/anrg/ - Android Netrunner General

Try out the older NBN FA decks, or Jinteki 1000 Cuts decks, and have fun watching the Runner squirm during their turn.

The corp feels more passive at the beginning. As said in previous thread in that (gratuitous) rant about interactivity, the runner has in the vast majority of cases the impetus of interaction, running being the main direct interaction between players.

But first you have a few cards that allow you to go after the runner directly if you so wish (Ronin & Contract Killer, the dearly departed Posted Bounty, NEXT Wave 2 to name a few).

And then, once you start to know both sides, the corp become a lot more interesting to pilot. You start learning what you can do, what you can afford to do; to force the runner's hand into becoming active at the most inopportune moment - one of the things that made asset spam so strong, forcing the runner in constant checking for fear of an effect changing the balance in irreparable ways.

To end with runners, neutral cards introduce some more self-damaging options, Dadiana Chacon and the lovely Mad Rush, Corporate Defector that could prove some cool Stirling/snipping option, Build Script, another one I don't much like.
And then the Bloo Moose elephant in the room. Meta-defining card right there, though I've played and seen a few games where the runner got crushed for it being the main econ plan - against Scorpios, or Black List/Chronos Protocol slotting corp.

All in all, the cycle was basically defined by how aggressive the runner and runner options were. As a player that likes aggressive play-style, I cant' say I was disappointed. All the more since it also holds true for the corps.

HB got some really cool options despite no new ID. Which actually opens some worries. There's a very fine line to tiptoe on the click-tax wire between workable, good, and broken oppressive, and the walk is reaching dangerous ground with Load Testing and MCA Austerity Policy (which might well be the most powerful corp card printed this cycle) joining the fray. Say what you will of O2 Shortage - Bioroid Work Crew is definitely the better take on an alternative/complementary Biotic Labor offering - but that theme of HB controlling the very air you breathe was powerfully evocative I found.

Some econ advantage tied to an agenda with CFC Excavation Contract - and any Weyland player can tel how valuable those can get. As silly as it may sound, I find the idea of a CI being able to double whammy Successful Field Test into CFC terrifying.
NEXT Wave 2 introduces some interesting variation of the usual rush counter-play dynamic. actually really dig it, and NEXT Opal while it does look like a missed opportunity, really offers some cool play (I've seen someone play it with Panic Button, and it was a hoot).

The bioroid side was interesting to look at, with Hellion seemingly out of testing and into full production mode on lawless Mars in the form of Waroid Tracker, and the ICE hinting at Directives being a lot more lax too. Not the first time we see brain damage-dishing Bioroid ICE, but Nerine, 2.0, Loki and Zed 2.0 definitely have more aggressive, creepier undertones.

People didn't like Defense Construct, but I actually liked its dynamic - especially in combo with Helheim. Cost is a bit high, but it being an upgrade with all the tactical advantages it entails makes it something that actually could slot in some builds in a post Howard world.
Seriously.

Restore is what Friends in High places should have been. Nothing to add.

Overall I'm sold on the HB side of Mars interesting convergence of theme end effects for some very powerful cards, and others that redefine preexisting options. I4m not the biggest HB player, but this makes me want to play.

Nah, Hellion is for fucking up people's lives in secret, Warroid is more overt than that.

The Hellheim/Defence Costruct interaction is quite cool (seeing as you can either load HQ up, or get back what you trashed), though DC is a bit pricey.

Jinteki got some great cards out of the cycle, and the (totally not Montsanto-inspired) agricultural-complex theme was brutal in the all the right ways I think.

That being said, Mandatory Seed Replacement is probably my biggest disappointment of the cycle. The fact that for once the word "swap" was not use had made me hopeful you could rearrange ICE any way you wanted. Which would have been very narrowly situational and ridiculously powerful. As it stands, it's a pretty lukewarm agenda whose best part is the theme. Though it can be of use to AgInfusion for changing the position of unrezzed ICE.
Still, the whole moving things around of the cycle with Metamorph, Sandstorm, Replanting, Bamboo Dome (while selective drawing kinda belongs here I think) tries to expand on design space and I'm glad to see it endure.

People seem to be about as lukewarm in general about Water Monopoly but I find it's one of those that has to be monitored. Between it and a slew of other "below the curve" anti-econ cards, there's a deck that's coming that probably won't be fun for the runner once they hit critical mass.

Very ambivalent about Obokata. It's a beautiful card. Jinteki's Scorched Earth. And, along with the new more spiky options offered (Musahi, Breached Dome; Kakugo) it makes for incredible games with high impact choices. Add Shipment From Tennin as an FA complement to punish a cowed runner, and the picture looks pretty bleak.
But then between it and the upcoming Ikawah Project, I'm worried of the advent of self-defending 5/3s, of the 3-pointers being in the future defined by that quality since the competitive players can't seem to be arsed to live with the associated risks.
Wait and see.

AgInfusion is a beautiful ID that completely changes the way you use and value ICE on the board - kinda like a Nasir to the corp, just for that I'm happy it's here. But it also manages to give back value to cards left on the wayside (Labyrinthine Server, Port Anson Grid... hell one local player experimented with Ancestral Imager and I found it could get some decent results).

Mirâju is probably one of my favorite cards out of the JH replacement package so far. Make of that what you will.

Jinteki got some great options here whatever your profile of player, and while no one will be satisfied by all the cards, I think the designer team struck a good balance. And again,; great theme too.

>Nah, Hellion is for fucking up people's lives in secret

That was the point, it has to be in secret because on Earth it's illegal. But then on Mars where corps basically make or break the law (and own the water you drink, the food you grow and the air you breathe), you have the waroid, mechanically close equivalent to Hellion, only fully in the open.

Even more than Shapers - which at least got the server-size/manipulation thing going on - I really don't know what to make of NBN on Mars. Which is probably fitting, with it being the megacorp with the lesser presence on the planet. It basically exist as something peripheral, stuck in media roles or low level security/information infrastructural roles, with no big outward push, though some creepy undertones.

The security angle is probably the easiest to assess - AR–Enhanced Security, Authenticator MCA Informant, Henry Phillips (I like the character by the way, smug asshole... really hope he finds his deck), SYNC BRE, Threat Level Alpha.
That last one was in some ways one of the potentially most terrifying card of the cycle, but it's been relatively de-fanged by the 2.0 paradigm change in tagging. Which is not for the worse.
Some of the best faction stuff of the cycle competitively is here.
I liked that they went "one more tag" instead of "considered tagged" for MCA Informant. Makes it a pretty nice BOOM! enabler against people that thought they could float one tag, if anything.

Brownout is kinda making the junction between the two sides, being both infrastructural - if seen under the light of its effect a masquerading curfew of sort - and the voluntary absence of media-feeding.

Then there's the media side proper, with Escalate Vitriol (very good sign that they're now willing to experiment with cards that punish tags in a granular rather than binary fashion), Biased Reporting (I love that one design-wise; choices and tempo swing rolled in one), CPC generator and Free Lunch (been very fun low level options for me in Spark, though some people cry murder), Net Analytics (I wonder about the future of that one in the 2.0 world actually) and the enigma Traffic Analyzer (probably a card that got curb-stomped in light of Net Quarantine + Aryabhata Techof if you ask me).

Last but not least, another card that seemingly ties the two sides together (if we have to believe that its the logical continuation to the project Puppetmaster at least), the exceedingly creepy Reeducation, which manages to be one of the most flavorful card out of the least flavorful corp this cycle. People don't like it, but mechanically as a big rush player, the idea of being able to rush this, get rid of cards not immediately useful (and work out agenda flood) while slowing down the runner all at once is not something I'm willing to disregard lightly.
The janktastic kill combos are cool too.

Overall NBN is probably the Corp that got the less this cycle I'd say. Still, got some very good individual cards when you're down to it.
But yeah, if you're a dedicate dNBN player, I could see how the cycle could have disappointed you.

(Seriously, I know I'm boring, ut no one willing to take part in that conversation?)

I found the thread interesting. People don't usually go back to think about what a cycle is bringing to the table, only what it's important to their decks or the meta. This is more striking when you see people playing the same NBN decks in a meta changing format like Cache Refresh. Afraid of Runners stealing their 3-pointers they conform with GFI to deny them points (which, btw, now that Punitive is evergreen we'll probably see more of it, since it still does 3 points to the runner, that errata simplifies everything but I think was a mistake).

Alright.

I did have a theory/justification early in the cycle that NBN were so powerful in the game before Mars and their stuff on Mars was weaker because they're much more embedded on earth.

I'd say Traffic Analyser, CPC, BRE and Free Lunch all feel like things that were needed-ish for NBN, they all feel like network parts, but nothing special - they're very vanilla compared to things like MCA or Brownout, which is something that fits Mars very well, or Vitriol, Reporting and Reeducation that are very NBN all over

There's a reason for that.

I mean, not a good reason, but still.

Agree on some level with about Obokata/Ikawah being a possibly poor trend of 5/3's being more defensive rather than being better effects - there's a bit of flavour lost with defensive agendas I feel.

Thoughts on Weyland?

Man, Friday Chip + evergreen Imp is going to be brutal

With two more cards than any other faction (and even some neutral cards being stealth W cards - it's funny how we'll complain about Mass Commercialization not being jade-colored when it's only really, or at least mostly, beneficial to the big W while also now combo-ing with Indian Union Stock Exchange), and some clear attention given to theme, Weyland came out big of this cycle.

Starting with the ID. An agenda-sacrifice based ID with the idea of gathering stronger and stronger momentum (and support cards like Oberth Protocol that feeds both into the fluff and mechanic) .Very cool, and along with cards like Success, Audacity, and Red Planet Couriers the start of some new very Weyland FA tactics (we FA 9/6s!) that really resemble nothing else.
Add in support from Priority Construction - the Weyland Mushin no Shin, Tithonium and Quarantine System (a weird one, but along with Jemison's ability allows for some mad cascading effects) that supports the agenda sacrifice side. And you've got some crazy games ahead.

Violent Weyland got some cool toys too, with some added option for stack-grinding (Clyde Van Rite, Fractal Threat Matrix), very spiky Barrier Tithonium , and a new killing option in the form of the very flavorful, but difficult to land (pun intended) Meteor Mining. A fun card. I don't know what to make of it right now, but I think the tying of a kill option to an agenda in itself has much potential.

Talking of fun cards Standoff one the most Weyland cards that ever Weyland. If you don't like it, I don't like you.

Watchtower, the non-advancement option for people that want the now ICE-tied tutoring present in the faction. Don't have much experience with it yet, but after Hortium I think this one just *had* to exist.

Then Sacrifice, Battlement and Transparency Initiative. Again enigma cards. Why 4 influence? Battlement isn't bad per see, but nothing seems to make it stand to that cost.
TI is really one of my wtf card. Where were they going with that? Like, I could even appreciate the possibility to rush a 4/2 without having to kill your early game threat threshold in very low econ mode, but that's not worth 4 influence. Beanstalk basically does that. And then can't combo it with public agendas, which were *the* targets for it. I'd play an Underway Renovation I can indefinitely advance for free until the runner feels like there's no other choice but to steal it.

Theme-wise the Jemison trifecta of Sacrifice, Audacity, Success works pretty well though, just like the addition of public Weyland cards - TI and Open Forums with some interesting plays with that later if you're willing to live very dangerously.

There's a lot to digest here. With some pretty self-evident sets of cards and others that still don't seem to go anywhere. Still, the cycle was a well needed injection to the faction as a whole, with again,all sides got something worthwhile. Mars was very good to the big W.

Since we were previously talking about Gravedigger having its time soon: cascading Gravedigger + Friday Chip.

The trash card for Friday Chip trigger doesn't need to be installed. Basically get all your Gravediggers and Chips online, and as soon as you get one counter on one of them, start gridding R&D wiuth infinitely revolving tokens.
You can bet the corp is going to purge. Often.

Yeah, I think the vanilla nature of some cards is why people disregard them. But there's some really interesting stuff here.

Personally I think that mass commercialization can see play in tennin institute importing the Weyland ICE suite.

Definitely, that's why I didn't I corrected "only".

Jam gravedigger on progenitor and the corp has some big problems

At least it then opens a Best Defense play.

So has anyone gone back to just single core (2.0) events?

It's quite interesting all things considered.

Do any of you have faction loyalty?
I have found while playing this game that I don't have a tendency to stick to a single faction like I do in other card games, such as magic where I almost exclusively play blue.
I've played my share of Anarch, Crim and Shaper, and while I'm probably more partial to Jinteki and Weyland than NBN and HB, I've played them all and enjoyed it.

Been experimenting a bit this Sunday. I like the slower pace, though my sparing partner has described it as glacial. I do miss the old Anarch explosive effects myself, and still think Anarchs kind of have an identity crisis. Single Hemorrhage makes me sad.

There's been a shrinking of the risks in some respects, and while it makes for less oppressive games I think it might also temper the excitement.
I don't know, new players would need to answer that one.

I play every faction, but my heart has definitely been in Anarch and Jinteki/Weyland.

I like starting a deck and then continually play and finetune it until it can reliably win some games, and since I mostly play physical it probably does look like faction loyalty. It's mostly just me being too lazy to make decks for other factions though, I definitely don't mind playing decks in other factions.

Single core Reina seems kinda rough to play, although she could splash both test runs to get that singleton haemorrhage/imp into play quickly and do some damage. FAO/ESD at 2 inf each are also good to have, although how many is the question.

I don't particularly have faction loyalty, but I do have certain factions that I either enjoy playing more than most, or will always hold a place in my heart. I don't play Weyland as much as I want to, but they are my favorite faction, followed closely by Jinteki. For runner's I play mostly Shaper and Anarch, but that is because I enjoy the gimmick decks I can make with them the most. but that doesn't exclude me from making my janky Nero decks, that I always will hope to find a way to work

...

I've always loved Criminal and HB. Honor and Profit was my first pick after core, and I picked up the EtF deck soon after going competitive. My tastes have shifted somewhat as I've grown to love Shaper and Weyland as well, but I've played a bit of each color pie (except orange because I am allergic to meta domination) and enjoyed myself. Only exceptions would be mini-factions, but I definitely wanna pick up Apex once I get my hands on Assimilator.

I play underdog IDs and factions.From ST, to Iain, to Chronos Protocol, and so on.

Ohhh yes. This is the fun stuff. I've been a Ken main for a while, and I've dabbled in Iain, Quetzal, Jesminder, Jinteki Biotech, New Angeles Sol, Cybernetics Division... you name it.

Also, I'm a firm believer that ETF was so powerful that it convinced people that other HB identities were shit, and I'm very eagerly looking forward to the Core 2 meta.

I'm working on a Foundry deck that relies on the twins to force people to keep encountering ice until they either take a Fairchild 3.0 or I can force End the Run to fire.

Huh, I know a guy who kicked my ass with a deck using the exact same idea. It's definitely got merit.

Kabonesa Wu is gonna be so awesome. Program tutoring at will woop woop.

I'm very much a Weyland guy, with some interest in Jinteki.
NBN I might try more now that they won't be dominating, as they seem interesting, and I've never really been that fussed about HB

Wut

Such a shame she didn't actually appear on Mars, unless she's actually Earthside or something.

Always did wonder about his background story. Did he make any appearance in the fluff anywhere?

Batty is a Bladerunner reference IIRC.

Isn't he a cross between BR's creator and BttF's Doc with Roy Batty name?

Interesting, didn't take him to be an actual Clone, although I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be a series after all.

He's not (we've not seen a Clone Sysop... yet), but he's a kinda stacked-up reference - he's a reference in part to this guy, from ONR, who's likely a reference to Doc Brown based, and the name and being Jinteki is a reference to Roy Batty

It's kinda funny that, while Kitara obviously here references the Empire of Kitara, I was blindsided by my linguist background and my first thought went to the Kitara language. - which would have been a lovely and fascinating way to set theme and mood for the campaign. Artificial, unifying language in a campaign about the need for union and the effects of greed and destabilizing powers.

Probably overplayed.

It does fit somewhat, especially if you're being less than charitable about the Sub Saharan League's plans.

It's also definitely because the empire covered the great lakes region, despite the fact that that extent wasn't all that long

hey you guys wanna see the new mwl?

Does the list really matter? It gets published when it gets published and means nothing beforehand. Not to be a wet blanket, if people want to discuss, well, all the better.

Glad to see you're still kicking around.

I would like to see it since I'm gearing all my decks for rotation anyways. Just help with planning. Thanks for always providing the best and accurate spoilers!

>Program tutoring at will woop woop

Regardless of the truth of the claim, do we really want more of that?

Okay so this is a bit of an early leak and the first major Boggs leak from me so I feel like it might just warrant a comment, but really - I can't be the only one who's tired of how disorganized and incompetent organized play seems. This handling of Worlds is atrocious. This whole rotation + Revised Core Set all of a sudden, where apparently not even Boggs knew Worlds would be played with the new Core Set before FFGOP confirmed it in a self-contradicting tweet? Get that weak shit outta here. Get fucking better.

And this weak as fuck "don't worry we'll get the new MWL to you players ASAP"? Screw that. This list's been going around for a while, and got 100% confirmed a couple of days ago; FFGOP still says they can't get the list out before 1st of October, so here you fuckin go. This list will likely become released 100% as-is sometime in the first half of October, and FFGOP will still go "well we got it to you as fast as you can". Up to you to decide if they're inept or just acting in contempt of their playerbase. They definitely gotta pick up the fucking pace.

Honestly, don't work there, so cannot vouch for their processes, but from personal experience with some very on hand companies, there could be several people in various non-design related positions that need/want to proofread/greenlight the thing and it may just add a significant administrative time hurdle to get around to that.

Whether it's warranted or not, that's the question.

Ironically, one reason that may add delays is spoilers countermeasure in published documents.

With a new lead designer, who's also a completely new figure in the company, the hierachy within changes a bit, which basically means that higher-up FFG empoyees get to do a bit more shit, so the MWL is dead.
It's gone.
We're going straight into Game of Thrones-style banned and restriction. I dunno if they'll call this NAPD KILL LIST or some fancy shit, maybe just banned and restricted, who the fuck knows.
Restricted means you can only choose 1 card off of the list (per side), but you get to play the whole playset, e.g. you can play 3 Magnum Opus but then no Levy or Employee Strike or Clone Chip.
Also Gang Sign is on the list, which is a Gang Sign of the Times I guess, kudos to you crazy brits, you fucking did it, you absolute mad lads Gang Sign got the hammer. Ps. Alex White is the most handsome Netrunner player.

Alright onto the good stuff:

BANNED (Straight banned put that shit in one of your spare Kit deckboxes-tier):
Aaron Marrón
Bloo Moose
Faust
Rumor Mill
Şifr
Temüjin Contract
Salvaged Vanadis Armory
(lol 9 Runner cards in Crimson Dust, 2 of them already banned a month later)

Clone Suffrage Movement
Friends in High Places
Mumbad City Hall
Sensie Actors Union

RESTRICTED (Choose one then cry during deckbuilding because you're missing all the others-tier):
Aesop's Pawnshop
Clone Chip
Employee Strike
Film Critic
Gang Sign
Inversificator
Levy AR Lab Access
Magnum Opus

Bio-Ethics Association
Estelle Moon
Fairchild 3.0
Global Food Initiative
Hunter Seeker
Mumba Temple
Museum of History
Obokata Protocol
With this, rotation and Revised Core Set I gotta say the meta is more interesting than ever and I'm more interested in Netrunner than I've been in two years, but I'd be more interested if FFG upped their business practices and didn't ignore the playerbase for 4 months, just to name one example.

Also if any FFG folks or scoop troops or who knows what wanna get in touch e-mails still [email protected].

Also this list just got done-done after being done once (but then a few things changed, like Vanadis going on the list), so it should not change in any way.

Regardless of whether I believe, I don't know what to think of it. I'm not sure I follow the logic behind the Restricted list selection.

Well, ill be honest; a Banned list and a restricted list hugely dissapointed me. Especially because level 3 on the MWL was basically a soft ban. Also, part of the reason I bought into Netrunner was because it didn't have a ban list and I had the ability to use cards if I wanted to. not that I want to use Faust or Moons if I'm honest. While this is taking the game in a new direction, it's a direction I'm not very excited for.

You've been reliable (if obnoxious) before, but this seems kind of unlikely based on the previous stance on bans

Also CSM isn't even on the MWL, so that's a weird one.

The closest thing to legit is that we've been told Boggs is working on the Vanadis armoury bullshit

What is the issue with Vanadis? This is the first I'm hearing of it to be frank

Some people took the idea of self damaging via runner cards to its most extreme conclusion and made decks that can mill 20/30 cards of R&D in one turn with no significant interaction with the other player.

Disappointing, but not unexpected.

Ah, definitely makes sense. I like the card when it isn't degenerate, but i can understand why people would exploit it since it's got a great effect.

After month of waiting for the cards since announcement, would be weird to see Vanadis banned right as it released.

If all this is true true, I'm kind of afraid this might cement the break between competitive and casuals. Not like there isn't already a split.

>would be weird to see Vanadis banned right as it released.
Nah, it's a very degenerate card. Without the corp doing anything, it's at a minimum a 4 turn win, maximum 9 turn win. Even a fast advance corp might have trouble consistently winning by turn 9.

FFG's playtesters aren't playing dirty enough to catch this stuff. Simple as that... they need to stop hiring "nice guys" and start pulling ex-convicts, date rapists, sociopaths, and so forth to be the playtesters.

That restricted list is almost nonsensical to me.
Were mopus and gang sign that much of an issue?
I thought people were generally happy with mopus and gang sign is a card that I literally forgot about.

MtG has a way more srs bsn testing department and crazy shit still appears anyway, to be insta-banned within the month of release. This is actually a good thing to prevent constant NPE situations, and it's good if this happens for Netrunner as well.

Gang Sign with turtles and FIS and Leela is bound to create one of said NPE situations. Not as insane as SVA, but still. Damn shame about tem contracts though.

Hey spoiler-ken, how are you? Do you play l5r at all?

Haven't tried it yet and from what I hear it doesn't sound like something I'd really be interested in long-term, but I'm planning on picking up a few Cores for those launch events and having some fun with some of the locals who dropped Netrunner long ago.

Also I'm pretty well, Netrunner's fun, life is good, I mean, could be better, but sometimes you get to roll up a joint and leak an MWL, so all's well.

> so the MWL is dead.

THANK. FUCK. The question is: Why fucking NOW? MWL was a stupid solution YEARS ago. Surely the CEO of FF wasn't holding Netrunner hostage with that bullshit?

I guess I'm a weird nice guy since I immediately called out for multiple Vanadis + self-firing Chacon and the like, yet think the whole thing is just novelty fun and ultimately not particularly interesting to play with or against.

I'd rather they errata-ed the card to

>The Corp trashes the top X cards of R&D. X is the amount of damage you have suffered from corp cards this turn. Use this ability immediately after having taken damage.

That way you can still play it the way it was more than probably intended: as retaliation. Would be weird to kill an interesting new archetype in the bud for fear of an errata, when a ban isn't any less heavy handed a move for the company.
Plus turning Obokata into a potential liability is no bad thing as far as I'm concerned. Make the corp sweat a bit.

There have been numerous eratta's over the past few months. I don't think your method would necessarily fix the mill problem. It'd stop it a bit, sure. But what is to stop the runner from running into something like Snare! or Junebug's, not trash it, run it again? (As an example, I know the Corp pays to fire those off) and then do their retaliation instead?

Are there any post rotation lists for the vanadis armoury combo?
I wanna mess around with it while I still can and the only tournament near me is post rotation.

That old spoiler-ken ID image needs to be switched to Anarch colors I feel.

Banned list is unsurprising. Restricted is a lot more interesting, given the "choose a single card" aspect. The runner cards are usually seen together, especially 1-ofs like Film Critic and Levy, so the loss will definitely hurt. Likely that the cards are chosen based on how often they're seen together, and if it patches up any weaknesses that might've opened from having the cards (MOpus gets money, Film Critic steals self-defending agendas, etc.).

Corps have an easier time choosing since GFI is that good, with the worst hit probably being Moon decks. Hunter Seeker is an odd choice though, probably prevention for future cards? Or just because they don't want to give you a chance to reduce agenda points *and* punish it?

MOpus almost guarantees economic safety, and combined with some other cards on the list basically shuts down any outs the corp may have.

I haven't gotten to test shapers 2.0 yet, but MOpus was a problem card from the very start of the game. The game getting a lot faster both sides (thanks FA focus, JH effect and increased click-free runner econ) put it on the back-burner as it suddenly became too click intensive and as such too slow for important match ups.
I think it would stand to reason that the game suddenly being made a lot slower by changes in the card pool would put the problem of econ inevitability and remote snipping it created back in the limelight, though I can't vouch for it yet.

And Gang Sign can actually become an incredibly oppressive card in a a world that still has HQ multi access to combo with it yet less efficient tools for dealing with agenda flood.
I don't that it deserves that spot, but I'm not surprised at least.

>But what is to stop the runner from running into something like Snare! or Junebug's, not trash it, run it again?

Nothing, but then the Snare!/Junebug case doesn't work, the corp just has to decline paying activation. and if we're talking ICE, and as the corp you've seen the runner build that set up, and still gave him targets for high punitive self-destruction, you only have yourself to blame.

The card is meant to be a non-fatal damage desincentivizer. Complaining that it works when there is damage is complaining the card shouldn't exist - which is a valid position. But then I don't agree.
That's a very interesting design space opened here.

Sorry, jumped the gun too fast, you had addressed activation cost. The other point still stands.

And I forgot the most important point: in your proposed configuration, the runner has to run to make Vanadis trigger. The deck cannot be non-interactive. By which point I think the most NPE part of the deck got solved.

Add to that of course the card becomes useless against a damage-less corp deck. Which makes any hyper specialization around it at building stage incredibly risky.

This seems like one:
netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/45507/take-the-corp-s-deck-and-throw-it-into-the-trash

Right. But I still feel "do damage to yourself" in the design space is ripe for abuse.

I'm still salty as fuck at Counter Surv. being able to rifle through R&D for many cards if the runner tags themself (granted, this got hit with Syphon rotating out).

Thanks.
I love the emergent bit of meta narrative that this deck has because it runs 3 peace in our time.

"Alright everyone. We gotta all just agree to not fuck each other's shit. We're all adults here"

*three days later*

"AgInfusion's Research and Development fell victim to the worst terrorist attack in recent history. It seems to have been perpetrated by the Jargoniew clan using scavenged weapons

>I still feel "do damage to yourself" in the design space is ripe for abuse.

Don't mistake, "do damage to yourself" i.e abuse Cybernetics and your portfolio of mob contacts to trigger damage-dependent effects, and "allow the corp to do damage to you" i.e voluntarily face-plant into all the mean things the corp fully intended to use against you to hurt it back.
The first one is a problem in the making unless vigorously tailored into a niche (Clan Vengeance, with the counter raising per damage source and not per damage quantity, and being capped by HQ size, is manageable, Vanadis as I accidentally in that anarch review up there, with its explosive effect needs a firmer hand), the second opens some pretty interesting design space.

Counter Surveillance needed some caveat. I like "use this ability only if Counter Surveillance was already installed at the start of your turn" myself, but even a more DLR reminiscent "install only if you made a successful run on HQ this turn" could have done the trick.

This to me seems like it wanted to be a card I would slot in one of those old scorched earth deck. Trouble, those cards to be interesting need for the corp to have a window of action - you may force that window off if you work hard, but the window needs to exist. Here as I've been repeating for a while, the absence of condition turns it into a double event mistakenly labeled as a Resource.

Which really is too bad, because I *so* love the idea behind that card.

Filtering that through the events of the previous Mars conflict: "Yeah, don't worry, we'll respect your peace and make you money... not as if we could lash back at you without weapons, eh?".

Been looking for the full spoil of the ID, can't find it. Sauce?

Dude's trolling.

Assuming the new b/r list is real, what hope is there left for crims?

Play Maven Geist.

Just gotta build the hype you know? She's in pack 2 of next cycle.

So is Geist the new King of Crims now? Don't know if Informants and/or Power Taps are enough to go on now.

Los and Leela are still pretty good too.

Aenas is asset punishment (esp with doppelganger), Derez + High Stakes might be good, and I think there's the intention to make runner econ just a bit less amazing.

This would hold whatever the truth of the B/R list though

Surprised there wasn't anything Crimson Dust related released. Wondered how it would have been for crazed Chaos cultists to run amok doing Chaos things.

Come to think, what happens to DDoS and D4V1D? Of the old MWL list only those two are still around and not mentioned on Ban/Restricted list.

Lady and Architect, too. Those four seem to be free now.

Huh, I thought both of those were Spin/Genesis cycle, guess not

Seeing how responsive Mr Boggs have been regarding SVA, that list can easily be revised in minutes to add those in somewhere.

Though with CC presumably less common, would Lady and D4 be that dangerous?

Do you think D4V1D will still be as much of a problem once Parasite/Yog.0 are removed, and Clone Chip is added to the restricted list?

I don't know myself. Would need testing. But I can see the logic at least.

Similar for DDoS once ytou remove D&jà Vu and probably more importantly False Echo.