/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Been reading Hunter: The Reckoning lately. What do you guys think about it? It feels a lot different from the rest of cWoD.

It dum

Monster hunters are regular people fighting monsters. If you give them powers they're not regular people.

People with powers are fine, they can even fight monsters. But Reckoning powers aren't built on some deep cultural touchstone like werewolves or vampires. Demon: the Fallen came out around the same time, so you could play either a fallen angel or some hearing voices retardo.

Could magics of other splats be upgraded to work like creative thaumaturgy?

Go read the Blood Sorcery Threnody book.

>we're all mages now
I mean, what's the point? When you get to being able to replicate anything another splat can do with a number and saying "I wished for it", why bother even doing stuff like shapeshifting or pledgecrafting?

Isn't the whole point that without the activation of your powers, you very much an ordinary person? That you aren't picked because your capable or useful or insightful like other supernaturals, but rather your former life as a kindergarten teacher, car salesman, veterinarian or a telemarketer is thrown upside down?

Why play a Hunter instead of a Fallen? Because the game is not about a power trip.

>Hunter is not about superheroic exploits and guns, guns, guns. Sure, it can be, but that’s not the point. This game is about the horror of living a mundane, everyday, blue-collar life and suddenly being confronted with a terrifying, wretched reality: Monsters exist. We are their playthings. Whereas Sgt. Rex Hazzard might bristle with firearms in response to that truth, everyman John Smith must face the same creatures with only his wits, his will and whatever courage he can muster. Hazzard’s story is stupid and boring. That guy isn’t even like us; his life is two dimensional. Smith’s story, though, is plausible, traumatic and intriguing. We can identify with him and play him realistically in a world gone utterly wrong.

I think that's what makes it so different from the rest of cWoD.

If it's not about a power trip, then why do they get powers? Vigil is the game that's really not about a power trip.

But shouldn't Mages just be humans with powers? It would make sense that if most monsters are magical they'd be able to mess as much with it as Mages.
Ah, right, because Mages are supposed to be extra special reality warpers so they can fight literal gods, because anything else would be boring.

Not to mention that a lot of the edges are pretty subtle.

Well, not Vengeance. INSTANT INFINITE ARMOURY.
There are 'regular' hunters, and saying Vigil hunters don't get benefits is mind bogglingly stupid. Half of the use you get from Reckoning 'powers' is through virtue, anyway. That said, the ones who use edges aren't 'normal'. They're visited by the Messengers, actual angels, when they do something fucking impressive to a Supernatural creature.

Because the Imbuing is a decree, a Mission shoved down a normal person's throat whether he wants it or not. It's a Mission that makes most Hunters lose their mind, if they do not die before that. They're barely equipped to handle the job given, and the use of the powers - the only crutch they get - accelerate a Hunter's descent into madness.

It's a game about desperate obligation more than righteous vengeance.

>It's a game about desperate obligation more than righteous vengeance.
Princess the hopeful is literally a better HtR game than HtR

>Vigil hunters don't get benefits
They don't by default. Unlike Reckoning which hands out powers at CC

Are you saying that a Vigil character cannot take endowments at CC?

Princess has the exact opposite approach to H:tR. Reckoning is not about being the hero or doing the Right But Hard Thing just because you can.

It's not an assumption of the setting that every hunter has them. and reckoning PC are assigned powers at CC. I'm sorry the obvious is not something you can easily grasp

It's not an assumption that every hunter has them in Reckoning, either. There are plenty of entirely 'mundane' hunters.

I'm sorry the obvious is not something you can easily grasp

>desperate obligation
Reckoning has messengers
Princess has Queens
Both fight the good but ultimately hopeless fight
Both start going off the deep end the longer the game goes

Not unless Tier 3

uh yes it is. Character creation take 3 virtues and three powers. That's what a Reckoning Hunter has. Try reading the book faggot

Why don't you try reading them, since you're apparently entirely unfamiliar with the setting?

>Both start going off the deep end the longer the game goes
youtube.com/watch?v=dxQR1tXDYkM
>"I'm really stupid."

That's Hunters Hunted, unless you mean Bystanders.

The default starting character is Imbued in H:tR. It's about ordinary people who get the veil pulled from their eyes and they suddenly are aware of the supernaturals going bump in the night where none of their peers are. They're told that they need to save/heal/protect the world by a crazy metaphysical force, and if they don't, they lose their powers and remain stuck in a world full of monsters unable to do anything about it.

Default, sure, like the way vigil's default are going to be people in conspiracies, even if rules are presented for lesser. There are occasional hunter-net posters who are mundane, and organisations like the inquisition. They might trade on true faith, but they've got mundane thugs as well.

Step4 Choose Edges
Kill yourself Faggot

Seconded. Additionally: If you think every person in your setting works according to the logic of some sourcebook, why would you even choose a Urban Mystery setting? What's the Mystery then?

And there's a part of the HTV creation process to determine endowments.

Basically you're assuming that all characters in the entire setting have to conform to character creation rules for player characters in the sourcebook. It's disingenuous. The same logic by which you can go to every priest in D&D and say "OKAY GO CAST HEALING ON ME!". Setting building for absolute beginners. It wouldn't be a problem if you weren't so smug about it.

For conspiracy members only.

And there are references to mundane hunters through the books of htR and other parts of the owod setting. The only difference is that HtV hands them to you up front, but conspiracies are still the 'default' for players, even if AA is out and out the best hunter org.

H:tR is about the Imbued. They have powers, they hear distorted alien messages, they feel like they need to try to understand, destroy or reform monsters. They are normal people who have no protection against the monsters they face, unless they take the gamble of using their powers. Succeed several times a row, and you become a stronger Hunter and start losing your grip on your sanity and your humanity. Fail without dying and risk losing the little power that has been protecting you from the supernatural.

Conspiracies are not the default, just an option. Most Vigil organizations are not Conspiracies. Reckoning is specifically about powered hunters.

Here's what that guy you were arguing with was saying:

Not every NPC who gets involved with fighting the paranormal neccessarily gets the PC template pushed on them at that time. When a biker loses his brother to a Vampire while he is forced to watch, it doesn't give him special powers. It just potentially makes him mad enough to go out of his way to help you and others who are fighting this shit. And at this point he might become a member of the Hunter community of his area, but the GM doesn't have to give him cool powers.

Additionally, if literally everyone who decides to hunt monsters gets special super powers, it just serves to make the standard Hunter PCs less special.

The brother - and most mortal hunters - choose to fight the monsters. Imbued do not. That's a big difference, and a huge part of H:tR. It's a game that is about more than being a monster hunter, it's about being infused with a broken shard of divine power that compels you into action against your better judgment. Many Imbued try to hold on to their lives, but many can't. The Mission becomes too overwhelming.

Yeah but he's still right: Not all Hunters running around in the game have superpowers. Unless you reserve the name for people with superpowers and claim the rest is just useless baggage. But well, that NPC who isn't imbued but just put up a couple million dollars to bankroll your anti-monster OP (because I dunno a Werewolf ate his favourite Koi) does deserve some credit too.

True, but Reckoning still focuses on the Imbued. Ghouls are important in Vampire, but it's still a game about vampires.

H:tR is a very different game from H:tV or Hunters Hunted and deals with different themes and atmosphere. In H:tR your character is more likely going to be a 50-year old nurse with a granddaughter who needs to learn how to shoot a gun because an angel told her so, not a young biker avenging his brother.

Yeah, desu I always preferred the other type because it's what Hunter does best - focus on average humans stepping up to overwhelming odds, instead of just being another "muh snowflake supes chosen one in a world of snowflake supers chosen ones" (this isn't about the powerlevel at all - just about the origin story).

if i am mage i can imagine a sensual tulpa to fuck?

Shit nigga even a nonmage can imagine anything

but make it real nigga
i mean i imagine your mom in my bed AND SHE IS REALLY THERE!

>show bobs an vagene pls

Aren't some HtV characters imbued with powers from higher powers too ?
I seem to recall the Lucifuge have some spoopy special powers, but can't remember where they got those from

They're the children of the devil. There are a few people who gain their powers from Angels, wether GMC Angels or 'higher power' angels. I think there's a promethean endowment somewhere.

I still don't think you need to be a mage to do that

Yes, some. They belong to the biggest Hunter organizations, which are called Conspiracies.

Agreed.

t. Just fucking question-asker mom pro

Evause of you faggots I finally read Awakening after being an Acension homo since high school.

I love the system but I just have one question. You just cast two spells at once now and you can't combine Arcana, right?

In Ascension a fireball is Forces 3 Prime 2 but it seems in Awakening it's Forces 4 only?

You CAN combine Arcana, you just don't have to as often as you had to combine Spheres.

You can cast multiple spells at once at Gnosis 3+, but there are certain targetting restrictions.
So you can cast a spell on someone that enhances Intelligence, while granting them Omnivision.

But you can't juggle a pack of Uratha with one hand, while turning a Vampire into popcorn with the other.

Also yeah, in Ascension that was Force 3, plus the obligatory Prime 2 for "something from nothing".

In Awakening, you're preforming a greater act of direct harmful Magic, which is not acting as a side effect of some other manipulation, so it's the practice of Patterning/Unravelling, at 4 dots.

Oh right, also you only need to combine Arcana when you would by the spell's very nature need both halfs.

e.g.
Turning a Vampire into a Hatrack would require Death 4 (to transform an undead creature) and Matter 4 (to have it end up as inanimate matter).

Thanks for the explanation!

So my genius fans, anyone got any interesting bardos ideas?

Yeah, but it helps preventing you from getting an STD or knocking her up.

Bardos were and still are my least favorite part of Genius. They're an utterly retarded concept.

They should really act as a mania-damper. They're realms of shitty, outdated ideas about the way reality works. Being in them should force you into their ways of thinking, a dangerous prospect, rather than being something beneficial.

They should be avoided. Not embraced.

>What it would mean is that the spells that did manage to get past Withstand ratings that have a base of 5, 6 or 7 would be really weak, and that for Mages below Adept level would be really difficult to attempt and unlikely to succeed.
...that's the point. Apprentices and Disciples can lord over muggles and beings with low power stats (around 1-4). But elders with power stats over 5 are out of their league.

>It would also mean that the spells would almost always have Advanced Duration
...they already are. I never saw a player willing to take -8 for spell to last 30 seconds, instead of spending Reach for it to last one hour for free.

>More over, to get those large dicepools, Mages have to incorporate yantras
Not really. For example, Adept have a minimum dicepool of 8: Arcanum + Gnosis, before any Yantras come up. Master have a minimum dicepool of 10. Apprentices and Disciples wouldn't get large dicepools without multiple Yantras, yes, but that just means that they can't rape elders on the run, without preparation.

>And can't the other splats boost their traits anyway? Even beyond the human maximum?
I don't remember them being able to. Even if they could, how could they know that to boost, reflexively?

I think turning a Changeling would require Fate 4, seeing that is essentially what is filling in the gaps in their being.

>I don't remember them being able to. Even if they could, how could they know that to boost, reflexively?

First and most important thing I would change in crossover is make it so that other supernaturals have a vague idea how they are being fucked with when a spell is cast on them, i.e. they know the Withstand and can spend Willpower/Fuel (if available) to raise it. Everyone except Mages essentially being unable to put up greater Withstand in a pinch is a bit silly.

Although I was always wondering how temporary Resistance boosts interact with long-term spells.
If someone casts a Potency 2 (after regular Withstand) spell on me and I use WP to raise my Withstand, do I cockblock the entire spell or only block its effects for the first Turn (and any other Turns where I spend WP to suppress its effects)?

I don't believe mages get an early warning system. Peripheral mage sight would only let you know of an active magic effect not a spell that's being cast.

You'd need active mage sight or perhaps a prime unveiling spell for passive detection of spell casting.

How can you block an entrance from being a Hedge portal?
Fate and/or space?
Can non-mages do something similar?

Destroy/ban the space around it and hope it doesn't reroute. It probably will.

No, I mean: it's a normal door, only it cannot connect to the hedge.

> How can you block an entrance from being a Hedge portal?
> Fate and/or space?
> Can non-mages do something similar?
Horseshoe on top of it.

I mean above it.

Oh. You probably can't ensure it'll never become one. If it was my game, I'd rule that a space ward or any sort of mystical barrier would require a clash of wills on something appropriate to open it.

Best bet would have your 'no hedge entry' in a single boxy room, with no normal exit, all brushed metal to remove reflections, no windows or real apertures. To exit, do something fucky with Space, or have some sort of 'non door' exit, like a regular wall hooked up to a crane or something.

Would an iron portal block a Gentry from passing true but not a Changeling/human/etc. ?
Would a portal that spray a suspended iron solution work even better?

>They should be avoided.
Just like the Mane that identifies as Ned Ludd?

That is the second worst thing one could find in Genius...the other being proof that Cold Ones and Idigam are the same thing.

I just don't like Hunter with special shiggy powers. I can see a need for immunity against mind controlling powers and some kind of supernatural vision and maybe immunity to delirium. Psy and True Faith are okay as well.

Flaming sword Hunters with magic kung fu are a big turn off. I guess Hunters Hunted is just enough for me.

>so they can fight literal gods, because anything else would be boring.
Correct, that is the natural conclusion of pretty much any free form magic system. It really can't be street level, if the other lines had comparable powers, those possessing them would more or less be incompatible with the normal game play of those lines.

It gets more hate than it should, i mean, i prefer Vigil but Reckoning still has its charm.

>But shouldn't Mages just be humans with powers?
They are. Mages are still human.
>It would make sense that if most monsters are magical they'd be able to mess as much with it as Mages.
Don't the other splats all have their own "magic" types? Werewolf shamans, vampires doing blood magic, etc. I don't really understand your point.
>Ah, right, because Mages are supposed to be extra special reality warpers so they can fight literal gods
They can't fight literal gods. Not unless they become Archmages. Also, define "literal gods" because as far as I know they're really aren't any in CofD. Just beings who are godlike. The Exarchs are the closest to literal gods, and they can't be fought.
>because anything else would be boring.
That's a matter of opinion, really. Mage's signature setting, Boston, has only one plotline that deals with a godlike entity, and you can't fight it directly. DaveB's own actual plays, the guy often called king magefag, are largely street level stories that sometimes deal with bigger things.

Just make the door frame out of iron. Its pretty simple to no sell pretty much everything changelings do with iron.

Fate 3 to force an iris closed. If you want to destroy it completely that's Unmaking i.e. Fate 5.

A changeling could still pop open a new one even if you unmade the old one, it just might not go to the same place. I guess you could extend the duration of the unmaking spell to make it persistent though.

In 2e, Ward with +2 Reach can keep Irises closed as long as the Ward remains in effect. Attempts to open it with a power result in a Clash of Wills. It's between you and your ST to decide if you also need Fate to specifically block a Hedge portal, although you could argue that you wouldn't need it, going by the purview description.

And Scale factor. You could prevent a Hedge gate from being formed for the duration of the spell anywhere within a couple square miles.

As for making it Lasting. That's up to your GM.

>Hunters Hunted is just enough for me

I see you too are a man of refined taste.

Isn't cold iron supposed to be only meteoritic iron ?

no that's stupid.
Cold originally came about during the institution of mining. It's a classical science verse myth in early England days. Requiring it coming from space is needless complication.
Stop tying to buff changelings, changeling fag. get under the table and suck your lord mage's Cock.

>Isn't cold iron supposed to be only meteoritic iron ?

Honestly, it just depends a lot on what people mean by "cold iron", since technically, cold iron is just another term for regular iron, just like "cold hard steel" is just another way of saying... regular steel.

But in some cases, both in WoD or in other settings, people want some form of iron to be "special" before it can hurt changelings, so they say it only applies to "iron that's never been forged" or "iron that HAS been forged", or "only iron from meteors" and shit like that.

Going by the regular definition though, cold iron is just regular worked iron.

>cold iron
The 1e books kinda pin it down more to 'non-forged' iron. So if you hand work it after mining it, or it was heated by a meteor (or you use the smith kith and a willpower dot), it all qualifies as 'cold iron'. Also if you use the reach effect for perfected substances with matter.

That's a pretty fucking arbitrary Arcanum addition.

>my fellow ebonic american

If it's just "non-forged iron", wouldn't you be able to make it with Shaping?

That's just because the guy who suggested it is retarded.

What are some interesting bans for familiars?

A familiar is a type of bond.
What you want, is to find an interesting ban, for a particular type of ephemeral entity.

Okay, fine, spirits, then.

Used condoms, tampons and retainers

Well I had a (Rank 2) Spirit of lucky cats which couldn't take direct harmful action unless it or its interests had suffered some real harm.

Kinda like a "must play with its food" thing.

What about ventilation?

Idea for a Stygian artifact: A leaden coin that uses a combined casting of Shaping and Shrink and Grow to become any kind of tool, weapon, or accessory, etc, up to Size 4. Would I be right in saying that it would cost 5 Merit points/Experiences?