/l5rg/ - Legend of the Five Rings General

>stealth, when not used to scout out an enemy position in the battlefield, is a low skill
Plus scouting, hunting, politely remaining out of notice before your betters/while going about your business, etc etc.
Mechanically, it's "the sneaking emphasis doesn't cause a loss".

Ambushes, shadowing someone, and stealth spellcasting cause losses.

>politely remaining out of notice before your betters
Sounds like a stretch to me

/shrug

Warm up before you start stretching. Wouldn't want you to pull something.

>stealth spellcasting cause losses.

That one hit me hard once when I was defusing a hostage situation. A cornered ninja had taken an Ide courtier hostage and was saying if we didn't let him leave, he'd kill her. My Moshi Shugenja ended up successfully pulling off an unseen Fury of Osano-Wo to take the ninja out.

The GM fortunately ruled that while it wasn't honorable due to being a sneak attack, doing my duty to keep a courtier safe that I'd given my word to was enough to leave it neutral and the crane party politely ignored that it had ever happened but were warmer afterwards.

>A cornered ninja
Sounds like they didn't stretch to me.

But seriously; a loss of two or three pips isn't a major deal for any given samurai unless it keeps happening. They're not perfect paragons, and they know this. Unless you're rank 8+, sometimes pragmatism wins. What isn't acceptable is when they can't deny it happened or other samurai won't pretend nothing happened - then it's a matter of face and heads roll or bellies open.

I don't know anything about this game. How viable are ronin, or are they NPCs only?

Ronins are viable, but their schools are not as good as those of great clans, meaning their techniques are sub-par. Which is natural and fair, considering how the great clans should have all the best schools.

Yeah. Samurai are people, they can't be super honorable all the time.

Ronin have issues, in that the original creator hated them and thus support for them is really low. You CAN make a good Ronin (There are Ronin schools) but it's going to take some finesse.

Ronin are exceptionally viable, provided you know what you're getting into, and only get into pissing contests you can win. The big problem people have with ronin is that most of their paths are in Enemies Of The Empire, and weren't created on par with the real PC grade schools of the great clans.

One conceit of L5R is that rank 1 characters are young and fresh to the world. Sometimes you can flip this around for various reasons, but generally new character == young character.

You *can* choose to be a ronin at this point - but you have a dilemma. Either that means you were kicked out of your school very young, or you never learnt from a school.

If you were kicked out, then you can take an Ally (possibly just a scroll of techniques), creating a black sheep / ronin who continues learning their school techniques / hopes to prove worthy to rejoin their clan.

If you never went to a proper school, then there is the generic ronin school you can take, ronin rank 1 paths in the core book that you can talk with your GM about, and ronin advanced schools in Secrets Of The Empire. There's a good chance you'll want to look in EotE for those other paths ... I don't recommend it.

On the topic of Ronin, what are some of the best ways for a ronin to make money quick?

Your other option, which doesn't get as much talk, is to just create a great clan samurai and play the game normally. With one exception. Talk with your GM, say you want to become ronin at some point, but without forcing it straight away.

Then you have a PC who will grow and age somewhat before they have to deal with being a ronin, or you have to deal with what and how of technique availability.

Start a bandit otokodate, rob a merchant travelling between provinces, and sell those goods somewhere the magistrates are not looking for them.

Tournaments. The Emerald tournament, the Jade Tournament, the Topaz Tournament and any other clan tournament that the clans have to offer. Lots of prizes to be won and stuff, you know?

Not ... really. No. You need sponsorship to even get in as a ronin.

> Emerald tournament
The prize here is to become the emerald champion. Expect to get your shit pushed in by a kenshinzen before you can even qualify.

> Jade Tournament
The prize here is to become the jade champion. You have to be a shugenja to even enter.

> Topaz Tournament
Pre-gempukku samurai only.

They might let some minor clanners in, but getting in as a ronin is really rowing against the current up shit creek.

Born-ronin can actually get into the Topaz tournament with sponsorship, because the vast majority have never had a legally recognized gempukku.
But that only happens once a decade or so and most Ronin who get sponsored are either bastards being sponsored by a high-ranked parent or uncle or something, or a notable hero type who will wipe the floor with their 12-15 year old competition.

One the most important trick is to have the professional match-maker on your side. She will do the job of selling the union to the parents of said loved one.

Though it's not everything here's what I have for L5R if you need it.
>mediafire.com/folder/n3mo3tdmq756f/L5R 4th Edition

How likely is a samurai who spends a good amount of time going after bandits to develop a prejudice against ronin?

Quite likely. Ronin bandits are not uncommon, especially during harder times of unemployment.

I'm, uh, not entirely sure a normal matchmaker can do the trick here. My character is from the monkey clan. The girl he wants to marry is a Miya. Essentially, his way of thinking is to impress her and her family enough at the winter court enough to consider it, leaning on the fact that she has plenty of siblings who already have advantageous marriages that her parents will go "what the hell, sure, we could use allies in that region", since the other user had a point and I figured imperials leaving a marriage to choice would be a stretch. Thankfully, Miya apparently get along better with minor clans than other imperials, at least from what I've read so far.

Do you have Crane allies?

If you do, you could call in your favor and get a Nakado from the Crane: with their endorsement, the Miya would probably be more inclined to marry her off to you.

>Most families who can afford the fee will hire a professional nakado (matchmaker) to find a good spouse for their child and to conduct the negotiations with the other family. A matchmaker will consider a number of factors in arranging a marriage, but whether the two people have genuine feelings for each other is not one of them.

>The Rokugani do not scoff at love or deny its power: Benten, the Fortune of Romantic Love, is one of the Seven Great Fortunes, after all. They simply don’t consider it to be a factor in a successful marriage. It is not impossible to marry someone you love, but it takes a certain amount of luck and a lot of hard work to convince the two families the match is a favorable one. (Clever lovers will persuade the matchmaker first, and let her handle their families.) Regardless, good matchmakers try to make sure the bride and groom are compatible, as messy public scenes between husband and wife are not only shameful in themselves but also call into question the matchmaker’s professional judgment.

Emerald empire, Chapter two : Custom «wedding», p. 41

Or as suggest, have a Crane friend help you. That's their stuff, and they most certainly would not spit on someone who could own them a favour later...

Huh. Alright, fair point. I -do- have a Scorpion ally, specifically a Bayushi courtier who's a good friend and brother-in-law of my character, could probably say he's a nakado since I was alright planning to lean on him for help. The court is hosted by the Scorpion anyways, so that's a point in my character's favor. Getting a Crane nakado is out of the question though. My character actually has a sworn enemy in the Crane clan, a Doji courtier whose grandfather cheated his in a trade deal, which ended up leaving his family poor (by samurai standards. For reference, I'm starting with only one koku in my school outfit). So yeah, not possible. Especially since I'm considering making it so he's looking to marry the Miya as well, for extra drama.

>Monkey competing against a Crane for the love of a Miya

MAKE THIS MANGA NOW. FUND IT! MONETIZE IT!

But yeah, this is good. If you were any other minor clan I would ask you wtf you are thinking. But you are Monkey. You are the Shonen Protagonist.

You. Can. Do it.

>But yeah, this is good. If you were any other minor clan I would ask you wtf you are thinking. But you are Monkey. You are the Shonen Protagonist.
Yeah, pretty much my way of thinking. I saw the monkey clan's attitude towards difficult or impossible tasks and thought "That sounds like I could set up some fun shenanigans with that mindset". I don't know if he'll actually succeed, considering the deck is stacked against him, but he'll certainly try. My goal for this game is to end with at least one successful pillow book written about what happens, maybe a play if things get really dramatic. It's the emperor's winter court so that's certainly possible.

For now, I'm just looking at how to make it actually possible for him to succeed. The two biggest points of consideration there are:
1.) Get on the map as an actual potential suitor. Bayushi-bro can help, but I'll try to rack up glory and make a name for myself in court too.
2.) Find a way to deal with the Doji courtier when he inevitably stirs shit, despite him most likely having a Kakita nearby to handle duels for him.

>Helping a Monkey marry an Imperial while preventing a Crane from marrying an Imperial

This pleases the Scorpion.

I want to hear stories about unicorn samurai

the advent of the monkey clan made the scorpion a lot more interesting.

That's going to be interesting considering I'm playing a Doji Kakita artisan storyteller in the same game (not the enemy though). Guess we'll see...

Oh, were you playing an artisan? I assumed you were playing a Doji courtier too. Suppose I should reconsider the artisan skills I took then, mostly Artisan: Poetry and the Soul of Artistry Advantage. What are you focusing on, just so I don't accidentally overlap with you?

But in any case, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think my character would hate Crane in general, just that one. I just meant it's not likely he'd find a matchmaker that will help a minor clan samurai compete with a fellow Crane.

Shiba Rrrrrrobotoniku

Hopefully someone here can help me out with this... I'm looking for one L5R book in particular that seems to be incredibly hard to find (at least in a digital format). It is from 3rd edition and I want it for one particular part of the lore about the Fox Clan because according to the wiki, there is at least one Fox Clan shugenja dojo that only seems to appear in that book... The name of the book is Emerald Empire: The Legend of the Five Rings Companion. Not to be confused with the 4th edition book titled Emerald Empire...

Anyway, any help in finding this book in digital format--even finding somewhere that I could purchase it in digital format--would be appreciated.

I have it in dead tree, here you go.

Pretty much every great clan samurai has some level of prejudice against ronin in the official material, even the clans that you'd expect to have any compassion for their plight.

>"When I see a dead ronin, only then will I mourn them"
Dragon perspective boiled down.

>"Show me two ronin that are alike. Only then will I judge them."
Unicorn perspective boiled down.

It's the minor clans that don't fall for the propaganda.

>"You say that warriors who survive alone, rely upon their wits, and draw strength from within are of little worth? Fine! Send your ronin to me."

Otherwise the situation of ronin can be summed up on 4 points.

>No Clan, No Family
No more powerful relatives to turn to, no magistrates on your side when you run afoul of the law, no kin watching the courts, but also no one you have to support when they can't pull their own weight.

>No Holdings
Samurai can walk into their clan's domain and expect room and board without coin. Ronin are lucky when they can pay for rice. Ronin also find it easy to move around, as one province offers much the same hospitality as the next.

>Guilty Until Proven Innocent
Magistrates will assume ronin are bandits or worse, as travelling papers are often only given to clan samurai. At best they can expect an eye on their activities or push to move on quickly. Ronin tend to band together in adversity, though, and even the least trustworthy ronin will open up a little more to other ronin. Just don't turn your back on them.

>No Glory
Few samurai will trust a ronin's reputation, and peasants distrust the whole "loose cannon" mystique. Until they earn a position like magistrate's deputy or samurai's advisor. At the same time, this means expectations for your actions are pretty low, so you can exceed them really easily. Whatever your actions or accomplishments, there's nowhere to go but up in the eyes of most, and if it fails, you can try elsewhere with little fallout.

...

The Dragon sponsor an entire ronin village in their lands, so they do have more sympathy for them than most.

The Dragon allow one entire ronin village which is actually outside their borders, is not allowed any obvious defences, has a very limited number of city guards, and is required to police their own with absolute efficiency. Any incidents that draw the attention of the Dragon beyond the few Kitsuki who see fit to keep the peace would see the future of the village in question.

It's compassionate in contrast with other clans, but it's still no great shakes.

I mean, the Crab offer Ronin constant, stable work and in some eras, regularly give them the chance to join up as real members of a great clan. It's not even all lethally dangerous work at the edge of a literal hellscape. Some of it is just internal patrol and construction work (At the edge of a literal hellscape)

It's constant and stable because the current batch of ronin die at a rate that would make Cthulhu proud. Twenty goblin winters are something they declare, not a constant open invitation, and even then it means you have to go into the Shadowlands and not die.

>Some of it is just internal patrol and construction work
They have samurai for internal patrol, and the Moshibaru for one specific section of wall patrol. Crab shit on ronin just as hard as anywhere else until they prove themselves, then they get patronised as being half-Crab.

Nope. They explicitly use ronin for internal patrols a lot of the time, and don't often put them directly on the wall precisely because they can't be trusted as wall troops. They also use them for construction work under the Kaiu because they're theoretically more capable than peasants.
The Moshibaru are not disposable and any ronin who makes it through a goblin winter will be promoted out of the Moshibaru or promoted to mentor newer Moshibaru once they learn proper Hida techniques.

How would the Crab feel about ronin trying to serve on the wall? or just about the ronin in general?

Answered already. Thanks guys.

twenty goblin winter
or
good fodder, thanks for your stay!

I use this guy for an npc, with a big old duelling scar. The armour/bald-with-beads combo makes a good Dragon.

Pass a Twenty Goblin Winter, and a ronin gets to sit in the Moshibaru family on a relatively quiet stretch of the wall reserved for the Moshibaru, because they're still not considered full Crab.

So explicitly I haven't heard of it, and it flies in the face of their general treatment and consideration of ronin. Cite it or get to fuck.

>The Moshibaru are not disposable and any ronin who makes it through a goblin winter will be promoted out of the Moshibaru
Any ronin who makes it through a Twenty Goblin Winter will be promoted into the Moshibaru. It's only once they're proven worthy (and not disposable) that they're promoted out of the Moshibaru or allowed to train the unworthy Moshibaru. Moshibaru unworthies are second class Crab at best, only better than peasants, ronin, and other clan samurai who have not proven themselves or show weakness. They live in Kyuden Moshibaru, north of Kyuden Hida, secluded from the rest of the Crab.

Ronin Families are kind of a special case to the general outlook on ronin. They have official Family names because of Imperial recognition, but they're still "ronin" because they're not officially members of a Clan. They're like pseudo-minor clans, a step above true ronin but a step below minor clans.

>So explicitly I haven't heard of it, and it flies in the face of their general treatment and consideration of ronin. Cite it or get to fuck.

Not him and not sure where the Kaiu using them as workers came from, but this is taken from Secrets of the Empire, 4th Edition, Page 139.

>Because of the Twenty Goblin Winters, many ronin spend years in the Crab lands, establishing a reputation and record of service to various samurai before finally
trying to win a place in the clan’s ranks. At worst, these wave-men know they will be treated more reasonably here
than elsewhere in the Empire, even if they never manage to make it through the Twenty Goblin Winter (or have no interest in doing so). There is also plenty of work to be had; although the Crab are wary of using too many ronin on the Kaiu Wall, they happily employ wave-men to bolster their forces elsewhere in their lands.

Then it goes on for a bit about how the Yasuki need them as guards because the other families can't pull bushi off the wall to keep caravans safe. Also that the Kuni are super paranoid and mostly hostile to ronin, and the ronin who do get on their good side tend to wish they hadn't after they work for the Kuni for a while.

Has sections on the other clans, too. One of those things where the book insists that everyone mistrusts ronin and whatnot, but then adds so many exceptions to that rule that it stops holding up.

Service guarantees citizenship.

>not sure where the Kaiu using them as workers came from
Way Of The Wolf p12-13 has a story about some ronin a Kaiu knew briefly on the wall. It's not as positive in note as SotE, and it seems to tow the general L5R ronin line in a way SotE does not.

Late 4e also seems to take a different tone on ronin compared to early 4e - you can see this in SotE specifically, contrasted with the earlier available options in EotE, and the sidebar "47,000 Ronin?!?".

Quoting;
>The number of ronin in the Emerald Empire at any one time is relatively low, perhaps a few thousand at most.

Contrast that with;
>After all, a ronin hiding in the Crane lands is easy to spot; a ronin in Crab lands is one among thousands.

If I play a character of a great Clan who became a Ronin and who doesn't have the Black Sheep disadvantage, does that mean I can still learn Techniques from the school or no?

You're no longer a student of any dojo that would teach you those techniques, which means you're basically shit out of luck unless you took the Ally advantage for your sensei and put 2-4xp into Devotion.

That makes sense. Thanks user, from now on I'll always take the sensei as an ally!

How many koku would a thrifty peasant or ronin need to survive an average year in scorpion lands?

One. Maybe two if you are really at it.

See, the Kaeru family of the City of the rich Frog.

Koku is literally an amount of rice needed for a year, user.

Unless you're in the Old5R timeline, when inflation makes it one month.

Most of them don't have official names, they've just picked one up and run with it. Official records still show them as single named ronin.

>How many koku would a thrifty peasant or ronin need to survive an average year in scorpion lands?

which edition?

by the time of 4e the developers realized the koku has become inconsistant and in the core book write text box on the koku that sort of tacitly admitted that and then tried to give general guidelines on the value of a koku for groups who didn't feel like deciding on the value themselves.

The reason I'm asking this is I'm working on a character who is a crane bushi that was sent out to protect a distant area of argicultural land as a way to keep them away from court and put their talents to use.

Being, possibly the lone, bushi enforcing law and order in a rural area a clan with fewer bushi but more vice and goods being transported and smuggled than most, meant that he's probably had to deal with a number of bandits and smugglers and other criminal types and some of them were ronin.

so I put "never met a ronin who wasn't a bandit" as one of his prejudices. but a someone told me that depending on the era the game took place in he may be well aware of the ronin who police(d) Toshi Ranbo. (first time making an l5r character. 4e not FFG edition if that's out yet)

Also one of you mentioned that Ronin can find temporary places for themselves as advisors or assistants which makes me wonder if a samurai in charge of patrolling and keeping the peace over a stretch of land would consider deputizing a ronin who proved themselves since he can't be everywhere at once?

nice dubs.
also not the user who asked for it but good on you for helping them out.

>Being, possibly the lone, bushi enforcing law and order in a rural area

That's an interesting way of suicide.

>Also one of you mentioned that Ronin can find temporary places for themselves as advisors or assistants which makes me wonder if a samurai in charge of patrolling and keeping the peace over a stretch of land would consider deputizing a ronin who proved themselves since he can't be everywhere at once?

City of Lies includes several ronin characters, most of which are available for hire (especially to Emerald Magistrates in the default campaign). One of them has as background that she did some mercenary work for the Crab until her party ran into Moto Tsume and his bone buddies and she ended up the sole survivor.

Thank you!

that was mostly be trying to make sense of how law enforcement works in a clan that has so much land and fewer samurai than most clans and also trying to figure out places where they might stick a bushi who is competent but not court material.

Got suggestions for where to read to figure out how law enforcement is organized in rural areas in l5r?

If you don't have enough samurai for law enforcement, you supplement them with ashigaru or budoka. The lone samurai in the area probably has two or three non-samurai deputies.

It's usually one magistrate and a bunch of peasant enforcers.

A magistrate will command yoriki, if his helpers are samurai, or doshin, if they're peasants. Yoriki are typically assistant investigators who offer specialized expertise to the commanding magistrate, while doshin are typically warm bodies with which to round up suspects, beat up thugs, and other grunt-work.

In really rural areas where clan samurai rarely go, a village might hire a Ronin to scare bandits off. It's often under the table as it were, with the Ronin simply staying and enjoying the absent Lord's hospitality by proxy. 50/50 on whether they'll actually step up to protect the village when necessary.

What is the dumbest L5R thing you've heard about Veeky Forums?
In a game I'm in someone got to play a weird magical-bushi. And I hate it.

You made me post it user... you made me post it.

There are occasional storytimes where the game devolves into an anime shonen fest, but otherwise, can't remember anything worth the notice.

That's just awful.

This Then there was Touhoufag going through an L5R phase where he'd want to play a Crane Clan Shota Trap Catboy who's engaged to the clan champion or some shit.

There was also a guy who'd come here asking for advice about his game. Then would get upset because his Rokugan was so different that it wasn't even recognizable as L5R it was more like Forgotten Realms. He shuffled the families and clans around and had Rokugan pretty much take over the entire landmass. Shit was pretty dumb.

Crane clan shota married to the clan champion. Also a singer without equal, iirc.

My favourite was Shiba Chef; the guy who wanted to play a Shiba Artisan or something focused on food, but was absolutely determined to wield a bisento, any incongruity be damned.

>What is the dumbest L5R thing you've heard about Veeky Forums?
I'm sure I've made it into a few anons' top 5, but when/if I did, they didn't say anything before leaving or shutting the game down.

Except one time, where the GM was angrily certain that if I wanted to play a Togashi monk whose backstory revolved around their former life as a Mirumoto samurai and some bad luck that led to losing an arm in their first skirmish before retiring, then I'd have to play a Mirumoto bushi and multiple schools into Tattooed monk.

I remember you, that was the Bat Clan game that never made it past chargen. I was going to play a Toritaka bushi.

>He shuffled the families and clans around and had Rokugan pretty much take over the entire landmass.

Are you thinking about pic related?

except in crane langs because their magistrates are a bunch of pussies who stick to courts and wrestling so their have to have samurai do what would be their job if they were magistrates in any other clan

There was also that guy who wanted to be a cannibal magistrate and thought he could get away with eating people all over the place.

...Ok, most of this I can make educated guesses about, but what is the origin of the Lotus clan?

What about the Chrysanthemum clan there made up of the Moto, Miya, Otomo, Kaiu, and Isawa? What the absolute fuck is that?

Uncorrupted Fu Leng and his jolly bunch of freaks, bootlickers, slaves, and conmen. We took his original "nosy trickster asshole" aspect and built a clan around it. No Spider Clan shit for him, he in fact hates Daigotsu with a burning passion here.

They are not a clan, they are the Imperials. They have the best. Literally that's the whole story.

>cannibal magistrate

Why were they a cannibal?

A chef is a peasant or is a chef an eta?

A typical cook would have to be a peasant because an eta would be too spiritually unclean to handle food. Particularly a samurai's food

The prospective player thought it would be cool, I guess.

A chef is either a peasant or a samurai. It's not the most glorious position, but being a really good chef can earn you a lot of quiet respect from the entire household or even court. A professional Rokugani chef is also the last line of defense against poisoned food, and the guy most likely to know an effective herbal remedy for little aches, pains, and afflictions.

So what are ashigaru and budoka and what is the difference between them.

Bonge buke

The description of ashigaru I got was that they are technically peasants and/or technically samurai (technically peasants [Bonge caste] but also the lowest wrung of the samurai [Buke caste]) who were forbidden from wearing the Daisho but were trained and carried weapons of war. They formed the bulk of most clan armies and were career soldiers.

The description of budoka I found was that they were peasants who decided to learn the code of bushido and took up and trained in a peasent weapon.

So what are the differences between them and could one become the other. Also what exactly are ashigaru since the description I got makes them sound common but also not something that seems to fit into the structure of society.

If I'm going to be playing a character who deals with such people I should probably understand who and what they are and their place.

I like a few different clans. I love the Kuni clan from the Crab, but I have soft spots for the Crane, Unicorn, and Phoenix.