How different would be a civilization whose species evolved from Ambush Predators instead of persistent pursuit...

Look around mate.

Humans actually fit into or mimic almost every type of predation pattern observed on this planet hence our success.

Without agriculture there's no purpose to or want for civilization. So anything that only derives its food from ambush would just behave like tigers do on earth.

Perhaps they would figured out that domesticating animals and then plants is a cheaper and more efficient to do it faster. Still, I wonder if they could work/fight even half as much as a human having less necessity for evolving efficient heat-management and persistence.

Well, not really. It depended.

An interesting thing is that as a species we are prone to what other species of mammals would think of "long", without even being nomadic. And that might a great part of civilization as we know it, actually.

Pic more or less related, damned space jew-lions.

long journeys

Except lions and hyenas are also ambush predators and work in packs. They also practice polyphilia on opposite sides of the coin.

I disagree with this, you'd find alot more tribalism.

Society is required for significant technology, anything precisely machined is simply beyond a small family group.

Assuming there is at least one civilization amongst the species, it would have defined customs such as property rights and right if passage - if most land is ancestrial, for example, there must be an established mechanism for transferral and safe conduct, even if it's just the exchange of breeding material.

Native Americans didn't have property rights, did they?

That's something for capitalism, not the intelligence of a civilization.

>Indians
>Civilization

Well, at least they weren't 4channers.

It's bullshit, a noble savage myth.

That's an interesting point, our use of pro-longed stamina, is it to that we owe being able to work hard for long periods of time to do necessary but tedious physical labour?

Would another race be able to keep up?

>You will never grab those two horns and force cow girl to drink all of the "milk"

What a disappointing world.

Well, cows and horses are pretty good at long labour as well. I dare to say dogs as well

Also goat best grill

if that mean they are less enduring , then it might change the way they work a lot, and consequently the kind of civilization they form. slavery wouldn't have much point if a slave could only work few hours a day for example. on the other hand that might foster the need for domestication.

I would argue that their biology would effect the species psychology.
IE:An pursuit predator would be far more stubborn and unlikely to give up than an ambush predator, but ambush predators would by and large be far more patient, and willing to wait.

Dog/Wolf people. Wolves are also pursuit predators, and pack predators at that.

Yes, not as sophisticated as today, the issue was abstraction and shitty translators.

The five nations were a prime example.

Goat a slut.

Wing Commander IV was the worst.

Nazi Germany would be the norm.

The fuck are you hunting birds?
Proto-humans hunted during the time of the mammal mega-fauna. Some prey didn't even run.

>didn't have property rights, did they?
Not the same sense as the Europeans, but they they did scalp other Indians they didn't like when they entered their territory.

>Well, at least they weren't 4channers.
Ever seen their art? Fucker are shitposters of the highest degree.

Less marches and sieges? Perhaps society's are less willing to go for attrition warfare, so wars are one after the first major victory?

more laid back?

Probably not. If a gorilla, for example, tried to exert itself daily like a human male (that gives a shit) does in the gym it'd keel over and die.

Sleep 16 hours. Work 4 hours.

What about the other 4 hours?

Edgy poetry slams.

Gazing out at things that are happening outside the window and sex.

There would be no civilization.

Hell, there would probably no culture (an an anthropologic sense) either. Ambush predators don't need to get things organised. They don't need to communicate. They form family packs at best, are solitary at worst. That means there is absolutely no drive to communicate in any meaningful way, because all you do is just ambushing the animal and killing it on spot.

Even if you would have a culture out of it, it would NEVER exceed a stone age and hunting activity. Not even gathering, probably, since gathering of food requires means of communicating what to eat and what to avoid on steady and reliable way. And we are talking about a species that would never develop such tool first.

tl;dr - without all the organisation needed for persistent pursuit it's highly unlikely to get any form of communication aside animal calls, and without any sort of language, you are fucked at IQ of 40. You can't even properly organise your though pattern, because you have no concept of language.
Good luck developing civilization without such skill.

The real question is:
Cat or Goat?

Goat. Because the horns can be used as head handles.

You should look up the birch canoe trade in the Pacific Northwest prior to European colonization. They had economic schemes that would put today's plutocrats to shame.

Dog.

They'd institute welfare that quickly?

Bunny, you pleb.

Bunny looks like body-building midget without any body proportions at all.

>le octopus meme
Stop it, octopi aren't that clever than for example ants or wolves or crows.

...

The entire society would be slow. Patient. Things would take time, and nobody would rush anything, at least compared to now. Tradition would, as it was in our society, be extremely central to everything, since they ways of hunting and ambushing prey would be the first great important tradition, and being an exact, mentally taxing science, would be absolutely bogged down in methodology. A great many things would be as such, in time.

Technology and progress would be different due to the differing needs of the creature in question. As was mentioned, traps would be more important than hand-held weapons, since the sedentary nature of the species wouldn't require things to be portable, or at least easily so. So you'd see advancements early on in mechanisms, leverage, pulleys, spring tension and other such forces, and technological advancements would proceed along those lines. Since man-portable weapons would be of least importance in this development stage, the plethora of traps as they apply to warfare and protection of one's self and property mean actual war is rare. Conflict is, in general, very rare. Communities settle things with a combination of time and talk, because said communities would have sprung up around the realization that small groups making many traps and working together to fell large prey ate better and survived more easily. So they would naturally form over time, supplanting the traditional solitary lifestyle the earliest examples of the species exhibited. However, because of the lethargic nature of their culture, these creatures wouldn't advance much beyond what 'works' because there isn't a need to. They are not terribly driven, and they are ambush predators so their metabolisms are suited to languishing and short bursts of fervent activity, followed again by long lazy periods, and so on. So the least that needs to be done, the best. I agree they would likely stagnate at stone age technology. There simply isn't any need for it.

dat bait doe

>birch canoe trade
Got any books I can read on that?

Or a species whose brain operated mostly in serial, rather than parallel.

The portia spider can pull off some cat level stuff, but not at cat pace, with a brain smaller than a grain of rice.

So they really require time spent thinking, and may have to react to immediate problems in animal-like ways, even if they can make plots that are more intricate than any humans. The most powerful would have guards who focus on short-term problems of keeping them alive as they process a long term plan.

>implying crows aren't more clever than middle school children, let alone octopi

How did you manage to manufacture that from what I said? Pretending to be retarded is still being a retard, user.

>no ambush predator gf

Well if crows didn't evolve into more intelligence than the have how would octopi do it? No man

>serial
>parallel
>spider brains

Explain, I want to know more.

>Running for an hour and a half uses more calories than are in a gazelle
Uhhh

The pursuit style of hunting implies exhausting the prey over the course of days, not hours. So one could expend over 3000 calories a day walking to tire a prey animal out. But you also have a point that a gazelle is going to offer tens of thousands of calories in foodstuffs, so it's still quite worth it. You should just become better acquainted with why you are right about it.

>Well if crows didn't evolve into more intelligence than the have how would octopi do it? No man

Let's start that sentence again, reword it so that it makes sense.

Well we tried sending them back but it's all welfare this and white women that

>How different would be a civilization whose species evolved from Ambush Predators instead of persistent pursuit predators (humans)?

People who think all persistence predators caught their prey by chasing them until they died from dehydration are retarded. You can see how it actually works just by observing the humble gila monster: wound a prey animal, and track it as it both bleeds out and becomes exhausted. When the opportunity arises to secure a killing blow, take it.

Yes, there ARE hunters who chased animals until they died from exhaustion. No, they WEREN'T the most-used form of hunting.

Where did I mention it dying from exhaustion? You exhaust it so you can kill it with a spear or arrow much more easily and safely. It's not my fault you decided to fabricate things and try to add them to my argument to make yours seem better; you should probably just get better at arguing in the first place. Acting this smugly superior when you've made so grave an error just makes you look pathetic, man.

Many feline species are highly social despite being ambush predators.

Solo ambush predators could never form a society and would probably never have the biology to use tools. They would not have institutional memory allowing them to progress as a 'civilization' They would never form a civilization at all.

Cats don't use tools and their social activities don't get any more complex then 'play' and 'hunt together'. It's pretty rare for ambush predators to form social groups, but not impossible. There are a lot of steps after that, dedicated predators couldn't form societies at all. They would overhunt and starve.

You need farming for civilization. Humans are pursuit predators second and gatherers first.

Nah, I don't believe they'd be incapable of tool use. Certain species of spider already gather foliage together to form camoflage. It's not a particular stretch of imagination to propose a bird pushing rocks out of a tree onto some kind of shelled critter, either.

That's not tool use anymore than a hermit crab uses a tool. It's not a conscious extension of the body via another object, it's just nesting. It's a pretty thin line but its super important and implies all kinds of things about brain development.

Also, if you want a bird that uses tools ravens and crows do. There's a lot past tool use that allows one to form a society.

You basically need hands, the ability to farm, the ability to make fire, and the ability to transmit information via sound.

I was just arguing against the idea that ambush predators would not have the biology to use tools.

Say, aren't octopi ambush predators?

>Say, aren't octopi ambush predators?

Not really, they mostly just eat shellfish who can't escape and rely on their shells to dissuade predators. Orcas are probably the smartest ambush predator in the sea, but i'm not sure that really counts as ambush at that point.

Octopi are smart but don't seem to be social in the slightest and have very strange brains that scientists tend to think are pretty flowcharty but maybe aren't fully 'intelligent'. They've been around a hell of a lot longer than we have and never formed a societal group that we know of.

The problem with an ambush predator forming a society is that very few of them are social, so you have a very thin pool of predators to chose from who are likely all going to be pack hunters who use speed. Probably land based and four legged. That mostly is going to preclude tool use and thus farming and thus the ability to actually form societies of more than a few dozen members.

Ideally you want an herbivore, or at least an omnivore. Pure predators can likely never form their own civilizations even if they have the brain mass to do so.

What are different types of predation?

Persistence Hunting, Ambushing, etc., are there any number of categories for them?

This guy Watts

Cat. Goat probably smells terrible once sweaty.

It's not grouped like that at all. You would need a behavioural zoologist, rather than using some sort of rigid taxonomy.

tan skinned white haired yellow eyed animu girls are really the best

who is this goat
there is any porn of her?

>no one wants horse and cow

FUCKING PLEBS

Indians had compex civilizations and made complex structures. American Indians weren't as big on building as the Aztecs but their constructions were so impressive that settlers literally refused to believe the Indians made them. Instead, they hypothesized a bunch of non-existent progenitor groups.

Just because a society does not resemble Western Christian capitalism does not mean they are not advanced.

>yfw

They would probably accidently smother you to death with those tits. Not exactly everyone's fetish.

user is asking the questions that matter.

well, let's see what we can find behind that particular image - author's name is a good start

It's mine.

That girl with the ice-cream cone. Too precious.

Que?

>Replying to a bait
American daytime hours already started?

As far as I know, the practise of scalping originated with the European settlers when- and wherever there was a bounty on every dead Indian. It was simply far more efficient to remove the skin and hair off the head than to carry around body parts, or even entire corpses. Also a lot less smelly.

wow
post more
this bunny looks like the karate girl of one manwa i ve read.

Any way to prove that, since written records weren't really a thing pre-European settlement iirc

Not him, but scalping is pretty hard and time consuming without metal knives

Aight, I'll buy that. Which leads me to a question I've wondered for a while. Why did metallurgy never take off in Americas? What were the factors that lead Europe, Middle East, and Asia to develop metalworking?

>Why did metallurgy never take off in Americas?
Aztecs and other Mesoamerican and South American civilizations actually had metalworking, albeit only at copper and bronze age tech in different areas. As far as I know, they were extensively used for decoration and jewelry.

Quite a few factors, really. For example Mexico is super-rich in copper... that can't be assessed without at least late 19th century mining technology. Then comes "bog iron", aka the iron ore source mostly used by everyone around the world till end of 17th century. There is none of it in regions with permanent settlements of Native Americans, despite there being super-rich sources of it all the way around East Coast of USA. And so on and forth.
It ALWAYS boils down to the exact same thing: lack of native copper or very, very small amounts of it, tin, zinc and iron being either unaccessable or in uninhabitated areas and silver requring at least basic mineshaft technology. Combined with fact that there was nobody to show locals how use resources they already had at hand (like East Coast tribes and smelting iron from the plentiful bog iron) and you end up with situation that people who could figure out iron smelting and forging on their own didn't have ore and people who had ore were nomadic hunter-gatherers with no reason to figure smelting out.
The biggest irony is that Inuits had access to meteorite iron and were familiar with hammering techniques for it, but meteorite iron being so fucking rare thing in the first place made it a luxury for them.

tl;dr - not enough resources to go past cold hammering of gold and copper

Said all that, once they DID get familiarised with iron, they quickly went their way with it.

For me always the biggest irony comes down to horses, which were only brough by Europeans. Can you even imagine Praire tribes without horses?
Most of the tribes had none till mid 1700s and then adopted them in blitzing speed, completely reworking their societies around horse usage.

They had already suffered multiple social collapses, the aztecs were about to find a massive rebellion when Cortez arrived.

The Inca were gearing up, but the scarce workable material meant slower development.

Hell the Musica used wax molds for their goldsmithing.

I just finished reading 'Guns, Germs and Steel'. He said it's because there were no domesticable animals (besides the llama) and less domesticable plants that weren't as good so food production wasn't centralized as quickly, diffusion of technology was harder because you have to go north to south as opposed to Eurasia's East to West, and less total time in the area. The people weren't stupid, it's just that humans weren't evolving alongsides mammals like they were in the Old World and so they exterminated the large mammals in the New World when they got there as their tool use had advanced enough that the mammals couldn't adapt. If I recall, Mesoamerica was actually making iron tools but very little and poor. I believe Jared Diamond said that if given 3000 more years, the New World would've developed to the level of the Old Worlders.

Going by how cats do it? 2-3 hours of real work, and lots of rolling around, and maybe sleep the entire night plus darkness. And mandatory lunch siestas.
If they developed far enough, they would be ultra chill.
And a stupid amount of planning, because otherwise you can't accomplish much with the little energy you have for high power work.

Because if you find some tracks, and just keep pursuing, hunting lesser game and sleeping less than the prey, you outpace it quite fast.
It doesn't even need to be a high speed just, just denying it the opportunity to rest properly.
No seriously, tracking a barely sticking arrow wound for 2-3 days is a viable strategy, and the prey is barely wounded from that.