/osr/ - Old School Renaissance

How much damage should a crossbow deal? d10? d12?

How about a giant hammer?

>crossbow
Details, details. This is like asking how much damage a gun should deal without specifying size or propellant.

>giant hammer
You mean a big hammer used by people, a small hammer used by giants, or a big hammer used by giants?

I finished the rough draft of my WASTED based game. Magic mutation alcohol is a replacement for leveling up, and toilet paper is money.

I'd wager that by the times players get near the maximum number of hangovers, they'd be regional players in the game's world. But I'd love some feedback on this, was kind of done on a whim with some new gameplay ideas.

>Details, details. This is like asking how much damage a gun should deal without specifying size or propellant.
Fair point. 1300s, mostly steel, fairly large.
>You mean a big hammer used by people
Yes,
> a small hammer used by giants,
No,
> or a big hammer used by giants?
Also no.

>Fair point. 1300s, mostly steel, fairly large.
2d6, offset by the fact it takes a full minute to reload and weighs a lot.

>You mean a big hammer used by people
>Yes,
2d6 is my default for two-handed weapons used by people.

If you want to make Crossbows only fire once per combat compared to bows, and actually be good, make them deal 1d10 or 1d12 damage, taking a round to reload where bows deal 1d6 and can shoot every round.

Crossbows should do 2d6. Also, if you do stat bonuses, a crossbow could be reasoned to have a str bounus to damage really easily

>, a crossbow could be reasoned to have a str bounus to damage really easily
Really? How so. I'd argue the whole point of a crossbow is that the user's strength is less of a factor.

I was going with 1 every 2 rounds (assuming a highly trained user with proper tools and solid footing).

2d6 seems good, but I'm not sold on the curved damage compared to a flat d12. d12 seems swingier, to represent missed bolts, glancing hits, and the occasional really deadly headshot.

>Really? How so.
You need to wind it up by hand and that takes muscle.

But once wound up, strength is irrelevant to the damage the bolt will cause. You would have to find a way to make STR apply to the reload time instead, and I think that goes into deep detail for the abstracted OSR combat.

>You need to wind it up by hand and that takes muscle.
But... the draw is the same either way, assuming it's fully wound. You might get it wound faster, but that doesn't increase the damage or range.

See that lever? Imagine pulling it really really hard. Does that increase the damage when you then pull the trigger?

Now compare that to a longbow. The whole point of a crossbow is that the user's strength doesn't matter; the bow does the work for you.

How does For Gold & Glory compare to 2e? Any major differences?

Crossbows are machine aided though. The leaver of the trigger mechanism, a goat's foot, or the crank of an arbalest are all there so that strength isn't as crucial as a self bow where how much the wielder can draw.

I can see the rationale but I think you're looking at a specially made crossbow to take advantage of great strength.

Just tried making a character for WHFRPG retroclone Zweihander.

It was okay, but I'm not sure I like the way it handles skills. Limiting skills by Profession just means that you have to wait until Intermediate Rank before you can start investing how you want to instead of how the dice commands. You're basically dependent the DM to come up with a use for you if you happen to roll up a class that doesn't fit the stated goal of the campaign, like a Beggar if the party has been hired to hunt bandits.

No kits.
Much tighter/smaller selection of monsters.
THACO instead of THAC0.

How easy is it to convert original mosters? Can I just grab a 2e book and go?

yep

>a crossbow could be reasoned to have a str bounus to damage really easily
I'd say that it makes more sense to have strength modify "reload" time.

Crossbows were never a great weapon. Put ten trained longbowmen against ten trained crossbowmen, and there's no contest. Longbowmen would win every time.

Crossbows have two advantages: You can use one just fine with minimal training, and you don't need to have good upper-body strength to pull it back.

Looking at it from a game perspective, if something takes longer than a round to load, it's effectively a once-per-fight attack. A player might be willing to spend a single round reloading (though that's a pretty boring turn), but it's extremely unlikely they'd give up 2 or more attacks to reload.

So maybe it makes sense to have a light crossbow with a 1 round reload time (potentially with a rule that you can shoot the same round you reload but only if you're willing to take a sizable penalty since you're rushing the shot: the worse of 2 rolls to hit or maybe just a -4 penalty) and a heavy crossbow that's effectively a once-per-battle thing.

As far as crossbow damage goes, some of that should probably depend on how easy it is to switch out weapons. If you can do it freely without wasting an action, then you wouldn't want crossbows to do much more damage than bows. Otherwise, you'd have a lot of people using them as shoot and drop weapons. So if a bow does 1d6 damage, I'd probably put a light crossbow at 1d8 (and a mere -2 penalty for a snapshot), and a heavy crossbow at 1d10 (or even just 2d4).

You might bump damage up to 1d10 (worse of 2 rolls or -4 for snapshot) for a light crossbow and 1d12 for a heavy crossbow if swapping out weapons is more of issue.

1d6.

Also 1d6.

In WFRP, your initial career wasn't what your character was, but what they did before they went "fuck it, adventure time"

Just read Unholy Land from the Harvey relief trove, and OMG. This is the greatest shit ever. There's Jesus and demons and dinosaurs and it's all almost played straight. If I only had player who would go for this...

Anyone who has played it? How did it go?

There is a point where you can't make the lever longer and you just need to be strong enough to do it.

It would be a specialty quality item but there's no reason you can't have a real strong crossbow for me adventurer. A king wouldn't outfit his army with them because the army is going to have men of average strength in it, so they couldn't use your exceptional crossbows.

Can someone from here redpill me on 1e or 2e D&D? vis a vis newer editions

Here's a hard one for you guys:

What are the flaws of ACKS?

Salamandastron

Some of the racial construction could be better modified for non-humanoid characters like centaurs or lamias.

Some of the rules can be hard to use without a spreadsheet handy.

They're fun. Core 2E is basically just 1E with some rule tweaks and without the "objectional material" like demons, prostitutes, and bare breasts, and even advertised as being compatible with 1E material, until you start adding in the splat books.

The domain math while good and consistent is also really detailed and fiddly, you can't run it on the fly.
The addition of feats/skills is typical mistaking more options for more quality, it doesn't do anything good for play. At best it's methadone for 3.pf players.
Splats are largely negative for the game rather than improving it, shit like extra racial classes and rules for constructing your own are garbage and miss the whole point of having race-as-class (not to mention that the proper course would be to encourage the referee to get a good feel for the system so he can eyeball the power level of new classes, rather than encouraging him to be dependent on necessarily flawed/insufficient math).
The cover is ugly and the name is clunky.

Mostly it's a great game, though, it just needs to be used judiciously.

moldvay or lbb?

(I don't remember if holmes does this)

>How much damage should a crossbow deal? d10? d12?
1d8

>How about a giant hammer?
1d12

>feats/skills

I think all your points are reasonable except for this one. Proficiencies are there to allow character customisation. I think removing the combat focused ones would be a good idea but removing them altogether is not.

Honestly I have no idea any more.

I've been combining rules from pretty much every source imaginable.

Rookie DM here. What are the major differences between LotFP, Swords & Wizardry, and LL? Alternatively, which would you reccomend? I've got a group of four players who are essentially rookies, so I'm just looking for a big standards dungeon crawl. Of the three, which would you guys recomend?

Most OSR games are basically the same. LotFP, S&W or LL doesn't matter. Start playing. You will notice what parts of the system you don't like. Then you check out how other clones do them and steal if you think it will work better.

>LotFP
B/X based
Base AC 12, ascending
Purple prose
No thieves, instead specialists who select skills
Creators are edgy hipsters
Modules all have a gimmick that causes an apocalypse

>S&W
OD&D/proto-AD&D based
Base AC 9 (?), descending
Creator is a grog
Lots of trivia ("did yuo know that X wasn't in the rules? But you can do X now!!!!")
Doesn't have the charm of OD&D (cf. Seven Voyages of Zylarthen)

>LL
B/X based
Base AC 9, descending
Creator is autistic
Mediocre organization
Clerics get spells at 1st level

LL is currently my go-to

fun fact: all architecture ever is non euclidean because it has to translate a series of 2d drawings to 3d space that exists along a globe

"alien" or "magical" would probably be better

IRookies should probably start out playing a version without subclasses, so LL or LotFP. LL is more traditional.

The curvature is slight enough to be irrelevant when it comes to normal architecture. You still have all walls consider the same direction to be "up".

>S&W
>Base AC 9 (?), descending
Or Base AC 10, ascending. It gives you either option (the latter in [brackets]). Personally, I think it makes things a bit junky and hard to reference, but conceptually speaking at least, I approve of the option.

>OD&D/proto-AD&D based
I mean, in the same way that OD&D in general is proto-AD&D. I suppose you could say that S&W Complete in particular is proto AD&D, as AD&D is based on OD&D with all supplements and shit (which is what Complete is), but S&W Core is closer to Basic, and S&W White Box is a streamlined version of brass tacks OD&D (the little brown books), so it's really just proto.

>Single Category Saving Throws
You left this one out, but I feel like it's worth bringing up. See pic.

Excellent.
What
Said. Read a bunch of books, skim them, and go for it. The actual system doesn't matter too much, as you'll end up adapting it anyway. Most games are mongrel hybrids by the end.

>so I'm just looking for a big standards dungeon crawl
What do you mean by this, sorry?

>Alternatively, which would you reccomend?
Adventurer Conqueror King System

S&W White Box only has the original 3 classes* (Cleric, Fighter, and Magic-User with an optional race-as-class elf), while Core adds thieves to the mix. It's only Complete that has a bunch of classes. Essentially, Complete is more complicated than B/X, LL and LotFP, the minimalist White Box is less complicated, and Core swims in roughly the same waters they do.

*Though the White Box Heroes and White Box Companion supplements give you access to more, if you want them.

Is ACKS based on B/X?

I personally think that B/X is the way to go. It's the edition that underlies LotFP and LL, and parallels the material on which S&W core was based. LL is pretty similar to B/X, but I find B/X easier to reference (despite being split across two books), and I figure that if all other things are equal, you might as well go for the original.

As far as LotFP goes, it pushes a specific, gritty horror feel. You aren't restricted to playing that, and it has some cool rule tweaks, but as a rookie, you might want to start with something else.

Not a lot. And after trying them all, use Basic Fantasy RPG. It does everything those games do but better.

Basic Fantasy is about on par with Labyrinth Lord, in my opinion. If you're not a fan of race-as-class but like ascending AC, Basic Fantasy is the obvious choice between the two though.

I think that's exactly why I like it. Allows for race/class separation without being all muddled up as AD&D and I like my ascending AC.

Plus it's free and all those supplements make it so fucking robust.

>Is ACKS based on B/X?
Yes

Thanks!

It doesn't always get things right, in my opinion, (Castles & Crusades is obviously not a 3e clone, just one that uses 3e's d20 mechanic) but this can be helpful:

taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html

Holmes has 1d6 damage across the board, yes. It does also have that super wonky rule where daggers attack twice per round and two-handed weapons only once every other round, making them megashit. (Obviously an editing flub; presumably it was meant to be a simplification of Chainmail weapon length rules, but the part where big weapons get a huge to-hit advantage was removed as beginner-unfriendly)

Controversial opinion I old:

We should encourage the removal of INT, WIS, and CHA and replace them with Magic Apptitude, Resistance, and Attractiveness. It removes the idea of the "characters" intelligence/ego and prevents players from playing a character in a retarded fashion. Thoughts? Feedback?

Attractiveness is only one way to interpret CHA, and only partially at that. That's why the comeliness rules existed. I'm fine with renaming wis, but I'd prefer something like "luck". The int replacement is also fine but it should be one word

>Magic Apptitude
Useless unless you're a caster.

>Resistance
To what?

>Attractiveness
"uh my female elf has 18 attractiveness so she has like h-cup breasts lmao"

All in all, 0/10 would not play.

...

>Attractiveness is only one way to interpret CHA,
That's the intention though. If you want your character to be a charming individual, then you should just be a charming individual. It's part of my controversial opinion that the stats should only interact with the world physically.

>The int replacement is also fine but it should be one word
On sheet it would just be Apptitude, but I wrote Magic to make it a little clearer what the intention for it was.

>Useless unless you're a caster.
So is Int.

>To what?
Magic. That's all a high wisdom really gives you. I KNEW I should have wrote Magic Resistance.

>"uh my female elf has 18 attractiveness so she has like h-cup breasts lmao"
See above.

Yeah, just play b/x, it's just fine. hell, just play moldvay basic, leave x out for a while.

>We should encourage the removal of INT, WIS, and CHA and replace them with
EDU, SAN, and SOC.

So what's /osr/'s verdict on Hot Springs Island?

>Such short list
Get a load of this pleb

>1d4chan.org/wiki/Approved_movies

Never heard of it. Is this in the trove?

Sigh...

1d4chan.org/wiki/Category:Approved_Media
There is literature with decent picks, movies with great and steadily growing list, decent series picks (too much cartoons for my taste, but go figure) and even the vidya and animu selection isn't half that bad.

Not yet, I think, but it was shared in the PDF share thread.

>TTGL
>no Getter or Mazinger
shit taste as usual, I see

I didn't see Dungeon Meshi at first and was going to get upset.

Seriously, people, read dungeon meshi. It's great, and I still always crack up at the dwarf's face.

Definitely not. Goes against me entire opinion. What's the point!

Re Hot Springs Island. I got it in the Harvey relief trove.

It has received a lot of praise but I'm not that impressed.

* The power level is a lot higher than OSR. There is lots of magic and elementals and stuff. It feels very much like a D&D 5e adventure.

* There isn't that many good ideas to steal. There are elementals that do elemental stuff. There are lizardmen who do lizardmen stuff. There are elves who got corrupted by drugs and sex so their civilization got destroyed in a big cataclysm and now they are evil. Meh. I've seen it before.

* I don't like the big NPC:s and their superplot. Like, all the powerful spirits are basically modern characters. There's one guy who stumbled on the island while on his way to a cool, interdimensional party and now runs a cult there because his cool jacket was ruined. I see what the writer is trying to do but it doesn't work for me.

* The whole subplot with the mermaids that are basicly sex-slaves is to rapey for me. But I didn't like the BitC pygme-rape and I'm squishy for "and I must scream"-style forever-torture, so that's highly personal. YMMV.

* On the plus side: There are a lot of magic items, most of which are good. The art is great. I don't notice the layout which means its fantastic. The dungeon have "what going on right now"-tables which is a great idea, and the writers dare to put really game-changing stuff in them.

...

>Thoughts? Feedback?
I get at least in principle why you want to get rid of the two abilities that potentially contradict the player being a retard and making decisions like a retard, but Charisma is literally about your martial leadership qualities. I don't see how that's less disconnected from the player than Strength or Attractiveness. Plus it's much more relevant to exploring dungeons and leading armies than cowtits are. Resistance is covered by saves and Magic Aptitude is much more potentially punishing to a caster than a low primary ability score is in Basic or OD&D.

All in all, if I wanted to remove the two "good sense and judgment" abilities I'd very seriously consider whether I should replace them with anything at all; there's no natural law that says there have to be six. And I'd ever remove Charisma, except situationally to imply some type of character was unable to lead others in battle.

>I get at least in principle why you want to get rid of the two abilities that potentially contradict the player being a retard and making decisions like a retard
While that's part of it, I really want to remove the stats that are vague and poorly defined ideologies and replace them instead with physical representations. Charisma literally being about martial leadership qualities is exactly the sort of thing I wish to remove. If you want your character to be a leader, then have him be a leader. What I want is for the player to be MORE connected to this character, like they're the driver in the seat of a humanoid-shape car.

>Resistance is covered by saves
Wisdom in OSR in most games only affects saving throws, and the same thing goes for Intelligence barely affecting anything other than being a requirement to be an elf or magic user.

I am of the mind of just removing it, but then that would leave a weird gap I think. It would either make a martial-only world which I oppose, or it would lead Magic to being some skill system which I think would drastically change the feel of the game entirely.

Charisma could easily go, but I think attractiveness does affect reactions, and I like that part of the OSR.

If you want to add something to the list - do so. It's not like they are closed or something. There is a guy who spend entire summer working on the movie list and it's pretty impressive right now.

Gold as always.

>Land of Tomorrow. Zombie in turban and zombie in Jew hat being baptized

>read dungeon meshi
If you want to eat monsters, here's where to start:
coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/08/monster-menu-all-part-1-ad-monster.html

occultesque.com/2017/07/eating-good-in-dungeonhood.html

thebardicchef.blogspot.ca/

Dungeon Meshi was there, I just skipped over it and felt like mangaposting.

I really like a lot of the Japanese D&D stuff that developed off od&d/basic and the wizardry games and so on. Not the lolishit half of it ended up as, but the solid dungeon crawling stuff with classic dwarves and elves with big ears and adorable halflings that'll stab you in the back and steal your shit if you leave them unattended, but you kind of need one to deal with traps.

almost makes me not hate the thief class.

>1d4chan.org/wiki/Category:Approved_Media
>Veeky Forums media should have a connection to Veeky Forums somehow
>Should NOT be /a/'s flavor of the month rolling over
>Entire first 20 items on the list are /a/'s flavor of the month such as TTGL and JoJo
Nah. Fuck this list.

I agree with it, though I usually replace 'Intelligence' with 'Education' or Knowledge instead, so it can be used with languages.

It helps avoid the problems of players thinking they aren't allowed to make a smart plan because they're playing a dumb barbarian, or doesn't let the player think that just because they have a high charisma they don't have to actually explain or think of what they are saying.

>ttgl
>jojo
>flavor of the month
If you don't like them that's fine but those are shows that've had a fanbase in /a/ for over a decade

>pic
really fires up my nuttarinis fampai

The JoJo anime has not had a fanbase for a decade.

>JoJo
>Flavor of the month
You are trying too hard, user. Especially since there is a rulling for the list that basically forbids from adding anything new, precisely to avoid "flavour of the season" effect.

New as in "fresh", not "new thing on the list"

Appendix N (Gonzo Weeb Edition):
Ozanari Dungeon
Nausicaa
Leda: The Fantastic Adventure of Yohko
Dimension Hunter Fandora
Panzer World Galient
Aura Battler Dunbine
NG Knight Ramune & 40

inb4 I'm never allowed to post in these threads ever again

The bonus languages from intelligence are nothing to sneeze at--being able to talk to monsters or read strange runes definitely gives you that feel of being "the guy who knows stuff".

I generally don't like doing ability checks for mental/social attacks (ie, roll CHA to seduce, roll INT to see if you can solve the riddle). But I guess that's another application.

>T-t-there not /a/ flavors of the month! Fans still exist!
Yeah, but nobody talks about them very much. Jojo meming aside, there hasn't been a thread about either of these shows for months.
>Especially since there is a rulling for the list that basically forbids from adding anything new, precisely to avoid "flavour of the season" effect.
Which is what makes it all the more hypocritical.

Okay, what is the minmum I have to read to understand eunough to GM in AD&D? Never played it before and job keeps me kinda busy, so I would like to keep it simple.

We will be playing Dark Sun. How does starting at 3rd level work? You simply create 1st lvl character and advance it two levels?

The PHB, the DMG, the MC/MM intro, the mechanical info of the splats you will be using.