/ccg/ Custom Card General /cct/

Oh, now that's a very cool card. Not only are both effects very in line with Red, but it forces an opponent into a tricky situation where they have to weigh what you had in hand versus what you might draw. And of course, even if they do guess that you lined up 6+ mana worth of spells to cast should they not let you draw, the draw will still be quite worthwhile

>GR bards that accumulate verse counters on enchantments for scalable effects

>RB entropy-cult with suspend/vanishing and time counter support

>BU explorer guild with Level Up mechanic allowing for instant speed levels

>UW illusion-ghost soldiers with cumulative upkeep and rewards for aging

>WG nomads that fortify lands temporarily, and the fortifications grow with charge counters that accumulate as they 'move'

Is it worth building on?

Seems like some interesting ideas. The only thing I might say is that Suspend isn't quite as good of a fit for Red in regards of having to wait for effects, but messing around with Vanishing seems interesting there.

It certainly feels like the entire set is going to have a lot of different counters being spread around though. Verse counters, charge counters, time counters, age counters, level counters. The fact that all the mechanics tie into this means that you could do some pretty interesting things that work across factions by simply interacting with counters as a whole.

Suspend can work for red - look at Greater Gargadon, Rift Bolt, and Pardic Dragon for examples. And yeah, I was planning on having counters in general be a central theme of the set, with +1/+1 and -1/-1 in some of the effects.

This is a blue-black effect. Black doesn't get to mess with opponent's spells, and exiling them is more powerful than countering them anyway. This is especially an issue when the alternative option is instant-speed discard, which is rare and powerful.

Make it blue-black or ditch the concept entirely. I don't know how this should be costed, because if it reads
>Counter target spell unless its controller discards two cards.

And costs 1UB, it's basically worse than Cancel (and that's a really low bar), but if it costs UB it's basically a Counterspell because no one wants to discard two cards for cheap spells and at late game they may not even have two cards to discard.

Pic related is how I would do it. Playable in UB control, but not a Counterspell. Could add life loss as an additional payment ("and pays 2 life").

I'm not saying Red doesn't get suspend or that it can't work, just that in the context of a set where not every color is getting Suspend, it doesn't fit Red as well because it's inherently a mechanic that rewards long-term thinking and patience.

In addition to that, the way you described it as an Entropy Cult makes Vanishing sound like it's much more fitting. A Cult that thinks everything is going to slowly fade also doesn't seem like the sort to patiently wait several turns for a slightly cheaper fireball.

In addition, Vanishing occurs on the board, while Suspend occurs in exile. Vanishing works better with the other mechanics of the other factions, since that means a card that could put another counter of the same type on a permanent would work for all of them, whereas a card to interact with the Suspended time counters would specifically need to be built to do so.

Also, I would say that you may want to stick with only these counters, or at least limit yourself to only one of the two of +1/+1 or -1/-1 counters. Having 5 different kinds being thrown around is already a lot, and trying to include the two that conflict with eachother on top of that feels like a bit much. Furthermore, I would say that since all of the current counters are more beneficial to have more of, then the best thing to do would either include +1/+1 counters and have counters in the set be almost universally beneficial, where putting them on something is good and removing them is bad, or make it so the existing counters you have offer bonuses to power and toughness on some cards as needed, with -1/-1 counters serving as your bad type of counter. Either way, I would caution against going overboard. Focus on the keywords first, and see what you have room for.

> I would say that browbeat-style cards are also the best place to do some color-pie bending, as long as the penalty is in color. Makes it ultimately up to the opponent if they want to give you an efficient spell in line with what you're doing already, or take an out-of-color effect that might sting less.

Bump

Last two lines should be just one line. Big downside, but I think it would still be worth playing, hoping you can kill the opponent before your next turn begins. As for cost, U and R are both unnecessary. Though if it's for a tri-color set, I can understand.

Part of an Illithid-centered horror tribal thing using the FR setting. I suppose you could think of its abilities are browbeats.

Part of a cycle. Every race has a 2 CMC (split mana) 2/2 with two abilities, one of each color.

Apart from the small mana cost of the abilities, the secondary cost is generally significant, but play to the strengths of the faction. Illithids have a lot of card draw and deny draws to the enemy. Drow are really good at getting stuff to sacrifice and making those sacrifices very efficient. Gnolls have several abilities which allow for and reward multiple land plays on a turn.

An exception to this is the orcs, because their tribal identity includes "someone else pays for this" and/or "you get what you pay for". So they pay for the regeneration with an extended sick leave or they pay for the +1 to power with a -1 to toughness.

Tweaked versions of faction rares and uncommons.

As well as some other odds and ends.

Something I would say is that some of these abilities feel a bit pushed n order to try to make them fit in at one mana. However, I would say the only one where it's major is the Priestess of Lolth, as the effects there to regenerate something or give it hexproof are fairly cheap effects whenever they show up elsewhere. Having it simply tap rather than needing to sacrifice a creature would be better in that regard. The sacrifice just makes it barely worth it, especially compared to the rest of the cycle. It also feels weirdly out of place being the only enemy color pair in a cycle of allied color pairs.

This isnt necessarily related, though it could be i suppose. Would using harpies as a sapient bird person race be too out of line with their portrayal so far in magic, especially Theros? From a flavor perspective, fantasy races that dont use their race as their creature type bugs me, including stuff like aven and leonin. A race of bird people would help fill a creature grid (though i dont technically need it), but autism makes me not like aven/birds. I know harpies in a lot of non western fantasy stuff are shown as pretty much just bird people but in magic theyre pretty much just a kind of monster. Do you think its too much a reach to use them as an actual race...? I thought about sirens but the flavor isnt right since there's no association with the sea, whereas harpies are a little more flavor neutral (and also I feel it registers as "bird person" with no other information better than siren does but maybe thats just me).

I think it would be fine to do so. Aven are more specifically birds because they also have birdlike heads and similar things. I personally don't mind that being the case for some of the bestial races in that regard.

That said, as with the Sirens from Theros and now Ixalan, there's no real issue with doing different things with them. The main key I would say is that two creatures of the same type across planes should have enough in common that they're very clearly the same tribe.

In that regard for Harpies, I would say that their depiction thus far has been as a very savage Black tribe, thus branching them out into Blue might be a bit odd, but it's nothing that couldn't be sorted out flavorwise. If anything, I'd say they'd be a better fit as Red/Black for something that roosts in mountains and is very selfish and wild, although that would be if you wanted it as a minor tribe, since Red doesn't get much flying.

It's fine as long as you can justify it. Like Naga vs. Snake. It's a matter of preference mostly. Though do take into account flavor. Harpies, for example, are certainly Bird people, but likely wouldn't fit into the Soldier mold most Aven inhabit.

>Sirens
On this note, I want to point out how Sirens can be interpreted differently, either as Bird people, or as mermaids. Indeed, numerous languages have a word for mermaid that is derived from "siren."

Be mindful that your interpretation of a type fits the setting. For example, Amonkhet Zombies =/= Theros Zombies =/= Innistrad Zombies.

This was my second problem. I actually kind of have a flavor reason for WU (association with winds and infrastructure, specifically as couriers), but that doesnt really "feel" like a magic harpie as established by the fact all previous harpies had been black and associated savage cruelty. What I was thinking of goinflg for was that they like money/artifacts/shiny things but it still seems weird in light of previous harpies. There would be black ones but theyd be in the minority, flavorfully vulture like.

Yeah, although I think magic has gone firmly for the bird Sirens. No reason you couldn't do the other type, or make them Siren Merfolk or something to help in that regard, though it would be odd to have a drastic difference.

And yeah, it depends a lot on the setting, but the key is that they share those core traits. Amonkhet, Theros, and Innistrad zombies vary quite a bit in how they crop up, but as a whole they're all still walking corpses.

Yeah, it's an issue if you want them in Blue/White, just due to how they've already been established. I'd say you'd have an easier time filling that role with Sirens honestly, as not only are they less monstrous, but they're also within one of those colors. Plus, even if they are about money and shiny things, that still makes them feel more UB rather than WU.

The money thing would just be to explain why theyd take on roles as a courier (which I think is justifiably white). Like I said, I think the problem with sirens is they are just heavily associated with the ocean, and the setting is very nearly the polar opposite (all inland, theres technically at least one coast in the big picture but its just mostly a geographical thing). Also like I said Im not totally cool with, while magic sirens have all been bird people, siren not totally evoking "bird person" the way harpy does.

I dont need a bird people race tehnically speaking, I could just use regular birds to fill out flyer spots, just for some reason the gut feeling I have is bird people would feel right here. Harpy as a sapient race sounded like a cool thing but they havent previously been shown that way and tehnically the colors theyve been in previously doesnt support WU's need for small flyers.

Well, it's up to you. In terms of a custom set, I'm not sure as many people would mind, since Harpies have been rather underutilized as a whole. If you feel like you can sell the flavor and make it work, I'd say go for it.

I mean, theyre not as iconic as zombies, but I'm afraid of it feeling too weird. I dont want it to be like if they made a plane where there was a tribe of RG zombies. Usually iconic tribes are in at least one color always. Harpies have a lot more breathing space as there are very few but eh.

Yeah. Personally I don't see much issue with including Sirens even in a landlocked plane. I mean, Lorwyn had merfolk without legs in a world without oceans at all.

I mean, what does it mean to be a siren if there is no ocean or sailors or anything? A merfolk to most people is just a fish person. Thats kinda what I meant about harpies being more flavorfully neutral.

I mean, the core idea of a siren is that they single in a beautiful way that lures people into danger. That could work just as well on a river, a lake, a canyon, cliffs, a bog, a desert, basically anywhere someone could potentially get into trouble by listening.

And even for Ixalan that doesn't seem to be firmly the case, since from what I've heard the Sirens there seem to prefer to steer people away sometimes.

The core of a Siren is singing, either with wings or fins, and involving their surroundings in some way. What if the reason Sirens are White is that they build forts and traps around their nests and then sing to lure outsiders into them? There's more ways to harm someone with lovely singing than just them crashing a boat.

Even in Ixalan though they seem to be asssociate with the ocean which is how I figure they split the difference. Also they seem to be generally pirates which are not really nice guys, I'm sure luring people into danger is still part of their schtick.

I dunno. I guess your thing isnt tecnically harder to buy then "harpies are white because integrating into society allowed them to get money easily and perform roles flying things make easier" but it feels like a bit more of a stretch to me. I'll think about it but the main difference beteen the two to me is I think its very hard to delineate the general concept of a siren from "ocean monsters that lure people into danger" versus harpies which i dont think most people think of as anything other than bird monsters with no other attachments, though admittedly I think most people would picture them as evil (but same with sirens).

Yeah, I'm mainly pointing out that there is a variety of ways to handle them. I think you'd be safer using Sirens from a color perspective, but I can definitely see Harpies being easier from an overall flavor one, since they have less baggage.

I think you can go with whichever you prefer and be fine, although I would say that integrating into White for monetary reasons doesn't quite feel like enough. Perhaps if they were already heavily communal in some regard, but I'm not sure. Doing something for pay isn't a motivation very strictly tied to any one color.

The color thing is the real bitch for me. Sirens already being blue makes it less a stretch to put them in UW.

The feel Im kind of going for is kinda Orzhov/alms collector/Gwafa Hazid. They like worldy goods and will be part of a system to get them. Its a pretty thin line. But white does have a penchant for that sort of feel I think (also mechanically white likes trinkets but i dont know if that mechanical facet will be a thing).

Well, for Orzhov, they're half-Black, so the Greed makes sense there. As for Gwafa, he's a character from Bant, which is a world without Black mana. Even if he's a really greedy dude, that wouldn't necessarily reflect in his color identity.

I think it's less about White liking worldly goods, and more about seeing them as necessary for civilization. White's cards that care about money are usually more about taxes, legal authority, and then putting those taxes towards the benefit of all.

Oh, I dont knownifnits necessarily a greed thing. Maybe more like a fascination? I haven't put a whole lot of thought into exactly what their culture or whatever is since that will depend on what exactly they are. Sirens would probably be different for example.

Yeah. I'm not saying it's not White for them to like money, just that it might not be enough to justify it alone.

Either way, it sounds like you're putting thought into this, so I'd say to brainstorm a bit and come up with something you like first and foremost.

I think i just give up on the harpy thig to be honest. The dealbreaker to me is that too many existing ones would be black. For example, a cool thing is when you make a new or put a spotlight on an old underused tribe is to make a lord. But, if i were to make a WU harpie lord which would be the colors theyre in in my set, you couldnt really play them with the black harpies of which i think all of them are. Thats just kinda lame. You cant really do 3 color. I guess it could be one color and you could choose to use the old black harpies or the new white ones or something. But theres still nothing previous. That just feels wrong to me. Its jot likewerewolves where there just
like 3 anyway, and its also not like if harpies were to be a continued thing that theyd always been in uw (i think werewolves will always be part green when they show up from now on).

>However, I would say the only one where it's major is the Priestess of Lolth, as the effects there to regenerate something or give it hexproof are fairly cheap effects whenever they show up elsewhere. Having it simply tap rather than needing to sacrifice a creature would be better in that regard. The sacrifice just makes it barely worth it, especially compared to the rest of the cycle.

I'd rather improve the effects than remove the sacrifice: sacrifice is a huge part of the drow's tribal identity. Here's an improvement, hopefully.

>It also feels weirdly out of place being the only enemy color pair in a cycle of allied color pairs.

In theory, at some point it will be a 10-card cycle, with every color pair represented. I just need to figure out which races I'd like to fit the other colors (dwarves are finished as the red and white race as well)

I can see that. I do think those effects are more improved. The constant recursion is nice, though since it requires fodder it isn't quite so easy to abuse. Regenerate and hexproof stack a bit weirdly, though it also basically guarantees the target will survive nearly anything.

So, I'm trying to make some cards with Lorwyn elves. Anyone know a good place I can find pictures of horned elves?

To be frank, unless youre set building, I would just use official art if its for a plane with a very specific aesthetic. I have a preference for using noncreatures for creatures when doing that but in general I think the aesthetic is importnant for just random fun cards and nothing matches better than whats already official. Im sure that is a controversial opinion.

Tinkered around with MSE for the first time in a while, made a handful of potential commanders. Also, a gun, which is what I actually set out to make.

The flintlock is very nearly Exert, in that you can use it for a massive bonus but it needs to be reloaded as a full action. It does break if you hand it to something with vigilance, but that feels flavorful enough to work. Might be too big of a buff, I haven't done equipment in forever.

Sulemin is a redo of a very, very old card of mine based around a pirate theme, using Mairsil's exile-and-counter style of trigger to be more useful as a commander. Gaining another potential stack of lifegain with each re-cast or flicker is the reason his ability is one-and-one and not Kambal's two-and-two.

Wynne was probably where I should have stopped. I tried to think of anything even remotely interesting that could, in theory, be used next to Beckett Brass. I wound up going with a soulbond theme (flavorful if you soulbond her to your commander), with the idea being that there's no one else you'd rather have backing you in a barfight. Probably far exceeds what Soulbond should do, even as a commander, but I feel it's a worthy thought experiment nonetheless. Also considered variants with explore, goad, topdeck exile shenanigans, merging Kaho with Jhoira, and other bad ideas.

Damsel Fausori is built to be a vaguely interesting political card in colors that rarely have access to politics. You naturally become a very unappealing target while she's out, she's cheap enough to recast a decent number of times, and I know plenty of people who read "give up card advantage" and consider it tantamount to losing the game. Seems like it would at least make Spikes salty.

Orchid's another thought experiment. I don't really know how to describe her outside of "a creature that can exert for situational spot removal, is probably an okay voltron commander, and is very painful to block."

Oh yeah, forgot to mention the second version of the Flintlock which might make it a little more balanced.

Trusty Flintlock [2]
Artifact - Equipment
Equip [2]
Trusty Flintlock does not untap during your next untap step
As long as Trusty Flintlock is equipped to a creature, it has "[T]: Trusty Flintlock deals (2 or 3) damage to target creature" and "Tap equipped creature: Untap Trusty Flintlock".

Definitely prefer this purely flavorwise. It feels a little cheap for colorless repeatable, abeit slowly so, removal.
Damsel Fausori doesnt feel black to me. Is there a reason its black?

Im not sure why Orchid has bushido. i mean I know flavorwise but I got the imoression this was mostly a mechanical premise. Im not a big fan of keyword mishmash unles it does interesting things like time spiral. If you want samurai id take away afflict and have some other punishment for blocking.

I love soulbond and Wynne is is cool soulbond dude so not much else to say. Doesnt break much new ground and I think soulbond has room to grow but fair.

3 mana feel s cheap for pick and hoose exile based discard with additional upside but maybe Im wrong. Tidehollow sculler is close I guess but is closer to an o ring effect.

I'm fucking plastered yet posting on ccg. Where did it all go wrong.

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Also I realized I wanna switch the wagers on these.

I really like the flavor text on a lot of these cards, expecially Dormu

Thanks! My end goal once I'm done with this set is to print it off and draft it with my playgroup, so I'm glad to hear that the flavor text doesn't come across as cheesy XD .

> Flavour text
I don't know, maybe something about how everything come with a price, but every price is negotiable?

Not a fan of the card though, I'm afraid it will either do too little or allow a billion infinite combo. It's a card that could only exist to be abused.

Tapping Equipment? Don't think I like this idea. I mean, this is the point where you have to ask yourself if it's really even an Equipment anymore. As for the idea of firearms, I personally prefer using counters to represent ammunition, then removing one to ping.

Looks like I'd be pretty broken. Like with necropotence for example.

Necropotence is broken. Doesn't mean this card is.

I'm not saying this card isn't broken, just that I can't think of any activated ability that costs life that would become abusable if it costed 1 life less.

Wall of blood goes +inf/+inf.
There is also Yawgmoth's bargain, of course.
But yeah, you are right, it's actually less broken than I thought.

Wall of Blood has Defender, so any combo involving this + Wall of Blood would also need a third piece that removes Defender before it gets game-breaking. I mean it's still an Inf/Inf Defender, but that's basically just the equivalent of Deathtouch + Indestructible on a Defender. Any evasion gets past it (and removal, of course).

Yawgmoth's bargain is B& anyway...

Well at the very least we know the card has potential to be game-breaking depending on its environment, so it should cost more than CMC 2. Make it {2}{W/B}{W/B}, give it some nice small ETB to compensate and call it a day.

So, autism called and I felt inspired to make this thing. I'm sure the balance is all over the place, but the fun thing is that you can mix Masters/Servant however you want.
F/SN spoilers

It would take fucking forever to post them individually.

The masters.

Use the frame with four spaces so these things can have three loyalty abilities and be actual planeswalkers instead of glorified enchantments.

These are all boring and weak. U and WB seem to be the best ones. Consider making Servant a planeswalker type.

> And yes, I'm perfectly aware this is a Red card with a Black effect. The original Browbeat cards had the same pattern of being out of color.
Way too stray from colorpie. "Discard two cards" or even "Discard two cards at random" is also not red but would be less weird. But choose what cards the other player discards is way too black-specific and doesn't fit the premises of red. (while could fit a color like blue).

pic related, also see > I think better wording would be
>Exile target spell unless its controller discards two cards.
> Though I'd just change it to counter.

Interesting, very bluffy card.

The second version still requires a creature to function and explores design space not currently used by many cards, if any. The first version gives the bonus only to a creature, making it less like a combat trick. While ammunition counters work, I intentionally avoided them with this design because you still have to reload after every shot and it's not sensible to say "but doubling season though". Bullets don't grow on trees.

Heracles is probably overpowered, considering it deals commander damage.

>Way too stray from colorpie.
Yeah, that's what Browbeat-style cards do. I said that. Why did you even bring this up?

Some new stuff as well as some revisions.

Bump

Because while its true that Browbeat-style cards stray further form the colorpie, it doesn't break it completely. The effect you/he chose doesn't even make sense at red (choosing cards for your opponent to discard).

> Jaljunan Naga
I think it would be more interesting if the second ability was taunt ("all creates able to block this create do so"). Synergize greatly with deathtouch, and seems to fit the flavor you are going for.

> Purify the Unnatural
Seems quite overcosted. You could throw some "destroy target enchantment" and "destroy target blocking creature" as well.

> Pierce the Heart
Feels weird. It is exactly like Vengeance, only a lot cheaper. (and I'm not 100% how much that effect fits white now a days)

> Ambition of the Decayed
> Ambition of the Guard
If the plan was to make it a cycle or something, Ambition of the Guard seems very underpowered. Maybe it could spawn two 1/1 instead of only 1?

> Hidden Edge
(W) instant that gives +1/+0 and first strike seems pretty mediocre.

Compare to Gift of Paradise. I'm not sure if not untapping balances this card if it just costs G. I also don't think "agriculture" as a concept as a Red thing.

If it matters, Despair is already the name of a card. Well, one half of a split card but whatever.

Is this supposed to turn single target stuff into all-opponent stuff AND juice up the damage? I'm comparing this to Ember Maw Hellion's mana cost, and the cost to Overload a spell, and this feels like it should cost a fuckton more. Also, semantics, but "surge" feels like a name for a one-off effect, not a name for a continuous effect.

I think the ideal is that while the Browbeat's secondary overall effect could be out of color, it should still be accomplished in a way that is within color.

For example, a Blue browbeat effect could be a 'return to bottom of library' thing, which is functionally destroying something, but is still overall Blue in execution.

>Because while its true that Browbeat-style cards stray further form the colorpie, it doesn't break it completely.
Are you the arbiter of the color pie now? How is straight-up draw Red? How ia mill Red? How is counterspell Black? How is extra turns Black?

if you are planning this for a limited environment, I would bump ambition up to mythic since it's probably too bomby at rare. Otherwise, I really like them! Nice, clean design.

Wanted to upgrade Channel the Suns, think I got a bit carried away. Let me know if it's too much.

>spend 2G to ramp 5 times

Like said way too good.

Just because there's a card that makes 5 mana with one of each color, doesn't mean you can put an effect on the same card that does something that would be strong enough to cost one of each color otherwise.

I think more interesting would be a Green card that could add a couple mana of any color of your choice, and then search for basic lands that can produce the color of manas spent on the graveyard ability, but it still needs to be costed as the Ramp that it is in both cases.

Is this too powerful for a 2-mana creature?

Double evasion like that means it's almost impossible to block. But it dies to removal, and it's not in a good tribe, so it should be fine.

Check Ixalan spoilers to find out

I think it is a bit pushed with both Flying and Menace. The multicolor helps, but as a common I think it'd be safer at 3.

I'm an idiot. Didn't even think about using the mana for its own exile ability. How would you rate it without the activated ability? As for the suggested idea, how about
>Add [number] mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool. For each color of mana added to your mana pool, search your library for a basic land card that could produce mana of that color and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library.

Without the effect it's just a strictly better Channel the Suns. Being an instant helps, but it also being 1 mana cheaper feels odd on top of that.

Arborback stomper has 1 toughness less than gemstone guardian and is placed at uncommon. you really gotta put some extra degenerate value on it if you want to honor the thragtusk legacy.

I felt like Channel was overpriced. But I guess it makes sense to make it 3G. Just wish I could do something better with the exile ability. Land with a basic land type enters the battlefield, tutor for a land with a different basic lans type?

I would say you could make it a Socery at 3 cmc, have it add the mana, and then make the exile effect cost 3 cmc to search for one land.

It doesn't have to be a super color fixing ritual along with great ramp, but if you do the ramp also doesn't need to be outstanding, or cost multiple colors. Just have it be 2G so you can cast it, get some mana in colors you need, then put the colors you don't need towards a land and fixing.

Simple and effective. Thanks. No wonder I couldn't think of it. Though I think I'll make it 4 mana instant, then tutor for 3 at sorcery-speed.

That sounds good. It lets the mana be more useful at any time, gives less excess, and also means that the land search is more clearly a separate bonus.

This doesn't seem particularly worthy of being a mythic

You realize this is basically just a 3 mana Instant that searches 5 lands, right? There is absolutely nothing you did right with this card, it's fucked from every angle.

I think this is not as good as it seems, hence it actually getting printed.

The double evasion is just kind of overkill (flying is usually enough to be pretty much unblockable most of the time) and a two drop evasive 2/2 is nothing special, especially for two colors. Id almost be surprised if it saw constructed play but dinosaurs need low drops so.

I've been working on it.