Flames of War: Edition Wars Edition

Prototype laser weapons system mounted on a T-72 chassis. Development was discontinued because it couldn't do anything a conventional system couldn't do better and cheaper.

Looks great!

...

We all know the Eye-Ties one true weakness.

>[52.6] The Italian Pasta Rule

>One of the biggest mistakes the Italians made during the entire Desert Campaign was to provide their troops with a diet which was composed, in large part, of spaghetti and macaroni. Aside from providing insufficient protein (this wasn’t Buitoni Brand) pasta has one serious drawback in the desert: you need water to cook it! Therefore, each Italian battalion,when it receives its Stores, must receive an additional 1 point of water when stores are distributed. Any battalion-sized unit that does not receive their Pasta Point (one water point) may not voluntarily exceed their CPA that turn. Furthermore, Italian battalions not receiving their Pasta Point that have a Cohesion Level of -10 or worse immediately become Disorganized, as if they had reached -26. As soon as such units get their Pasta Point,they regain the original cohesion level(i.e., the level they had before they disintegrated.)

Phil's rules for the italians will be this
CHEERS

>The Italian Pasta Rule
wait is that real, or is a meme?

It's an alternative rule included in the game as a joke, but naturally everyone likes to take it seriously
CfNA actually has something of an impish sense of humour in the rules, it's needed to keep you sane
With the huge efforts required to track logistics in CfNA, most players would probably be struggling to track the basic things let alone extra rules like that
Italian rations were notoriously poor, Allied soldiers wouldn't even bother to loot the stuff
Informative discussion here:
comandosupremo.com/forums/topic/1868-italian-rations/

It was a rule included in the hex-and-counter wargame Campaign for North Africa.

The jury is still out on wether or not this rule was meant to be taken seriously.

Saw the Fighting First preview on FoW Digital, Super Pumped to do a Big Red One Army this Fall and some Krauts to put em up against.

>tfw you usually play these games alone

Feels bad man

>tfw wife will occasionally try and learn about my love of overpriced toy army men

Makes me feel a little better.

>tfw you played the open fire starter set alone because nobody at the the clubs you visted would join

I live in the middle of nowhere because of work necessity.

I was the guy here 6 months ago who was working on the Vassal program to play online, I've since switched to Tabletop simulator in the last month due to frustration with certain limitations in Vassal and have been learning 3D modeling with Blender from scratch.

So I know everyone's pissed about the Soviets right now. But what if the upcoming Barbarossa books make them competitive again. After all, it's in their best economic interest to want to sell the models they're making.

V4 is broken from the perspective of trying to use last editions splats, but I imagine they can't possibly want to make it so no one will buy and play armies for one of the biggest factions without some long term plan.

>what if

>tfw wife will occasionally try and learn about my love of overpriced toy army men
wife her

Go read Phil on Soviets

I don't mind the Meme Russia portrayal too much as long as they make it balanced, which they apparently have not.

I still think if it starts hurting the company and the game's scene in a big way they'll fix it with the horde of incoming splatbooks.

When was the last time something like this caused a melt down on this General, was there similar stuff going on during V3? I vaguely remember the Hen & Chickens thing. Maybe they do like torturing the Soviets.

I just purchased the v4 rulebook and thinking of getting back into FoW is it worth?

If you like Mid War or don't mind waiting on seeing what the new Late War books look like, and don't mind that the Soviets are gonna be a clusterfuck for awhile.

Personally, I think this is probably the best time for full on newbies and the worst for returning vets.

Wait wait.

Are snipers and observers still in the game?

You get one observer per force, and snipers suck even more now, but yes.

Are Stukas worth taking if I'm doing a DAK list? Really want to try my hand at an infantry company

>*blocks your mid war African path*

What do you do?

*flies behind your lines and bombs your logistics, Nothing Personal Hans*

Roll out 3 of these with some bullshit card that gives them 3+ to do movement orders.

Fug

Snipers are better now mr speed-reader

Might want to remember to read the errata
>Stats are the same
>expert shot is the same
>Sniper's hide is the same
>perfectly camouflaged is the same
>driven off is functionally the same
>Alternate hides is gone, you now have to physically move the sniper teams around, and per errata they lose the perfectly camouflaged rule once they move
Now they're pretty much completely static, instead of being able to slip away. Before errata (when you could move and remain GtG/dug in) I'd say it's a wash, the convenience of the V4 rules making up for the flexibility of V3. But now they're static or dead (they don't even get Scout/Cautious movement when they move!)

"Ignore the Tiger, just kill everything else!!!"

V4...

not in mid which is the actual rules. the conversion is shiiit.

Wait why the FUCK are Matildas not in V4 MW?

because of cheers

Because Battlefront didn't have time to make a shiny plastic kit for it.

They're cutting a lot of stuff that doesn't sell well enough to justify it's spot in the rules.

Don't forget to go through and find your points rebate for all those observer teams you lose

I'm glad v4 is so simplified

Anybody got their grubby nerdpaws on Fighting First, US forces in midwar?

It's pretty much all spoiled here.

>bel-podcast.blogspot.com/2017/08/review-fighting-first-us-forces-in.html?m=1

Imma weather my soviet wwII tanks.
You guys have links for some good tutorials?

I would also like to know

Holy fuck Phil is an asshole. The condescension is incredible

Where did you think CHEERS came from?

It *is* simplified though, at least for Mid-War.

As for Early or Late, the patches are rough and not as seamless as they could be, but overall I'd still say it runs more smoothly than V3 did.

Maybe not V4MW smooth, but not anywhere near as badly as the detractors like to claim it is.

It's meant for messing with IR-guided weapons.

Actually, they just don't want people "stealing" "their" WW2 lunchmoney.

>As for Early or Late, the patches are rough and not as seamless as they could be, but overall I'd still say it runs more smoothly than V3 did.
hahahahahahahahaha

Well I agree with that guy

>OPTION 1
Units with at least 16 teams when shot at have an Infantry Save of 4+ rather than the usual 3+.
>OPTION 2
Units that started the game with at least 16 teams require at least 5 teams (rather than 3 teams) to be In Good Spirits.
>OPTION 3
Units that started the game with at least 16 teams count as two Units Destroyed when calculating Victory Points.
>the H&C change is gone entirely
flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=53&art_id=5739
I'm genuinely confused that BF is responding to feedback.

Option two is the best. Options one and two penalise the Soviets too much for being Soviet and big.

Three* Fuck's sake me.

I actually like that they are updating fast and listening to feedback.
>no change to h&c
Damnit I was warming up to it but I guess I like the old rules.
>large platoons
I feel that option 2 is way way better than the alternatives. Does this mean that the changes will affect all nations and not just slavia?

Also, option one seem to do fuck all really as the save goes back to 3+ when the unit count drops under 16.
This doesn't resolve shit.

they said we get an infantry book, with infantry tanks
they had better make plastic Tillies.

then i will buy 4 boxes worth and paint them ALL in a nice cool Soviet Green....

>the H&C change is gone entirely

mary motherfuck yes!
they either need to drop that rule or do some real serious research and actual playtest before hitting us with that

>16 teams
They still don't get that the main culprit of people whining about big platoons are ARPs, do they?

Why should nurf US infantry again?
Good points of US lists in v3 are mostly nurfed in V4, I don't think further nuking is necessary.

In case you arent aware, there is a blender addon that can import tank models from World Of Tanks.. instant source of tenks (might need poly reduction though) ;)

You mean your arty park got nerfed? Not sure how US infantry got nerfed any more than infantry in general. Pretty sure the Soviets could say the same thing about their infantry.

The issue is morale rules being bad and not one particular nation or platoon.

Thoughts?

What about Men of war?
It might be a source of halftracks, trucks, guns and men WoT lacks.

Arty, TD, tanks, aircrafts.
All infantry might suffer from change, but you looks like ignoring flames of war is a game of combined arms and infantry in the game are dependent on their support.
Having all of the nation's competitive assets nurfed can be said their infantry is nurfed more than others.
Other nations suffer fron V4 changes too, but they have substitutes got better while US does not have anything got bette, all distictive points of US lists are lost or diluted.
Change was needed as V3 US is an autowin, but BF changed it beyond the point.
I agree on current morale is not good, but I do not think US infantry should change for reasons above.

I havent seen anything for men of war specifically but yeah itd be good for filling non-tank units.

There are a lot of model rips from Relics 'Dawn of war' for the 40k tabletop mod. I'm going to assume DoW and Company of heroes will use the same file format so CoH might be more suitable..?

Aircraft rockets will be going to AT 5 after the new update, which will at least make them worth of consideration.

As far as Arty, the US retains time on target, so their tube artillery is especially deadly against infantry. Also one could argue that the 60mm mortar was the arty piece most buffed by the new changes (all rocket launchers are getting nerfed).

Tank destroyers have stormtrooper. May not be as useful as decloaking, but it is still really good for weak armored vehicles with big guns.

For tanks you lose a lot of special rules, but dashing should benefit the Shermans as much as it does T-34s. You can very quickly be on someone's flank. Mistaken target still gives you a 2/3 chance of prioritizing hits on jumbos.

Armored rifles get to keep their transports. AOPs are nigh invincible to shoot down. Any US unit leader can be a spotter in a game where all other nations are restricted to one observer and their CiC. Reluctant lists are more viable with current morale rules.

I don't think it's fair to say everything got nerfed, and the nerfs that did happen were either minor, or to the things that made US auto win in V3 (as you said).

Here are my thoughts for multiple small T-55 platoons:

In a tournament environment, you are basically guaranteeing a 4-3 or worse result with each game since your platoons are so fragile. In a friendly game/firestorm game where points don't matter, I personally feel like its a shitty thing to do. It bloats your numbers beyond what they would ordinarily be and exploits the morale system of "you have to kill everything to cause a check".

Also think about it this way, comrade. You have 30 fucking platoons. Who is going to want to sit for 30 minutes while you micromanage each one of them every turn. Personally I'd rather blow my brains out. I am being a bit salty, because I have dealt with MSUs before, but I'm mainly telling you this because I think you and your opponent will have a better time if you group things up and take less..

Thanks gents you may have just made my life way easier. I'll try and rip some stuff.

Hey fellas can anyone spot some pointers for a halftrack/king tiger force?

What version are you playing? Unlike V2->V3 the V3-V4 radically changes the uses of lots of units.

Well in V4, your mounted assault can be driven back by taking 5 hits of Rifle/MG/SMG fire, but not if you lose 2 halftracks to panzerfaust. That means, contrary to the small arms protection a half track would survive, its best to try and mounted assault against low RoF high AT weapons, instead of high RoF low AT weapons.

Cheers

V3 Lad but im pretty new to the whole game and halftracks x KTs peaked my interest

Well, you want the KTs as cheap as you can get them. Vet KTs in quantity generally cost too much for what they do, so you're going to be looking for trained ones. You're hit easier, but with your armor you don't particularly care. SS-Kampfgruppe Peiper from Ardennes Offensive lets you get some cheaper Fearless Trained KTs, and Fearless Trained infantry to go with them. If you do Confident Veteran infantry and KTs, I wouldn't go for more than two KTs just because of how expensive they are. You can find such forces in Desperate Measures, Bridge By Bridge, and Grey Wolf.

im italian and i dont understand.

this i understand

Very cool. This is 1/72 right?

Seconding this.

It's possible to do, and technically not illegal, but it's also a shitty thing to do, and won't earn you any friends.

Bridge at Remagen has some of the cheapest King Tigers you can find, but that's because they lack Panzer Ace skills.

But it does make them low points enough to field in semi-decent numbers.

Sadly, B@R lacks mechanized troops, and he's looking for Halftracks+KTs.

You can get Gep. Panzergrens in Remagen, up to two platoons, with the KTs.

You can run the army in reverse: instead of an Inf HQ and two PzGren Plts, you get a KT HQ and another KT or two, then one or two PzGren Platoons.

>You can get Gep. Panzergrens in Remagen, up to two platoons, with the KTs.
Ah, I see, only with the RV ones, not the cheap RT ones.

Good.
I would change all BMP recons to BRDMs and add some AAs. Also I would change T-55 units in BTR companies to 3 Spandrels.
I used T-55s in both many smaller units like you and few large unit, I would recommend you to not use them in large group. Use them in maximized unit is not a good idea, enemy will still slaughter your T55s despite how many T55s you have. Numbers do not provide survivality to T55s so its better take them in small numbers and get surplus points from it.
If you need to use them in large numbers for time limit in tournament, use T72Ms rather than t55s.
Basically enemy single shot air supports are not effective against T55s, but you will need some AA because tornado and harriers will be your threat. T55s are going to crowd in narrow area to avoid getting in terrain, tornado and harriers will destroy all of them in single bombing run.
T55s have AA MGs but you will want AA soon.
Warpac can't win without numbers, it is a design of the game. They need numbers of cheap cannon fodders even if they have few units have good gun and armor and expensive, due to their bad skills and being hit on 3+.
If your oppnenet do not want to see many warpac and saying they can't wait untill you finish your move, just go blue on blue. No Brits, though. They have still numbers.

didn't some one post an alternate where instead he tried to pack as many tanks in ass possible via optimum number/point cost/morale?
something like 88 points for 66 tanks or something....

The issue with MSUs in TY is you are gaming the system. I agree that the WarPac tanks shouldn't be forced to use spam, but MSU causes a huge shift in game balance between tournaments and friendly games.

Each T-55 beyond the initial 3 costs as much as the 3 initial tanks combined. That's a tripling of cost. The huge discount you get for taking tiny T-55 units lets you take nearly double the tanks you'd otherwise bring (you'll have to pay a few extra points for formation commanders). You will also have double the units that can all move independantly. You also get double the formations. When you bring multiple formations, you get multiple commanders which can combat attach and help your platoons actually stand a chance to use movement orders.

Or of course you can save the money you'd have otherwise spent on tanks and buy a full compliment of air support or motor rifles.

Using the mission scoring each 3 tank platoon destroyed would count against your score. Even if you managed to win 3 games in a tournament, each game would be 4-3. Losing 2 or more units is inevitable. So no sane tourney player would run MSU's despite the advantages.

Now let's look at the firestorm campaign where WarPac is kicking NATO ass. MSUs are pretty common. There's no penalty for going 4-3. I had to play a game against an East German player with 20 tanks, 2 motor rifle units, Shilkas, 4 Hinds, and 4 frogfoots at 80 points. I had 10 tanks, 3 Leo 2s and 7 Leo 1s, some dinky Fuchs Panzergrenadiers, and Gepards as my main force. I rolled well and hung in for a while but was inevitably just overwhelmed by the red tide, despite killing 9 units.

What I am trying to say in this long rant is that surely there is some compromise between MSUs and large units that could work for both tourney and casual play. Right now there is a huge gap in balance between the two. Or maybe the 100 point system doesn't allow it? Hmm.

PIck for reference. We were playing 80 points and my opponent still had reserves and air

You make a compelling argument user.
What is worse is that an answer to those lists would be even more milan spam.
It is not the future I chose.

Against Milan spam these would melt like cheese on a hot pan.

It's not particularly efficient, but you can attach Shilkas and Carnations to your MSU T-55 formations to give yourself a better chance against infantry. Or you could just spam motor rifles with the points you save using MSU.

But is right, the meta is creeping in a shitty direction.

you forget:

max of 3 tank formation in Volksarmee, hands down.
that min-max only makes sense if he backs that up with a shitton of BMP and BTR
it is ineffective at full armor due to force chart restrictions, unless you play low point games.
but what NATO player is going to play under 80?

excuse me, Popular Game Theory trendsetter,

what the fuck is an MSU?

t.OldGrognard

min size unit

t. somedude

Multiple Small Units. Tactic of spamming a bunch of min strength units. Favorable in situations where the rules or points make it more effective than taking average size or max size units.

>waaaah, my TDs don't teleport anymore
>my arty isn't absurdly effective
>Muh-muh-muh Patton
>America didn't get no fun toys in exchange
M8

And yet in spite of all that, they're still one of the better armies in the game.

Stabilizer are OP against anything non-veteran, they should've make them work like in TY where you can extend your tactical move

Yeah, a Volkspamee player can still bring a ton of T-55s and back it up with BMPs/BTRs and some hefty support since the tanks are like 21 points for 30 tanks.

I saw a lot of firestorm games at 50 points. I am looking to play some games at 50, but I'd probably kindly ask my opponent to not use MSUs at that point level.

It's ultimately Battlefront's fault for making everything spammy and making small T-55 units so chaff tier cheap. I don't necessarily blame the East German players for trying to bring as many T-55s as possible. It's a shitty tank unless you have a bucket of them.

In light of the firestorm campaign, I need to rerun my Leo 1 vs T-55 calcs for the adjusted price of small units. I bet the T-55 wins out.