfg/

What does the Horned Rat even like? Sometimes he just seems like a greedier racist Nurgle. I wish he'd get fleshed out and made more distinct. Could work in a few concepts from Malal or the other old lore gods.

Also, cute rat.

Technically even if he did die, he could be resurrected.

The only existing image of him was a drawing by Genzoman which is currently on 1d4chan, though I wouldn't go off of that one, If anything he probably looks more like his daemons.

also, thanks!

woops misread

As far as I know, the Horned Rat is a bit of each of the chaos gods in a way, the disease aspect of Nurgle, the science and warp power aspect of Tzeentch, the warlike ferocity of Khorne, and the excessive pursuit of warpstone and complete narcissism is a little like Slaanesh.

He's pretty much a mixed bag, just embodying chaos as a whole as I see it.

Want mate-mate now!

what the fuck-fuck

so I stopped playing fantasy at end times. Is ninth age what everybody is playing now?

Ninth Age is shit. It's wholly inferior in every way.

Nah. At least not at my gaming club. If we want rank and file fantasy game we go for Kings of War but with our Fantasy armies.

We even started expanding our armies with shit that is in the KoW lists but was never a thing in WHFB.

For example a friend of mine build a dwarven steel bememoth out of a british WW1 tank. Now with 200% more runes and pipes!

Lali-ho?

Isn't the Horned Rat essentially more selfish/self serving than the other gods? Each of them embodies and promotes a concept or emotion like anger, decay and rebirth, intrigue or pleasure. The Horned Rat seems to only care about increasing his own power and will use all of the above as means to that end. It fits with the idea that he was originally an ambitious demon rather than a full fledged god.

Yeah, that is correct. He would readily throw any being under the bus if it meant his ascension.

If you go by the liber chaotica lore basically because the skaven think he is very idependet and self serving he IS independet and self serving.

Warhammer chaos gods (I mean the really broad definition by which Sigmar is also god made our of chaos energy) can only do the shit that their followers BELIEVE they could do.

So by this logic while the Horned Rat is self thinking he could never do something good.

The warhammer theory of Choas energy is way deeper then just DURHUR MUH CHOAS GODS

Some user had a headcanon in which nurgle and tzeentch tried to get the skaven to worship them through spreading pestilence and warpstone respectively. the skaven however were so arrogant they could only worship themselves and so a new chaos entity was born.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg question, but is the HR an emanation of the collective skaven psyche? I thought the HR came first and created the skaven in his image so that he could be worshipped and become a god.

It's a mix of fantasy 8th ed. and AoS at my club.

The Horned Rat is just like every other skaven, really. He does what any skaven would do if given that much power, since they're a bunch of lying, cheating, stealing, backstabbing little cunts who don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves in the end.

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>What does the Horned Rat even like?

You remember that one total bastard ladder-climber middle manager? That guy.

Question for you all, what were the troops like of the earlier eras of the empire? Surely they weren't always
renaissance like right?

The absolute earliest era of the Empire was just after Sigmar unified it in the first place. At that point they were essentially Germanic Vikings.

yeah and I get they were like that during unification period, but kinda hard to invision them instantly transitioning from german barbarians/vikings to the renaissance HRE troops that the models look like.

Look at the Skelletons and Grave Guard. They wear old (like 500-1000yo) imperial armor and stuff (+batwings and skullz etc.)

Well of course they wouldn't have. Just because GW never got around to designing the interim fashion designs doesn't mean everyone threw away their bearskins and put on feathery hats on one precise day.

GW never designed any interim fashions for the Empire, but since they directly lifted Germanic barbarians for the early stage and Germanic HRE for the late stage, it's a fair bet that they would've lifted something Germanic from real life for the interim period.

Given that they see Bretonnia as "backward" in their tactics and style, I would say they used to be all castles and knights in the same manner between barbarian and pike and shot.

I wonder who put on the first feather on his helmet ...and who thought "I need a bigger one!"

wouldn't that be just rhe kinda stuff the people of sylvania used in past.
Was just curious is they ever kinda expanded on how the empire was like during those periods. Guess only thing is to guess it went same progression as hre did irl.

Before Vlad Sylvania was just a normal Empire province (with some cruel counts but still)

Pretty much the only image we have from between Sigmar and Karl Franz's day was Magnus the Pious, only 200 years before dear ol' Karl. That's not much time for fashion to evolve, but as you can see, it's a bit less ostentatious and more brutal. And he seems to have left his huge feathered hat at home. Of course, he may have just personally preferred to dress plainly.

I'm picturing carolingian soldiers like pic related.

>Every Dark Age european-inspired warrior is a viking.
I wish that this meme would end.

Do you actually have a source or something for him being alive?

And Konrad died and stayed dead IIRC

>only 200 years before dear ol' Karl. That's not much time for fashion to evolve

Don't be daft.

I wasn't meming, I know the difference. But in this specific case, since the Empire and the Norsii are supposed to come from a common root (Sigmar drove the Chaos-worshipping tribes off the old world), they pre-Empire tribes aesthetic was, indeed, a mix between barbarians and vikings.

My apologies; I should have appended 'in a stagnant world staggering blindly out of its own Dark Ages.'

Those warriors look like a gritty fantasy take on lombard soldiers.

What makes you think that fashion would be any slower in those cultures? Especially considering that this new found empire would have access to inspiration from all manner of exotic people's way of dress?

Yeah, I can see them being what the Empire soldiers started to look like after Dwarven smithing techniques became widespread.

clan pestilence basically worship nurgle that disguised himself as the horned rat. they just don´t know it and since they are technically still calling their god the horned rat the horned rat still get´s warp power through them so he doesn´t mind that much.
The Horned Rat is just the ultimate personification of all Skavendom. He want´s complete world domination but also enjoys tormenting other Skaven that dared to annoy him

>Newfound
>Magnus the Pious's era
>2350 years in

I know we don't talk about the End Times, but I really need to get this off my chest.

So I was browsing lexicanum yesterday, read about the good ol' Bretonnia stuff and about the Green Knight. Swell guy and all, but why the fuck did GW decide to let Abhorash, THE fucking Abhorash, leader of the Blood Dragons and warrior supreme, go all like 'I bend my knee to thee'?

Surely Gilles was a beast in combat and the best knight whoever lived (Landuin...), but this stuff with Aborash is like unstoppable force meets unmovable object. Both guys were about honor and chivalry and true martial power, but why bending knee and not just joining up?

If they just wanted to throw a few breadcrumbs to appease the Bretonnia players it sure didn't work after years of neglect and getting the finger.

tl;dr: Endtimes is really an abysmal clusterfuck of shitty writing and no sane person should really indulge in it, if they want to keep their sanity.

Sorry for the rant and in before 'thanks for the blog post'

Oh my mistake then. I thought that the norsii and the tribes that would evolved into the empire were of different ethnicities and cultures.

I was just using how the other person simplified them. the dudes in the pic look sorta like invading barbarians from roman era but still pretty different.

Carolingian esc/frankish troops would be a sweet look for them.

They were different in specific ways, some moreso than others, but otherwise pretty darn close. Part of the reason the Norsii hate the Empire so much is that the northernmost bit used to be their turf.

if you guys could have had total freedom with the warhammer fantasy franchise what would have you done with it instead of The End Times and Age of Sigma

Personally I would have taken brought back the Choas Dwarfs and introduced a plot devise that rapidly increased the time in some areas of the Warhammer world but not others as an excuse to drastically change some faction but keep other fractions almost completely unchanged

Konrad stayed dead, because even for a crazy power-hungry vampire he was just too much. I'm sure there wasn't even one person, who wanted him back.

Thanks for your opinion, it has been noted. Yes, Abhorash bending his knee is silly.

For one, keep Nagash in the ground. You have no idea how much I hate that fucker.

>'in a stagnant world staggering blindly out of its own Dark Ages.'
That's a clear signal that you werent talking about Magnus the Pious time. It might have been a harsh time a kin to the crisis of the third century for the Roman Empire but calling it a dark age is giving it unjustice.

Then I apologize for using the wrong term. For future reference, how would you describe the period of time where the Empire was leaderless and riven by corruption and factionalism before ol' Maggy P took charge?

changes to factions would be:

Dark Elves being forest to enslave a new race of creatures that look like a mix between Urukais and Yetis and implement them into the army thanks to being stretched thin after countless Chaos and Beastmen invasions.

The Choas Dwarfs would fin themselves count in the middle of another giant civil war, where on of their most powerful generals breaks free and creates a new race of Chaos Orks that worship him as a god. I was think about him being kinda parody of 40k were Chaos Orks can´t stop 5 seconds without talking about how great he is. Choas Orks would look and act very differently then standard Orks however. There armies would look a bit like the locust from gears of war.

So, the exact same thing that GW tried in 40k and where we haven't even seen all of it yet? You'd be accused of chaos wank, because I think the only other capable power would be the Slann with some magic shenanigans. That's probably why they killed of WHFB. It was just stagnant and they couldn't do much more with it and ran out of ideas.
I mean, they already did the big, fat monster thingy with Storm of Chaos and the big blobs of infantry with the addition of the horde characteristic in 8th edition. They wrote themselves into a corner and had no way to salvage it anymore.

Since recent discussions, expand on earlier time frame in a sorta horus heresy situation that 40k has. Maybe set it during Age of the Three Emperors or sigmar's era. Probably would appeal to people who like more medieval fantasy also, not that I dislike renaissance era stuff.

His idea about inserting ghoul as emperor was great.
Even meathead like Konrad have better intrigues than Mannlet

>Then I apologize for using the wrong term.
No need, I was a bit dickish desu.

>For future reference, how would you describe the period of time where the Empire was leaderless and riven by corruption and factionalism before ol' Maggy P took charge?
I would describe it as a crisis. I brought up the crisis of the third century as its really quite a good RL comparison to the period.
A dark age is generally understood as a prolonged period of time of backwardedness and scant historical records that follows the collapse of an extensive and technologically advanced society. Think societal post-apocalypsm.

I generally would be for anything that fletches out the universe more. anything that adds more lore and unique looks is OK in my book

those troops are what age of sigmar should have been like.

think human ironbreakers, instead of grotesque soul golems

>soul golems

?

user hates the Stormcast too much to realize that they're people wearing armour.

>Is ninth age what everybody is playing now?

No. It's Age of Sigmar

It's mainly 40k and KoW around my area.

Abhorash has always been a bitch who served others, his nature would not let him remain standing in the presence of a legendary king.

>down to 0 fate points for the third time and constantly heavily wounded

Not sure if my heart can take this, I'm living on the edge which is both terrifying and thrilling while everyone else is reckless because they got fate points to spare

No.

Do people actually live in Sylvania as anything more than a bunch of uneducated peasants?
Is there a weird Count here and there who has a militia of living people?
Also how are politics in Sylvania anyways?

Sylvania has a small, poor burgher/merchant class, artisans, and mortal nobles, who tend to be poor. Before Mannlet's return they were ostensibly answerable to the Count of Stirland, though many looked to a remaining vampire, Countess Gabriella, for guidance. Now they bow to Why So Bald I Am or die.

Multiple counts use living soldiers, both undead and mortal counts.

Politics in Sylvania are tyrannical. Think...well, feudal Russia or France, with warpstone-induced insanity. Technically Sylvanians are all freemen, practically they mostly live in serfdom.

It varies from group to group, but I'm basing my list around 8th edition and will probably tailor it depending on what people actually play when I find a group.

As far as I understand, Sylvania has some living burghers and petty nobles underneath them, mostly to make sure their bloodcattle stays in line and to make them things that the undead servants aren't skilled enough to provide. There are next to no priests, however - the Vampires especially don't like Morr for obvious reasons, but even arguably neutral deities like Taal are frowned upon. There's little to no social mobility, but vampires can be ruthless with each other - not quite the level of Dark Elf or Skaven backstabbing, but there's political maneuvering and attacks and forming alliances and feuds.

In many ways Sylvania is a dark mirror of the Empire and its worst flaws, and I imagine its mortal troops would still make use of the old Sylvanian colors. It might be fun to kitbash, especially if you throw in a few Bretonnian bits to emphasize how backwards and twisted they can be.

Nope, KoW took over everything here.

Well, I do like the idea of him as being somewhat like a Chaos Undivided god more than him being only Nurgle and Tzeentch, I guess. Thanks for the good points.

You could probably include the use of warpstone drugs under the Slaanesh-like purview, and Skaven don't seem all that ferocious except when backed into a corner but we gotta work in Khorne somehow.

Advance the plotline 100 years after the Storm of Chaos, during an age of exploration and colonies.

The black hunger, for one. Skaven are cowardly and sneaky but relish violence. They're also all hedonists.

>For future reference, how would you describe the period of time where the Empire was leaderless and riven by corruption and factionalism before ol' Maggy P took charge?
The age of three Emperors ? It isn't really described as a dark age, there is no mention of stagnancy really.

>Khorne: the Chaos God of bloodlust, war, death, blood, and skulls.
>Tzeentch: the Chaos God of change, fate, mutation, hope, and knowledge. >Nurgle: the Chaos God of plague, despair, disease and death.
>Slaanesh: the Chaos God of lust, pleasure, desire, and excess.
>Horned Rat: the Chaos God of Skaven.
Simple.

Sylvania isn't even a province but a part of Stirland.

>Swell guy and all, but why the fuck did GW decide to let Abhorash, THE fucking Abhorash, leader of the Blood Dragons and warrior supreme, go all like 'I bend my knee to thee'?

It happened in a Black Library book written by a cuck and a vampirefag called Josh Reynolds. GW doesn't moderate Black Library really, it's a different branch.

It was a province at one point (it somehow bought or earned the position, it wasn't a province originally), but was made a part of Stirland again later, and while it technically is still, Slyvania is basically a foreign country.

Simple, but with the Horned Rat, not satisfying. It doesn't explain what he does or holds claim over. It'd be like saying the Lady is the Goddess of Bretonnia. Yes, that's technically true, but what are her spheres of influence? What does she care about?

Skaven are cowardly, but the Horned Rat himself is pretty warlike and angry. It's one of the reasons he gets so pissed off and eats his followers all the time.

Yeah, T9A or AoS rules in WFB setting here.

My community is mostly modelers though.

In the Warp, time doesn't exist. Skaven could have created him, so he created the Skaven to make himself more powerful not knowing he was enabling his own genesis.

Then again time doesn't really exist in real life according to complex physics, its a construct humans use to observe the world which has no actual meaning. So actually the WFB Warp is more like our world than the WFB reality.

Introduce more races like Fishmen and let some live in places like Naggarond and Southlands since they're mostly empty an often populatet by the same races.

Expand on the lore on some regions to breathe more life into it like Lumbria or Dark Lands. Expand the rooster for some factions like Chaos Dwarfs, make them more mechanized and robot heavy.

Expand on the other factions cathay, ind and khuresh primarly, who doesent want Naga.

There is so much you can do and im just angry at all this wasted potential.

Reduce Warriors and Beastmen in numbers, reduce Chaos Gods and Be'lakor, emphasize Daemons and Greater Daemons.

Kill Archaon, leave possibility of resurrection for people to headcanon, like Vlad.

Move some Slann to Albion, build on that plot. Also give Tomb Kings a floating city like a mobile Atlantis. Have High and Dark Elves start to reclaim old colony ruins and fight over the Old World. Give Chaos Dwarfs a new Hold further west.

An user a few threads back liked the idea of Chaos Dwarves being present in Karak Zorn. While not my favorite idea, what would you think of Chaos Dwarves conquering/claiming the abandoned hold and making use of that for expansion?

Ancient Blood novel.

Empire is killing Gypsies. Ushoran shows up, "Aww HELL naw!"'s Empire Nazis into giblets, then says "I wuz kang, I will be again, come rebuild Mourkain."

The End.

Too far south to be relevant. Not a bad idea, but it doesn't fix their main problem of irrelevance as an army.

All the factions need at least some presence in the Old World itself, and since Chaos Dwarfs are isolationist they need a Hold there.

I can't exactly see where there'd be an opening for them - the World's Edge Mountains is pretty strongly controlled by the regular Dwarves, and any farther south or west would be pushing it.

The north Holds are mostly unoccupied. Or just not elaborated on.

Give them a Hold set so high on a mountain and surrounded by greenskins the other Dwarfs figured it lost for good. Make them like Skaven, they tunnel and attack at random.

So one of the players in my WFRP group rolled an initiate of Sigmar, but the Tome of Salvation says that initiates stay in the temple all day. What justification would there be for a current initiate to be out adventuring?

Classy - sending a package to a different chapel/temple, a letter, needed to journey somewhere etc.

The one I used was that the initiate in question was to deliver a sealed message to a rural priest, then return with any paperwork he had. By the time the PC got back to his bosses, he had enough experience in the kitty and had comported himself well enough that I had it such that he was promoted and put on another assignment parallel to the party's own.

Temple destroyed.

Plot twist: Entire session takes place in the Temple. It has hidden Skaven-filled catacombs n shiet. Ratmen burn it down by the end.