Lamentations of the Flame Princess

The Introduction to Sluggs is crindgy edge lord stuff worthy of /b/ or /r9k/.

>What gaming needs, and what Lamentations of the Flame Princess is here to lead, is a gaming revolution where ordinary gamers stand up and reclaim the creative power and authority that the gaming establishment has taken from them.
>And we’re going to win. Believe me, we are going to win so much it’s going to make their heads spin. It’s going to be like we’ve built a wall to keep all the bad gaming out, and it’s people like Fred Hicks that will end up paying, believe me. We can make gaming great again. We’re going to make gaming great again. LotFP is hiring all the best people, making the best products, coming up with all the best ideas to make sure the joy and imagination of gaming happens at your table, and is created by your group, and not some specially interested group of Washington marketers who print all their books in China.
>And we’ve already come so far since we started. This year, on behalf of the average gamer, LotFP is providing not crippleware, not a disposable one-shot, but a sourcebook of monsters that you can use in every session you run until the day you die. Just as we presented an open-ended psycho-freakout adventure in 2014 and a huge expansive mini-campaign in 2013, we’re going against the establishment to do what’s right by you, the hard-working gamer. So enjoy a monster supplement that features that one essential creature that the gaming elite doesn’t want to feature, that they suppress in their own publications, the one monster that can invigorate any game and make sure it never gets dull.

It has very good encumbrance rules and some modules people like, backing up

It's literally just D&D Basic with a few cool changes (Encumbrance system you actually use, thieves that don't suck). You play it for the cool modules. So it isn't really better or worse than D&D, perhaps directly better than Cook Basic..

Anyone have the character sheet for the titular character?

This. You can ignore the edgy shit by just not using the official modules. I use Dungeon Crawl Classics ones and of course homebrew adventures. If you want an old school dungeon crawl that is somewhat more intuitive than actual B/X then it is a good choice. Certainly better than Dungeon World.

It's amazing that some people were up in arms over a Trump reference of all things.

The authors try too hard to make their audience 'think'. I didn't get the game until I read through Broodmother Skyfortress - It's their book about how to GM and run a game, rather than just an adventure.

Basically, they make their adventures and books unusually bloody, difficult, and full of weird things because they know that their audience is going to use half of the book at most - The writer said that he assumes that almost nothing will be used, while his boss dares people to play books as close to as-written as they can for the sweet suffering.

In that way, it's like the opposite of Pathfinder, a game that goes for the lowest common denominator and makes things too simple to make sure everyone gets included. Instead, they make things too difficult and weird, and leave it so that you can take what you will out of it and hopefully get something you've never seen before.

I started liking their stuff a lot better once I got a primer in how they think. It's fun, weird stuff, but I do get a bit weirded out by how much illustrated violence and shit there is in the books.

flame princess is cute

oops, wrong one

There are a couple of different philosophies that you see within LotFP material. But you are right that the whole thing is the polar opposite of Pathfinder where all splats are allowed at all times, and everything is prepackaged, ranging from adventures to even the "Meta" that the game developed.

And Broodmother Skyfortress is some cool shit. It even has 5th Edition rules for those who want to try it out but don't like the LotFP system.

It's OSR, literally nothng to look for.

Like other anons have said, it's just another retroclone heartbreaker.
The only reason it hasn't been completely forgotten already is that the author is a massive sperg who reacts rabidly to any criticism and tries to stuff his guro fetish everywhere.

That looks awesome.

I read the LotFP core book and thought it was merely okay, but it's really the supplements like Veins of the Earth that make it shine. Weird fantasy at its best.

Too true. A lot of the material is interesting, legitimately creative, and just plain good. And as was pointed out earlier you can use a different system with the modules if you feel that it is necessary. The modules can ooze with flavor, and are worth picking up even if it is just to farm them for ideas.

Pretty good B/X retroclone with good crunch (encumbrance, firearms) with a weird fantasy horror/metal imagery attitude. if you're gonna wean 5e players into OSR i'd recommend this or BFRPG.It has a lot of money put into its art and it uses historical settings but its the adventures that really makes it stand out .

some of tg likes screaming about edge (what a nebulous buzzword that's become these days), I guess they're sensitive? There's really about 2 modules that'd I say that the screeching is warranted (fuck for Satan and death love doom) Raggi has an immature sense of humor and uses the controversy it generates as free advertising. Just cut out the shit you don't like.

The God that Crawls
Death Frost Doom
Vornheim (supplement for cities)
Red and Pleasant Land
World of the Lost
Scenic Dunnsmouth
Better Than Any Man

Those images are usually better than the modules they are made for. The only exception is Expedition to Barren Peaks, where the module itself was so wacky it was enjoyable.

While I do get the feeling most of the shit done with the game is for free marketing caused by the controverse, this user is spot-on. The game itself would be long forgotten if not the constant stream of more and more weird controversy it's trying to generate and trigger more and more people.
And yeah, it's too fucking bloody to be still just "metal' - it's pure fucking guro.

Disingenuous or just standard Veeky Forums contrarianism?

You mean how the game is "marketed" or my post?
The whole game goes waaaay overboard with all the details about constant and pervasive mutilations.

I dislike the mechanics more, since it's literally B/X with few pages of homebrew rules tackled in, sold as if it was the biggest thing since invention of sliced bread. It's just a retroclone. "Controversial", but still a retroclone.

Said that, I wish it was better in shit its trying to achieve, namely - being easy accessable and enjoyable OSR game.

Damn this should go for you

all retroclones are just people selling their houserules of B/X, BECMI, or 1E.

But not all retroclones sell themselves as something new, original and "game-changing". LotFP does.

The B/X encumbrance system is fine. It's basically weapon + armor + adventuring gear (all rolled into one). Followed by: are you carrying treasure? Yes or no.

The math is incredibly easy and it's other editions that have you adding up pounds and even ounces. The LotFP system is more complicated and a step backward.

Fuck for Satan doesn't really count, as everything is basically the setup for a gag.

>sold as if it was the biggest thing since invention of sliced bread.
No it's fucking not. You can look at any of the Q&A's Raggi has had. He has not said that he is especially proud of the system or anything, though he does like how the changes are well received. In the end the core system is there to sell the modules.

The incredibly detail about perverse mutilations is certainly in some modules, but there is a lot of material which is far less graphic. A Red & Pleasant Land doesn't have anything beyond your standard dullahan-vampire guys for instance. Deformities you get are just the "Eat This" shrinking and growing that you would expect from an Alice in Wonderland take.

>There is that one module that's not guro gorefest
Different user, but wow, so impressed

What was that one module that had a blank cover and said not to review it, just to play it? How did it work out?

>Sold as new, original and "game-changing"
>"I'm not particularly proud of the rules... they are an adaptation of other peoples' work, and yes I am glad that my alterations have been well accepted, and I'm glad it sells hand over fist, but making my own branded game was a purely commercial consideration."
Please at least try to seem like you know what you are talking about.

It markets itself as different, which it achieves through tone and design. the magic items aren't +1 swords they're weird and often dangerous, because magic in the setting is weird and dangerous. there's no official bestiary (unless you count the gag Free RPG Day book Slugs), most of the enemies are humans and the monsters it does have are module specific.

The fighters are the only one with a growing attack bonus.
Specialists (the thief) has a d6 skill system instead of the old d100 chart.

try reading the material instead of getting your opinions from SA.

Doesn't that back up what he's saying?

Raggi wants to get rid of demihumans, the gold standard, and traditional D&D magic. These changes would make it incompatible with other D&D/OSR modules, but he struck a compromise because OSR sells.

That was just an example. Carcossa, Vornheim, Veins of the Earth, Deep Carbon Observatory, Hammers of the God, Seclusium of Orphone, Weird New World, and even Scenic Dunnsmouth aren't gorefests, even if they have a dark atmosphere.

None of that backs up your claim that it is marketed as "Game changing". The most he wanted to do was to move demi-humans to the index to work better with a historical setting. Even then they aren't being removed, and the system is entirely compatible with D&D/OSR material. Even that alternate magic system is packaged on its own, and advertised as being able to work with any version of the world's oldest RPG. Nothing about that supports what you claim. LotFP is honestly more mechanically conservative than DCC and ACKS.

last I recall the deminhumans were just getting moved to an appendix

Yes, I said as much in my post. They are still in the game, just like how all the stats for renaissance weapons and armor are in the game. I still fail how to see how that constitutes the publisher (Literally just Raggi in his apartment) advertising the game as unique and game changing. Meanwhile Mutant Crawl Classics nixes all of the demi humans in favor of crazy mutants, and adds in ray guns among other craziness.

Personally I don't consider DCC to be OSR (maybe in spirit but not compatibility) whereas ACKS is solid (it's essentially B/X with some extra rules).

I wasn't the poster saying it was game-changing, but I think Raggi definitely wants to establish his own system with its own brand. You can get this from interviews and podcasts, like this one:

blasphemoustomes.com/2015/10/27/episode-64-the-good-friends-talk-to-james-raggi-creator-of-lamentations-of-the-flame-princess/

I've also spoken to him at conventions. He's a nice guy but I do get the vibe he's trying to make LotFP its own thing, where people buy T-shirts and badges and other merchandise. Maybe one day it'll be free from the clutches of D&D trappings, whereas I just want D&D with some solid, weird fantasy modules.

I'm a different user than the one you were talking to. I misread your post on the demihumans and didn't notice till after I posted.

anybody hear any word on the Referee book?

If you mean thematically? Then sure. It is advertised as a weird fantasy system on the front cover rather than sword and sorcery or high fantasy. But unlike what you are saying it isn't moving away from being compatible from D&D, at all. If anything more recent material has encouraged more cross compatibility. But as "literally B/X with few pages of homebrew rules tackled in" it is not in fact "as if it was the biggest thing since invention of sliced bread" as some ill informed people assert. The game by default does run your standard high fantasy game. There are even modules for such as with Hammers of the Gods, which is the Mines of Moria with a focus on the mystery behind the dwarven hold. It is hardly as detached mechanically as something like Dungeon World, or thematically as Dungeon Crawl Classics. I would say that its craziness does vary, but currently it is D&D with some solid, weird fantasy modules.

He said that he is still working on it, but I can't imagine that we will see it before he puts out another version of the LotFP core book.

That's all true, I'm just worried it'll go too far. Everyone has their own idea of what OSR or D&D is, and I feel like LotFP is riding the line. I don't mind weirdness in the modules (that's where LotFP shines), but I don't want 1 sp = 1 gp = 1 XP all of a sudden. That's more work for me, and I already have different armor class systems to deal with. The more conformity to a decades-old standard and the less I have to take a highlighter to my books, the better.

If LotFP becomes its own thing, I hope Raggi comes up with a separate system entirely.

I don't think that conversion is too bad honestly. And the changes for the next version of LotFP is just moving things around. If you mean that a wholly different system would lend itself more to LotFP then in places I would have to agree. I at least would prefer something a bit more lethal, and a sanity system would be cool, but I doubt that either of those will happen. Otherwise I think that you won't have to worry about LotFP stuff not being cross compatible with D&D material, as being compatible with D&D material is how a lot of the content is marketed.

...

I think he needs to tweak magic a bit. I don't know about a sanity system; a lot of the time they feel gimmicky and little more than a way for GMs to bypass your hitpoints. I think a more long-term sanity system would work better.

I ran it for a short campaign. It's a competent retroclone but not the second coming that its fans seem to think it is.

It's got a handful of good modules that can (and should) be adapted to other systems

Don't pay money for it. You can get everything you need from the /osrg/ trove

I think it says a lot about OSR that if you made that exact post in /osrg/ without directly referencing a system you'd probably make a bunch of people upset.

What systems would you recommend that they be adapted to?

A monster used to be able to bare her breasts in D&D too. I salute you, James Raggi. Also, only retroclone which improves on the core rules imo.

>the second coming that its fans seem to think it is.
I've never seen anyone herald it as a second coming

The rules of LoTFP aren't anything really special - it's essentially a slimmed down clone of Moldvay Basic/Expert - and the rules themselves are actually free off the LoTFP website.

The real reason for the rules is they provide a framework to release old-school style D&D modules without paying royalties to WoTC; the module line is where all the action is at (like the pic in ). The main thing with the old-school scene in general is that it's very DIY-oriented, which means that the author writing the module matters a lot more than the branding - there's a certain feel to modules done by Zak Smith/Sabbath (Maze of the Blue Medusa, Vornheim, Red and Pleasant Land), there's a certain feel to the Stuart/Scrap Princess combo (Fire on the Velvet Horizon, Veins of the Earth), and so forth. LotFP is sort of an "anti-brand" in that regard.

It also gets rid of scaling attack bonuses for everyone that isn't a fighter, which take classes that suck at combat already and turns them into dead weight past low levels.

Bingo, bango, bongo.
I don't really get the hate for it, it does what it sets out to do.
Raggi's the definition of edge, but he keeps it to the modules. The core rules are fairly plain.

>Maze of the Blue Medusa

I will forever be salty I missed the original print run on this, and when the stars align and it ends up on ebay it immediately shoots up to the $300+ price point. I got that breed of autism where if I really like a Veeky Forums book I need to own a physical copy, and yet I can't justify dropping that much cash for a single book.

At least Veins of the Earth was cool.

Labyrinth Lord
ACKs
B/X

Then you haven't spent much time in OSR general, and for that I envy you

I really like Deep Carbon Observatory. The idea of a flood being the scenario like that was pretty great, and I read it at about the same time I was playing Flame in the Flood. Really good experience would read again and hopefully steal from it to run something similar.

>Then you haven't spent much time in OSR general, and for that I envy you

To be fair, they've been gushing over Glog lately.

Horseshit, there's nothing offensive in his statement.

Enemy AC doesn't go up in any significant way, though, so the "lower levels" are the same as higher ones. The old refree book suggests 18 as the cap for enemy AC.

>Then you haven't spent much time in OSR general, and for that I envy you

>a bloo bloo bloo people like things I don't

Don't be such a pussy, goddamn.

What I meant was that"It's a competent retroclone but not the second coming that its fans seem to think it is." would describe most everything in /osrg/.

Heh, okay, on that we can agree, user.

This is probably the most unbiased comment in here.

Also
>There's really about 2 modules that'd I say that the screeching is warranted (fuck for Satan
>fuck for Satan
Honestly, this one isn't even that bad. The people who do the screeching have naturally never read it and are offended on principal or sight. He named it Fuck for Satan just to rile up those sensitive people who would have been offended, and the entire adventure is a cheeky joke that's described as a Shaggy Dog story.

Though you're right about the immature humor.

OP here, wow, didn't expect this much discussion - thanks!

I get a really weird vibe from yall where a bunch are saying it is the literal worst thing to happen to TTRPGs and the OSR, whereas some are commenting on crunch and modules being nice.

Considering how Veeky Forums tends to hate on literally anything, particularly stuff that gets any kind of mainstream recognition, I'll probably give it a shot sometime.

From what I have gathered so far, Red and Pleasant Land and Maze of the Blue Medusa seem to be a popular module. Are there others you would recommend, particularly as oneshot material?

>And if you are into OSR, then B/X is still superior to that weak-ass retro clone.
LotFP has some interesting mechanics, such as the way it does thief (specialist) skills and the way it does encumbrance. If you're into Basic, it's worth looking over. Honestly, since all old school D&D is built on the same core system, it's worth looking over if you're into any pre-3e edition. I'm personally of the opinion that you should grab good ideas from wherever you find them, and using B/X with LotFP encumbrance, Swords & Wizardry single category saves, and BFRPG split race and class just makes good sense.

Moldvay Basic (B/X) is the edition on which the most retroclones are based. That includes Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy RPG, and Adventurer Conqueror King System. (Swords & Wizardry Core also parallels it, being based on core OD&D with the Greyhawk supplement, the same thing B/X is based on.) So it makes sense to use that, and to freely borrow any tweaks from the other systems that you might like.

World of the Lost is fantastic.

It's nowhere near the worst thing to happen to TTRPGs or the OSR, LotFP simply adheres pretty closely to a grindhouse, death metal aesthetic that turns people off and its primary author has some pretty weird tastes in what he likes to see in RPGs. It's about the only OSR game where a party of elves could fight off demonic cock monsters in the ruins of a dwarven fortress to recover the cursed artifacts of a Hyperborean death cult before the Swedish army invades the land to secure the rights of Protestant Christians and not really deviate from the author's intent.

If you're unsure about playing, Death Frost Doom makes a pretty good introductory module to the tone and style of the game even though unless your group is the type to cut and run you're more or less guaranteed a TPK, especially at lower levels.

...

Death Frost Doom is the module that made Raggi famous

It does encumbrance WORSE than B/X. I will never understand why people wank over LotFP encumbrance system, which is more clunky than the thing it's trying to replace.
Thanks, I'll just stay with B/X, that's all I need when running oldschool games.

This.

It's not about Veeky Forums being contrarian, it's about the game itself being REALLY weird module-wise. Meanwhile, crunch is just B/X stuff, so it is trying to reinvent the wheel, turning into a boring heartbreaker. The only thing that is actually good in the crunch is how thief is handled. Other than that - sad retroclone heartbreaker, crunch-wise.

So really, it's your choice. Certain modules are less weird and fun to run, but in general they tend to lean toward trying way too hard. Crunch is nothing spectacular and if you know B/X, then there is absolutely nothing interesting in it.
Honest case of average, 5/10 game that balances all the good things with utter clusterfucks on the other side, ending up being meme-tier mediocre.

Said all that, if you never player anything in OSR flavour, then this is probably the best start, despite generally being rather meh.

the only thing I picked up from your disjointed mess of a post is you don't like B/X

Which is funny. because I like and I don't even see from where you picked that.
My point is how LotFP is desperately trying to in the same time be like B/X, be better than B/X, be more original than B/X and also being a thing all by itself. Hence the heartbreaker status.
B/X is fine. And if you don't mind how it's structured, then it's the ultimate OSR game, with absolutely zero need for retroclones

>be more original than B/X
its literally just B/X houserules Raggi wrote up so he could have a system for his modules.

... which is my fucking point, Jesus fucking Christ. It's like trying to communicate with a fucking brick wall.

D&D but with SJW. They made a vagina magic splatbook.

First time I've ever heard it being accused of being SJW

We get it, you don't care for retroclones.

Your "point" was a rambling roundabout way of saying "I hate houserules"

So you know better than myself what my point was? Splendid!

>Re nice modules

Since LotFP is OSR, you can run any OSR modules in it. I have had fun with Skerples Tomb of the Serpant King intro adventure.

Veins of the Earth is a really nice setting/monster manual with lots of interesting and original ideas. The shock/gore factor is low. The hart is hate/love, but I like it.

Deep Carbon Observatory is great.

The God That Crawls is a nice dungeon with an interesting twist. The "treasure" is great and original. Low shock/gore factor. I haven't run it yet but it's a great read.

I'm not sure what's worse, your opinions or your ability to convey them.

Why use a substitute when B/X is perfectly playable? I just don't see the appeal of retroclones. They are good when someone never played anything oldschool before, but once you get a hand of it, there is no reason staying with them and you can just switch for B/X.
You know, why using a copy when there is original.

Meanwhile I know for sure this goes nowhere, but we are still going. Want to play the smart one?
Drop it.

It's a fairly simple system with a ton of variability in homebrew games. Death Frost Doom is definitely a good module to start with.
Fa/tg/uys complain about the metal asthetics, but you can do a run of the mill high fantasy game too without problems.
The high mortality rate is a part of the games charm imo. Helps with immersion.

Because B/X is no longer in print.

>poor communicator refuses to acknowledge they are poor at communicating

Price
Convenience
It's been 30 ish years since it came out. Decades of players poking and prodding it's limitations, supplanting their preferred mechanics over archaic ones. (Like the cleric getting to start with spells instead of being a Shitty fighter) while trying to stay true to its spirit (whatever they perceived it to be)

>mimicking the United States President's speech patterns is edgy now
You're probably just retarded, actually.

The modules are truly the real heart and soul of the game. The rules, other than the Summon spell, can be exchanged for essentially any other D&D ruleset or retroclone.

>But not all retroclones sell themselves as something new, original and "game-changing".
Yes, they do. They ALL FUCKING DO when they want to make any money, you fucking moron.

I don't know if you read it, but except from the silly condition of being able to give birth to cast the spells, it has nothing to do with women. You can very well use the spells in your game how you want, and the book even tells you to allow men with paraites to learn the spells.
All in all, it's just a silly spellbook. Nothing SJW about that.

As if we needed any more proof SJW has become a meaningless buzzword you can slap on anything you don't like.

>D&D but with SJW.
Isn't this the game that has a zombie fisting a woman as she's torn apart? That's not the sort of thing you typically see coming from SJWs.

I've got them both in physical form. Tis nice