Traveller General--Fighters in Crates Edition

I did look at them before, nothing about the second edition is there I'm afraid.

It looks like the Intro to Clement Sector 2e is there. That looks like all at the moment.

>I did look at them before, nothing about the second edition is there I'm afraid.

Do the 1e to 2e changes really effect setting materials that much? The UPP, UWP, and stuff like that didn't change, the changes to ship building are relatively minor, and the mechanic changes are tweaks more than anything else.

You're asking these questions as if Mongoose had thrown out their previous mechanics and presented an entirely mechanics like GDW did when TNE supplanted MT.

More than that, Clement Sector 2e is for Cepheus Engine, the MGT1 clone, so it's all basically 100% compatible.

>You're asking these questions as if Mongoose had thrown out their previous mechanics and presented an entirely mechanics like GDW did when TNE supplanted MT.

This. I've been updating CT stuff for MGT2e and the changes are pretty minor stuff.

>More than that, Clement Sector 2e is for Cepheus Engine, the MGT1 clone, so it's all basically 100% compatible.

Exactly. It's just a SETTING. With a few tweaks, you can easily run it with T4, T20, GT, TNE, or some other set of mechanics.

The UPPs, UWPs, USPs, and other stuff can all be "translated" between as needed and most, like UWPs, hardly ever need to be translated at all.

It's also ships and equipment and things which would need more work, except that MGT1 and Cepheus Engine are nearly identical.

USP is ships and you can still easily translate between versions. Translating in and out of GT is probably the hardest.

if it were to happen, would you run the galaxiad?

No. It's far too "meta" for my liking.

Miller is trying hard to graft Campbell's "Hero with a 1000 Faces", Frazer's "The Golden Bough", and other mythopoeic elements onto a role playing GAME.

It's a game, it's supposed to be fun and not some scholarly examination of the human psyche.

I only know the Galaxiad as the name of a thing Marc Miller wants to do, anyone care to break down what exactly it is?

...a thing for travelle5, in the archive...at least the intro

It's in the T5 section of the Archive and it's... well... weird is the kindest word for it. Very very weird.

Is there Flynn's Guide to Magic in the archive somewhere?

yes, but I don't remember where

>users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/

Has anybody else heard of this site? It seems to be a great source of relatively recent (early 2000s) worldbuilding material for the Traveller 2300 setting. It seems to mainly have a focus on the military aspect though, with the exception of an incredibly extensive sourcebook for the planet Tirane.

Mongoose 1e/Third Party/Rules and Careers

Etranger? That was a HUGE fan site back in the day. I don't know how active it is now.

Thank you, kind user.

>I don't know how active it is now.

The last update seems to be to a description about the German Luftwaffe in 2300, it was made in around 2011. It's a real shame that many of the other fansites that are linked or mentioned at Etranger are now completely dead. I couldn't even find them using online internet archives for the most part.

>it was made in around 2011

Figures. That's round when the various 2300AD re-releases started coming out. The first was for T20, called 2320AD or some such. There have been a few others and Mongoose release one too. You see, these official release always "break the heart" of various fan efforts.

It works this way. An RPG game and/or setting develops fans and then goes into hiatus for various reasons. Companies fold, versions fail, whatever, but new materials for the game and/or setting aren't being released by the IP holder.

So creative fans step into the breach. They set up sites like Etranger or Harold Hale's "Children of the Earth" and being obsessively detailing certain aspects of a setting. Sometimes the work is good, like Etranger, sometimes it's bad, but there's a LOT of it and other fans pick it up because nothing new is coming out.

Then the IP holder releases a new version or a setting update which uses NONE of the materials from the obsessive fans. The fans lose heart and stop working on their stuff.

It's not done maliciously, it's an IP and copyright thing. I once sat in on a Q&A session with Terry Pratchett back in the 90s. Some stupid little cunt stood up and started describing her Discworld fan-fic when Pratchett immediately stopped her. He explained that he couldn't even acknowledge to existence of fan-fic because if anything which even remotely resembled something in some fan-fic appeared in one of his books, he'd have a herd of lawyers chasing him.

The same holds true in RPGs. When Martin Dougherty wrote the post-TNE 1248 materials for Avenger, he didn't and couldn't use any of Peter Gray's or Harold Hale's post-TNE materials even if the complete shit they had written had been worth using.

The guys at the Etranger site experienced the same thing with the difference that their materials were good. Their stuff couldn't be use no matter how good it was, so it was overwritten. After that, Etranger stopped caring.

ouch...that...sounds painful

Yeah, it's always rough. About the only way is to work out a deal with the IP holder where all the created materials may be posted, hosted, and used, but also belong to the IP holder - who has absolute freedom with the material.
I'm willing to do that with my Trav stuff (provided we're talking MWM, not MgT), but how many others are? And what about tracking down the people who wrote older, but popular, stuff, and might not consent to the IP deal?

MgT wouldn't take it, user

It's rough and it sucks, but it's the nature of the industry. It's very risky for IP holders to acknowledge "fan-fic" for their games and settings. There's also the fact that a lot of fan materials really suck. Really really suck. Etranger is pearl among swine, believe me. Forex, while the best of Gray's post-TNE stuff for the Marches barely reached the low side of meh, Hale's post-TNE Children of Earth was absolutely cringe worthy.

Here's the really odd part though: The fact that later official materials overwrite your own materials shouldn't mean a fucking thing to YOUR game.

If you like your take on the setting, keeping using it. If Splatbook X later says Y is Z, who fucking cares? You can keep using your stuff and any other "fan-fic" stuff you like. You aren't selling the stuff so no IP holder is going to send the canon police to arrest you. If a player prefers what Splatbook X says they can find another game.

There's no real reason Etranger, Grey, or Hale should have producing their stuff. They just stopped because there was no longer a chance their stuff would become official in some manner.

well yeah

don't you die on me!

So last thread, I posted about working out a method that allowed low TL worlds to produce their own ships, in order to provide a convenient method of providing actual barbarian raiders IN SPACE.
My current solution is a series of modules that are designed to allow a colony to technically qualify as a Class C port (I allow shipyards to build 1 level above at 150% of cost, and 2 levels above for 200% cost, which also increases the build time).
The problem: they require off-world trainers for the initial period. This, of course, allows additional plot ideas...

The modules are based on the 30 dton cutter modules, built as prefab, collapsible, buildings. They are also expensive as fuck, being a TL12 design (allowing them to produce standard TL ships) and consisting of mostly ship grade parts.
The first module is a power module, able to power 7 modules (some count as 2 for power consumption purposes). This one is actually a modified cargo container (30 dtons). Class A starship grade fusion power plant, a fuel purifier, hoses, and power connectors. Added to it is a collapsible fuel tank for 26 tons, meaning that when in transport configuration, it holds almost 26.25 dtons of cargo.
The second is a refinery - 20dtons of ore refinement, and 10dtons of chemical refinement. Requires 3 workers per shift, produces 1dton of refined metal per shift and 0.5dtons of various chemicals per shift. It has no cargo capacity, so output must be taken to a nearby storage building for ores and into storage tanks for chemicals. Counts as two modules for power purposes. Ships as a 30dton container, with 3dtons of cargo space - the equipment cannot be condensed further for shipping without taking a few months to set up.
The manufacturing module is effectively 5 workshops, dedicated to crafting ship parts. Allows up to 10 workers per shift, each producing Cr1000 in ship components per man-hour (taking ores and chemicals equal to 110% of total component tonnage over the entire build process).

Say, where's that image from? Google's giving me nothing but a bunch of useless pinterest pages. (I hate pinterest so much right now)

(cont)
Manufacturing anything else is at Cr250/man-hour, if they have the blueprints on hand. Materials is at discretion, but should include up to 100% wastage. Counts as two modules for power. It ships as 3dtons for the building, and 10dtons for the equipment (requires two weeks setup)
The training module holds a library and simulator, with the remaining 22 dtons being set aside as a classroom (up to 15 students at once, +1 to Instruction. Allows breaking of rule against training of Instruction at twice preferred training rate). Ships as 10 dtons for building and components. Can train ship crews as well.
The final base module is the command - an Air Traffic Control/Base Control Center (treated as a 10dton bridge), a briefing room, a kitchen and set of freshers, with two offices left over. Ships as 8.5dtons for the entire module.

Construction of a ship, once components are available, takes 2 days per MCr1 of ship cost - no standard design discounts apply, unless a reliable source of offworld parts can be found.

Training workers takes the standard training time, plus 1 week per TL difference for basic equipment and concept familiarization. TL 6-8 adds 2 weeks, TL 3-5 adds 4 weeks, and TL 2- adds 8 weeks (TL0 cannot be truly trained, except for exceptional persons). If dealing with illiterate trainees, add an additional (10-INT) weeks to teach them that (so illiterate TL 1 trainees take 19 weeks to train, at 15 people per class, in addition to literacy). Skills required for workers are Engineer 0, Mechanic 0, and Physical Science 0. If a skill is at 1+, add Cr500 to output when producing relevant components, or for Physical Science, 1dton to ore refinement or .5dton to chemical output, per skill level above 0 (when producing non-ship equipment, add Cr250 to output).

(cont)
May construct additional modules or buildings (including habitat, cargo, fuel ,and various others like an actual construction hanger). Assume Cr120,000 for the buildings (for 30dton equivalent), plus 4dtons of materials for the building - and vary materials for components by x0.1 for basically empty shells, to x0.9 for heavy machinery. Components cost as normal for build consideration.

Manufacturing modules may be built differently - general modules produce Cr500 per man-hour, specialized ones (such as the standard one, or with a field such as Slug Weapons) produce Cr1000 in their specialty, Cr250 for others. Super Specialized (small ship parts, a particular piece of consumer equipment) produce CR1500 for that item ,and nothing else. Each module takes 20 days with the standard module at full blast.
Ship construction progresses at Cr500 per man-hour (up to 1 worker per shift per dton), starting with the hull - unless a construction hanger is created, there is no ability to build the ship one deck at a time. An actual shipyard must be constructed to allow
Ships up to 500dtons may be constructed on the surface, with orbital yards required for anything bigger.
The usual first project is a belter singleship, taking a bit under 74 days at full staffing (requires training 75 people first). With a secure source of materials, more workshops are the usual next step, along with more power modules. Eventually, the trainers help the locals construct a starship, which they then fly off in. Sometimes they take an additional team of people, plus the entire basic setup (constructed by the one they just finished up on),on said ship, to go off and do it again.
Sometimes they use this base of manufacturing to fulfill a life-long dream of conquering a world, or of unleashing raiders against their least-favorite interstellar government.
Sometimes the players are the raiders these burgeoning warlords have trained.

(cont, again)
THe modules ship with a database of public designs, plus some less-public standard designs (such as ship weapons) up to TL 12. Refined Prototypes of selected TL13 equipment is included in the plans (+25% costs, +50%tonnage/bulk), along with the same for a very limited selection of TL14 equipment (+50% to cost, +100% to tonnage/bulk). Neither actually includes combat equipment - obtaining those is almost impossible without a world of that TL nearby, and creating new plans for those TLs requires upgrading the manufacturing modules - and getting a database of TL13+ scientific/engineering knowledge.

>dead discord link

>using discord

>We're only a rotting corpse half the time

?

Why not hire the writers of the good fan-fic?

Looks like it's from one of the MGT2e books.

How does /TravG/ feel about electrothermic accelerators as weapons, or a gun that fires it's projectile by turning the propellant into plasma ?

And what about chemrails, the best of two worlds or just twice as stupid ?

Something like the weapon Chewbacca used? The crossbow that enveloped the quarrels with plasma?

I'm always good with more weapons, variety is the spice of life.

>Why not hire the writers of the good fan-fic?

Because the profits are minuscule. No one writes a splat to become rich. You might earn enough to replace your old tablet.

Besides good fan writers very often become "pros".

>How does /TravG/ feel about electrothermic accelerators as weapons, or a gun that fires it's projectile by turning the propellant into plasma ?

I'd love to see some stats for one. I also wonder whether they'd really be that different from what is already presented.

Guns and the the damage they inflict are represented by various D6 rolls. The user's ability to hit a target at various are also represented by various D6 rolls. Are the "mechanics" too "coarse" to model the difference between electrothermics and plain old chemical propellants?

Or would the difference between the two be more of weight/encumbrance thing than a aiming/damage thing? An electrothermic round would require less propellant because plasma gives you more of a 'bang". While you could possibly carry more rounds and load more into the gun for a given volume, you'd also need "battery" to "fire" the weapon.

So, are electrothermics really different enough to matter?

Are ETC and Binary propellant firearms covered in the BTRC Guns, Guns, Guns book?

>electrothermic accelerators
rad
>chemrails
double rad

So according to what I've read, there's multiple versions of Traveller. Which one should I pick as a complete beginner to Traveller?

Play Classic and please the ghosts of your ancestors
user is man now, user play man's game

Guns Guns Guns
sendspace.com/file/y3iic8

Let's bring Omega Cannons from Battlelords into Traveller

>Are ETC and Binary propellant firearms covered in the BTRC Guns, Guns, Guns book?

Good question, I don't know, and some kind user has given us a link to the book!

Your question is asked multiple times in each Veeky Forums. You're in luck, however, because this is the 1st time it's been asked in this thread!

The consensus recommends using Cepheus Engine (CE) at first. Then, once you've got a grasp of the thinking behind the game and it's mechanics, you can look at Classic and both versions of MgT. CE is derived from both Classic and MgT1e, so the "leap" from one to the others isn't that big.

Every version of Traveller is in the Archives, so there's no hurdles with regard to finding anything. Classic was designed to be modded and modding is a decades old practice in the Traveller community. Very few groups play any version RAW and most play versions they've stitched to together from several versions of the game and even from other games. For example, I've been using parts of Star Without Number for a few years now.

So, start with CE, move on to Classic/MgT, and then explore the rest. Borrow what you need or want, ignore what you don't, and you'll be playing like the rest of us do!

Other user here: What actually ARE the differences between CE and Mongoose/Classic? Anything to watch out for when converting?

Not him, and I've only skimmed it, but it looks like it's more a clone of MGT1 than anything.

>What actually ARE the differences between CE and Mongoose?

Better editing, for one thing

I have never used either MgT version in play so I can't give you specific answers. That being said:

- Classic has an IMPLIED task system. MgT has an explicit task system. You had to read through a bunch of Classic materials to derive something like Rule 68A out of them. Before MT, GDW never had a section saying "This is the task system" and instead relied on play examples. The fact that MgT has a specific section explains rolls and tasks was a great improvement IMHO.

- On average MgT gives away more stuff in chargen. Not just skills per se, but chances at various benefits and other things with the much expanded career path tables. Even advanced chargen in Classic has nothing like the various tables in MgT which reward the PC in various ways. Classic basically said "Here's what happened every term or year. Now make up a story that fits." while MgT says "Here's what happened every term or year. These tables will help you make up a story that fits." A subtle difference, but a difference all the same.

- MgT has more details for more careers than Classic and that's before you even begin to count the splats. Classic had 6 careers which initially used terms or 4 yrs. All those careers but "Other" got an "advanced" chargen using 1 year increments in each term. Classic then added 12 other careers but only at the basic level. ALL careers in MgT however have the same level of chargen detail.

Hmmm...do I merge 2100 with my traveller game or not? would it be a bad idea?

so, bad things mongoose has done

electrothermic accelerators is rather about replacing the gunpowder by, let's say, hydrogen and then pushing enough electorns through said hydrogen so it turns quickly into plasma and by expanding it's pushing the bullet out of the barrel.

But since, "gauss", "coil gun", "Tesla" and "Railgun" are all "cool" weapon buzzwords, yeah an ETA might be as well chewys crossbow.

I think the ACR is pretty much one of those, remember, it's not the technology used but the effect achived that's represented in the stats.
You can add a pinch of homebrewing/talking with your GM to achive a different feel, but fundamentaly the ACR could be as well an Chemrail or ETA gun.

what're the advantages of using plasma as the propellant?

We need a FAQ.

Cepheus Engine is a near-direct port of non-setting mechanics of Mongoose 1e, with a tiny bit of non-core material for 1e thrown in. Well, with some editing. It's not a bad system, and it's where most third party publishers are going to, because of Mongoose's awful business practices.

Which is a shame, since the changes in the mechanics for MgT 2e are, for the most part, pretty good, and in some cases very good.

Some kind user put my MgT 1e to 2e differences pdf thing up in the archive, but I doubt anyone's ever looked at that.

First and foremonst,
That you can actually control the speed of expansion via the amount power going through. So a ET weapon could be adjusted between firing bullets with the force of BB pellets and on the next shot with enough force to penetrate a brick wall.

Then, going with the hydrogen example, ammo would be pretty cheap, no fancy gunpowder or chemical propellant.

I've tried to find out how much the difference in densety between liquid/gas hydrogen and it's plasma state is, but i'm not a chemistry major, so no idea. I like to think that those bullets can go hella fast if you would want them to, but idk.

>Some kind user put my MgT 1e to 2e differences pdf thing up in the archive, but I doubt anyone's ever looked at that.

Quite to the contrary. It's mentioned in every Veeky Forums and often uploaded despite already being the Archive.

While it's a great overview of the differences between both Mongoose versions, it's NOT what both and asked about. The former wanted to know what version to start with and the latter wanted to know what differences there were between Classic and MgT.

>Hmmm...do I merge 2100 with my traveller game or not? would it be a bad idea?

A very bad idea. Traveller's ships are so much more capable and powerful than Orbital/2100's there's simply no way to mix them. A system with 2100 tech would adopt/buy Trav tech as quickly as possible and a single Trav ship could destroy a system-full of 2100 ships without breaking a sweat.

>I think the ACR is pretty much one of those,

That's what I'm thinking

>>remember, it's not the technology used but the effect achived that's represented in the stats.

And that's why.

Meh, subjective.
I find that most changes are just there for the sake of change.

There is the poorly implemented "take 3d6 and take the two better ones" youle when you have some poorly explained "advantage"
Vehicles have become considerably weaker to earlier editions and use hit points now, before that bringing a vehicle to a gun fight was a pretty big buff, even if just for additional defense, now it's okay-ish.

Also 2e is to my knowledge the edition with the strongest PCs, skill wise and in survivability also there are a lot more of bonuses flying around the players cant get. for some darn reason people shoot BETTER, as in:they get a bonus, at a certain distance

The new weapons distance mechanics are mostly to subjective tase, i liked it that distances stayed the same, unrelated to the type of weapon used and it was faster to run even for new players after some nights.

With the SMART weapon trait they fucked up hard time in understanding how TLs work.

the art is pretty shit desu
They have made their fair share of shit rules and the lack of third party support, together with poor marketing choices and the fact that the book costs twice as much in some places than 1e got mongoose pretty fucked.

But the important thing for you as Player/GM is to find the edition you can work best with and then start kitbashing.

>With the SMART weapon trait they fucked up hard time in understanding how TLs work

How? What is this? What does it do?

>But the important thing for you as Player/GM is to find the edition you can work best with and then start kitbashing.

And that's the truth.

smart: This weapon has intelligent or semi-intelligent
rounds that are able to guide themselves onto a target.
They gain a DM to their attack rolls equal to the
difference between their TL and that of the target, to a
minimum of DM+1 and a maximum of DM+6.

Before i start ranting, i want to remind everybody that TL is a very loose abstraction.

Which means that if you want to hit a car with your rocket launcher, it doens't matter if it's gas or electric, how fast it can go, how hard it can accelerate or whatever.
Let's assume we have a TL 12 smart rocketlauncher.
Now we want to shoot a TL 6 jet, poof +6 bonus
Shooting a TL 4 rolls royce ? poof +6 attack bonus.
Shooting a TL 9 smartcar? +3
Shooting a TL12 grav scooter that can go a max speed of 30 km/h, no bonus for you, the god of high-tech is protecting his children.

Basically they took something VERY vague and made some solid rules about that without thinking twice.

...that's retarded

Is CE compatible with the mongoose version of 2300AD?

like i said.

If anybody want's to download 2e from the archive and has fun with it, i really won't say anything negative about that. Having fun is basically the only real quality a TTRPG can have (and the sites of the book not giving you cancer).
But it has very clear flaws and if somebody brings it to my table i will have a stern talk with them.

yes, broadly

>...that's retarded

That's Mongoose.

It also shows how the "DM inflation" can quickly turn a critical roll into automatic success.

We're using 2D6, there's only 36 results spread across 12 whole numbers. You start adding DMs for this, that, and the other thing and suddenly there's no reason to roll at all. Sliding target numbers by invoking difficulty mods still doesn't obviate the fact that it's a 2D6 roll with a limited number of outcomes.

Well, you've got a point

why is this thread so dead?

Because no one is arguing about the unrealistic game mechanics of railguns?

Or just brew your own alcohol and visit a shooting range from time to time, that pleases most ancestors too, guess they can't be picky in times like these.

I like you.
Also for some reason now i have the picture of chemrail muskets in my mind, with those ancient batteries and blackpowder as propellant.
a weapon to surpass
calces metallum

Ok, other major mongoose fuckups...aslan art?

Ah, the "They kind of look like lions" to "they are, literally, Kilrathi" transformation.

Need to refuel after we hit the jump limit with the previous thread.

...trying to keep the thread alive, and I saw khajiit then again I knew TES before Niven's Known Space

Refined, or Unrefined?

I think we have one. What we need is an FRA (Frequently Read Answers)

Yeah, i mean i like the influx of people interested in Traveller but we should update the op with something along the lines of
"Fucking cepheus eingine, from there everything else is a short skip. hf, gl kitbashing"

It seems more active than ever, although it really is just a bunch of guys whining about Mongoose non-stop

What i really would like are some guides for kitbashing,like how the mechanics do work together , which are best, just some basic tips to decide which boojs to use to improve CE. Right now i try to find out if i can play 2300 with it without having to convert too much

t. Mongoose employee

Don't you have some editing to do?

no

Roll for competent ground crew...