Exalted General

>Even if you aren't breaking something
it ruined many things in two editions before the devs finally thought of reigning it in. see:Knacks

Impaling the last Alaun on all the Elemental Poles at once skips past "dark" for me and into really silly because of the sheer logistics involved. I actually laughed out loud the first time I read it.

Mountain folks a bestest.

Lintha a best.

Dragon-king a okay.

Alaun a shit.

You just have to use weird, metaphysical effects! It's no weirder than Sidereal Martial Arts.

>D&D is easily broken, incoherent, and too complex for what it does.

This applies to exalted as well.

>Exalted is so open-ended.

This applies to D&D as well.

It's just that in context there's no real justification for it and OOC its clearly the Infernal fans influence on TAW

t. D&D autist

Any info on the fallen races and the First Age?

I have this Idea in my mind:

A campaign where the Empire crumbles because one of the fallen Races returns in full force. The PCs are Solar Exalted sperging around in an Independent City State at the start. They do whatever the fuck they like but the power Vacuum the falling Empire leaves behind will soon reach them. And then they have to deal with the advancing fallen race eventually...

Then they have to find First Age stuff and are confronted with their former selfs from the First Age and their sins.

Optional: If the Fallen Races alone aren't threatening enough : They are the Puppets of Abysals or Infernals

The point of the eclipse charmshare power is to learn charms from other sources. It's obvious that some god/ghost/demon is going to have a different theme to it's charms than solars.
Mixing thematics is a basic consequence of it.

So why does that mean Lunar charms have to be dull?

In addition there is a difference between the ability and a specific usage of the ability.

Charmshare is broken from a game-balance stand point because of stuff it gives access to.
This does not mean that all uses of Charmshare are broken.

If an Eclipse caste Solar learns the "Host of Spirits" variant that allows him to summon a pillow, that isn't exactly gamebreaking.

What does the "t." in "t. autist" thing stand for?

Scroll of the Fallen Race has information on the Jadeborn and the Dragon Kings. That's pretty much it. Neither of those races is going to topple the Realm, though.

you don't even need that. the alaun had very long necks. VERY VERY VERY long ;)

>So why does that mean Lunar charms have to be dull?
it is literally the answer the lunar writer gave for the separation of all shapeshifting into knacks rather than it being spread through the charmtrees. "gotta quarenteen this bullshit so solars can't take it and go off theme, or steal the lunar-shapeshifting splat feature"

Terveisin, or with regards or smt

Why not just make shapeshifting Charms non-Eclipse?

Because they didn't want to damage Solar Specialiness by saying that Lunars had charms the Solar's couldn't learn.

any homebrew for porting in and integrating some of 1e lunar's charms into their 2.5 tree?

I think it's more that having to go 'Eclipse-No' over and over again puts a dent in your overall word count. At least with Knacks they could be billed as a unique Lunar power in addition to charms like Astrology was for Sidereals.

native didn't exist as a keyword until the infernals book iirc

so you get these weird and inconsistently kludge workarounds for everybody else.

Personally I'd have liked to see something like the "enhanced" keyword inkmonkies used to make solar herostyle extra special to solars. so eclipse could learn something LIKE the lunar's charm but lesser and stripped of all shapeshifting the lunar native version makes use of.

Just not having charmshare is a much more elegant solution, though.

and like fiends and the holy keyword, eclipses could learn charms that consisted solely of shapeshifting only to gain access to things they are a prerequisite for

it is. but we're talking about 2e where charmshare was established as a thing in the first book and there was nothing the lunar's writer could do about that.

(which is why eclipse charmshare is a terrible thing that had to die (or at least be hobbled and castrated like in 3e))

problem with charmshare is that it often fuels this weird mindset that seeking out broken mechanics is on a par with clever choices made in-character.

It's just a bit of google fu to find some of this crap assuming you're not willing to straight up ask for it.

It's the Finnish equivalent to "Regards", pretty sure /pol/ memed it into general Veeky Forums parlance a while ago.

You can't explain to these people that the concept of an idea is good and you can re-work systems around it. They think a poisoned mechanic is a poisoned idea. The Exalted fanbase is incredibly simplistic online. You'll get used to it.

The thing is that the concept of this particular idea isn't actually good.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I've seen lots of people use charms in a clever way. There's a difference between doing things cleverly and abusing a poorly thought out feature to completely assfuck the thematics of a game or world.

There is a difference between thematics ruining and game balance ruining.

If we are talking about thematics, complaining about the Eclipse caste power is kind of weird.
It has been there since the beginning.

Do exalts use the bathroom? I need to know for science.

eclipses being the best at (X) because they can buy the best charms belonging to other exalts is stupid. It goes in the same bin as Twilights being better warriors than dawns. I like the current formulation of the eclipse tag a lot better, and if anything once some spirits get made and there's a variety of Eclipse-tagged effects to choose from it'll better encourage the kind of creativity you want.

Do angels use bathroom?

They don't call it a golden shower for nothing.

everyone except Alchemicals and some Infernals leading theory is that they're androids and should be destroyed youtube.com/watch?v=kQTW7Pd1vqc

Actually what draws my entire LGS to this is that exalted is the closest thing you can ever get to Jojo's Bizarre Adventure or Hunter x Hunter and other power based anime like it without rebuilding them directly in GURPS.

Nobody is invulnerable, full stop. No set of charms makes you immune to all comers, no set of charms in any one splat makes you immune to literally everything every other splat can throw at you.

You can take everything in the solar resistance, integrity, and similar trees, and you will -still- get nailed by that one Lunar or Infernal or Fae who has built themselves around taking you down.

Hell, it's canonical that the greatest danger the high first age faced wasn't the primordials or the fae or even the other exalted.

It was the single primordial who fled creation into the deepest parts of true chaos, and used that to utterly reforge himself into an entity that existed purely to beat the solar exalted. Each of his component souls was built around getting around the various possible builds he had seen the solar exalted employ, he was the primordial of war and terrible victory. They still beat his face in and threw him out but it caused way more casualties than anybody was reasonably expecting. The usurpation can only happen -because- this stuff is true, and the Sidereals learned the strengths and weakenesses of every single Solar and Lunar, and then built kill teams specific to them. The Lunars only survived because they are the adaptation splat and most of them weren't even at the feast of 300 knives.

Exalted is the setting where no matter how much you min max yourself, there's always going to be at least one guy with the technique that can take you down HARD, no matter how massive a bulkward of utter badassitude you make.

Plus, even if you defend yourself from MOST things, you instantly make yourself pretty much useless at actually doing anything except defending yourself. Every solar, every exalt, has to split his time between actually making himself good at doing things, and watching his back.

just because it is old doesn't make it good. there is something very wrong when your dawn player rolled a twilight for that tanky anima and because dawns are shit(zenith or night have better caste attributes for a fighter than the fighter caste), or when your mad research-wizard twilight would kill for the eclipse anima because it lets her learn all the things.
...or when literally anybody else wants to be an eclipse because they are absolutely the best at anything because they can take the charms of other exalts.

dawns having all the weapons filling up their caste abilities was also in 1e but nobody cries about the more flexible caste abilities fixing that (or about the supernatural system changing the way charms work to make dawns favoring all the weapons work as intended in 3e).

besides, the oath binding and ancient diplomatic immunity/contacts alone is A loads more thematic and B a complete anima power in and of itself. the crossplat charms was only ever an excessive dollop of gravy on top.

(and of course all that stuff about no longer having to worry about it when making other splats)

Eclipses being diplomats never really was borne out by their mechanics, except for their immunity anima power. including the charmshare made them read more as "The most Mary of Sues" in first or second edition. So it even /harmed/ the Eclipse thematics, making them more about traveling the world bargaining for more and stranger personal powers which feels far more warlock/twilight.

honestly the deal making anima power worked too, and they work as diplomats if you see them in terms of "Diplomats don't actually make the decisions, they bring the word of their superiors"

their job isn't necessarily to convince the other side to agree, their job is to make sure all the beuracratic nonsense doesn't get in the way of making the agreement, and to deliver the messages of their lords. Even the socialize ability set is about detecting lies more than convincing people (IE: knowing if somebody is worth dealing with, but that's kinda hilarious given in 1e the eclipse Swan was totally cool with working with Mask of winters but the zenith panther wasn't, when Panther should have had the lower MDV)

Would you rather have awareness or athletics favored as a steriotypical fighty dawn?

Awareness, 100%. I'd buy Athletics too, just as noncaste nonfavored.

Why does it mess up the thematics?

Things like the Eclipse anima in old editions made Eclipses the best caste for pretty much anything, because they could snipe the best charms from other exalts, or stack things that shouldn't have been stacked. It means that your character would probably be better as an Eclipse, regardless of your concept.

It's proof positive that more options isn't always better.

...

>What non-weapon artifact are you most excited to see in 3e?
I really want to see consumable "artifacts," like potions/alchemy, or maybe some spellbomb-like items. Basically, I want something for my Craft Supernal to be useful in combat.

>This applies to exalted as well.

I don't know, amigo. At least in Exalted, everyone is equally nuts instead of D&D's Casters raping Martials right out of the gate.

>muh eclipse
just banish it from your game dude

do you completely not understand the context of this conversation. can you even read.

>eclipse is broken buaaaaaaa
just ban, if something is making the game unfun or its broken then ban from the table till the devs fix it you dumbtard

Dude. The problems already been solved circa 3e. The conversation is about how Eclipse charmshare was one of the problems of the prior edition, did not work well with the thematics,and generally made the edition overall worse.

Why do you call people dumbtards when you don't read the conversation at hand.

1 this problem is already fixed in 3e
2 banning wouldn't help, the damage to other splats is already done whether charmshare is houseruled away or not

do you know there are ppl who play 2e and still complain right?

Continuing in this vein: Critique this idea.

>Strip the Eclipse charmshare
>Give it to all Solars w/ a caveat
>They can only Mirror a charm which falls into their caste's abilities

Would this be a better alternative to just banning the Eclipse charmshare?

I'd just do what 3e does and let the player learn "safe" and vetted charms from spirits desu.

Yeah. I think that the main fuck-up was not providing delineation between what you could learn and what you shouldn't learn. Hopefully this means no more implied Charm fuckery to accommodate the Eclipse's BS.

>character learned of Solar fuckery and corruption and shit from a God
>Exalts from contemplating how they fucked totally up
Zenith or Eclipse?
The message spreader or the one who can spread the message?

How might one go about backporting supernaturals to 2.5e? I was thinking "choose one caste ability and learn it's charms as if you were essence 6(until you actually hit e6 at which point this perk vanishes)" but i get the feeling this sets things on fire in some unnoticed way.

Followup question, how would you go about powering up the other splats so they're not just even more shit compared to solars than they already were? I was thinking "lunars automatically have all the knacks that exist just to expand their heartsblood targets, and automatically get the charms to suppress tells and hide tattoos" and "infernals treat their caste/favored/urge yozi charms as if their essence requirements were one essence lower(pick 2 of the three)" as a slightly different version of the solar/abyssal supernatural. But don't know what to do for dragonbloods and sidereals.
I had planned on leaving alchemicals as they are to put them a little closer to terestrial level.

ALSO

What breaks if I take away the scourge's ability to suppress their anima and give them a(n optionally activated) anima flux like dragonbloods have. Move the ability to suppress the anima like a night caste to fiends, and give the fiend's oath binding and breaking to malefactors? (cross splat charms goes to defilers, but is then deleted because cross splat is ass. I made the eclipse version spirit charms only and restricted moonshadows to arcanoi, and then gave all twilight-oids three free degrees in thaumaturgy) pastebin.com/a8tFdJsV

Follow up question does the scourge's new anima flux require beefing up and if so how should I do it?

disclaimer, I haven't played infernals and so would have to review their charmtrees

Yes. And you would know that we weren't talking about or really being the people who still play 2e and complain if you READ THE CONVERSATION UP TO THIS POINT.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

You're missing the point.

Are you high

i was saying for the ones who play 2e you two fucking autists
>implying you two arent the same fag

Either works, but you don't have to limit yourself to Solars with that sort of concept.

Is this game as convoluted as the general would suggest or does it make more sense once you've stopped being a lazy bastard and actually read the book?

It makes sense quite fast if you give it a go

3e that is, don't touch 2e.

Wasn't a "Solars >everyone else" an intended part of Exalted 2es design?*
*which is a bad thing.

Autochthon, Law of Diminishment, Alchemicals.
What would you say if it was hinted that Alchemicals pushed Autochthon's sickness further and made it worse?

2e is completely impenetrable for newcomers, would not recommend. There's so much content, meaningless details and contradicting material that it's impossible to form a coherent view of the world, even without taking into account all the stuff that came out of the Ink Monkeys and Infernal wanking.

3e kinda sucks in a few regards, but I'd always recommend it for newbies trying to get into the game.

Also, thoughts on this modified bond background?
pastebin.com/RJqUgN48

or this modification to the "lunars gain limit when they see the full moon" mechanic? pastebin.com/eXftawHM

maybe, whwy?

Already been dismissed by word of god. They said that it would be completely antithetical to the entire point of Exalted except for, perhaps, Abyssal and Infernals.

The GMs can run with it if they like, but it'll never be directly stated as a thing in the setting, because it would be the ultimate fuck you to alchemical players "The world would be a better place if you never existed".

Thanks anons.

Yes. It doesn't start making sense
I would say that idea is retarded. His sickness is just a part of his nature not because he was dumb enough to make exalts without planning for the side effects. This
Is why he is sick.

...

>2e is completely impenetrable for newcomers
Newcomer here. Maybe if you're retarded or talking about super optimization. Basics and making something decent is doable with even slight understanding of dicepool systems.

It's funny because that was hilariously untrue for 2 entire editions. You had rock solid, unbreakable defenses, and anyone who didn't ate shit, and you had no way around them at all unless you could out-mote them, which a good portion of the time simply was impossible.

Or this on Familiars?
pastebin.com/fMBJ5Sij

2e is a pain for how much of the books that has been rejected by the fanbase or deliberately overwritten by later books.

only if you were direct attacking. There were totally folks you couldn't beat in direct offensive attacks, but perfect defense wouldn't work against social attacks, or if you did shit like throw them across creation without damaging them so that they ended up inside of the pole of fire and had to walk their way back across all of creation, or even a few things like dumping them into elsewhere.

You only ran into the 'impenetrable defense' thing if you were entirely focused on actual combat.

>perfect defense wouldn't work against social attacks

Luckily, I have the best perfect social defense of all: Roll join battle. In 2e you weren't allowed to talk and fight at the same time

>f you did shit like throw them across creation without damaging them so that they ended up inside of the pole of fire and had to walk their way back across all of creation

Pretty sure that involved an attack/could be perfect dodged.

>but perfect defense wouldn't work against social attacks

Social perfect defenses existed.

>or if you did shit like throw them across creation without damaging them so that they ended up inside of the pole of fire

That certainly would constitute an attack by most reasonable people, which would result in the perfects nulling it.

>or even a few things like dumping them into elsewhere

And how were you going to do that?

It's been an intended part of the design of all editions, but the problem has always been execution, not theory. It's like, yeah, Solars can have mastery of martial arts, the highest level of sorcery, can draw out the strongest evocations from any magical material, they can have ridiculous power even at Ess 1 thanks to Supernals, and add more dice than anyone to their rolls...

But in practice, in most games, you're only going to be able to afford having overwhelming power /in your area of expertise/. You're going to be Unbeatable Sword guy, Unbeatable Diplomacy guy, or Unbeatable Sorcery guy, but only one of those. You can try to be able to do all things at the same time, but you'd be half-assing it, sacrificing depth for width. Given arbitrarily large amounts of time and experience, Solars will be the best at everything, sure, but no game should have such a thing as an almighty bored Exalt dude.

Ideally the other Exalt types should have their own stuff that made them good. Dragon-bloods use elemental powers, Lunars shapeshift and take new forms, Sidereals have more information and planning on their hands than anyone, and so on - those are cool concepts that can be as cool as Solars, without compromising how they're the strongest. The problem has always been bad execution. Lunars are thematically incoherent; Sidereals have great charms, but it's a closed set; Abyssals are just Solars painted black, and the less said about Infernals the better.

It makes sense, but only as a retroactive explanation.

pretty sure you guys can't do -all- of those things simultaneously even with a really nice combo, which, again, is how the usurpation went down, cause they couldn't defend against everything at once and they ended up getting nailed with it.

>Open 3e CRB
>Look at all this cool shit we're mentioning!
>Creation chapter
>btw we only statted one of those things

>finding out the daystar and Nyssela are gone in 3e

Damn it, I could have lived without the super gundam deathstar, but Nysella was genuinely one of the better written gods.

typo: essence 5 not six. and infernals' perk is also capped at 5.

and looking at lunar charms: the heartsblood options for supernatural stuff is not included in that, I forgot those existed

Maybe she's his handmaiden in heaven?

>personal headcanon is that the dirigible of day is just the core of a giant solar-essence elemental thing curled around it. The Dawnstar is actually a giant plasma chow that curled itself up around it's core and is taking a nap while waiting for UCS to come back and give it ear scratchies.

do solars not have a "i don't need to sleep" charm?