/btg/ BattleTech General

thank you user, very helpful

Xotl, I know you're out of the BT game for the moment, but I got too bored at work and have cool ideas for once. I think you would like to know more.

So in my recent journey on researching Protomech (because for some reasons, I have a boner for mini mech recently), I discovered something that was honestly peculiar about Protomech construction.

Why is their engine built around the fact that it is based how much maximum speed they have, rather than the normal cruising speed?

Like, for example.

A 20 tons mech with 3/5 speed would use a 60 rating engine because 3 x 20 = 60

A 9 tons protomech with 3/5 speed would use a 45 because 9 x 5 = 45

This basically increase the amount of engine weight a protomech required for speed by quite a lot and restricting their firepower too.

It just, feels weird as to why they did this.

Because Protomech engines aren't mech engines. They're built smaller and less efficient/more heavy.

Come on, give them a break.

They don't have free heat sink and now requires a bigger engine size since decades ago?

Yep. Turns out you can only change the size of things so far before you start having to make engineering compromises.

Savannah Master clearly defy physic then.

That's why I put heavy medium lasers in them.

HMLfag strikes again! like the noble savannah master

4x10pts to the Center Torso per lance. They're so hated.

They do get breaks, it's in the rules of how they function and how their armor is allocated. A 3/5 9 ton proto is probably going more viable than a 3/5 battlemech. Engines are often the heaviest single thing on many units, that's just how BT works. And quad/glider protos get to subtract two from their speed for the purposes of engine rating calculation.

>A 3/5 9 ton proto is probably going more viable than a 3/5 battlemech
A 3/5 20 ton battlemech, I mean.

>Come on, give them a break.

What, like no pilot skill rolls, Near Miss hit locations, and the ability to fight on without their heads?

...

Compare them with compact engines calculated the normal way from the engine rating table.

The protomech technobabble is 95% nonsense.

So I rolled a two-lance starter unit for a 3028 AtB campaign.

>Warhammer
>Rifleman
>two Phoenix Hawks
>Shadow Hawk-H
>Locust
>two Stinger-Gs, one of which is a custom job

I can just feel the RNG giving me the evil eye. I bet the first contract's got a 10% salvage rate as well.

After 1st contract if the Warhammer is alive, make it into 6D-variant, it will make it more survivable by adding armor and removing MGs and the SRM.
Oh and atleast you didn't roll a Crusader, those go boom by someone looking at it badly.

Sell the shadow hawk, replace with a Wolverine 6M instead. Alternatively, just tear out the AC-5 and replace with a PPC and replace the garbage weapons with heatsinks and armour.

The stingers are trash, sell them and get locusts instead.

Not terrible advice, if he's doing a lot of raiding the stingers hands might be handy.

Wolverine 6ms are beast intro tech.

I was just reading the Reunification War and Liberation Of Terra books, and it's got me wondering.
What if one of the Great Houses told the Terrain Hegemony to go fuck itself when they were shopping around the Star League idea, and lined up with the other team when Reunification War time came?
How different would battletech history end up looking?

Oh no, this is 3028 so family 'Mechs and all that. No selling those. The salvaged giant robots are fair game though.

And miraculously the two laser Stingers got through the first two battles with all their bits intact.

The Crusader exiting the stage in a fireball is a familiar sight to me, but sometimes, just sometimes, you see pic related. No boom today, boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

Well the Great House would have been invaded by SLDF led by that General "Murder everyone and their children" and every other Great House would have been invited to grab as much planets as they could.

I still can't believe he got away scot free. When I read about him the first time, I thought he'd be getting some "see you at de party, Richter" ending, but no.

Really, really depends on which great house said 'fuck it', and what, if any alliances they made with what periphery states once it was nuts on the table ride or die time, because every combination of those two factors is going to produce very different outcomes

The Star League such as it would be in the is scenario probably wouldn't even bring up the idea of roping in the periphery yet. They'd likely wholly take on the errant house, then years later after making sure that's secure go after the periphery.

The big question is what exactly would happen to the house. Internal house politics being what they often are, I think the most likely scenario would be the nation still exists but with ruling family deposed and one of the other noble lines who are far more cooperative being put in charge.

Michael Ironside?!

Yes. That was from the era where they did that stuff on purpose and just shaded over pictures of celebrities instead of making proper portraits.

My first thought, on seeing that picture back then, was exactly that. And not surprising, since the art of the period was shamelessly filled with portraits of real people. Check out Era Report 3052 to see such luminaries as Hanse James Tiberius Kirk and Grayson Death Rod Stewart-Carlyle.

And Sean Connery of Wolf'sh Dragoonsh

Does anything like hardpoints from MWO exist in the tabletop for building mechs? My group really likes building their own mechs but right now it seems like the type of mech doesn't matter just the tonnage.

No. Building from scratch you can do whatever the hell you want. It's all tonnage and crits. The hardpoint'ish stuff is in customization where refit levels and rolls determine how hard it is to do a particular something. Which is honestly like it is in MWO. You're not making new things from scratch, you're customizing existing machines. They just put a hard cap on the refit level there.

Oh yeah, forgot about him. But say what you will about the ER3052 art, it makes Shin Yodama look like a 12 on the 1-10 hard bastard scale.

... and Lori Kalmar?

I had such a crush on her when I was a lad. When I bought Gray Death Legion... instant fav mercenary unit.

I honestly don't see the resemblance in this one.

You can always houserule it. I've discussed it with players before; it actually adds a bit of realism to the game, and reigns in all kinds of crazy customization shit. Thing is, going full MWO is bad, because the main issue is that 'ballistics hardpoint' means jack and shit all, really. Why? Because changing a Machine Gun for a Gauss Rifle would be just as hard as swapping that same Machine Gun for a Medium Laser. Do it like they do on fighter jets. Each 'Mech has hardpoints in the locations were the stock 'Mech has weapons. They are specifically designed, actual HARDPOINTS reinforced to accept weapon mounts and the shocks of firing and using them. Then vary the number of points the 'Mech has in those locations by quality and manufacture. The Vindicator, for example, is very cheap. So it only has hardpoints for each weapon it already has, and no extra reinforcement to accept other weapons, which is why there aren't many variants that do anything but straight weapon swap, and that's why it's a budget machine. Something like the Battlemaster might have a few hardpoints on each of its arms, in addition to the several on the upper torso, which can accommodate a lot of additional configurations and customization, allowing for more flexible loadouts. OmniMechs are the epitome of this design philosophy, and have their entire structure hardened to accept weapon pods easily and in any configuration.

>I honestly don't see the resemblance in this one.

It helps if you've seen Police Academy 4.

I have, like a long-ass time ago. It's not really at the forefront of my thoughts. I guess I can see it, but the art's eyes are quite different so I guess it didn't pop too much to me. The hair sure as hell doesn't do it because it's just '80s chick hair' and pretty generic. I mean, I'll take everyone's words for it because they seriously did copy a ton of celebs for famous players in BattleTech back in the day, it just doesn't pop for me like the rest.

She did a nude scene... with one of the Quaids. You have a hot chick... with a Quaid. I get conflicting signals inside....

Yeah that's a bit strange. Hopefully it was Dennis, not Randy. Randy seems like a nice guy but he's... not exactly good looking.

I think it was Dennis. You can look for it on one of the free pron sites a while back. I think it's still there, and from there you probably could find the movie on pirate bay.
Past that. she had a pretty bangin' ass figure and wasn't no DFC chick. 3D wasn't PD in that case.
I should stay the hell away from /a/ while I'm at it.

Sorry to disappoint, but it was Randy, in a made-for-cable golf movie called "Dead Solid Perfect".

Hell, he was right. It becomes... a little cringe worthy too.

Ew.

MegaMek posted a screenshot on their Facebook page of new work -- spacecraft builder.

Raisley, wherever he is, unequivocally BTFO.

Really, it's all he has, along with Protos. Once MML can do SC/DS/JS/WS and Protos, all of the HeavyMetal programs will be completely eclipsed.

Speaking of Era Report 3052 character art, Aidan Pryde looks like he's a member of the High-Tech Special Forces Unit FOXHOUND.

Well we have that fan TRO with a Metal Gear Rex in it, mission time!

What trove is that? Sounds interesting.

I think this is it.
mediafire.com/file/whl2y9ewc1ygbs9/-btg-_compilation_(2).pdf

youtube.com/watch?v=CqGi-RfC3p8

it looks slick as hell.

Who is Aidan modeled after by the way? Michael Biehn is closest that I can think,but not quite there.

>Who is Aidan modeled after by the way?

Is the artwork recent enough to be based on Tom Cruise as Ethan Hunt from Mission Impossible? The first movie came out in 1996.

Definitely. Era Report 3052 came out in 2010.

LAMS and glider protos should be in the next release as well.

I got two questions:
1. Targeting with lasers. Lasers are supposed to be at the speed of light, so why can't medium and small lasers have the short range and medium range abilities like the large laser?

EXAMPLE: - Small Laser -
Short 1-3
Medium nothing
Long nothing

Medium Laser -
Short 1-5
Medium 6-9
Long nothing

If they used targeting equipment or whatever from ER lasers, couldn't the ranges be recalculated then? Could a laser type be made called "RT Laser" for Re-Targeted Laser using the advanced targeting gear for the largest laser, with the penalties being the lasers weigh more or use more spaces in a mech?

2. What type of explosive is used in autocannon and missile rounds? I thought I read in one of the older scenario books that there is a type of explosive that isn't triggered by fire. A Griffin pilot tossed some explosives into a fire or something on a bet and got in trouble for it, even though it didn't explode. The basic question is what type of explosive explodes during an ammunition crit that responds to fire, lasers, machine gun rounds or particle cannons and such?
If missile and AC rounds used that explosive, couldn't ammo crits be let damaging?

A laser is just intensified visible light energy. As it passes through particulate matter in the atmosphere, it will diffuse and lose power.

It could be anything. But they would be triggered by primers or fuses being struck or touched off due to shock, heat, or secondary explosives. Or the explosive used in the rounds doesn't detonate with a ammo crit, but the primer/fuse does, and within a confined area that will generate enormous amounts of pressure. To give you an idea, the average 5.56x45 round generates a force of around 40-50,000 PSI inside the case. Imagine much more explosive power inside a not exponentially bigger area.

>A laser is just intensified visible light energy. As it passes through particulate matter in the atmosphere, it will diffuse and lose power.
Okay that I knew, but the thing is you can use that one rule that makes lasers more powerful in short range and less in long range. I use this rule all of the time. It's the targeting that has me curious.

The explosive thing makes more sense, thank you. So even if the explosives used in AC and missile rounds was the same as that one explosive that doesn't explode in fire, other physical events could set off the fuses... okay got it.
I still don't understand how MG ammo is so powerful it outdoes several tons of AC and missile ammo though.

It's one of the mysteries of BT man was not meant know. I, for one, just lean back and enjoy the big numbers once something brews up like in that gif. And son of a bitch, I still haven't topped this, not in Megamek or on the tabletop.

Is it not just because there are more rounds so it is several thousands of rounds potientially going off, even if they are not the same size probably has more shrapnel and other things in it.

>1. Targeting with lasers. Lasers are supposed to be at the speed of light, so why can't medium and small lasers have the short range and medium range abilities like the large laser?

Realism aside, you'd throw game balance completely out of whack by giving all lasers no range brackets. Energy weapons are objectively better than practically everything else in the game. They don't need the help.

With that said, somebody (NEA, I think) was toying around with something that messed with esome tonnage/criticals, and more importantly completely revised how weapon ranges work. See pic related.

I've played around a little bit with it, and I prefer how this works over normal Battletech. The weapons are more balanced this way and everything has a clear niche that rewards you for using it in the niche. NEA has this idea where he say that the most important thing in a wargame is to force the player to make decisions, and this does force that.

Diffusion would cause targeting issues. Eventually the laser would lose enough power to actually do more than scuff paint, at least to a 'mech.

Even in the 31st century, a MG would still use nitrocellulose. They do work in a vacuum due to included oxidizer, and nitrocellulose (better known as smokeless gunpowder) will explode under heat or sufficient force. Each "round" of MG ammo is likely several dozen to hundred, given the sheer cyclical rate of most HMGs.

IIRC somebody did the math on MG rounds, and I think he said one burst of MG rounds was about 11.2 pounds. I don't know /k/ related stuff, but I wondered how many bullets that could be which could ruin an eighth of a ton of standard armor and at a lucky burst kill 12 infantrymen.

>about 11.2 pounds

5kg, since you get 200 shots out of 1t of ammo. A complete .50 calibre round (Stackpole was and is keen on this calibre) weighs about 100 grams, so one "shot" would be 50 rounds downrange. So that 1t of chest bomb in your 'Mech would be 10,000 rounds of live ammo ready to go off.

And 50 rounds in 6 seconds would be roughly equivalent to a RPM matching the air-cooled M2, which is between 450-600RPM. And every shot made during a round isn't going to be a solid stream, it'll be a few bursts.

Do you mean 10 seconds (the length of a round)?

Personally, with the new art and the rule about MG rapid-fire modes, I'm leaning towards at least the Sperry Browning on Warhammers and Locusts to be a Gatling like the GAU-19 (three-barrel .50 calibre) where you can dial in your desired ROF at the risk of overheating.

According to the most recent blueprints, the Mad Cat has 20mm machine guns, and if the prints are in scale, the Warhammer's torso guns have a similar barrel diameter. So CGL probably upscaled the weapons again.

>Do you mean 10 seconds (the length of a round)?
Er, unless I'm mistaken a single round is 6 seconds.

>Personally, with the new art and the rule about MG rapid-fire modes, I'm leaning towards at least the Sperry Browning on Warhammers and Locusts to be a Gatling like the GAU-19 (three-barrel .50 calibre) where you can dial in your desired ROF at the risk of overheating.
There are several vehicle MGs that are gatling. And different caliber sizes, too -- some are 14mm, so something approaching the KPV, and I believe there's a few that are 20mm.

>>Er, unless I'm mistaken a single round is 6 seconds.
Incorrect, a round is 10 seconds from start to finish.

Yep, and the Scorpion tank has had a 20mm Gatling MG since the early times, so different calibres are sort of a must.

In fact, given the various autocannon shell sizes given in the books, like the Marauder's Whirlwind being described as 50mm or 120mm, I'm thinking the various gun manufacturers do their guns in different calibres to suit a customer's demands like the Bushmaster of today (you can get it in 25mm, 30mm and 35mm). So if you want a 50mm calibre Whirlwind for your Marauder, you can specify you want it and GM will ship one for you, or the same with a 120mm. Rules wise it'll be the same, since it's still an AC/5 that blats out 50kg of shells per "shot".

So that's the meaning of the AC/5, than can spew 50kg of ammo per "shot"? Dang I'm a brainlet.

Aye, the AC/5 is 5 damage for 50kg of ammo. It could be a long burst of 30mm or the GM Whirlwind 120's three-round burst of 120mm, doesn't matter except in fluff. An AC/2 would shoot ~22.2kg worth of shells, an AC/10 100kg, and an AC/20 200kg.

that's the weight of one salvo in your magazine. You forgot the case and propellant in your calculation. The actual mass which left the rifle is lower.

I counted it that way because without knowing what sort of ammo and what calibre they're firing, you can only count by the weight of the complete round. As an example, I'm only familiar with the 120mm Leo gun, but if you bang out a DM53 sabot, it's a ~8kg projectile that leaves the barrel, whilst with a DM12 HEAT it's ~12kg. In either case, you're using a single "shot" of around 21kg.

you and Munnin promised another /btg/TRO preview for May. it has been 4 months. What happened?

Unfortunately, Muninn decided to move to France in May, and was out of contact for a fair bit. I don't like making excuses, but I have been hounding Muninn now that he's back so hopefully we can get something soon. If not, I'll find out why and explain.

I need to e-mail catalyst to see if they're totally folding on buying short fiction or if they've got more limited plans in the works in the future - since there was no official announcement regarding Battlecorps folding. I had a requested revision out with Battlecorps so I'm in limbo now.

Thing is, I have no idea just what the relationship between InMediaRes and Catalyst was - should I be contacting them, or someone else...? I just need a confirmed "yeah we're not interested in that" before I toss away a potential sale.

thanks for the reply, man

IMR is the parent company of CGL. They're owned by the exact same people.

The Battlecorps Compilations have been my favorite battletech books the last few years and the only substitute for real paper novels. I want them to do fucking something with that again. They haven't even published the one from last year in paper. It's ridiculous!

>Aye, the AC/5 is 5 damage for 50kg of ammo. It could be a long burst of 30mm or the GM Whirlwind 120's three-round burst of 120mm, doesn't matter except in fluff. An AC/2 would shoot ~22.2kg worth of shells, an AC/10 100kg, and an AC/20 200kg.

This is why autocannon designations are technically just a "class" of autocannon - the universe is assumed to contain a mad proliferation of ammo types and cannon designs, but the engineering trade-offs are assumed to always impose the same dynamics. So long-range autocannons do less damage, high damage ones have short range, etc.

It certainly fits the universe well; allows for there to be a realistic mass proliferation of weapons without it creating a rules nightmare. It even fits more realistic campaigns and fluff considerations; Succession Wars workhorses often survived because they had broad parts commonality/compatibility and/or they were modified to use said parts, and parts manufacturers would've engineered with an eye towards broad compatibility as well. But that Star Leauge era machine with all the gee-whiz tech was last serviced in an era where you could order anything you needed via Space Amazon, so servicing it's a nightmare at best and a hideously expensive custom fab-job order at worst.

I'm mega pissed off about not knowing whether Battlecorps is still drawing breath or not. I've found out that nothing helps with a writer's block like grinding out some giant robot fights, and I'd like to submit some of that shit to them.

I vaguely remember in one of the mechwarrior campaigns you end up getting a clanner as a bondsman. How often did that (IS factions taking bondsmen) happen, and were they treated as anything related to how other clanners would or just as PoWs?

>IMR is the parent company of CGL. They're owned by the exact same people.

... ah. Derr. I'm dumb, then. IMR doesn't seem to have a website, so I guess I'll just email Catalyst customer support and ask politely.

>The Battlecorps Compilations have been my favorite battletech books the last few years and the only substitute for real paper novels.

Absolutely! I'm kind of curious if they're going to continue publishing those, even without the whole e-zine approach. They might not've received enough quality submissions to keep up volume for an e-zine, but a regular anthology would be another story. If they're planning on that, I'd want a crack at it.

>A Griffin pilot tossed some explosives into a fire or something on a bet and got in trouble for it, even though it didn't explode.
Question, just explosives? Or an AC projectile? Or a whole AC shell?

As for explosives, there are contemporary examples which don't explode in a fire, with C4 being the most common example. The fumes aren't healthy, but you can make a camp fire with those bricks. If something similar is used in AC projectiles, they're good to burn too unless their primer is sensitive to heat in some way.

A whole AC shell would be a different beast. The propellant can cook off just fine and blow the whole place to hell, especially when the projectile meets sufficient resistance to trigger.

Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries, and you making a bondsman out of the snooty Jade Falcon Star Colonel?

And yes, it did happen - one of the books explicitly said that the IS forces took Clanners as prisoners, were confused when they expected to be taken as bondsmen, and then serving their new "clans" loyally. Can't remember which book it was, though.

Uncommon, though I suppose if you fought honorably by Clan standards, they'd accept it happening. As for PoW treatment, if they refused getting accepted as a bondsman, we have presume they got treated like regular PoWs.

I direct you to "Clan Snord"

>I vaguely remember in one of the mechwarrior campaigns you end up getting a clanner as a bondsman. How often did that (IS factions taking bondsmen) happen, and were they treated as anything related to how other clanners would or just as PoWs?

Seemed to be common enough, if they were impressed by their performance. The fact that the Clans offered batchall to Inner Sphere forces at all is significant - they were willing to engage under the highly formal rules of their own culture against people they considered little better than barbarians is surprising. But that's Clan Honor, I guess - with the oft-lamented exceptions noted, they're still willing to treat everyone equally based on their own principles.

Unless they're Smoke Jags. Heh.

>one of the books explicitly said that the IS forces took Clanners as prisoners, were confused when they expected to be taken as bondsmen, and then serving their new "clans" loyally. Can't remember which book it was, though.
I think it was the one in the second Combine-GB war. The recount of Star Commander Leeta. Can't remember the name either.