Jedi were a cult that had the power to kidnap peoples children and indoctrinate them into their cult

>>Sheev ended the Clone War
You mean the war he started, perpetuated, and played both sides of for years for the purpose of gaining power and to force a need for martial law?

this

Democracy had it's problems, but it's a lot better when a religious paramilitary organization isn't trying to overthrow it because the leader doesn't worship their spiritual force.

Or in this case, the leader just believes in a different interpretation of that same exact spiritual force, and thus the sectarian zealots believe that gives them justification for murder and acts of terrorism that kill thousands.

But religion ceases to be irrational when worshiping a certain spiritual force gives you objective advantage.

Does it? The force is an alien entity. By inviting it into you, you give it power over you. The galaxy is constantly at war because the force demands it. Worshipping the force is like wishing a evil demon. You might get magic spells in the short term, but you will pay somehow in the long term.

...

To be fair, this is competent as fuck. You can ask the important question of which shit, but you cannot deny he can and will get shit done.

"Worship" is a strong word here. Tapping into it gives you an objective advantage. A lot of the philosophy and ritual surrounding it is questionably or not at all necessary or beneficial towards the practical bits.

Even ignoring that, the heresy they were violently opposed to had at least equivalent powers. Arguably that would make them irrational again for batting for the wrong side, but again I don't think that's really the point.

None of this is really wrong, maybe some backdoor politics via Dooku did occur but the political climate of the galaxy was always asking for it. Sheev kept the war relatively in order until a clean end could be called.

The only real issues with his rule were the snake-pit political scene he kept up so favored but useless officers were in key positions and some Extended Universe Wookie slavery which was called non-cannon. Honestly even then he should have re purposed and reprogrammed the droid armies just lying around for his public works projects.

>Honestly even then he should have re purposed and reprogrammed the droid armies just lying around for his public works projects.
And deny Imperial citizens jobs? Fuck you bro.

Sheev provides employment for all. Even the ungrateful Wookies.

>Jedi were a cult that had the power to kidnap peoples children and indoctrinate them into their cult

I really hate how George softened this into fucking nothing in Clone Wars. The kidnapping shit was one of the earliest hints that the Jedi order might actually be kind of messed up instead of just boring. Can't have that, though!

To be fair, they were actually going to go there to get him to give up his "emergency powers" even before they found out he was the Sith. They were literally loading up into the shuttle when Anakin told Mace what he learned.

And even then, they went there primarily to arrest him for crimes against the Republic first, and only after he killed the other three Jedi did Mace decide that he needed to die.

Except it's never once shown that they kidnap children. Even in Legends that really wasn't a thing, despite Karen Traviss trying to make it one.

Every instance that they've shown Force sensitive children, they were either given willingly by their parents to the Jedi, or the Jedi in fact gave back the children that were stolen from their parents (as is the case with the Holocron Heist from TCW and... I can't remember the name of the episode from Rebels, with Project Harvester and the Inquisitors actually kidnapping children).

>Even ignoring that, the heresy they were violently opposed to had at least equivalent powers.
equipotent perhaps, but not equivalent, since its usage caused, or required distinctly different emotions, emotions which result in small little things like murder, power struggles, all those pleasant things.

The Force has no sides and both the Jedi and Sith are self-serving dicklords.

But one group is happy to just chill and do their own thing, content to prosper in anonymity.

The other is a ruthless paramilitary organization that is not satisfied until they've eliminated every last one of their supposed rivals and will literally scour the galaxy to do so.

>The other is a ruthless paramilitary organization that is not satisfied until they've eliminated every last one of their supposed rivals and will literally scour the galaxy to do so.

You've just described both of them.

That's... not really true, user.

The Jedi have plenty of other rivals, light and dark side both, and are generally content to leave them be as long as they're not doing seriously terrible things that affect entire systems - even the Nightsisters only got Jedi attention because they were involved in the kidnapping of other Force sensitives.

The Sith, on the other hand, have been hostile to the Jedi since day one, and will only work with others if it benefits them in some way - Sheev learned techniques from Mother Talzin, and then went and kidnapped her kid to raise him as his apprentice.

>sith practitioners content to use their powers to pursue selfish goals, but not violate any rights while doing so.
>Jedi insist that force (literally and metaphysically) must be used in violence to pursue the greater good.

>Sheev learned techniques from Mother Talzin, and then went and kidnapped her kid to raise him as his apprentice.

Or did he rescue Maul from an emotionally abusive relationship and raise the poor foster child in the best way he knew?

Jedi vs. Sith is basically Tau vs. Eldar.

>we must use violence and the force to obtain the greater good and bring galactic order
>we must use violence and the force to restore our lost legacy and bring galactic order

>Sith... not violate any rights

Something tells me you actually don't know anything about the Sith and what they've done.

Or you're just fishing for (you)s.

Considering that Maul recognized his mother and was glad to see her, I doubt that.

>Considering that Maul recognized his mother and was glad to see her, I doubt that.
Or perhaps that is a testament to Sheev's child rearing skills, in that he could instill in Maul a sense of forgiveness and love despite the trauma she caused the poor boy.

Fair.

If you want to get super technical, Sith never violate anyone's rights because nobody has "rights." They have strength or they do not.

This is not super useful for arguing that Sith are isolationist good guys who never harm anyone, however.

(You)
There. You have what you want.

>religious differences
That, and knowing he was behind the massive galaxy-spanning war against a bunch of venetian-japanese weirdos who dont believe in sapient rights

dafuq are you going on about user?

>People actually -unironically- defending the Sith.
You idiots -do- realize that extensive use of the Dark Side can, and WILL turn those who utilize it into reality-devouring eldritch abominations correct?

Explain the Jedi Exile

Why are you afraid of change?

It's shown in the series. It's probably not intentiaonally creepy and a result of George's shitty writing, but they still steal children nontheless.

Eh, not to join their side, but Nihilus is kind of a special case and isn't really indicative of the end-level power of most Sith, even the long-lived ones. He's that way because of the Mass Shadow Generator, not simply because he's a dark side user. Him and Sion both are both serious outliers to the powers of the Sith.

Mostly, you either end up a cackling madman cut down just after his prime, like Palpatine, whatever the fuck Vitiate/Valkorion is, or... can't remember his name, (maybe Freedon Nadd?) but he was a Sith on Onderon whose body wasted away due to the corruption of the dark side.

Exile is "canonically" a light side female, and shut herself off from the Force because of Malachor.

Ok, so while general recuitment into the Jedi Order ofchildren was an optional thing, the social and societal pressures involved must be noticed. The 'Great Defenders of the Republic' need to teach your kid to not be a murderous psycho with his or her or other's inborn abilities. It was seen as an honor, as it was made to seem, and I can only imagine a social stigma tied to ignoring it. Recruiting children and preventing any familiar contact is universally barbaric in our culture and thus we demonize it to the extreme. Is it bad? Yes, but no one is stuffing kids into bags over this. Perspective people.

Also, we may have legal religious tolerance in the USA, if not social religious acceptance, but is it legal to be Sith in the Republic given historic actions of the order and those involved before the establishment of the then current Republic?

No, they don't. You need to rewatch it. Not once do they kidnap children.

In fact, the only times children are taken from the parents without their consent is when Palpatine or Vader order it.

Like the two stories I mentioned. And the resolution of both of those stories is the Jedi and their allies returning the children to their families - even though they could have taken them in, they chose to return them. Hell, the TCW arc even shows that the Jedi have a holocron with known children that are Force sensitive, yet they aren't out there snatching them up.

Legends stuff from the War of Light is a bit more dubious on the consent angle, but they were literally in the middle of a full scale war of two Force-using groups.

Redemption is possible.

>Eh, not to join their side, but Nihilus is kind of a special case and isn't really indicative of the end-level power of most Sith, even the long-lived ones. He's that way because of the Mass Shadow Generator, not simply because he's a dark side user. Him and Sion both are both serious outliers to the powers of the Sith.
Its actually mentioned that Palpatine himself was causing reality to fray and break apart under the weight of his raw evil. He had -literally- become a nexus of the Dark Side around the time of his death. It's made pretty clear that if you delve too deep in the might of the Dark Side, you start becoming completely and utterly inhuman as time goes on.

The parents are free to keep the children. All that happens is that the Jedi keep an eye on them from a distance, put the kid on a list, and go about their business. Yeah, it's an honor, but given the astoundingly low numbers of Jedi - they numbered just 10,000 prior to the beginning of the Clone Wars - it's a pretty rare honor to actually be strong enough and recognized as being able to join.

As for the legality of being a Sith... that's a good one that I don't have an answer to. We do know that in canon, any and all historians who might have any knowledge of the history of the Sith were ousted from their jobs. So presumably, it was probably not something that the Republic entertained as legal.

Palpatine is also canonically (for Legends) the strongest Sith to have ever existed (or at least was, until TOR came around with Vitiate/Valkorion). Canon has yet to say.

>It's made pretty clear that if you delve too deep in the might of the Dark Side, you start becoming completely and utterly inhuman as time goes on.
I think you mean transcend to a higher state of being, thus evolving humanity.

... A different point of view?

>Palpatine is also canonically (for Legends) the strongest Sith to have ever existed (or at least was, until TOR came around with Vitiate/Valkorion). Canon has yet to say.
Even with Vitiate in the picture, Palpatine is still likely to be stronger. The EU has him creating Force Storms that can pluck starships from space and send the crashing into each other.

I disagree. I will not stand having my rights limited just because the majority of idiots decided so.

so you are an anarchist and do not support democracy?

The Jedi Exile never used the dark side, if we're talking canon. In every Star Wars game were moral choice is an option, the light side ending is canon. The only exception I'm aware of is The Old Republic.

>Valkorion and Marr dead

this shit sucks

le ebin bad guy did nothing wrong meemee XD

I said it before and I'll say it again. The prequels making the jedi boring, bureaucratic, emotionless assholes is their worst crime. I hope the Last Jedi salvages it, but I'm not crossing fingers.

>Marr dead
There is no death, there is only the Force. Marr is a great example of that.

the prequels didn't do that at all. the jedi and siths entire schtick is that there must always be balance to the force. the sith always try and take over and the jedi never try to eliminate the sith entirely, they merely attempt to maintain balance.

>the prequels didn't do that at all
Then why Mace Windu and all the other jedi so fucking boring?

>have strength or do not
voldemort get out of here, this aint no harry potter thread

It's in an early Mace Windu comic, user. We're talking between Ep 1 and 2.

Because the prequel parts involving them might as well be a UN meeting in terms of both excitement and success.

confirming that J.K. Rowling is the font of all fantasy ideas and what the entire genre is based on

Oh no, I completely agree that people have the right to violate the rights of everyone who agrees to have their rights violated.

>implying other people have rights
Heh well spooked my property

UN is pretty exciting when Farage is involved.

The Jedi and Sith are both assholes. Force user genocide when?

Be real here. These two groups have been fighting for thousands of years and dragging billions of innocent people in to their wars. By removing all force sensitives from the galaxy we can ensure peace.

>But the Jedi aren't being assholes
Yeah but it only takes one Jedi to throw a tantrum and suddenly the Sith are alive and starting trouble.

Until we murder every force sensitive child no one is safe. You know I'm right, the people that aren't force attuned have been pieces in the games between force users for all time, its time we overthrew the oppressive regime of the force user.

That's racist, check your insensitive privilege.

So you prefer your rights to be violated by idiot individuals?

>treating the symptoms instead of the cause

Kill the Force and the galaxy will be free from the cycle of Force related warfare.

Why do Anti-Force wounds want a safe space to spout their bullshit?

That reminds me.
Are Jedi only good when dealing with wars or natural disasters? Do they even apply their powers peacefully to better the lives of everyone around them? There is a lot one can do for society when he can see the future, for example, but I can't remember any of that in Star Wars media.

The Phantom Menace.

Yeah, the Jedi end up slicing everyone there, but until the seperatists attack, they are there as neutral, third party ambassadors

I meant the peaceful application of Force, something that only a Jedi can do. Any other schmuck can be an ambassador, especially given how well it went.

Because the last time an Anti-Force wound tried to be civil. The Jedi Council tried to strip him of his Force powers because they knew nothing.

(((Force users))) should be exterminated like the manipulative vermin they are

They serve as neutral ambassadors, diplomats, arbiters, and so on. Sometimes as judges, if asked. All you have to do is petition the Order, and they can investigate your case for you.

Legends continuity also had the Service Corps, which did agricultural work, electronics, tech, and various other things for charity.

You should play KOTOR 2. Much of the game's plot centers around both the Jedi and Sith teachings having some merit, but mostly being bad and counterintuitive; the Sith just end up gathering power for the sake of power and get backstabbed for it (even if their initial motivations for power were for good), the Jedi teachings fail CONSTANTLY creating Dark Jedi that fuck with the galaxy even more.

A synthesis is required between the two teachings, and is sort of what Luke tried in the EU after ROTJ.

That's the EU, and I agree seeing him get rekt on his last day there was fucking hilarious

Mace didn't have any comics about himself set between TPM and AotC, only comics he was part of an ensemble cast in. Nice try. And, for the record, Mace was given freely to the Jedi.

The problem isn't that Sheev didn't worship their spiritual force. It was that Sheev practiced dark, eldritch magics that corrupt the body and soul, and toward the end of his life was becoming a literal cancer upon reality. And also he wanted to establish a brutal, dictatorial regime where everyone is essentially enslaved to him and his arbitrary class of chosen individuals.

Palpatine was an evil wizard. He was very nearly an eldritch abomination at the height of his power. Letting him get into office would be like electing Morgoth.

also sheev is a fag name

Thread for villains that did everything wrong?

Feel the power of the Dhar Side.

The Jedi are pretty much space ISIS

I never knew irony was an actual flavor.

Nah.

>jobs
How the hell is Star Wars not a post-scarcity utopia/dystopia?

>I hope the Last Jedi salvages it

>Disney
>improving Star Wars in any way
You will be dissapointed

Don't you mean ingrate arboreal thugs?

Can't Quarantine the Palpatine

Kreia pls

>the jedi never try to eliminate the sith entirely
But they do, in Legends they fought a 1000 year war to do just that.

>one sith is evil
>that means that all sith are evil
Are you being retarded on purpose?

Please point out a single non-evil Sith, without using Darth Vectivus.

Palpatine, for one, is not evil. Sure, he might be a tad extremistic, but it's all for the greater good. In a galaxy where everyone are trying to murder each other over the pettiest shit, Palpatine is the only one trying to restore some BASIC order. Despite the constant demonization carried out against him by enemies who disagree with his ideal of order, he deserves some kudos.

>Started a war that consumed the galaxy, cackling like a madman the entire time, taking joy in the suffering of others

>implying that all the disorder that lead to the clone wars wasn't his, his forebears, and his apprentices' doing, egging them on until war broke out

Nah. Palpatine is pretty much the picture perfect example of an evil sorcerer.

I would like to point out that the whole great hyperspace War was basically started because when they were kicked out the dark Jedi were so badly traumatized by the rest of the Jedi Order that when they even thought that there was a possible Invasion coming they immediately mobilised the counter invasion.

>Palpatine, for one, is not evil.
>Starts a galaxy-wide war that kills countless innocents, and ruined lives.
>Created an tyrannical Empire that indoctrinated young youths to kill and murder all those who went against him, even their own damn families.
>Casually had whole WORLDS destroyed for no other reason than he was bored and it amused him.
>Tortured those who disobeyed him in any way, even his most loyal servants. And took great pleasure in the act of doing so.
>Would go on to corrupt the Chosen One himself into the monster known as Darth Vader, who would then proceed to Slaughter countless across the galaxy in the name of his dark master.
>Cackled like a fucking madman as all of this happened, gleefully reveling in the Chaos and evil he sowed.
No, Palpatine was most certainly with a capital E, Evil. There were -No- redeeming features about him.

>There were -No- redeeming features about him.
Bullshit. He had a great flair for the dramatic.
And he was a connoisseur of weird alien opera.

So laws shouldnt apply to you unless you explicitly agree before hand that they do?