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"Shotguns aren't THAT overpowered" edition

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Favorite official setting?

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Just a friendly reminder.

Obviously Lankhmar. I love me Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories and having an official setting is the best.

Does anybody streamline their game? If so, how? What rules do you ignore / change?

I'm interested in Savage Worlds, but I tend to run with rules-lite games, and it seems just a bit too crunchy for my taste.

Savage Rifts, I guess. So far I can't say I'm all that wowed by any official setting.

Are there any decent supers settings for it?

While it's not exactly rules light, it's a shitload lighter than many other games out there, the basic mechanics are pretty damn simple. Most of the book is character options, situational shit, etc. Give the test drive a look to get a picture of the basic mechanics.

You guys ever run one of the published campaigns? My university's gaming group is advertising open spots for Necessary Evil this semester, with Rippers starting in the Spring semester once Nexessary Evil wraps up. Does anyone have any thoughts on either?

I ran Sundered Skies once, going to run it again with a /bunch/ of houserules and narrative changes due to ethics boards dictating certain things are outright refused within the uni gaming group I go to. Also the fact that Sundered Skies was written for Explorers, published during Deluxe, and has an expansion which refers to Deluxe Explorers page numbering; AND has wild shifts in tone and mechanics in different sections, so a bunch of updates and "this doesn't make any sense" updates are needed to the bloody thing. Also the fact there's only two Island Guides, thus making every island that isn't Gateway or the Shattered City a bit lacklustre by comparison in terms of Lazy GM Content.

It'll be worth it when it's finished, though.

>"Shotguns aren't THAT overpowered" edition
But they could be.

Fuse Strength and Vigor
Default all skills to the appropriate stat (advances that reference skills kick in when you roll to use that skill still)
Forget Charisma exists.
Use Savage Armory for weapons instead of using the weapon list (or use an even more simplified one, where you only have weapon categories).

I don't think you can get any simpler than that.

If he wanted to simplify things, why would you suggest adding an additional book whose sole purpose is creating your own weapons from a point system, over the ones in core?
How does that simplify things?
Like at all?

I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks!

Eh, it's a wash. I just really don't like the core weapons list, and I think having the more consistent SA list is actually less mentally taxing (for me).

Which is why I mentioned weapon categories there, which would be simpler than both.

So I just cracked open my dusty ole copy of the armoury after figuring out which directory it was left in.
Again, I seriously have to ask why? All it does is seem to simplify things that didn't need simplified, while adding a bunch of fiddly nobs on. I'm not seeing any of the flaws core's weapons have being addressed either.

Also. Do you really need a stat to tell you that your spear can't be conveniently sheathed around your hip? I'm genuinely curious what draws people to this outside of guidelines for people unfamiliar with the system for making their own weapons.

I guess we just agree to disagree then. I feel it simplifies exactly the things it needs to simplify, and fixes exactly the things I sorta have issues with.

And yes, adding a cumbersome tag to things does help reminding the players and is a good additional level of balance on weapons/equipment load that is on a good level of compromise between "count the individual weight of everything" and "just ignore it".

Again, imo.

Hey /svg/ I'm completely new to the system and attempting to make a character for a friends superhero campaign.
I'd like some advice on how to turn my power idea into mechanics.

She has the ability to morph her body into and grow animal parts at will. Like giant bat wings from her shoulders or a hard carapace over her skin.

There's a Shape Change power, use that probably.

>Also. Do you really need a stat to tell you that your spear can't be conveniently sheathed around your hip?
I think that's more for weapon-creation / stat-balancing than the belief it's necessary to inform people of that or they'll play it wrong.

I'm at work so I don't have the supers companion in front of me, but that sounds like a few different powers. Savage Worlds has power trappings, which let you customize and personalize each power. Shape change will definitely help for most of what you want, but you can always take extra powers and flavor them to do what you want. Buy flight, saying when you use it bat wings sprout, get the armor power and say a beetle's carapace is forming. You could buy the bolt power and when you use it say you're shooting porcupine quills, use boost trait to say you've gained gorilla's strength or boost your notice buy saying you've given yourself eagle eyes.

There are quite a few ways to make your ideas work, and I hope you have fun with your game!

So I just cannot fucking remember to use gang up modifiers in my game. My players don't remember either, so it doesn't give them any benefit, but we all came to Savage Worlds from DnD, so when we start combat we kind of get into a DnD style mindset. Does anyone have any tips for remembering situational rules? A cheat sheet or something?

there is a cheat sheet in the back of the book I am sure. Just copy/paste or just print that page for a DM screen insert.

Oh shit. That would be great. Thanks user, I should have looked.

Here is the tables as a PDF I found it after a quick google search. s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/peg-freebies/SWD_GM_Tables.pdf

I bought the Savage RIFTS boxset. It was a great buy and worth the money IMO it came with dice and Bennies. I cant wait for more splats I can only hope they figure out how to bring the anti monster over so I can be a vampires walking nightmare.

Thanks user, I appreciate it. These are exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

How are you liking RIFTS? I've never even touched the original, and am curious about the new Savage RIFTS release but I know next to nothing about it.

Well classic RIFTs is pretty damn hard to get into. Its a dinosaur of an age of RPGS that is great to pull ideas from but the system is super clunky. Savage RIFTS is really damn fun and it empowers the player characters to do over the top things. I played a few sessions with freinds and I rolled up a full conversion combat cyborg. The party was A Glitterboy Pilot, A bird man layline walker, A human Mystic, and a Human Technomancer, and a dragon and me the rage filled murder machine.

Unlike regular rifts it gives you a straight up reason to be working together and that is the Tomorrow Legion, basically a group of Humans and Debees banding together for freedom and protection from the various monsters that come from the rifts and the Coalition states.

Next to Deadlands, Savage RIFTS is a really really big recommend.

Not that you even had to try very hard, but I think you just convinced me to pick up a copy. If my players aren't interested, at the very least it'll be full of interesting things I can use in other games.

Yeah one of the things they really used to amp up the stuff over all are the mega powers, basically some of the classes can use the mega powers at the start but others have to take an edge that allows them to use them. Basically mega powers take the regular powers list and give each a really insane version to use. Most of the damage dealing powers convert it over to Mega Damage which is a key part of the RIFTS setting.

That sounds kind of awesome, actually. Though I'm sure they'd only be usable in RIFTs or else they'd be way too unbalanced.

I just did a session 0.5 of sorts to try and learn the game with my group. It was a load of fun, but I allowed all weapons in the core rule book. I'm also using the fantasy companion book and my question is: with guns existing, will monsters I throw at them die before they even get close? (The only player that has guns chose the pistoleer archetype and has 2 glocks).

Well the edge you need to take to get it is a legendary edge.

Unless you have a three-round burst rifle (which is a balance issue in itself), a shotgun is overpowered. This has nothing to do with its damage. This has everything to do with its +2 to hit because the developers do not have any fucking clue how important a +2 bonus is in their system. There is something in a system called number range which refers to the scale of numbers the system uses in its core mechanics. Also referred to as granularity. The more granular the system is, the less that a +1 bonus (or its equivalent) will matter. The less granular a system is, the more it will matter. A +1 in D&D is almost meaningless: a 5% increase in chance of success. A +1 in Savage Worlds is anywhere from an 8% to a 25% increase in chance of success.

Give a shotgun to an inbred somali and instead of hitting you 25% of the time he is hitting you 75% of the time. Give it to an average american soldier and the difference is less but still significant. When in reality, using a shotgun requires a good deal of skill. It is not a "spray and pray" weapon. Giving it a bonus to hit is genuinely retarded. In d20 system I could see it giving a +1 or +2, but in Savage Worlds +2 is a fucking game changer of a bonus. It is the difference between "I might make this roll" and "I'm going to make this roll."

Give a shotgun to a PC who gets sharpshooter and every single "hit" he gets will be with a raise as long as he is standing still. This will give his weapon an average of 16.8 damage which wipes nearly everything in the fucking book.

The three-round burst argument is fucktarded, it's like saying "well the holocaust happened, therefore genocide is okay." No, three round burst is still a problem because turning it on makes the gun almost twice as effective. Guess what, faggot? If that were true, handing out m16s to the hajis would increase US casualty rates by 50%! But that doesn't happen, you know why? Because 3 round burst is not that fucking effective!

Well it depends on the monster, like damage more or less can explode like crazy all the time. Like I had a Jersey Devil die to a lever action rifle at medium range in a Deadlands game I ran. The dice exploded up to about 40 ish damage and there is no saving from that. The thing with guns is that they are an equalizer which means everyone can get one if you plan on using them in your setting, same with magic.

Ah, I think I see what your saying. I'll have to take a look at the bestiary some more so I can understand their strengths and weaknesses better.
I'm just hoping stuff like wyrms and dragons don't get instagibbed without lucky rolls.

They could not possibly have chosen a worse system to reboot Rifts than Savage Worlds. I mean, it's hard to pick a system worse than Savage Worlds in the first place. In terms of generic systems there are FAR better options: GURPS, Cortex, and FATE, to name a few.

Savage Worlds takes a decent core mechanic and lumps on a shitty wild die that is arbitrarily assigned because "muh plot" and fills the character with bennies that require the player to know all of their uses to use effectively. Not to mention, Benny effectiveness is heavily dependent on session length, so if you don't play the recommended 4 to 6 hours the game becomes wildly unbalanced.

The game is full of garbage trap options like in 3.5, the chargen is basically minmaxing Flaws like in GURPS except worse, shotguns are brokenly powerful giving a flat +2 to hit which in this system is basically only missing on a 1. They also do broken-ass damage because of exploding dice. The exploding dice also turn combat into a slogfest occasionally punctuated by someone actually dying; usually from a fucking ridiculous amount of damage.

I played Savage Worlds for a good three years now. Never will play it again, it is an arsed system that is half narrative bullshit, half autistic wargame, and entirely terrible.

Well things like Wyrms and Dragons are normally gonna be wild cards and player character equivalent or more so therefore will have all the same benefits your players will.

So the powers in Savage Worlds are basically pretty combat focused, and don't have very long durations. I've basically combined the rituals from Lankhmar and the Horror Companion into a system with my own minor tweaks that essentially allow for powers that last longer outside of combat, with the trade being they take time and focus to cast (since they're dramatic tasks). I might share my little homebrew here once I get home.

On top of that, I let trappings go farther than they would in the books a bit. A player could tweak the bodyguard spell into a non combat mount summon spell, or tweak obscure into a silence spell, maybe having it cost an extra PP if the GM would prefer.

Just sharing some ideas on powers I guess.

50 Fathoms doesn't get enough love, I think. It's got a great plot point campaign and a really interesting setting.

Favorite licensed setting is Savage Rifts. Been a Rifts fan since 1991, and it's high time that the setting got a decent system to go along with it.

>"Shotguns aren't THAT overpowered" edition


>TFW your're playing a World War 2 game and the point man on the squad carries a shotgun and has a higher Jap kill count than any other man in the squad

Yeah, I love Savage Worlds, but shotguns are indeed kind of OP.

Well why wouldn't he? If he has a d10 shooting, even japs in cover are going to be hit 50% of the time without issue. In the open, they have a 90% chance of being hit. And a 50% chance of being hit with a raise. A 5 toughness japanese soldier has a 74% chance of dying from a single shotgun blast. The m1 garand? Only 56%. Oh but that raise on teh shotgun blast makes it a 94% kill rate. And if he has Marksman, well... that fucker's never gonna miss.

But no, no, shotguns are balanced! Really, they are! And if i don't like it, I'll just houserule it because that makes everything better and means the game is good if you have to change the rules to make it good that means it was good in the first place war is peace freedom is tyranny ignorance is strength i love big brother i love big brother

...

>I wrote all this because I'm too braindead to think to remove a simple +2 bonus
>Literally comparing 3RB to the Holocaust
>Not just getting rid of 3RB too
I hope this is a failed, longwinded attempt at bait

Of course it is, user.

If it rustles your autism so badly use the fix from East Texas University instead of shitposting about how rectally wrecked you are over it. Fuck's sake.

What fix?

The +2 only applies at medium range and beyond, as the pellets have had enough distance to scatter a little.

I already houseruled it anyway: a flat +1 at all ranges except for sawed-offs, they really need some love besides the ability to use them in melee combat.

I said nothing about 3 round burst. Also PCs mopping the floor with enemies is not a bad thing.

>argument from realism

Stop, just stop. We need to argue about its merits as a game mechanic. The game functions just fine around it. As I said, if it inflames your autism that badly, give the bonus at further range increments, which is both plausible, and does a lot to take the legs out from under shotguns.

I don't know the powers very well. Would it be acceptable to claim the bolt spell is a spectral gun that you can materialize into your hand to fire shots out of?

>having to houserule a +2 away is comparable to totalitarianism

People like you are why gamers have a bad name.

Totally.

>I wrote all this because I'm too braindead to think to remove a simple +2 bonus
More like the devs were too braindead to remove it.
>Literally comparing 3RB to the Holocaust
Sure. I fail to see how that counters anything I said.
>Not just getting rid of 3RB too
That was literally what I was advocating for you dumbfuck.

Not an argument.

>I said nothing about 3 round burst.
So? Does that mean I can't bring it up.
>Also PCs mopping the floor with enemies is not a bad thing.
It is when there is basically no reason to use anything but a shotgun at close range. That is ridiculous and has no bearing on reality, it's like the Katanas being good at piercing armor. Complete bullshit.
>Stop, just stop.
I can argue realism if I want you stupid fucking cunt. Realism is important. You say it's not? Okay then my cahracter can fucking fly, at will, no holds barred, and you don't get to say SHIT about it, because you said realism doesn't matter, you little fucking nigger. Now you are going to make a roll20 campaign where I can play a character who can fly at will, shit his pants and turn it into gold, and pogo stick up to the moon, all because realism doesn't matter. That is YOUR argument fuckface and you talk the talk now you're gonna walk the walk.

If so many people are houseruling it because it is broken, then PERHAPS THE DEVELOPERS SHOULD HAVE MADE IT A +1 INSTEAD.

Awesome. Trappings are kind of cool.

Let me start by saying I agree with the katana. Shit is inappropriate in anything that isn't a lupin the 3rd game.
but
>It is when there is basically no reason to use anything but a shotgun at close range.
Let's see. There's always the whole not being able to lug a shotgun around with you everywhere you go thing, the lack of AP, the lack of rof, the lack of ammo capacity, their weights are all pretty high, despite needing short range to function they cannot be used in melee meaning the sort of environment necessary to force your opponent into close range also allows fighters to close the gap under cover, and again largely due to the weight you're limiting your auxiliary weapon/armor options.

So either your issue is arising due to poorly planned bland combat arenas, or dumb opponents willing to wade into your shotgun. Or the players have actually set up a situation where their assets shine and should be rewarded as a result.

Does anyone here use the encumbrance rules? When our group played DnD a lot we ignored them so once we started Savage Worlds we ignored them, too, though my players already seem to have a lot of stuff.

I ask my players to track their combat kit. I could care less about everything else so long as it doesn't seem silly at a glance.
Without encumbrance you're more likely to run into less choices, because weight keeps certain options from being strictly better especially with armor.

>So either your issue is arising due to poorly planned bland combat arenas, or dumb opponents willing to wade into your shotgun. Or the players have actually set up a situation where their assets shine and should be rewarded as a result.
This has nothing to do with that. This has to do with the fact that a shotgun is not as effective in close quarters as Savage Worlds seems to pretend it is. Go spout your MUH SHOTGUN BEST FOR CQB shit on >>/k/ and see how far you get.

I'm talking purely from an encounter design perspective, shotguns are not op and have very easy and expected workarounds. If realism is your sole concern please play a system not designed to emulate pulp fiction.

I use a "you can carry your Strength in Heavy items" ruling - Heavy items being things like a tent, a 'main' weapon such as a longsword, greataxe or hammer, large blackpowder weapons, ship parts or certain quantities of loot.

Though I make loot more a time concern than a weight concern in most circumstances, as most times the limiting factor is how much time the PCs are willing to invest in Narrative Time to load up the ship with stuff, rather than how much they can actually carry.

>You say it's not? Okay then my cahracter can fucking fly, at will, no holds barred, and you don't get to say SHIT about it

Game mechanics don't allow it :^)

>If so many people are houseruling it because it is broken, then PERHAPS THE DEVELOPERS SHOULD HAVE MADE IT A +1 INSTEAD.

Oh man, I know, why don't they just hop in their time machine and reprint those old books?

>Okay then my cahracter can fucking fly, at will, no holds barred, and you don't get to say SHIT about it,
Ah so you're playing an avion?

>there will never be a Savage Worlds thread without an autist freaking out about shit that doesn't matter

>Favorite official setting?
Probably Weird War I.

So I just read an optional rule proposed by Clint, where the GM has unlimited bennies to use as he pleases, but in return, every time he spends one he hands it over to the player being affected by the roll. Any opinions on this?

Neat

Could be cool. It'd piss off the resident sperglord though.

You don't get to bitch about the game not being realistic then bitch about shotguns being really good at close range.

Are shotguns really that big of a deal when you account for all the penalty modifiers to hit like cover, dim lighting, movement, etc.?

At least at my table that wouldn't matter much. I generally don't use gm bennies. Though when I do it's usually to augment a wildcard baddie's own pool, which I don't think I'd want to do with this rule in effect. I feel it could turn such a combat into a slaugh.
See , not at all. I'm much rather have a weapon that allows for both a similar close range punch while still allowing for long range options should the need arise. Like literally any rifle.

Yeah. Because they try to be vaguely realistic. That doesn't mean super-simulationist shit, but it means the game makes some degree of physical sense. Stop creating false dichotomies.

It does matter, though. Shotguns are unrealistically effective in close quarters and beyond. Hell, dealing pistol damage at medium range is a small trade for the +2 to hit. You do understand that is like having a +6 weapon available to you in D&D from level 1, right? You do understand that a +2 is not the same in Savage Worlds as in D&D, right? You do understand that just flatout using a shotgun is just as effective as spending a full six seconds to aim, right? You do understand that the guns in the game are broken, even contain literal errors (such as AK-47 dealing more damage than m1 garand), and you stupid twats, instead of accepting that your game has errors, continue to autistically defend them.

No they aren't? Have you ever noticed how a wildcard with a d4 in driving is nearly identical in skill to an above average stuntman (d8 extra)? Actually have you noticed that non important people are called extras all of the time? Or how the book constant uses the word pulp to describe things?

Its a fucking pulp action movie system you hyperbolic dumb dumb. Guess how shotguns work in literally every movie let alone pulpy ones?
Exactly like they do in the gear section.

>he thinks shotguns are actually CQB god-weapons
Holy fucking shit. Please post that on /k/ and link the thread here, I want to watch you getting roasted like a thanksgiving turkey.

Yes they are, you stupid fucking cunt. Why are you so fucking retarded? The +2 to hit applies IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. Anything a rifle tries to hit, a shotgun can hit better. Unless using 3 round burst. Which (A) only a small portion of the rifles have, and (2) three round burst is fucking stupid.

You do understand that a shotgun fires a cone, right? It's a very very narrow cone of shot. The spread is ONE FUCKING INCH PER YARD. So for one thing, it's not spreading very much, and for another, it starts out small and grows wider later. You do understand the shotgun pellets dont fucking change angles, right? They don't fly out a certain distance apart then fly in unison toward their target, right? You do understand that a shotgun giving +2 to hit something ten feet away makes ZERO FUCKING SENSE, right? Out at long range, when the shotgun deals LESS damage, that might make sense. Fuck, I can even see it from a pulp / simplicity perspective. Just a flat bonus to hit. I'd do that if it was a d20 system. But not a fucking +2 which is the difference between an inbred somali and a well-trained US Marine.

>Anything a rifle tries to hit, a shotgun can hit better.
Except the entirety of shotgun mid range is contained within a rifle's short range. So the second you're 13 inches or more away the rifle is better in every way.
The bolt action rifle.

>Guess how shotguns work in literally every movie let alone pulpy ones?
A random enemy picks one up and suddenly blows a main character's head off? Cause that how Savage Worlds has it set up! And also no, faggot, watch some actual movies and show me one where the shotguns are "lol always hit cause of buckshot" retardation.

Except the shotgun still gives a +2 to hit. Also, what is moving?

So if we go with your 1 inch spread per yard number. And 13 inches as the beginning of mid range, that means the shotgun's spread would be
13x2=26 inches.

So it seems the like the etu rules would fit you pretty well like everyone has been telling you for literally months.
I'd say a whole 2 feet of fucking spread is worth a +2 to cancel out the usual mid range penalty, and the damage drop off still seems appropriate because a decent chunk of those pellets probably aren't still hitting unless you're aiming at something worthy of the large size modifier.

You're fun you know that? No silly, that's the protagonist's job. The baddie is rocking a single d6+2 to hit for an average of 11 damage at close range. That's not terribly threatening to a wildcard.

A +2 to hit that literally only affects the shotgun's accuracy 12 or less inches away. Both the rifle and shotgun fire at +0 between 13 and 24 inches, except the rifle now has more damage and ap. The rifle also has a max range of 96, where as you shouldn't really consider firing that shotgun beyond 24 because a -2 to hit for a single d6 of damage is pointless.

>So it seems the like the etu rules would fit you pretty well like everyone has been telling you for literally months.
Except the +2 applies at close range as well.
>I'd say a whole 2 feet of fucking spread is worth a +2 to cancel out the usual mid range penalty
So? It's still better than an SMG in that case, yet you'll notice that SWAT faggots don't use shotguns as their primary weapons, they use SMGs. Also obviously a single extra with a shotgun isn't threatening. But your gang of five enemies with AKs? Give them shotguns and they are way better. Also I'm still waiting for an example of one of these "pulp movies" where shotguns are auto-hit weapons because of le ebin buckshot spread.

>Except the +2 applies at close range as well.
Yeah, that's why shotguns exist user. To be as they have been portrayed in the media. The close gun.
The rifle is better in all other regards, and as a result of its versatility is the better gun for the carry weight and price.

>Give them shotguns and they are way better.
user if you're playing and you actively enter a 1v5 with a small group of armed men, in their prefered range bracket. Then yes. Yes they will be a threat. A threat that can be safely neutralized with 0 chance of harm if you engage at your long range.

Also I'm sure there's a tv trope's page if you want specific examples of film trivia.

Fucking stupid. Why even bother rolling at all? Just make it a diceless benny game like Amber.

>The close gun.
Yeah because they deal a lot of damage at close range. The +2 applies at all ranges.
>The rifle is better in all other regards, and as a result of its versatility is the better gun for the carry weight and price.
Only if it has three round burst.
>user if you're playing and you actively enter a 1v5 with a small group of armed men
Who said anything about 1v5? I'm talking a party of 3-5 guys versus a group of 5 men with shotguns. They are going to be buffed. Also most battles that take place on tabletop are going to be within 12/24/48 and oftentimes closer. I guarantee you if I have a shotgun and you have an AR-15 and we get into a close-quarters disagreement your AR-15 is going to win because of follow up shots unless you get in the first hit. Shotguns deal devastating damage to the body, look at the size of the shell you will see. For all I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know. But they sure as fuck do not give a +2 to hit, at least not against man-sized targets. If it was a bird or clay disk I'd say sure but there are no rules for hitting moving targets in Savage Worlds, another of its many flaws.

The real issue here isn't the shotguns, it's the developer's lack of understanding of how their system works and what a big deal a +2 to hit is. Cause a +1, while still a bit much, is fair and in line for pulp boomsticks, but a +2 is just fucking insane. I don't think you people fully comprehend the probabilities here. Nor do I think you've played many games with characters who use shotgun. They fucking dominate. Unless they are out on the open plains or maybe in a sparse forest they will absolutely devastate shit even with shit Shooting score.

Yeah these threads are fucking awful. Maybe if we start an edition war people might ignore the shotgun guy?

Flat damage should be brought back, old chase rules were the best, something about the incapacitation rules changing, older settings are better.

>Yeah because they deal a lot of damage at close range. The +2 applies at all ranges.

+2 at close means more likely to score a raise and thus turn it into a hollywood gore cannon, +2 a medium and long is to represent spread.

>Who said anything about 1v5? I'm talking a party of 3-5 guys versus a group of 5 men with shotguns.
Oh then the pcs will win even harder, because 11 damage is a single wound on the average pc. If they engage at a distance like sane people then the shotgunners stand less of a chance. At close range those shotguns are going to be relying on luck to case more than 1 wound at a time, and are at best going to be benny soaks. The baddies will be off the table on a single average roll of the kar's damage. Wildcards will hit more often than not if shooting is a thing they're supposed to be able to do. Combat lasts 2-3 rounds. Absolute player victory.

If we're talking about a semi automatic rifle, double tap again allows for the ball to be even more in their court.

I generally run games with descriptive combat which suffers no such expectation of an arena limited to a battle mat or table. You suggest an open field is a shotgun's weakness, I'd argue being indoors is its only strength, until someone with a knife closes the distance and makes your gun unusable, a feat entirely possible in a single round if the engagement distance is within close shotgun range.

>+2 at close means more likely to score a raise and thus turn it into a hollywood gore cannon, +2 a medium and long is to represent spread.
Then they should have increased the damage. A shotgun doesn't hit more often at close quarters. Don't make the bulk argument either because the pistols don't get a bonus to hit close up either. A shotgun isn't any more maneuverable than a rifle.

>The baddies will be off the table on a single average roll of the kar's damage.
>implying they don't have armor of some kind
But sure.
>If we're talking about a semi automatic rifle, double tap again allows for the ball to be even more in their court.
Double tap is even more fucking retarded. By their logic for DT and 3RB why not fire 4 shots for +3 to hit and damage? Even GURPS knew better than to do that kind of shit.
>I generally run games with descriptive combat which suffers no such expectation of an arena limited to a battle mat or table.
Descriptive combat doesn't preclude a battle mat, nor does a battle mat preclude descriptive combat. Again, please note what the United States Army uses for room clearing. They do not use shotguns except to breach doors.

We've already accepted it by proposing fixes you loser. We just don't think it's that big of a deal. What do you want from us? Are you just mad people are playing a game you don't like? You've been shitposting about this particular molehill for months. MONTHS. Do you have any idea how fucking pathetic that is? We don't care about realism except in the barest sense required to maintain suspension of disbelief, get that through your sad little skull.

Flat damage sucked the cock, I agree with you on the chase rules because fuck cards, Tour of Darkness and Weird War II desperately need updating.

>hurr le US Army doesn't shotgun when they clear le room!
You don't do that in Savage Worlds either because at best you're only killing a single target a turn in what could be a roomful of bad guys. An SMG capable of being one-handed is flat out better for room clearance because of autofire.
Saging because you're a fucking mongoloid and/or Virt and should go chug some Clorox

>implying they don't have armor of some kind
If we assume armor players continue to win. Surely they too would have it if it is available enough that 5 mooks can all easily get it. Again the Kar has AP the shotgun does not. Further advantage to the players.
4 shots is the realm of full auto not a burst setting on a firing selector.
A battlemat was simply an example. If you constrain all combat to the boundaries of your table then people will start thinking within those constraints.

The only reason the players in this scenario are engaging the shotgun club on the mooks terms is because you literally need that for your point to have any bite. Keep trying to stack the odds even harder in your favor user.

Hey /svg/!

Sorry on the delays, I'm still not satisfied with what I've made so far. Getting rough drafts out for review is a dick when you're autistic.

What have you all been up to?

Oh hai squidfiddler. I was wondering how the Splatoon thing was going
I've kept working on my prehistoric alien beasts setting. Ironically these threads have given me some good ideas for implementing shotguns.

>squidfiddler
You take that back!

When you say prehistoric alien beasts, do you mean beast so different they're alien to your audience or do you mean dinosaurs vs xenomorphs and predators?

>The real issue here isn't the shotguns, it's the developer's lack of understanding of how their system works
Go bother them with this then. There's literally nothing anyone here can do about that.

Flat damage was more consistent. I think it might actually be you that sucked the cock. The cock of flat damage.

He wants us to stop playing Savage Worlds.

No. Not happening.

>There's literally nothing anyone here can do about that.
If you live in America there is.

>You take that back!
Make me bich ill fight you IRL
>When you say prehistoric alien beasts, do you mean beast so different they're alien to your audience or do you mean dinosaurs vs xenomorphs and predators?
Aliens based on prehistoric earth. Terror birds well on their way to sapience, entelodont-like mammaloids, the last of the not!dinosaurs, swamp-dwelling newt-crocs. The PCs are scientists stationed on a dangerous shithole research station on a planet a few lightyears from Earth, who need to use bioaugmentation just to survive going out beyond the electric fence, even with railguns and military grade combat armor

I haven't been following Savage Worlds for a while, could someone give me a quick rundown on what settings/splat books are supported these days? I heard rifts was ported, what else?