/wmg/ Warmachine/Hordes General

I enjoyed the shitposting here

Finally a fucking thread.

How much shit will I get for starting with Legion? I kinda started with them like 5 years ago, but the game never took off. However, we have some chatter here now, so maybe. I lost/sold most of my old stuff, so I'm basically starting fresh. I have Abby and Lylyth1 and maybe the rest of the OG metal starter if the peices are there. I'd obviously get the new battlebox, but I'd always want to get Abby2 because she looks cool and Abby has always been my favorite legion character. I want Bethayne, too, but I remember her being very build around.

Anyway, any help here? I'm basically a total noob, but I remember getting shit in the past because of Legion.

abby2 is really good, and Fyanna2. The flying beasts are really hot right now, like the Neraph and Angelius. The Throne of Everblight is pretty hot these days too, but I wouldn't make a big buy like that when you're just starting out. You'll want to pick up a couple Forsaken and Shepherds too.

Does anyone have rule 34 about Khador jacks?

What makes her good? I have no frame of reference for the numbers, though her spells and feat do seem pretty sweet. I'd imagine flying things would usually be good, and I had an Angelius once upon a time, though I think it's all pieces now at best. I think I do have one shepherd and forsaken. How are the lesser beasts? I think I have handful of Shredders and a couple stingers.

>I heard Severius kicked the bucket in that book
Severius3 Cryx caster when?

>Does anyone have rule 34 about Khador jacks?
I mean, they're already all naked, user. Except for Ruin, of course. What more do you want?

I want smokestacks in places where the sun don't shine

DED GAEM M8s.

>I have no frame of reference for the numbers, though her spells and feat do seem pretty sweet.
If you're at the point of "this game looks neat, let me check it out", then don't worry about power level of factions / units, for the reasons discussed in the previous thread, at and .
Just pick based on what you think seems cool and generally has a playstyle that "feels" right to you. That's the best you can do. You need to shake that 40K mindset where there's an "Army Of The Month" that you HAVE to be playing. A big part of what pulls people into WMH is that it's specifically NOT that.

The game isn't perfectly balanced, far from it, but it is well balanced. Compared to the ridiculously low bar for game balance set by companies like GW and Fantasy Flight, we may as well be discussing whether the first turn advantage in Go should be weighted at -6.5 or -7.5.

The point is, as a new player, the balance of the game isn't something you need to worry about. You're going to win or lose (and lose, and lose, and lose) on the strength of your skill alone. Same goes as an intermediate player. I can almost promise you that, if you put in enough practice, you can beat every (or almost every) local player in your area with the worst faction, the unplayable trash caster, the useless unit, whatever.

When you're an expert player, one of the best in your country or the world, going up against other players in the same class, and every fraction of a percent of an edge counts, THEN the balance of the game is something you'll need to think about. But by that point it's probably next edition anyway, and you're on your third faction or something, so fuck it.

Ok, that makes sense, and is a bit of a relief I guess. I've been a long time 40k player because the people here literally can not sucking GW's cock, and while 8th is step in the right direction, something about it still bothers me that I can't put my do get on. Maybe I'm just burnt out, but I have no motivation to build or paint anything I have despite getting this huge surge when 8th dropped. I think it might be that there are very obvious power gaps and power creep, even in the short few month the edition has been alive. I could go on a huge rant about my problems with the current affairs of 40k, so I'll just stop.

So with WMH, you can pretty much pick whatever and be good?

No.

So, the overall balance, faction to faction of the game is good. However, internal balance is kind of shit, but let's talk warlocks/warcasters.

So the deal here is that certain units are very good with certain casters, but absolutely terrible with others. And certain casters only do certain tactics well, while being terrible at others.

So, the basic gist is that based on your choice of warlock, your warbeast and unit choices will also be pretty specific to that one, or at least, you'll have a more specific range of models to choose from rather than all of them.

To give an example, from Skorne, Venerator Reivers, the Skorne ranged unit, really like any warlock with an armor debuff or some other trick to support ranged models. But models that don't support that unit mean they're kind of rubbish. They're not entirely worthless, but they're most certainly not going to be as good with, say, Xerxis1 as they are with Rasheth.

If you can, I'd hop in the discord to ask some more specific questions about what you want to play and how to go about building it.

>tfw Slingers with Jalaam
Muh dick.

Don't have a PDF, but it was a pretty good book starring quite possibly the one genuinely good person in the entirety of the Protectorate. There are a few parts where they really try to rub "HEY THIS IS BASED ON A GAME AND EVERYTHING HAS A VERY SPECIFIC NAME!" in your face but it's not too distracting.
And Sevvy dying happens pretty close to the beginning so it's not much of a spoiler either. It was a pretty epic scene too.

While we're on the subject, what are some other good novels featuring the Protectorate, Circle Orboros, or Convergence of Cyriss?

Is it too early for anything about any Grymkin novels?

>No.
Oh
>So, the overall balance, faction to faction of the game is good. However, internal balance is kind of shit, but let's talk warlocks/warcasters.
Ok. Hrm.

>So the deal here is that certain units are very good with certain casters, but absolutely terrible with others. And certain casters only do certain tactics well, while being terrible at others.
That makes sense.

>So, the basic gist is that based on your choice of warlock, your warbeast and unit choices will also be pretty specific to that one, or at least, you'll have a more specific range of models to choose from rather than all of them.
That makes more sense. There's expected synergy, rather than "THIS IS CLEARLY THE BEST ALWAYS" as 40k tends to be.
>If you can, I'd hop in the discord to ask some more specific questions about what you want to play and how to go about building it.

I might do just that. Thanks.

These threads got really terrible over the past year with people who quit the game shitposting to get others to confirm their decision. Seems they got tired of it though and we are recovering.

Alright this is technically not warmachine but I can't get out of my head that this is a rule 63 of this guy. I don't even know why I remembered this movie.

I thought that the Skorne book was supposed to be out soon, but warroom has disappointed me.

New shit when?

We know 100% of what's in the Skorne book, if you're thinking there's going to be any spoilers.

nope.

it's still shit

at least wmh general is no longer the worst wmh community anymore.

>the discord
Is it still as terrible as it was half a year ago?

Godless: www32.zippyshare.com/v/KSexQo5d/file.html

Well alrighty. Back to my 8th edition then

>So with WMH, you can pretty much pick whatever and be good?
My point was really that winning in WMH is 95% about you and your development as a player, and 5% about your list selection. If you're brand new, then your skill portion of that is 0/10 right now. Nothing you can do in the 5% is going to make up for not having the rest. So focus on that first, before worrying about the small incremental advantages you can get by putting a ton of time into faction and lists. For the purpose of getting good, it doesn't really matter that much what faction you choose, except that YOU like it. Because that's what will keep you playing, and playing a ton of games is the only way to improve.

>However, internal balance is kind of shit
See, thing is, that's mostly just internet hyperbole though. The internal balance is shit COMPARED to the high bar PP has set for themselves. The game is in a bit of a state of flux right now, as we all know. It's still more balanced than something like 40K has been at any point in its life.

Because here's the thing - I can take the absolute worst casters available to me... let's say, Mohsar and Grayle, and still whip most of the people at my local shop. Just because I've been playing a long time, and I get a lot of practice. Hell, look at worldwide tourney results, a lot of the best players will show up and win with things that are considered "unplayable trash" up to that point.

>To give an example, from Skorne, Venerator Reivers
Your own example gives the lie to your claim, since it's out of date - skorne players are playing reivers competitively right now, in Winds of Death.

>the one genuinely good person in the entirety of the Protectorate
Feora?

Kreoss or Tristan

thanks, clambabe.

>quite possibly the one genuinely good person in the entirety of the Protectorate.
b..but.. muh Vilmon. Bb.b..but muh Kreoss

Who is Vindictus...

>Your own example gives the lie to your claim, since it's out of date - skorne players are playing reivers competitively right now, in Winds of Death.

user was more nuanced than that- Venators with a debuff caster a lot better than Venators with a melee buff caster. Winds of Death lists are still liable to be Raseth and his ilk.

Can I has sauce for the OP?

Yeah, you're right, my response wasn't totally fair on that front. And I do generally agree with his second assertion, which basically boils down to "you're going to be buying two distinct lists relatively early". So apologies on that point.

I'd still advise new players to stay away from the powergaming mindset, though. I just don't think it's that helpful when you're new. You're going to lose, a hell of a lot, no matter what you're playing. And when it finally clicks, and you start winning, it's not going to be because of your list.

Anybody know what this thing is?

It was part of the "12 Days of Xmas" model previews, but I can't recall having seen any model rules that seem to go with it. IIRC there wasn't a new heavy in the Northkin CID either.

A dire troll with reach. You heard right.

It was added to Northkin in mid-cycle.

About to start an IKRPG soon but only with 2 players plus me as DM.
Both players only know about IK setting from their Grymkin and Ios armies.
So far their PCs are some kind of Satyxis Necromancer and a Trollkyn Fell Caller.
Probably start them in Five Fingers so they can do pirate or sewer missions with all the steampunk trenchcoat goggle world descriptions.
Has anyone actually played the RPG, with advice on how many enemies I should have them fight since there is only two of them?
Pic vaguely related.

Dire Troll chassis, two P+S: 17 chain weapons with reach, Ornery animus, 16 pts

>It was added to Northkin in mid-cycle
No shit. Anybody have a pdf of the CID rules? I have to start dojoing this thing RIGHT THIS SECOND.

New cryx theme list for jacks
+2" deployment
one free light per 30 pts of jacks
Carapace for every heavy (!!!)

Hmmmm.

Cryx is so broken.

Ah, PP. Measure once, cut twice yet again. And so Cryx vulnerable to gunlines eventually turns into Cryx invincible to gunlines.

>not entirely serious
>not entirely

This seems like a questionable idea

>Carapace for every heavy (!!!)

>Just finished painting my seventh Helljack
>This news drops

Feels pretty fuckin' fantastic.

Carapace does seem super heavy handed. Flip side is it maybe does actually require that much of a bump to make Cryx all-jack lists viable. Even with the price cuts, their heavies are pretty terrible, bar a few specific exceptions / caster interactions. Looking forward to bringing back Morty1 with this list. Actually, maybe just looking forward to running tables with DJ, like in The Good Old Days.

There is a little apparent anti-synergy there, actually. If all the heavies have carapace, then the few free lights you get are going to be the only viable target for enemy guns... meaning they won't be around long. I wonder if the interaction between those two rules is intended as a spam countermeasure? Give you a reason to bring a balance of heavies and lights? Hmm.

Anyway, it will get vetted in CID.

Or, the only free lights you take are stalkers, so the enemy can't show them.

>then the few free lights you get are going to be the only viable target for enemy guns... meaning they won't be around long

You're probably getting them for free, though. So if they're Nodes, you just need them to survive long enough to get your offensive upkeeps in place. Once that happens, it doesn't really matter if they die.

>the only free lights you take are stalkers

Stalkers are 8 points, so you can't take them for free.

>Or, the only free lights you take are stalkers
No free stalkers or defilers unfortunately. Birdies or Ripjaws are the most likely picks

>Once that happens, it doesn't really matter if they die.
If they're the only models that can be shot, they're not even lasting that long.

Well, I think this list is going to be the basis of the official Ghost Fleet hard counter:

Aikos2 in theme (+29)
- Kharybdis 19
- Desecrator 14
- Desecrator 14
- Desecrator 14
- Desecrator 14
- Inflictor 13
- Harrower 16
- Scavenger 0
- Ripjaw 0
- Nightwretch 0

Feat first turn, with the theme benefits you can get the scathers foreward of their scenario elements on T1, and they can't shoot you back (even a Denny counterfeat won't do that much with carapace). If most of their army is single wound, you can just lock them out of the zones for the entire game.

That's nice, but when are they gonna fix the game so you don't need to play a theme list to be competitive? And when are they gonna bring back power attacks?

Oh hey it's you
Why are you still here? Eternal butthurt?

To agree with Anyway I have the answer as "wait 6 more years." Wait for new edition and hope that they haven't gone under by then

Mk3 Skorne Command

www43.zippyshare.com/v/XQ1efLPi/file.html

Thanks!

Thank you very much kind user!

... What drunk wrote this?

This is some legit shill advice I mean dude is comparing Go and WMH, if that doesn't ring the alarm bells then nothing does. Factions with best themes of the month take games, it's not much about skill.

I remember the days when the game took skill.

those were good days

Would probably be better with Agathia desu.
conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0Uf_3c3c3c3cd-d-1e1e0t2n2nf02B2B

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Black Industries (Pre-release)

!!! You are using a pre-release theme.

(Agathia 1) Bane Witch Agathia [+29]
- Desecrator [14]
- Desecrator [14]
- Desecrator [14]
- Desecrator [14]
- Inflictor [13]
- Inflictor [13]
- Ripjaw [0(7)]
- Ripjaw [0(7)]
- The Withershadow Combine [9]
Necrotech [2]
Necrotech [2]
Soul Trapper [1]
Warwitch Siren [4]
Warwitch Siren [4]
That sweet sweet focus efficiency and an ARM25 shield guard.

>Anyway, it will get vetted in CID.
Yeah maybe in 2020.

Also Kharybdis is pretty garbo and would probably be better as another Inflictor+6 points. Desecrators without Accumulator is also pretty sad.

The shitposters were people that still cared about the game and wanted it not to suck.

That they've all stopped posting is a huge warning sign, since it just means they no longer care, leaving a minimal number of fanboys who will basically lap up whatever they're given and say it tastes like caviar. That's why the discussion here and elsewhere has dropped to basically nil except the same tired old bullshit day after day.

Pretty sure they weren't.

Skorneanon, some of those guys didn't know what they were talking about, but they sure knew they were salty.

OK, it's conceivable that some of them were just here to try and shit on a game to stop others playing... but if they were a majority, I'll eat my own organs. The complainers largely were fans in MKII.

>The complainers largely were fans in MKII.
No doubt about that. They dropped out in Mk3 though and needed some validation in their choice. I remember one particularly sad individual (not here but on lormahordes) who was posting about how it was his mission to take down WMH. Now that most of these people are gone we can finally recover.

I'm still here. I just can't even care at this point. The game from the top down from the company is a mess to play and there hasn't been a single decision by the company that's made me get 100% agree it was a good idea beyond hiring Pagani.

I just want a new edition. Shit's so bad right now and if the new edition drops and if still bad, at least I'll be able to sell my crap at a higher price.

Bump for novels featuring Menoth, Circle, Convergence, and possibly Grymkin?

CoC has Dark Convergence, but it's really bad.

Sorry, I don't understand. Did you mean to say novels featuring Cygnar? They have those.

Hello trying to get a winter green shade for my Goreshade4 with p3 paints does anyone know what to blend to get this color?

Try looking for 40k paint tutorials of similar miniatures and copy that?

>Factions with best themes of the month take games, it's not much about skill.
Your local must be either uniformly top 1% players or uniformly complete noobs if you think that's the case. Actually take a minute and look at released themes, and then go compare to national tournament results.

Are a lot of people playing theme lists in high level competition? Of course they are. Is the "Theme Of The Month" winning regularly? Not really.

>Anyway, it will get vetted in CID.
>Yeah maybe in 2020.
IIRC the new batch are going into CID in the next cycle to start after they release. Not a terrible idea, because if one of them is busted they're going to get the CID flooded with test data almost immediately.

>That's nice, but when are they gonna fix the game so you don't need to play a theme list to be competitive?
The more likely solutions at this point are:
(a) the game gets chopped into two formats effectively, a All Themes champions-style format, and a Legacy format that doesn't allow themes to be used. Or,
(b) there are eventually so many themes for each faction that it's effectively open-list, with the extra element of picking your list bonuses.

>I just want a new edition.
I get where you're coming from, but what would a new edition actually accomplish? The core rules are reasonably solid. Sure, we can talk about power attacks or what-have-you, but that's on the scale of change that can be in an errata. And they've demonstrated they're willing to do complete overhauls of models in CID, if necessary. The game's changed a hell of a lot just in the first year.

IMO if you want a fun, balanced game, and you've got a solidly built core, then incremental iterative changes are the way to get there. When you hit the reset button you're likely to introduce as much new bad as new good.

Anyone else think that themes would work better as categorical bonuses you select for any list?

Category one: For every X0 points of *something* you can take a *related solo* for free. You may only select one kind of *something*.

Category two: *Model type* gets *bonus rule or similar*

Category three: Something not really faction specific, like adding terrain or extra deployment.

I know the whole point of themes having bonuses is because they're supposed to be rewards for restricting your toolset... but that's kinda a shitty non-choice because either the themes are so powerful that not using them is a handicap or they're so shitty that there's no point in restricting yourself for the bonuses. Not to mention that a good theme is going to be playing with a significant points advantage without the restrictions really giving it a corresponding drop in power.

I honestly think that the only thing about themes in need to change are the free points. Nobody would raise a fit about 4 free points, but 12-16 is ridiculous.

Optionally, certain things like Prowl for banez or 8 wound Posse could be an errata rather than a theme.

Bad how? I've got a strong ability to read awful shit. Is it just bad writing, or is the story stupid, or what?

Don't ever mention filthy morrowan teslapunk colonial americans to me ever again.

That's the problem. It changed too much in too short a time. The shit PR and release stuck the knife into the game and the inconsistency that reduced consumer confidence was the twist on that knife.

Right now the troll community is dead waiting for the actual release of their CID stuff.

Consumer confidence needs boosting and people are always ready to put faith in a new edition... for awhile at least

I don't get why free points have to be a thing at all. Instead of the theme giving you 2 rules and a 3rd rule giving you free points, just have the theme give you 3 rules. Instead of the tharn theme giving you free points, corpse tokens, and beasts gain snacking, have it give you the snacking and corpse tokens, and then warbeasts gain treewalker or someshit. If you have to pay real points for your support you wouldn't see those 10 maraduer lists and all that dumb shit.

I'm not sure there is even a circle novel out?. I remember Seacat responding to criticism about how all his novels deal with cygnar and he's like "don't worry guys, I got a merc book in the works too!" And it was about caine lol

What the actual fuck was the point of "Infernal Machines" if Cryx gets a new jack theme force?

actually just wat

Infernal Machines is the mechanithrall theme. You run a Sepulcher, 3 or so squads of Mech thralls, with 3 brutethralls each, necrosurgeons and enjoy. Arguably best under Goreshade2.

>Is it just bad writing, or is the story stupid
Let's be honest, one or both of those is pretty much a given for every PP novel. Anyone who is already willing to read more of them has a tolerance similar to yours.

My Grolar finally arrived and I can play the meme team at last.

>filthy morrowan teslapunk colonial americans
Yeah, the least interesting faction by a country mile, and yet they get all the attention. WTF?

>the main protagonists get all the attention
Really.
You don't say.
Are you also shocked that Space Marines get all of the attention?

Every setting needs its straight man and Cygnar is about as close to normal people as the setting has.

Lists without free points are shit and one of the reasons mk3 start was shit. They need to give free points to non-themes or make 90 the main format without free points.

You say that, but there's plenty of casters that run without lists.

Haley3, for example.