Shit PCs thread

Well. If you're feeling a little petty, you could continuously throw their characters into the meatgrinder just to get some amusement out of them constantly dying

This is the part where I make excuses about him being my best and most steadfast friend I've ever had (which he is). And then everyone calls me a faggot or something.

I know you're right. Being honest about how much this stuff bothers me is best. I'm starting a new game in two weeks, and this cycle just ended with him finally settling on a character concept. But if he pulls this crap cheap one more time, in this game or the next, we're going to have a serious discussion about this crap cheap and possibly his future attendance at my games.

Some people think that playing shitty, useless characters that shouldn't be on an adventure means they're good roleplayers somehow.

Just tell him that you are 100% sure he will enjoy it more if he plays within setting as designed.

Please fucking don't. My best and most steadfast friend is the biggest source of my DMing despair.
>make a game for a bunch of newbies
>I try to explain how it goes, he's along to shine as a player example
>we're playing WFRP2
>it's the most popular system here and I figure random rolling a class is an interesting enough feature for new players
>the guy goes like HAHA I WILL ROLL FOR EVERYTHING
>uh no please don't, I know there's tables for it
>I WILL ROLL FOR EVERYTHING
>I don't want you to.
>BUT THERE ARE RULES FOR IT
>soon he takes over the whole thing and everyone is like "come on it's gonna be so funny to roll for eye color"
>I sit for 2 hours defeated and not engaged because all of them are making rolls for everything in the manual
>including names
>he ends up being a Halfling Outlaw named Pol
>when we go into the game he only says "Pol"
>dude, what the fuck are you doing
>oh, it's just my cool and subversive character concept. he only ever says his name.
>yes, his entire manner of interacting with anything is a running gag
>when he walks into a town he is not only a retard who says "Pol?" to everything, but when the guards are questioning his very obvious "Outlaw" status, he says this:
>"oh, my character has actually recently been pardoned by the emperor, here's a letter I've been carrying on my person the whole time and that I never discussed or disclosed, because, you know, we were rolling for number of siblings instead
>THEN WHY ARE YOU A FUCKING OUTLAW AND WHY ARE YOU
>wow, man, way to ruin my character concept.

I didn't have fun.
The group thought it was kinda too stupid and now we just play board games.

Then, another day, we decided to play D&D 4e, I wanted to try it out. I explained that we're going sorta "meta" into this and that each of the four roles is kinda "gamey", so they should discuss their team composition and roll their concepts around that; we haven't done this kinda thing before (and ended up with stuff like 3 repairmen 1 pilot on a ship in Star Wars).
>we start the game with an escape/chase sequence where they're supposed to run for their lives in a thick jungle
>he immediately tries his best to separate himself from the rest of the group even though I deliberately made the encounter look like a desperate, "you won't survive on your own" situation
>he goes "oh yeah, we're not REALLY roleplaying, it's just one of those D&D conventions where we're immediately a full party, so I will play along" like he's some fucking snobby patrician of taste
>I just didn't want a tavern start okay
>his character is a Dwarf
>he yells over my descriptions of anything that ever happens by saying I HIT IT or BEER
>after going through a jungle pursued by bounty hunters they enter a town where they believe they can take a breather
>and here I am having this really-cool-in-my-head-setup where the town is actually inhabitted by ghosts of the townsfolk who died a long time ago and whose spirits are locked in a forever-night-out in the bar and they're supposed to notice something eerie with every single step they take
>I tell them all of those little details and I'm trying really hard to get into the description
>IS THERE A TAVERN
>yeah I'm getting to it
>BEER I WANT BEER
>no, dude, please, let me talk
>I GO INTO TAVERN AND WANT BEER
>you are going to the tavern, yes, you open the door and you see--
>I WALK UP AND ASK FOR BEER
>no but
>DID HE GIVE ME BEER?
>resign
>"he places a mug"
>I DRINK FROM IT
>"your hand passed through it"
>??? BEER
>can you LET ME SPEAK
>get bummed out
>entire mystery feels gone
>hate myself

Don't let a "friend" shit on you.

>party has an audience with a lord
>one of the players is playing an edgy rogue
>has a brilliant idea
>says hes going to draw his dagger and in a flash place it on the lords throat
>apparently thinks this will demonstrate his prowess and impress the lord
>actually just means he has a spear through his leg as soon as he touches his dagger

I can't fucking stand people who aren't interested or engaged, and I'm a player, so it must be hell for the GM.
I know you want to hang out with us in everything we do, but if you aren't interested, just tell us, you don't have to play, I'd rather us there have a better time than you bring it down because you don't care.
Don't even get me started on people who come without even a character concept ready, that's the fucking pits

I mean, this could work and look quite impressive if the player character actually had the fucking skill to do this kinda thing.

Maybe, but I think the player had just been watching too much anime

Nah, that sounds like something Lord Vetinari could pull off. Maybe.

>This is the part where I make excuses about him being my best and most steadfast friend I've ever had (which he is)
Apparently you aren't his, otherwise he wouldn't be deliberately pissing you off so badly.

It sounds like you need to tell your friend to fuck right off with that attitude. I've had similar moments with friends in my gaming group as well, just tell them to fuck off with it. It'll be fine, if they are a functioning adult, they'll take the hint.

>It sounds like you need to tell your friend to fuck right off with that attitude.
That's what I'm saying. Learn from my mistakes about "steadfast friends". I don't give a fuck if the guy literally saved your life in Afghanistan, if he's being retarded in a group, cut that shit out or you will be me, a forever DM who never had a proper campaign reach anything resembling a conclusion or even a good few sessions because I get burnt out.

Oh, and also I'm the only person that ever DMs and I'm also the only person asking for scheduling a second session, but everyone in that group is always like "oh I'm busy today". Recently I learned that my nickname is "One Session Mike" because I never ever get to host a second session of a campaign, and by the time there's something on schedule, everyone already forgot what the campaign was about.

>They'd smirkquip at it until they died, then roll up new smirkquip characters.

I have a rule that whenever a player changes character, for any reason, their new character must be a different character. Mainly because I don't like it when a PC dies, then gets replaced by a PC that is identical in all but name.

I've had players who make one PC that is too stupid to live. But I've yet to see them come up with a second 'too stupid to live' character that is different from the first.

Intentional unoptimization is the rpg equivalent of upping the video game difficulty level. Some people like suffering.

this, he could be manipulating the gm-friend.

>THEN WHY ARE YOU A FUCKING OUTLAW
In Warhammer your first career is basically the last job you did before going out adventuring.
A watchman isn't on duty anymore, a barber surgeon has is shop closed etc. So this explanation is actually fine.

See, even with my best friends if any of them pulled this shit (as one had done in the past), as soon as they got to BEER I WANT BEER this is (and was) what would be out of my mouth next, "If you do not let me speak and describe what I'm trying to describe instead of acting like a little kid, then we are done for tonight and you can go home."

frankly him being a deliberate lol so random xD halfling mental patient and the fact that he didn't tell me anything about this plan of his beforehand was what annoyed me so much. it was a breaking point kinda thing.

this fucker in the from the loop game im running just made a kid in a chicken suit, this kid needs to go to school and survive regular life, but noooooo lets put her in a chicken suit, make all her stats say chicken and FUCKING bitch at me when i say i want to run a serious game

Let him play his character and tweak the game to compensate. Reduce the encounter difficulties if you have to. Make him fight lesser goons instead of the big threats. Let him sneak or sit out battles if he can't fight at all. Ask him what he wants out of the game, then find ways for him to be useful. Maybe he understands a language nobody else can and serves as interpreter. Try giving him puzzles or mysteries he can solve. Let him find creative ways to circumvent encounters or make them easier for everyone else. Have an NPC or monster befriend him and then help in combat to shore up his weaker stats. Make him feel useful and important to the story without being personally powerful.

Have him play the group's hireling. Like, a torchbearer or the guy who carries their chest, polishes their arms and armor, announces them, or something. Like a squire.

>>Me: "That's not appropriate. Can you pick something that fits the setting better?"
>>T: "No"

And that's where you say "OK, see you next campaign, maybe."

No it didn't

>guy literally saves your life
>cut off contact because you can't finish a game that you wouldn't even be playing if it wasn't for him

He said cut him out of the game, retard, not cut off contact.

I'm supremely annoyed by one of the players in my group since he does completely retarded things that I think ruins the fun for everyone, but it seems like I'm the only one bothered.
Like for example, he attacked the final boss in a dungeon when more than half the party wasn't even near and then when we defeated it after almost getting a TPK he took all the loot and gold in the final chest for himself, despite being a Paladin of Torm and then calling it roleplaying.
And yet no one seems to be bothered by it except me. Am I being petty or am I part of some bizzaro group?

for most people, loot means nothing AFTER defeating the FINAL boss.

It was the final boss of the first dungeon, and the paladin ended up with 10x more gold than everyone else combined yet refuses to share.

Final boss of the first dungeon... Are you playing some sort of Zelda themed thing with mini-bosses? I can understand saying the boss of a dungeon, to an extent, but you can't just say the final boss and not expect people to think you mean the BBEG.

Paladin of Torm... Refusing to share... Well, to be fair, he does have to pay his tithe. Still, paladin_falls.jpeg

Okay? You want me to apologize for confusing you or something? Why are you acting like such a sperg.

My players are fucking greedy as hell. I mean real greedy.
I asked them why once, and they all agreed that I was a joo dm, who didn't give out enough wealth. I argued that they usually exceeded wbl guidelines, and I hadn't inflated prices.
Finally I give in...and decide to give them more.
Lv 1's, I started them with an extradimensial safe room...to store their treasure. (They were going to be collecting things, daggers, old maps, odd figurines etc)
Then...I give them over 5000 gold in art items from their first encounter. (They still take a goblins boots to get the 1 copper resale)
Next encounter led them to a HUGE ancient elven horde of mithral weapons and armor. I told them each weapon/armor was worth a minimum of 5000 gold, just for the antique value...and there were hundreds.
They decided they couldn't protect said horde, and would need to hire guards.
They wanted the guards to agree to never leave after they see the treasure. I told them no guards would agree to sit in one building forever....they whine and argue this for half an hour. Finally they agree to get all guards to sign agreements to never speak about what they see. And the players expect this contract to function like an unbreakable geas.
I said " the better you pay the guards, the more loyal they will be.."
They said we want to pay them in weapons...not coins. We're going to give them each 1 weapon that they can only use here. I said so you're paying them literally nothing? Yeah...
Finally they hired 4 zero lv warrior guards for 3 silver per day...and fucking cried about the price.

After that, I told them " I literally gave you all millions in coins...and it wasn't enough?"
They replied " well, we want to buy stuff, not spend it on stupid shit like guards and NPCs"

I seriously hate them some times.

I've been a player in a game where there was a player like this. It was infuriating because their characters were interesting, but they often became a source of new problems for the party, at times when we had enough, or failed at things where we needed them not to. His characters tended to die leaving problems behind and since he went through so many of them the accumulation of problems started to bog the story down with busywork that tended to not give much potential for roleplay or character growth because the characters said problems would have effected the most were dead.

Do you have any advice on how to run underpowered characters in such a way as to enhance the story? I guess make their weakness and failures enhance the story instead of slowing it down?

Because if I play with someone who has this problem again I want to be able to help them instead of just pulling my hair because they keep doing this and neither of us can figure out what they are doing wrong.

That sounds fucking awful, user. I can't stand next-level greed like that. Holy shit. However, I'm enjoying my rage right now. Got any more stories?

Out of curiosity, how big are your players' noses?

>Do you have any advice on how to run underpowered characters in such a way as to enhance the story?
I think you're going to have to define exactly what you mean by "underpowered". My current character is an unoptimized rogue that I built for CHA, prioritizing Persuasion and Deception over the more stealthy skills, who has failed to open more locks than she's succeeded at, and is squishy as hell because I chose to dump CON and roll random for HP rather than taking the average. She's alright in combat until she gets seen, but then she's meat.

>I guess make their weakness and failures enhance the story instead of slowing it down?
You just answered your own question. Every time I fail to pick a lock is an opportunity for the mage to step in or for the barbarian to kick the fucking door down, and the rare times I fail at dipolmacy are good opportunities for the psion to just snatch erry motherfucker birthday.

Your players are right.

Money = Power. If I can get one extra copper I will sure do so.

>Money = Power
Only if you use it. Hoarded gold is useless unless you're a literal dragon looking for a comfy bed.

Thank you.

Thinking about it from that perspective.
I now realize that the problem was not so much that their characters were underpowered, it was more that they made characters that had flaws that lead them to self destruct. The fact that they were underpowered was just incidental.

So I guess I should talk to them about why they always make characters with fatal flaws.
I'm saying fatal to mean flaws that WILL get you killed and leave a lot of problems in your wake, vs normal flaws where one or both of those things COULD happen but don't have to.

Oy vey!

If you board enough money you can start affecting the coming by being an important factor in how much, or little, money is in circulation and how much the money is worth.

Now that I think about it, making a kingdom do want you say because you could crash their economy by causing a glut that tanks the value of their currency metal sounds oddly satisfying. You really know you've come a long way when you can start threatening to drown realms in money.

The found an semi ruined ballroom from a bygone age...
In one corner was a small keg that would produce wine a few times per day.
Appraisal said a bottle of said wine would be worth 15 gold...
The rush out to steal empty bottles so the can sell cheap wine at the docks. I said "guys it will only do 2 bottles per day".... The screaming was epic. They wanted unlimited daily bottles.
They had to find a certain lair, and only 3 at a time would look, one had to stay back in town so they could fill 2 bottles of wine up. After they over saturated the market on cheap wine...they moved cities so they could sell more.

I can't toss anything neat or cool into the game, they'll exploit the fuck out of it.

They searched the beach once in game.
I said they'd found some interesting wood that a carver might buy for 10 gold.
They immediately started searching the beach for more..
>Rolling a search, did I find any?
On and on...I told them the carver had all he would ever want. They loaded up a wagon and went to the next town, looking for wood workers who would buy it.
>Want to get back to the story? Finish the job you were on?
>Nope, looking for wood workers

This thread is made for me. My group is made out of mostly-newbies, who started playing last december. The GM is new too.

But here's the thing- I have problems with not making optimized characters- it's hard for me to deliberately take a bad option. I mean, I can fully decide 'Hey I'll make an eldritch theurge', which means I'll be a sub-par warlock *And* a sub-par divine caster, but then I'll put effort into making sure he's still useful. Practiced Spellcaster, metamagic, grab some Ur-priest for the divine caster, etc.

Then when any kind of combat happens, I end up inadvertently crushing everything. Even just deciding 'yeah, my incarnate melee fighter will stand here and just bait AoOs with her whip' means I'm making it impossible for anyone to cast half the time, meaning the encounter's mages can't do much.

So I make shit PCs. Not because they're bad, annoying, or insufferable, or that they're not well-roleplayed... But because I make things impossibly hard for the still-inexperienced GM to make encounters difficult. Especially considering that the rest of the players are just as inexperienced as the GM is.

>playing 3.PF
>doesn't know why he can't stop min-maxing

So when the PCs return, the guards are going to be gone along with whatever treasure they can carry, right?

sounds like its time for the good old falling rock of death.

he wants to railroad the GM but the GM can railroad him right back.

>at local tavern / bar / inn
>stranger buys him a drink
>its poision.
>hes dead jim

>character falls asleep
>assassin slit his neck
>what wrong with you i say you head dead

>he rubs a local the wrong way
>local is a witch
>DOOOOOMMMMM!!

>gets a cool magic ring
>LOL BITCH ITS CURSED!
>dont tell him this
>give him a few stat buffs to throw him off
>can not be removed
>The ring make it so once any part of his body has been under water it can not come back up
>wait till player takes a bath or dives into a pool to tell him.

You should run a session where you give them each a purse of infinite gold.
Brewster's Millions them.
When they have literally infinite money and can solve all problems by throwing more money at it, they might start trying to find something more interesting to do than "get more money".

It's a variation of "the Easy Button" approach.

I mean, you can stop minmaxing in any game system. Even video games that encourage you to roll high for stats can be taken on a challenge that minimizes levelling or starting stats. It just requires a "challenge" mindset. I've known people who were trying to min-max in fucking WFRP2.

If your characters are so oppressive, why don't you try hyperoptimizing something from the lower tier? Roll a straight up Fighter or Rogue instead and look for different options. Even a Dungeoncrasher Zhentarim Fighter is only good at doing damage and nothing else.

Restrict your casting to UMD from Rogue levels or some shit and still try to maximize your utility, but at a much lower level.

>You really know you've come a long way when you can start threatening to drown realms in money.
Or they send their army after you and take your money long before you have any chance to hire mercenaries wit hit, because you're a damn skinflint.

This x1000

For the love of Grud don't do this passive aggression begets more passive aggression, if the GM says no that's it, end of discussion. If he doesn't want to play something appropriate to the setting he can fuck off and that should be made abundantly clear, the GM is as much a player as everyone else and one that is trying to facilitate your good time, if you can't meet them halfway and make an effort to be appropriate the setting and game they've gone to the trouble of preparing, out you go.

The problem with raising a mercenary army is finding things for them to fight to stay sharp and secure loot to help make them less of a net drain. But if they conquer a land then you have to figure out what to do with it. Though that becomes much easier if the family of the deposed ruler is willing to squeeze the life out of their own people to scrape together a fortune big enough to buy their lands back from you. So I guess it can work.

Simple solution, one of them becomes a dragon, and all that gold makes such a comfy bed its a shame they can't share it with any of their friends.
Reminds me of what happened to Eustace in Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

TAXES! TAXES! TAXES!

Tax everyone who isn't you and your enforcers. Tax heavily and mercilessly.

Aren't tithes typically a portion of income anyway? More gold = more tithes.

But yeah what the fuck is the point of being a goody two shoes paladin if you're just gonna murderhobo? Sounds boring.

Sure he saved his life, but what has he done for him lately?

Damn, that's crazy. I've got some greedy players, but they're not that bad. My players collect everything they can sell yes, they commit insurance fraud, bribe government officials and then murder them to get their money back, travel to other planets just to get better deals on heavy weapons, stole three starships rather than buying them, purchased a ticket to another solar system in steerage class (cargo bay) rather than getting a proper cabin. But they never were stingy about paying money out when they absolutely needed to. Using 20% of their total cash to bribe a crowd to start a riot? Did it with minimal grumbling, and they thought of that one themselves. Paid most of their first job's reward as a bribe to keep spies off their back.

So what's your bullshit excuses for not kicking them out of your game?

Vetinari would never be so crass. He might make a display in a more subtle way, but he's not going to fucking whip out a dagger in the middle of the court and hold up the lord.

I'm gonna hijack this thread to bitch about my current players, even though they aren't really shit players

>Player 1: uses her phone about 30% of the time in game, doesn't really RP well or at all. plays as her furry self insert but it's really not that big a deal as she doesn't make a scene about it or get magical realm-y

>Player 2: plays a bard, barely talks. Doesn't really know what the class does. Kinda autismo

>Player 3: Always plays disruptive characters. Not necessarily That Guy tier but just enough to cause friction in the group. It's not to be a dick either or to deliberately to piss people off and ruin their fun, it's just his characters. Only person tobactually stay in character almost all the time

Player 4: Special Snowflake incarnate. Loves to explain every detail her character does even though literally nobody cares about. Gets pouty if her rolls aren't good

>Player 5: Actually not really a problem. Kinda like player 4 in that he gets pouty when NPC's don't do what he wants them to do. Also expects tons of magic items

Player 6: Plays the character with God stats (rolled well) inb4 >rolling for stats but is barely there for RP. Constantly does the leg shake thing and shakes the entire table during combat or tense RP

Tbh though they're good players but their minor quirks annoy me

Very late reply but given that context I would say you weren't an asshole. You did what you must to keep the game decent for the other players and yourself.

>that formatting

fuck me im tired