/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

I've hit burnout point I think, I just don't want to play the same games, over and over again, because the local meta has collapsed in on itself to literally three people. I just can't muster the fucks to fight dark host or Ret gunline any more.

>the game is still better and more fun to play then AoS/40k
I don't think anyone is disputing that. Nor that GW games are more popular regardless.

>Ending Press Gangers because WotC got sued instead of fixing a broken program that was horribly managed

There were issues with the PG program, but to be fair I don't think there's a way for them to maintain the program without dealing with the shit WotC is.

The law basically came down to the fact that volunteer has a very specific definition in legal terms, and you can't use it in regards to a for profit company. Which means that if PGs were working for the company, then they were considered employees, and thus, needed to be paid and provided benefits.

And in general, I'd say Mk3 is cheaper than before. The new unit packs include everything, for example, and the game size both got smaller and moved focus away from the far more expensive infantry kits.

Grymkin are a mess visually but rules wise they're incredibly interesting. Arcana are a far more interesting element to the game than feats are, for example.

PP are hardly saints, but they're making an effort. Many of the complaints with Mk3 have either been fixed or at least mitigated, for example.

>Grymkin are a mess visually
I've found that it's the studio scheme that makes them look like a mess. With a more coherent color scheme they look amazing.

I dunno, the designs just don't mesh.

Granted, their fluff is also 150% retarded, which likely doesn't color my opinion at all.

Got Una'd on tuesday. Hand of Fate is really annoying and so is her threat game in the new Steamroller.

I still don't get what happened after Mk3, I played it at Lock&Load that year, realized it was pretty much just the same as always and kind of passively lost all my hype before just not bothering to play again.

There's seriously something missing from the game that keeps me from shaking my apathy, and I've played since Mk2 launched.

Are the hobby aspects missing? Does the lack of "my dudes" kill my enthusiasm? I'm genuinely curious and I can't seem to find an answer,yet here I am painting a god damn primaris marine for a game that, while improved, is still inferior to the base concept of warmahordes. And I'm loving it like I haven't loved painting in years.

I'm reflecting on this conundrum and cannot seem to find a clear answer

>My primary game isn't WMH, it's AoS
Oh no, it's retarded

>the designs just don't mesh
That's intentional. They're a crazy nightmare fairytale army, they're not exactly supposed to be consistent

Can someone post sofya stats?
Also is sofya the first tranny? Good to see the lgbt well represented but I didnt expect butcher to be the one in drag...

cid.privateerpress.com

I...I kinda like the lore? I mean, it's probably the only thing I actually still give a shit about with the game?
The rest is spot-on though.

Hey, so how do you play Asphyxious3? I'm thinking that I just ball up my dudes and bash them into the enemy for the assassination run.

Sure, but the fact that there is zero cohesion to an army's overall dumb design is awful even if intentional. That just makes it intentionally dumb.

And, let's not mince words here, other games have done the hodge-podge horror thing better overall, and several in-game factions also have better horror-themes, such as Everblight's various flavors of body horror, Skorne's mutilated murder-freaks or Cryx's undead, stitched-together nightmares.

Nah, we're still here. We just don't post that much.

The online community is just really fractured now since there's no central hub. Love or hate the official forums, they served as a good jumping off point and connecting web for all the sub-communities. Now you've got us here, the people spending all their time in CID, the various facebook groups, the reddit crowd, the lormahorders, the battlecollege guys, all your various muse and handcannon and bols forums, and a hundred other places. Most players seem to browse at least a few of them, post on maybe one or two... but it makes it tough to get a good discussion going in any venue.

>Tell me that I'm wrong, at least here you can call me a fuck.
I generally agree, although maybe you're a little harsh on a few points. There are still a few mistakes on GW's road that PP hasn't yet followed - most notably firing or managing out all the people that actually give a damn about developing the game. A few of the oldtimers are gone, but they've still got all their "talented young kids" on the team... the generation that was guys like Alessio and Jervis at GW. We all like to make fun of Sole's stupid hair, and rip on the various Wills, but those guys are actual gamers who are deeply invested in the game being good - even if you don't always agree with them (and I definitely don't). If the company lasts long enough, eventually they'll all be replaced by mindless corporate drones, and we'll find ourselves yearning for these golden days we're in now.

Can't go back to GW though. They fucked the community over too hard to forgive.

I wanted to do a thing, but found out that my country is sold out on Grolars.

Friend of mine plays a build that's touched me in a bad spot a few times.

Satyxis raiders + ua, WE+SJ, Barathrum, Cankerwurm, Nightmare, an arc node, Darragh Wrathe, a siren or two and fill out with some seethers I believe.

Fast jack brick. DEF 13 is the annoying spot to have starcrossed on and unyielding + Wrathe makes Cryx 'jacks rather tanky.

...I wanna fight a Ret gunline, user.

Is it actually possible to beat a Ghost Fleet / Dark Host cryx pairing as Khador?

- No real RFP: The only useful RFP is Sorscha2 and she probably the worst caster in faction.
- No good Magic: The only theme that doesn't get overrun by ghosts is Jaws and Jaws gets overrun by infantry instead. Machine Wraiths are a constant pain, because they fuck up your position and you can't do anything about it.
- Bad Guns: Quality shooting (Rocketeers, Widowmakers) is wasted on pirates and quantity guns (POW 10s, AOEs) don't do anything to banez. Also, lots of stealth and tom_cruise_laughing_witch_coven_edit.jpg
- General "feel-bad-motherland-problems": Tough Shield wall dudes with strong melee and beefy jacks are the things Khador does best and both of those are just trivially dealt with by any bog-standard cryx caster.

Is the only real option actually just to play a janky Assassination list (Sorscha1, Zerkova2, Old Witch) and pray for it to get there?

Why? So you can drop a mammoth on it?

How are the new scenarios? Are the changes that you need infantry/jacks/caster live?

>files.privateerpress.com/op/2017/LnL/Steamroller Rules 2017.pdf

Thanks, but I guess that also means nobody is interested in discussing them anymore?

Hello there and yes.

Not all scenarios are as live as much as others (Pit II and Breakdown always are pure attrition games) but sometimes, you actually see SR2016 one-turn score wins on Spread the Net. A lot of games end on scenario ever since they changed it from 6 to 5.

Themes probably did more for list diversity than the scenarios did, but with both together we are indeed seeing a lot more trooper models than before. Some people would argue that jackspam completely died, while beastspam is limited to specific warlocks and factions, like Legion doing Legion things.

What I found to be scarily relevant, is the change on solos for flags. Solos are so important now and putting effort into killing them is rewarded super good.

>solos are so important now
I wish they would hurry up with the Dawnguard theme. I want my Scyir to be the hero Ios deserves.

>solos important now
Sounds cool.
I missed most CIDs, can I find the most up to date cards on their website or do have to sift through tons of split pdfs?

Split PDF for stuff that hasn't been officiated yet (eg. Northkin, Trenchers, Xmas CID)
Everything else is available on site

cards.privateerpress.com/

Those are the most up to date cards officially.

If you're looking for the CID changes that haven't dropped yet, you have to look through each forum.

Oh neat, so they actually got that going. What is that new number beneath CMD though? There's like a 30 or 40 on the cards now. Is that a new rule?

No, just base size

Base size.

I love these models so much.

I assume the "Christmas" wave is coming out during the shopping season and not precisely on Dec 24th? I want some Sirens soon.

>Good to see the LGBT represented

Get out.

So question about competativnes of various PoM casters. I've been looking through various tournament lists and it is either All-Amon-All-Ramadan or Severius2. Then nothing for a long time and then High Reclaimer and maybe Kreoss3.

What is wrong with rest of the bunch

Huh, never thought about using Wrathe for his damage nerf ability. He looks like such a badass I keep on trying to use him to kill shit

>WE+SJ

?

Wrong Eye & Snapjaw

Play them more.

B3 in wgk until koldun theme release.

Severius2 is a Ghost Fleet hard-counter and Amon is broken.

Besides those, the Protectorate is, similarly to Retribution, a very "middling" faction.
They are "jacks of a lot of things, but experts in barely anything" and incapable of building a mindless gunline and/or throwing 45 though, high armor jack-eating infantry shitters at someone.

I'm more than a little confused that I'm not hip-deep in menites playing weird-mechanic warlocks with infantry screen, slow but cheap-jack attrition/counterstrike , one all-star tier warjack lists.

Skorne does it, and it works. Menites could do it cheaper.

Harkevich double victor and just keep trying to drift those sweet, sweet incendiary AOE's onto denny's head every turn.

Now that's what I call Strategy (tm).

>guy tries to stir up shit
>reply to him
Moron.

Yes, it's possible, but welcome back to Cryx being OP. I guess PP did it to remind me how much I don't miss Mk2.

Isn't it Khador that's OP?

>hard to keep up with these things

The answer is Sorcha2. Any one who says she's the worst caster on the faction is an idiot

Top three factions in no particular order are Khador, Cygnar and Cryx.

>Top three factions in no particular order are Khador, Cygnar and Cryx.
If this year's results are anything to go by, the most OP faction is still the Legion of VanMeterBlight.

Although on the other hand Jason Watt's been on a holy crusade this year to prove to the world that the most OP faction in the game is the Galvanizer (and making a fair run of it), so there's that.

Khador was total ass in mk2, but Sorscha2 was so much better back then.

Losses:
- Warjack Bond: One of her best abilities by far. Put that shit on a colossal and watch the enemy lose a bunch of shit while taking it out.
- Freezing Grip: Expensive Board control, but still capable of taking an entire unit out of the fight for the entire game.
- Elite Cadre Winter Guard: Rerolling CRA's for absolutely free was dope.

Gain:
- Freezer: Her old bond, but on herself
- Quad Iron ROF fix: Her shitty gun got slightly less shitty
- Shatter: An additional damage die on frozen things.

Here are Sorscha2's problems:

1. Iron Flesh changed...
Iron flesh used to be a spell that worked primarily to DEF skew your opponent out of playing the game. Now it's an armor buff, which is more useful on Iron Fangs or Man-O-War and still good on Kayazy, but

2... and so did the Winter Guard
Sorscha2 is a Winter Guard caster, so even though she lost one of her two Winter Guard abilities, not playing Winter Guard with her wastes text. Winter Guard no longer have any use for Iron Flesh, it's pointless to even cast.

3. Freezer is a blank ability
It might as well not be on her card at all. If something stands within 2" of your caster, you either die or your opponent loses a piece. This will never come up ever.

4. Skornergy
Sorscha2 traded the ability to freeze something for extra damage against frozen things. Thanks a lot for that, mark 3. The loss of freezing grip also takes away a major tool she needs.

5. Her feat
The feat is great, but it's generally overkill and everything. It also doesn't help at all if your attacks are to weak to penetrate armor in the first place (Kayazy are trash with her, despite access to Iron Flesh)

In general, Butcher1 does everything Sorscha2 does, but with a better support spell list. Khador has a lot of casters applicable for worst caster atm though. Zerkova2 and Strakhov1 are one-trick ponies and Malakov2 is just an awful Irusk.

It's a pity there will probably never be a nyss caster (they don't do robot magic). I'd love to be able to field an uncorrupted all-Nyss army.

>Khador was total ass in mk2, but Sorscha2 was so much better back then.
You have a short memory. The first couple years of Mk2 were Khador-heaven, since nobody had any idea how to deal with Ironflesh Kayazy consistently. The tide didn't really turn on that until like 2012. And they saw a big upsurge for a while following the release of Butcher3, while the rest of the community tried to figure out how to deal with that.

Your statement true of the last year of Mk2, generally, and they had a definite slump immediately following colossals while they tried to figure out how to play (against cygnar especially) without crutching on IF Kayazy, but they generally hovered somewhere in the middle of the pack if you look at Mk2 overall.

Yeah, it's interesting. There seem to be some good combos in PoM, but you just don't see them. Our one old PoM player switched to CoC a couple years ago (that should get riled up, huh?) and stuck with it, and they seem to be almost absent from most tournaments. Couldn't tell you why.

Lanyssa2 never.
At least Ret has no shortage of waifus to begin with, but my love of tight aesthetics demands a table full of uncorrupted Nyss to throw at the local Legion player.

Mmmm that does sound super dirty

Playing Vlad1 vs Starcrossed is such a hilarious clusterfuck of dice.

I find it funny how before Mk3 dropped the Arkadius upgraded Battle Boar monster had identical stats to the naked Battle Boar statted out for the IK: Unleashed RPG.

Well you can do an entire army of Nyss now EXCEPT the battlegroup. I suppose you could convert up a nyssified ossyan or something. He already likes to cloak it up, and does quite a bit of moping, so it sorta fits.

>The Boarpocalypse
It was kinda funny that, after all the ludicrous hype and doomtrain, that list never actually saw the table in any form. Minion beasts finally get good rules and they're all like "Finally!" (all three of them), and then PP is all, "haha, no, jk - but hey you can take Nyss now! But we nerfed them too..."

>It was kinda funny that, after all the ludicrous hype and doomtrain, that list never actually saw the table in any form. Minion beasts finally get good rules and they're all like "Finally!" (all three of them), and then PP is all, "haha, no, jk - but hey you can take Nyss now! But we nerfed them too..."
Yeah they got nerfed pretty hard going into Mk3 (Though the infantry for pigs got a buff at least)

I can see how Maaayyybe rabid on a mid-weight warbeast was a tiny bit OP, but god it would have been fun.

>Butcher1 does everything Sorscha2 does, but with a better support spell list
Butcher doesn't have rfp

RFP on a blank card might as well not be there at all.

I don't think you understand the problem. Sorcha2 answers Cryx, Butcher does not.

You're free to ignore Sorcha2 all you want but have fun playing against Ghost Fleet. I'm sure that will work out fine for you

once I had a game of spelldraft against Ashlynn who had drafted starcrossed. I had so much fun trying to roll those 6's to hit.

Sorscha2 does not answer ghost fleet. She can't survive a scourge rifle assassination and doesn't provide magical weapons.

didn't that case come down to a judge saying "you're not working for them, you got into this knowing it's a volunteer system. quit reaching."

No.

The problem of the case is that volunteer has a very, very specific definition, and that must include "non-profit".

You can't volunteer for a for profit company, and that's a precedent that no judge wants to set, because companies can abuse the fuck out of their employees using a "volunteer" system.

And you think Butcher does either of those things? Sorcha2 is the answer user, anything you herself doesn't do can be answered by other unit and solo options in Khador

I think the "your dudes" is a big thing as well as, for lack of a better term, the staticness of WMH.

Like 40k has a lot of room with stuff like Tactical Objectives and Stratagems to mix stuff up every game. One game of 40k can play out totally differently even if both players use the same lists twice (which I know from personal experiece) in a row whereas in Warmahordes once you've played your list once it basically plays the same every time, its style of play is even more restricted based on your choice of warcaster. This is also partly the fault of the steamroller format also generally being the same thing over and over.

tl;dr WMH games are predictable and get stale and bland after a while, WH4K is unpredictable and messy but delicious

>want to play WMH
>have wanted to play since MkII
>only played a few games ever
>have 2 player starter set
>no one interested
>local area literally can't stop sucking GW cock
>gave GW benefit of the doubt with 8th
>had fun for awhile
>price and power creep are worse than before
>new releases are hilarious
>single models are $35
>new chaos daemon Prince is $140
>its smaller than the $130 one
>neither of these prices are ok
I have no mouth yet I must scream. I need off this ride.

All of my 40K friends are loving it and saying that it's the best thing ever, people are coming back to the game, it's crazy.

I think the new and shiny is wearing off for me. Like, I haven't had the will to play or model in over a fortnight. The game feels oddly constrictive to me, but my real concerns are the GW hasn't actually changed. Arguably, they've gotten worse in the pricing area. When 8th dropped, everyone was more or less even. Then came the slow drip of codexes to swing the balance and a constant stream of models more expensive than ever before.

People complain about how Warmachine and Hordes doesn't let you make "your dudes", but let's be honest.
What miniature games that aren't GW games allow you to make an army entirely out of "your dudes"? 40k is an anomaly.

GW isn't even about "your dudes" anymore because there is no reason not to take named characters.

Infinity is pretty close.

I imagine a lot of wargames do, at least moreso than Warmachine.

Unless you don't have more than two(?) characters, a problem the local Ork players have been very vocal about.

I've been enjoying adding some personal touch (and trying to keep myself on track with specific paint schemes) by matching casters with a general set of units or jacks and painting them in matching livery. It's not perfect, but it keeps me a bit more organized with colors and lets me come up with team-up stories as I play games and figure out who gets to be in which 'caster club.

I have a Cygnar force that I'm going to expand with the latest Cain.

I've got loose Cryx bits so I'm going to paint them and swag them like they are Cryx for some badass alternate-universe stuff.

>And you think Butcher does either of those things?
No, hence the question ->
>Is it actually possible to beat a Ghost Fleet / Dark Host cryx pairing as Khador?

>anything you herself doesn't do can be answered by other unit and solo options in Khador
Sac pawn theme can keep Sorscha alive, but it has 0 magical weapons. Out of theme has magic options, but can't protect her from ghost shots.

user, it's simply not possible.

Is the Haley2 nerf the only sensible nerf PP have done in mk3?

I just remembered that Una2 and Mad Dogs exist and how unusable they are now.

Not really, most of them are at the same level. Generic units and named characters to compose your army. Not many games have a "build-your-own commander" option

>implying price is the only factor
>implying WMH is any cheaper
>paying $100+ for defective models that PP have no intention to fix

Say what you want about GWs prices but at least they don't buckle under their own weight (Old Witch 2) or have moulding issues that the company just staright out says they won't try to fix, offer replacements and you should just fix yourself.

Not to mention PP have been losing the run of themselves with the prices lately. Just look at Grymkin. $50 for The Dreamer, $35 for The Child. Thats about the same cost as GWs equivalent models.

WMH players really need to get off the "GW is expensive" high horse because PP are no better and in some cases, worse due to inferior materials.

The Dreamer comes with four models, man.

>at least they don't buckle under their own weight (Old Witch 2)
>(Old Witch 2)
Wait what?
She's not even out yet I thought.

>slow drip of codexes
>6 books in 3 months
>10 before the end of the year
>slow

I think people are forgetting 8th has only been out a few months.

10 Winter Guards are a third of your army. 10 imperial Soldiers are not even a playable unit choice.

Pic related.

3 of which are effectively tokens that you'll generally never use if the CID was any indication.

Firstly, that's a lie. A unit of Winter Guard are like 11pts I think? So about a 1/10 of an army since most run around 100pts ish with theme and caster points. When you include unit attachments, solos and weapons attachments, THEN it's about a quarter. Then if we assume it's the Winter Guard theme you need 4 units of them or thereabouts (again with weapon attachments etc). So yeah, high horse.

That's because the scale of the games are different. Also, if price-to-points ratio is that much of an issue there are more cost effective armies to play than Imperial Guard.

That just seems like it's collapsing because it's not standing on both of it's legs

I feel like you're being willfully stupid so that you don't need to say bad things about PP.