/tgesg/ Weekend Elder Scrolls Canon Discussion

Not him, but the Corpus Hermeticum, the basis of Hermeticism, is probably the most famous esoteric text.

sacred-texts.com/chr/herm/index.htm

Are there more books like, "Children of the Sky" from Morrowind concerning Skyrim?

Correction. It's unique for the sake of being unique. People sat down and said "How can we make this not totally generic. How can we salvage this." Which isn't a bad thing.

That's your own fault. What's interesting is how it's adapted.

So how did the War of Betony play out exactly? An user from last thread theorized that Craghold from the Siege of Craghold might be the island from between Daggerfall and Betony. So where did the Battle of the Bluffs take place beforehand and the Battle of Cryngaine Field afterwords?

It all just gets so convoluted, especially the Dunmer lore which is like trying to watch 3 foreign films with no subtitles at once.

So is actual religious esotericism. Just because it's fiction doesn't mean it needs to be dumbed down. And just because most fiction is dumbed down doesn't mean all of it needs to be. It's not even all that confusing once you get used to a few terms and concepts.

Maybe this might help?
youtube.com/watch?v=jODHNf48hCI

Does Highrock have Landsknechts?

I have questions about Five Songs of Wulfharth: what was Dagoth Ur doing? Was it a double-cross or he really betrayed Chimer to protect them from the Heart? What was the Velothi way he was speaking about preserving? Was he afraid that using the Heart will make them atheists or something?

It's very confusing, that it wasn't just the Nerevar's death which was different on every account, but the entire battle, entire war, even.

Adventurers do it for almost free, for bragging rights and dames and glory. There's no traditional mercenaries left, they've been driven to near extinction by Breton wanderlust.

Climb a hill and claim as your's, then tell every Breton girl about it

That's reasonable assumption as the dwarves were pretty high on their own hubris. I think a simpler interpretation would be that Veloth took the chimer to morrowind to seek out a simpler life style, and here you have a bunch of elves that have their own robots. I think any sort of cultural exchange would be heresy in Veloth's eyes.

I spent last night writing a small commentary on some of Crowley's texts, and I still come back here to talk TES.
Just because two things are related in some aspects they don't satisfy the same needs, at least not for me.

>complex for the sake of complexity
More like complex for the sake of fun.
The guys behind the more esoteric parts of the lore aren't trying to be hard to be obscure just because, they're just the kind of people who find this sort of thing fun.

Never forget that these guys are huge fucking nerds. Kirkbride wrote "Histories of Strange Pre-Marriage" as a birthday present to Kuhlmann, because that's the kind of thing they enjoy.

>So how did the War of Betony play out exactly?
Do you want the short version or the long version?

Really, I totally forget the lore. Its so disconnected from actually playing a TES game, vidya or otherwise.

What is Zero Sum?

Knowing that the world is but a dream but not having a big enough ego to still exist.

It's good that they acknowledged Seht went full Dunmer on ESO- it fits his speech to freshly changed nation better. And I don't even know what he is supposed to be in Tribunal - his hand look green-ish, like a very pale Dunmer, his face is pale, but not yellow enough for Chimer, and I'm not sure if it can be explained by sitting in the basement for few hundred years.

His corpse was rotting.
Also yeah, him being clearly dunmer finally shuts that small crowd up and gets them on board.

That's the clockwork city in ESO?
Why are there trees? Unless they're metal trees.

There are. The water is oil too. And that sand? Just dust from Seht running his GPU too hard.

He's just wearing a bathrobe.

Are Vivec and Talos the only two people who have gotten CHIMd?

Might as well make it the long version, for the sake of the thread.

Have the Nords ever tried to get the orcs to help them in their border conflicts with High Rock?

So what Terminator model is Pelinal?

I don't remember Wayrest having that much land.

Never, Nords can't beat Bretons and the Orcs are smart enough to realize this. Dumb brute Nords

According to uesp.net, it's shows Daggerfall regions by the end of the game.
en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Maps

So one thing I never got was how does climate on Nirn work? Skyrim is next to daggerfall yet somehow daggerfall is warmer, Hammerfell is just south yet has a hot arid semitropical climate, Summerset isn't quite tropical but it's right by Valenwood which is. Would Nirn's equator (or equivalent) be passing through valenwood, elsweyr, and black marsh?

Same dude
I just found this imperial-library.info/content/subtropical-cyrodiil
Anybody have anything more conclusive?

My theory is that he accepted the curse because he's the one that felt more guilty about killing Nerevar. Vivec was conflicted about his betrayal hence he's half and half and Almalexia was always a cunt.

I'm okay with TES not being over esoteric, to me the best part of the setting has always been a strange world to explore rather than mystical shit.

These threads are a blast, though.

Honestly, I'd love to see High Rock in full chivalric/welsh glory.

To be fair, I think Kirkbride was a liiiiiiiittle too in love with Vivec at times.

If being a cunt would be the indicator, Vivec would become a Falmer

All of this can be explained very easily, by things like ocean currents, winds, mountains, altitude, biome.. Not to mention the Towers

...

I feel like Illaic Bay area would have a more English/French influence, while northern High Rock you would see some Welsh or Breton like culture. I'd like to avoid the Witchmen/Forsworn shit though, that clearly only belongs to the group in Skyrim.

strawpoll.me/13894125
guaging the opinions of Veeky Forums's various tes boards on where the next game should be set

It makes sense considering Almalexia is fully chimer and Vivec is half-half.

last week i asked you guys about what you would do if tapped by bethesda to design a simple side quest

now, to up the ante this week - for tes vi, bethesda wants to surprise their audience by adding an entirely new faction questline to the game

theyve chosen you to come up with it. what do you do?

I can't come up with shit if you don't give me a province the game takes place in.

hammerfell

This quote sums it up
>The Dunmer were at first afraid of their new faces, but Sotha Sil spoke to them, saying that it was not a curse but a blessing, a sign of their changed natures, and sign of the special favor they might enjoy as New Mer, no longer barbarians trembling before ghosts and spirits, but civilized mer, speaking directly to their immortal friends and patrons, the three faces of the Tribunal
Sotha Sil was the biggest visionary of the tribunal.

I would do it in the lulziest way possible.

First,i would retcon the entire Ra Gada lore.In this new lore their bizarre mythology is a fanfic made to convince them that they weren't raped and kicked out of Yokuda.Yokuda is a subtropical paradise and is part of this kalpa,and the left handed elves are humans.

Then,i would make a questline called "helping the left hand",in which you weaken strategic positions near Hammerfell to allow for a rapid invasion.Your final quest involves slaughtering hundreds of redguard warriors with a pom-pom.

East Empire Trading Company questline.
A tale of intrigue, betrayal, corporate espionage, assassins and pirates.

The questline starts In the port city of Senchal (I chose Elsweyr but the questline works everywhere as long as it has ports), where you are hired to sneak into a rival trading company's warehouse and steal back a crate of House Dagoth Brandy (because shit's worth a fortune) that was stolen by the rival company in the first place. Said company has its headquarters in Morrowind and is owned by House Sadras, the great house that replaced house Hlaalu.
You can enter the warehouse either by convincing the guards you're one of them or through an heavily guarded sewer entrance. Once you're in the quest is good as done.
After this you're officially hired by the East Empire Trading Company.

After a few less important quests, consisting in killing pirates and recovering cargo from a shipwreck you get your next major quest: convince various traders all across the country to associate with the company: some will need to be bribed, others threatened and most of them will ask for favours (aka short quests) but most of them can be convinced through a speech check. After this quest is done you're promoted and paid a lot money.

After a couple of trivial quests (a monster got on board of a ship go kill it, one of our new partners is being a dick go beat him up, some workers stole a bunch of cargo and hid it somewhere in the city go find it) you get your next important quest: there are some documents that prove that your rival company hired pirates to mess up with the EETC and one of their employees is willing to sell it to you, if they showed it to the local governor there would be serious consequences.

Cont...

Fair enough, its all good! Though I'd counter that the Forsworn don't really get too deep into anything really besides "spooky witch tree shit" in Skyrim because Skyrim doesn't go too deep with them.

I wouldn't mind a shifting culture, I just think that the Breton's classic knights and ladies won't have as much punch after Oblivion went full classic fantasy, I think there needs to be something to spice it up. An user last thread gave this killer description of a High Rock as a cross between Twin Peaks and Bretonnia. Thanks for the response, though!

As far as Hammerfell goes...hmmm. I'd want to add in a faction of Ansei/Swordsingers dedicated to finding out if their art can be improved with the techniques of other races, practicing with Orcish blades or Dunmer swords. Not totally wanting other races TO learn how to Swordsing, just wanting to see if they can improve upon it with new tricks. Play them off as mildly heretical and maybe even play it as them trying to rediscover the ways of the Ansei. I just really like that part of Redguard lore and you could tie it into Crowns vs Forebears if you wanted to.

At first everything seems quiet but once you've entered the abandoned house where the employee supposedly awaits you you're ambushed by assassins: someone set you up.
After surviving the ambush you have to find out who's the mole in your company by investigating in the EETC headquarters. This quest is made easier by having high speech but is still completable through other means.
Eventually you discover who the mole is and in exchange for his life he will confess everything to the local governor, who forces your rival company to close up shop in the entire country.

The end and forgive my autism.

It's all good, user! Ain't nothin' that needs forgiving, you put more thought into all of this than I did, so that's a good one.

It would make sense for the Illaic Bay counties to be more chivalric, and knightly if you believe that's the true state of Cyrodiil then it affecting lower High Rock is just natural given. Northern High Rock should be more or less uniquely Breton in culture with Nordic influence as most of the northern High Rock cities were under Nord rule at various times.

I never liked how close to proximity Sutch was from Rihad. Being just across the Brena from it. I would have moved it more down stream to the north-east personally. This is a problem I have with most Colovian cities because they're so crowded together.

That's a fair point, though much of the Bay cities and kingdoms also tend to be fairly mercantile. I think it would be funny to see a bunch of merchant knights, dueling each other for honor and balance sheets.

>The Lake has the same name as the river that its' own river feeds into

Question for the thread. What era would you set your games during to allow the players the most freedom or fun to go around in?

Far enough that the events from previous game wouldn't be more important than a gossip, but close enough that it doesn't feel disconnected.

I was really angry about Skyrim being so far in the future- the whole thing with Thalmor could have been fresher- it would make more sense for Nords to be defiant - the Red Year could have been not so far ago- Dunmer immigration would feel more urgent and the conflict would make more sense if all those Dunmer wouldn't live in there for two hundred years already, we would be able to meet characters from Morrowind and Oblivion who aren't elves or Daedra... I wouldn't want TES VI to have the same issue.

Personally I like games that are set before most of the main games, or in that chunk of time between oblivion and Skyrim. I had a pretty decent game set up in the first era, too. So certain outcomes could be expected but it's also so far removed that it doesn't restrict players choices too much

Under Tharn's rule.

The reign of the Longhouse Emperors seems like it would be a wild time, though I'm not sure if ESO covers that or not.

Good answers all around. I don't think ESO covers the Longhouse's, it's more about the Tharns as it is.

I think for me the best period would probably be between a little bit before Morrowind to a bit after Oblivion, just enough time for crisis without changing the landscape too drastically.

Sorry I missed you my first go around. I get your point, but my only issue with between Oblivion and Skyrim is that a lot of big events happen in that time and I think it's going to be hard to get players not to get caught up in it.

How closely related are the Altmer and Bosmer? They should be close right, A and B are like right next to each other. Really though, I feel pretty sorry for Bosmer everytime there's a Dominion the first people enslaved are always Bosmer. Clearly the Altmer think they're better, but there's some relation if they don't outright genocide the merlets. So there is a common ancestor? Where do things diverge?

Not sure how closely related they are, but as far as genocide goes. The Altmer are more interested in using the Bosmer as allies/underlings than taking time and effort to genocide Mer before Men.

From the lore, it seems than Valenwood is more than capable of defending its borders - i.e., any army entering the Bosmeri kingdom would likely never be seen again. They are also the most populous of all mer. However, the Wood Elves are one of the least accomplished empire building cultures on Nirn. Compare this with the Altmeri, who excel at colonization despite their relative naval and militaristic paucity (Redguard and Nordic navies are superior, while Argonian and Imperial armies are more accomplished). The two benefit from their alliance.

Alt and Bosmer share a history, and benefit from each other militarily. To me their relationship is friendlier than most others in TES. That said, either party attempts to exploit the other as much as possible (though probably not to Dwemer-Fal

Both stem from Aldmeri. Bomser are likely "older" than true Altmer, insofar as Bosmer split from the Aldmeri before the ultimate dissolution of the Aldmer (into Altmer, Bosmer, Orsimer, and Dunmer). Bosmer are more closely related to Altmer than Orsimer perhaps, but less directly so than Dunmer. The Altmer view of Bosmer is somewhere between backwards hayseed and talented but childish cousin. The Bosmer may recognize this goodwill - and reciprocate to some degree, but still enjoy the attempt at getting over on or otherwise humbling the Altmer.

Fuck, my shit got all retarded...

>(though probably not to Dwemer-Falmer levels of depravity)

Have we ever gotten an exact bead on how strong the Altmer actually are? I also assume a big part of Valenwood's defense is just the landscape itself.

altmer have magic so there are few defenses you can make against a well trained army of them that they cant just burn down or teleport themselves around

>Valenwood is more than capable of defending its borders
They tend to lose wars. See the Five Years War and the War of the Blue Divide.
Furthermore, the armies of Valenwood have historically been mercenary and/or tribal, they don't have a culture for centralised, proper standing armies like the Altmer have. The Wild Hunt is only a viable defence strategy in the same way suicide bomber are.

>Compare this with the Altmeri, who excel at colonization despite their relative naval and militaristic paucity
The Altmeri Navy is one of the most renowned and powerful in Tamriel.

>Argonian ... armies are more accomplished
Not really. Their reaction to the Oblivion Crisis and their performance in the Accession War was admirable, but again they've traditionally been defeated by both Dunmeri and especially Imperial armies.

>exact bead on how strong
No. We don't really have an exact number or account for anything.

>not liking witches/druids

What's wrong with you?

Hey man, people got different tastes. Personally I'd like a bit of druidism in High Rock, but not to the point where it looks like the Reach.

I like witches, and druids but Reachmen practice something more feral, wild shamanism. High Rock has witch covens but are fundamentally different from those in the Reach and of the Reachmen.

Also whats with Altmer names, they're not like most other races which are vaguely related to the names from real world kingdoms. They're very... Tolkein like?

But user, the Reach is split into two parts, one is in Skyrim and one is in High Rock! High Rock has more Reachmen, too!

I think there's a compromise here, TES is always at its best when you have regions that are visibly different culturally right off the bat. Hence why people got so upset at Cyrodiil being so homogeneous. We can have Reachmen enclaves in High Rock, we can have Breton takes on covens and druids, and we can have Iliac Bay with lords, ladies, and merchants.

We all win!

>North High Rock
>Western Reach
They will never be in a non-MMO

I'm never sure if I want to see parts of Tamriel put into a game that we haven't seen before because I don't trust the games to make them as interesting as they sound.

I want to see a Romeo and Juliet quest between two rival tribes or clans.

Bonus if one clan is an orc or Nordic one for easy identification.

I want to be a Breton knight that courts ladies, kills Orcs, chases Reachmen away, and outsmarts dumb Nords

See! Now you're thinking like Bethesda!

I was looking through the rulebook and talking to my group about playing it when we noticed that there was no rules for conjuration, which one of my players wanted to focus in. It says that they'll be released when Inhabitants of Tamriel is, but that doesn't help me much now. Is there anything now for trying to make Conjuration viable or do I need to tell the player to change his idea?

Need more info.
Conjuration is art of summoning spirits from dreamsleeve or oblivion for various uses. What do you aim for? To question them? To infuse them into objects?
You may simply make your own rules for summoning as in roll for reach out for ether beeing, roll to yank it out of there and through liminal barrier (maybe another ritual for that), and last roll to control it.
Depends on what and how you want to spin this whole conjuring business.

Well, I, and the player, were thinking of it more as summoning things (atronachs, daedra, skeletons, spirit weapons, etc.). but that's mainly because I couldn't think of any other uses while I was going over magic schools.

Not the user you're responding to, but I'm wondering lorewise how common conjuration of atronachs and daedra are? I always remember that quest from Oblivion about the man who's family worshiped a single atronach.

Videogame mechanics of conjuration where you just pull creatures outta thin air seems plain boring. Treat dead and daedric spirits more like NPCs that have their own character and agenda. Think of warlocks forging pact with stronger entities or withes making conections.
You can stuff a scamp into branch to make a makeshift +2 weapon or posess local official to grand you amnesty.

I get where you're coming from and think it's cool too, but I don't know if the player would go for it since he was talking about summoning ghosts and daedra to fight by his side. I'll try to talk to him about the other ways conjuration could be used, but he was even talking about bashing together some rules and I'm not exactly an expert at that kind of thing.

Remember Sotha Sil in 2920 part 4.
You can strongarm some, politely ask others and try to strike a deal with rest.
Make it like showbiz if your feel like it.

At least he should go throught a ritual prior to first combat summon. Make him sacrifice a deer, fire incense and force it into submision. If daedric.
If you summon dead you should do some diggin and bonemeal grinding, check in game books like Corpse preparation.
As far as rules are concerned, all you need is some hypotetic dificulty roll chart.
Asking Dagon for Razor should be wastly more dificult than commanding scamp to remotely trigger a trap.

Neat.

Druids always suck. They live like foresthobos, wear dirty robes, hangs around stone circles and talks about the weather with animals.

Is every city in High Rock a port? Even seemingly landlocked Evermore has a river port.

Altmer want to transform other mer into altmer

It makes sense for cities to form by waterways but no, Shornhelm is in the middle of the Kurallians.

Huh, never heard of that one! Is there a book or extra lore tidbit I missed on that one?

Is any providence known for its cavalry?

I believe the Imperial Legion had heavy cavalry, and Dunmer probably have guar cavalry. The Khajiit have battlecats though they're not really "cavalry" but smaller khajiit riding larger khajiit. I don't believe the rest of the provinces have any sort of cavalry mentioned but I'm sure they have some form of riders.