What are the opinions on Force of Will on Veeky Forums?
I know that generally any CCG that isn't MtG gets shat on, but I've not really heard much about FoW.
The Anime art style puts me off, but at the same time it avoids what I feel to be the biggest flaw MTG has in that "Lands" and all your other cards have separate decks.
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Sounds like you just need to start playing hearthstone if you hate the lands aspect so much of magic.
That being said, I feel like its vanguard 2.0 where it'll be popular for a bit then die to the "new hawtness" of tcgs
It's a really fun game, and the biggest cancer rotated out of New Frontiers (Standard). Plus, you're less likely to deal with elitists.
Hearthstone's a bit TOO simplistic due to lack of coloured mana.
I've played Yu-Gi-Oh and while Link Format is a breath of fresh air in that it slows down the game and makes OTK's harder to do, it can't undo the years of fuckery Konami has done to the game.
ded gaem
Honestly though, I do think it's fun. Though they have been trying a lot of new stuff the past few sets and it's tough to make something fun while also being good/viable.
Power creep is kind of bad, but it looks like they're trying to fix it with the newest set.
The game itself is tons of fun. With the new rotation it has become my main game.
Spell weaver is better, try that.
Also Feriea.
I have a few major issues with FoW. The random lands, the inconsistent power level, the wierdness aroud jrulers.
A more personal gripe is the Japanese habit of making numbers unnecessarily huge. I have a hard time evaluating cards because of the extra 00.
Divide by 10?
I feel the same way too. I find the difference between 2 and 20 more immediately recognizable than 2000 and 20000.
I've heard that's it's because their money is in 1000, 5000, 10,000, etc. denominations so it's what makes sense to them, which I can buy. But then again a lot of them play Magic and love it so I have to wonder if it's a "size" thing. Bigger numbers are better and all.
I should order a few decks. Getting my friends into Wixoss is impossible with costs and language barriers, so I guess if I can't regularly play a nonMagic card game, !not!Magic might be good enough.
The new starter decks are pretty good choices IMO. All of them have gotten good support in Ancient Nights too. As someone who also wishes that he could play Wixoss I am very happy with Force of Will right now.
great mechanisms, shit ui, weeb aesthetic
>weeb aesthetic
Fantastic game! Sometimes the lettering or font is too small not contrast-y enough on the cards though.
The more recent cards look much better IMO.
I started playing a week ago, and it's been pretty fun for now; mind you, I've only played Reiya block games at the moment
I think we're in the same country
>game from japan
>you j-activate abilities instead of just activate
Anymore pics of the artwork of that game? The art looks very pretty.
I get the joke, but "J-activate" refers to activating the "Judgment" form of the Ruler.
Here's the ruler I use most often.
Here's the second side, the "Judgment" form
And the third side, because why the fuck not have a card with three sides
I don't know anything about the game, I just dislike the cards because it's just
>
Generalization: the Posting
I guess that's the only cards that get posted.
Though all the other cards posted in this thread are still
>
Yeah they probably get posted more because they catch the eye more.
I mean, it's true there's a lot of cheesecake going on, but there's also cool stuff like pic related.
i heard many good things but i can't even start to play the game because the artstyle is horrendous.(honorable mentions: some of the few dragons and beasts present are 10/10)
not only that...the picture subjects are boring. 50% of each expansion is " anime girls in fancy clothing and a battle/cleavage pose with abstract background and unique snowflake names".
Meanwhile if i look at 5 random cards from any set in mtg i already see multiple races, landscapes, "actions" and places of interest and many things that set the mood of a setting.
They drag me into the world.
I'd have started playing it already if it wasn't disgusting anime fucking garbage. I like the mechanics from what I've heard.
I used to play a lot of MtG and Pokémon TCG but found myself disliking the direction both games were taking, and the small irks I had started to snowball. FoW and Fire Emblem Cipher are super weeby but are a lot of fun to play and fix issues I had (dead draws are effectively non existent) so those are my new poison.
I really hope Cipher gets a western release
I'm not going to say that some of the criticism towards the game's artwork isn't justified ("But it's anime!" isn't, though), but personally I find the characters depicted on the cards to feel more unique than characters in Magic. If I go looking through the Ixalan Vampires I see dozens of mostly interchangeable vampire conquistadors and a few mostly interchangeable vampire priests/priestesses. There just seems to be more variety within tribes in FoW, even if there are a lot of anime girls.
Do the stones have different art between sets? I'm that loser who likes the different land art in Magic and go out of my way to not have two of the same art on a card.
Comparing Ixalan to the entirety of MtG isn't fair, in my opinion. Sets like Lorwyn, Ravnica, and any Dominaria set show off much more diversity in character designs and (in many cases) styles. Tribes like elves, warriors, vampires, and soldiers are crazy varied from plane to plane, and even within planes sometimes.
A general criticism of anime (not FoW specifically) is that you have cute girls, adult girls, cute boys, gays boys, and oddly-realistic-for-anime men. The variance is dramatically lacking in that regard.
FoW looks fine if not generic in most places. What you expect from anime fantasy: colorful, audacious, not terribly well composed, characters wear their personality on their sleeves because the only text is on cards. Not saying other games are necessarily better, and I've played games with worse anime art by far. But some people just don't like anime.
Neat, and a lot like early Magic where you have dramatically different styles and qualities between cards.
>little girl
>DDD breasts
Anime art everyone.
>mfw KTK Standard killed MtG in my LGS(decks were like $500-$600 just like a tier2 modern deck)
>mfw FoW got popular because the similar mechanics from MtG
>mfw there are now FoW/YuGiOh/Pokemon tourneys of 30+ ppl meanwhile we barely complete 8 players for a MtG tourney
>mfw things havent changed with the new sets since Khans and now I have to drive 2 hours just to play MtG
fuck, I am screwed
yeah, that is the problem lately with MtG. The entry price is huge comparing with pokemon and FoW.
I own a LGS with a friend and there are now like 20+ ppl playing FoW here (some of them are weebs/old mtg/yugioh players that got tired of the game/wanted to try something new) but the game its increasing in popularity.
Meanwhile, there are not many ppl interested in the MtG Ixalan Prerelease (years ago we used to have ppl registering on the pre release a week before the prerelease) and the sales on mtg products have fallen in the last years. The only stuff that ppl buy are the special products like the commander decks and the masters sets.
As someone mostly familiar with MTG, is there anything similar to r/b aggro decks with FoW that also includes a cute waifu or twenty? Or r/g?
FoW has most of the same archetypes as Magic so there are decks like aggro,ramp,control,mid-range,etc. You also have your pick of the litter with waifus so go nuts.
Is there any good site to read up on rulers and the various archetypes for the game then?
>tfw you spent $100 on MtG cards today just before you found out that a store in your city is going to start doing FoW tournaments
And half of that was on 4 lands, I'm mad already.
FoW will never be as big as MtG or YuGiOh. for the fact the firsts dislike weeb art and the second dislike the fow mechanics.
Why? A lot of people enjoy weeb art and hates yugioh's retardation.
>for the fact the firsts dislike weeb art
As a owner of a game store, I've heard that so many times but at the end people and even myself ended playing the game or at least trying it. The art is in my opinion, the least of the problems with FoW and there are several artstyles but yeah, most of them are anime style art. In the end, business are business and I will get and sell FoW products as long as ppl buy them,
The thing that hurts me is my favourite game (MtG) is somehow dying thanks for the bad decisions WotC is making and the rise of CCG like Hearthstone and soon Artifact.
db.fowtcg.us
Each set has different art, outside of an older set which had re-prints of dual stones.
Just look on the database for them.
And there's foil, full art, and/or stamped versions of some of them for those collectors out there.
I see, I guess i'll poke around on remnant and see if there are any articles for scrub players like me.
I have to say the same. I like how you have the normal gothic vampires along with unique looking Japanese vampires among other varieties.
I didn't know a game growing larger in playerbase and sales every year means it's dying.
This, Mtg has had consistent growth for a while now. True it's growth is not the meteoric rise like Hearthstone, but that does not seem to have taken players away from mtg, instead it tapped a new crowd (that really should have belonged to mtg, but they didn't capitalize on it).
The official FoW site has some neat articles as well. And you can of course ask questions on the FoW general.
Sry, I mean it's dying at least where I live and in my game store. I still have Aether Revolt/Amonkhet products accumulating dust and I haven't run an FNM since late august and probably won't get much people playing the Ixalan pre release.
I don't see that problem at all with the other TCG products I sell.
YuGiOh is still played probably thanks to the anime and kids appeal.
Pokemon is still strong and kids still buy me packs and play on weekends.
FoW started slow and honestly I didnt have faith on it from day one, but it slowly started gaining popularity here and now I can run tourneys at weekends.
Magic on the other hand, havent done much to gain new players and the playerbase started to decline not only on my lgs but in others as well. The changes on FNM promos to double-sided tokens seemed a good idea at first, till I realised it was a turn off for established players.
Me and some game store owners in my city started playing magic when we were kids/teenagers and I personally organized tourneys and events in the past years on my lgs that gave me no profit at all just to get new players into the game, but kids now prefers what appeals for them like pokemon/yugioh and hearthstone.
I'd like you to share your source about that growing playerbase because honestly I dont see it that way.
I thought the fow gen was dead
There's one up right now.
Kids are no longer the target for MtG like the old days. WotC is now working on that established playerbase and appealing more to young adults/college freshmen and they are doing it just fine.
LGS in your city/country selling less mtg products doesn't mean other game stores are doing poorly.
Weeb game for weebs.
weebshit
It's great, isn't it?
The translation seems godawful.
This is true. The art is bland and dull as fuck and it's all digital.
If a weeb like me who watches anime and reads manga finds it uninteresting then it's really shitty.
Seems to me like the target are those godforsaken retarded weebs who watch only seasonal anime and read hot garbage manga like moster girls and all that crap.
Are there card games these days whose art isn't digital?
A game with interesting mechanics but with inconsistent artstyle.
I really like some ilustrations but most of them looks like weeb shit I'd never show to my friends.
Standard is a shit format so its your fault for buying the recent sets.
just out of curiosity, what's the FoW's age range in your LGS?
That's exactly why I hate playing card games.
It doesn't matter if it's foil if the art is digital crap. It doesn't make you want to collect it at all.
That's also why I laugh at the idea of collecting recent Magic.
>FoW looks fine if not generic in most places. What you expect from anime fantasy
Spoken like someone who doesn't know the medium. FoW looks extremely generic, not just generic. Even the most shitty anime will have better promotional art.
how the fuck do you have a third side to a card?
The translation for everything FoW-related is pretty bad. Reading the flavor text or short stories feels like they were copied and pasted from google translate.
Why would anyone in 2017 buy a fucking card game in Italian? Buy it in English.
Flips open. It's a pain to sleeve and un-sleeve because of its thickness when folded.
Not like you'll ever get to use the third side anyway unless you somehow stall that long.
>three sided card with extra thickness
wtf, not even mtg has jumped the shark so hard ( was close with doublesided.
That does sound like a nightmare. Just print a second card at that point, and give them an ability that pairs them.
Rulers are separate from your deck, so it works out in the end. FoW is still nowhere near as crazy as duel masters.
Duel Masters has taken it a bit further. This is a single card.
Is there a reason that card can't fit on one side though? The size is just to look big, yeah?
Pretty much. It does give room to place the Seals on it, though.
I don't think that FoW is any more generic than other games, and having digital art is standard for all card games these days. I would say that it is colorful and serviceable enough, though some people understandably don't like the anime aesthetics.
>this isn't even my final form!
First a low standard in the tcg sector is not a justification and I couldn't give less shit about other games, second I said I'm a huge manga and anime fan (not the kind that has seen 20 anime) and the art still looks like shit to me.
For a while FoW was poking along with 6-10 regulars at my LGS. I decided to try it, liked it, started playing it.
Very, very quickly I learned that the regular playerbase were extremely bad. Like, beating them with random shit I threw together bad. None of them wanted to play against me because they had no desire to improve their game. Not the best experience, especially as I'm a competitive player; while I do enjoy brewing and making janky decks, I play because it's a competition. When one side is fucking clueless, it stops being a competition.
So, they stopped showing up to the LGS and then FoW completely and utterly died there, even after the owner ran a no-cost promotional thing with some prizes - which was surprising, considering he's a turbojew.
The only group I've been able to find that plays it is a 45 minute drive away and they play on Sundays at a fucking restaurant.
In short, it can be very difficult to find people to play with.
At Gencon, the FoW booth was sad and empty, trying to advertise their new card games instead of on existing product. Even then, promotional and marketing material was no where to be seen. You only discovered there was something being displayed there if you stopped to talk to someone.
Their website is a travesty and still packed with Engrish.
The English community manager is a fool and often insults the communities he's trying to reach out to. It's also stupid to have one guy in that position for the entire fucking North American market.
FoWCo does nothing to stop distributors, like Potomac, from selling boxes two or three dollars above wholesale. This kills the LGS not just on the retail level, but it means only a handful of places can afford to sell singles.
In short, FoW is, at its core, a decent game with potential, but they're absolute shit at marketing and their business management is poor. To put it even more shortly, they're a very Japanese company and it's the biggest hindrance to the growth of the game.
If you are concerned that it doesn't look like your favorite anime and manga then I can't help you there, but I am glad that you agree that it isn't below the standard of other card games.
Couldn't give less of a shit for the actual game but the art is great.
>lolis and cheesecake everywhere
>all sorts of mecha bootlegs
Why would you care about the standard? I care about getting a good product.
It's not bad because it doesn't look like my favourite anime, it's bad because the art is simply bad.
I care because I play MTG as well as Pokemon, along with this game. If you want to compare the art to anime and manga then more power to you, but you are otherwise comparing apples and oranges when other card games are the closest equivalent.
What you're saying doesn't make any sense. Why are you playing not one but three games that you think are subpar? And why are you happy that they everyone is subpar like the others? How is that a good thing?
Because card games have their own standard of quality. I don't see any merit in comparing them to anime and manga. You may as well compare card game art to actual paintings and complain that card games are all low quality as a result.
I don't compare them to anything in particular, I compare them to any form of art I've come across in my life, obviously.
I do that with everything, why should I make do with whatever I get?
Yes, I compare the art in card games to paintings, as I compare the art in manga to paintings.
The art of Force of Will is shit.
So all card game art as a rule is bad so therefore Force of Will's art is bad? Thank you for being honest, though I admit that it does seem to be out of place in a thread about a specific game.
>Decent but inconsistent art style
>have similar mechanics as MtG
>main story is kinda shit
They really need to improve a lot of stuff. The game has potential and doesnt have too much time in the market so they can get better with time.
They need to
>change that awful font and get better translators.
>get better writter for the story. I've read the story and so far I dont give two shit about the characters.
>Be consistent with their artstyle. I see a mixture of styles (mostly anime style like here ). Pick one and focus on it.
They did change the font with the current set though. You are right about the translations though. The flavor text really lacks impact due to a lot being lost in translation. The flavor text at the very least isn't made of huge reams of text, so it shouldn't be hard. And I definitely want to see them focus on their better artists rather than have the art style vary as you mentioned. A couple of the artists they should just drop in favor of commissioning more art from their better artists IMO.
I am not from US(proud italian), but I honestly dont see FoW doing it fine in burgerland or at least in Florida where I usually go on my vacations. I've been in some LGS there and the owners only sell some old products from it and nothing else.
They really need to drop their fan fiction story and write a new one. Art style are not bad, but not great either and fucking hire better translators. If they want to reach weebs westeners, at least write the card text properly.
Story and all that can come later. They have no marketing. You see advertisements for MtG everywhere. Yugioh has an anime. Pokemon is Pokemon.
FoWCo needs to dump a lot more money into marketing and community relations/outreach. They need to unify their presentation and get a website that doesn't look like a geocities webpage from 1997.
Once they get a firmer markethold they can can their deviant art-tier story and get something better, but honestly, very few people play card games for the story.
There is the upcoming FoW anime, so hopefully it will help.
It has a pretty active scene near me. The new rotation has helped quite a bit, and you of course have the default audience of Asian dudes and weaboos who will probably play the game no matter what.
>as a rule
Uh? Don't warp my words. They are bad because they're objectively bad. They can be good, obviously. MTG was good.
Hey amico, next time you go on vacation in Florida go visit Rudy and take a picture and post it here. And bring him my regards.
By that logic manga art is shit because it isn't as well illustrated as anything by Rembrandt or Da Vinci.
>MTG was good.
Just because a drawing was made with oil on some canvas doesn't make it good.
They seem to have gotten better in that department in more recent sets.
I tested it a month ago and It's a good game but the art style kills it a little for me.
MtG will never die because WotC knows their target demographic. They did focus on kids on their first decade to build their playerbase. They keep those kids who are now grown ups working young adults or college students and keep targeting that public. They dont need to worry about new players because the established playerbase teach kids how to play. The have also have the DotP games and pre releases for that.
Jesuscrist I just saw their website and its attrocious. How can a company in the year 2k+17 have a shitty website.
MtG player here
To be fair, some of the first MtG art on early cards were fucking horrible.
FoW artstyle is not horrible, but generic as hell and that is a problem with recent sets in MtG as well.
FoW have a decent amount of players in US and Europe and I dont deny it can be big, but for fucksake, they need to work a lot on their translations.
They need to work on a lot of things.
And yes, a lot of the art in FoW is of the 'generic anime' type. Nothing sets it apart, there's no unifying themes or style.
A couple cards look decent, but overall, it's meh from an art standpoint. From 'cute girls on cards,' however, it's about the best thing you can get.
Who said it isn't? Who said all manga is good? The majority of it is trash. Who said everything must be the top? It can also be decent.
Also art isn't vertical, qualitywise, it's both vertical and horizontal.
Again, Force of Will art is simply bad.
I went to his card shop a couple of times. He's a nice guy and know a lot about stuff. He showed some guys and me a sealed alpha mtg deck once and gave us a nice advice that if possible, we'd buy commander products whenever we can.
>To be fair, some of the first MtG art on early cards were fucking horrible.
Wrong, some of it was technically bad but the passion and the way that expressed in the art made it decent and very interesting. People got into the game also for the art.
>FoW artstyle is not horrible, but generic as hell and that is a problem with recent sets in MtG as well.
Exactly.
Never said that.
The only reason why I got into Magic again was him. Rudy è una cazzo di bestia. Strano che non ti abbia detto per la millesima volta di investire nella reserved list hahahaha.
Good/Bad is subjective.
I know some people who love the art from the old Terror card and spit on the one from Tenth Edition and there are others who'll say the old art of Terror is horrible as fuck and prefer the one from Tenth Edition.
I prefer to compare FoW art by seeing if its generic or not.
>some of it was technically bad but the passion and the way that expressed in the art made it decent and very interesting
Wow what a pretentious fart you are.
And how do you know those artists painted with passion instead or painting just to earn their paycheck? Did you ask to them?
I met Rudy and inmediately hated the guy. Asshole couldn't shut the fuck up about investing on cardgames.
>Good/Bad is subjective.
No. Only partially.
You're talking about personal taste. Personal taste or estrinsecal monetary value don't change the intrinsecal quality. Do you know how many celebrated artists died, and lived, in poverty? Just because no one recognizes the qualities of something it doesn't mean that thing doesn't have those qualities. A tree still falls in the forest even if no one is there to testimony.
>Asshole couldn't shut the fuck up about investing on cardgames
Strange, his entire existence revolves around that and you probably talked to him about the channel on Magic investments he runs. Truly, what an asshole.
I know because that's what the art is good even though it's technically insufficient. Take Mark Poole, for example.
Better than being a retard.