Why do you dislike the best race in D&D? Is it because you are a weak human without any honour?

Not but mammaries are the only mammal-specific body part I see.

I dislike them because they're nothing I want them to be.

What they should have been was a playable equivalent of a Half-Dragon, where you can choose your special snowflake color and RP what it would be like to be a human who also feels the need to compulsively hoard treasure, or freeze your food for the winter, or tell insufferable jokes to people in your house.

But they're brown, fedora-tipping Dwarf-Orcs with a fucking stupid backstory that barely even makes sense after all the 4e changes got retcon'd

>What they should have been was a playable equivalent of a Half-Dragon, where you can choose your special snowflake color and RP what it would be like to be a human who also feels the need to compulsively hoard treasure, or freeze your food for the winter, or tell insufferable jokes to people in your house.

They don't do this? In 5e you choose a color when you make one and it determines your breath weapon and all that jazz.

>you can choose your special snowflake color
wait, i'm pretty sure you've always been able to do that
>RP what it would be like to be a human who also feels the need to compulsively hoard treasure
isn't that how all murderhobos act?
>after all the 4e changes got retcon'd
okay wait, do you mean the changes done by 4e, or the changes to 4e dragonborn by 5e, because the latter explicitly lets you pick a type of dragon to be related to, and the former never stopped you from roleplaying that as the explanation for your character.

The race has a lot of potential, but that is completely ignored in favour of dragon furries. Elves in a lot of settings have the same problem.

They seem really dumb, like Hasbro realized everyone liked making Half Dragon mary sue characters so they westerndev up some retarded abomination saying "SEE GUYS WE LISTENED"

now i get players who want to play as one and i have to figure out how to incorporate this mess into some kind of reasonable world

What kind of personality traits could a blue dragonborn inherit through ancestry?

Half orcs come with baggage, tho, and until 4e, were objectively shit compared to playing a regular orc in almost all respects.
I do like regulated dragonborn because it strips away the snowflake aspect. martial excellence and honor without the side of being a brute, you can have some of the dragon aspects without being bound to them.
This seems sorta silly to me.
You are worried about dragonborn with all the other oddball races out there? I have more issues with kobolds because most players have the same intent behind them.

It's impossible to put dragonborn into a low-magic setting, if you're doing a low-magic setting, straight up tell your players they're not allowed to play dragonborn

In a high magic setting, there's loads of ways to incorporate them, 4e's standard means was to have them as the survivors of a fallen empire, respected, but very rare. I personally like to make them an artificial race. The form of a humanoid dragon lends itself well to that, either slaves created by dragons to do small scale tasks like artificing or maintenance, or soldiers created by humanoid races to have the power of a dragon in a form that is more easily controlled

kobolds have a good place in the world, the alt-goblin kritters which can swarm you plus bonus "worship dragons" plot tie-in
if they wanted to do dragonborns right they should have done like goblins and made Hob-kobolds, Dire Kobolds, Koborcs, lol
that way its all on the same page, the big bad dragon with his tiers of different enough Kobold-family underlings

dragonborn are just worthless as hell
no tail
no wings
boobs/muscles exactly like a standard-ass humanoid
what is the fucking point, it has nothing that the half-dragon types actually wanted
the design they went with appeals to no one

not to mention that amateurhour name
you know what else is a dragon"born"?
a real dragon

Imo it distracts from the already existing kobolds and lizardfolk

Also, I'd have much preferred them to be the dragon equivalent of a tiefling or aasimar. Your great grandmother fucked a dragon (hopefully in human form) and now you can breath fire or you have wings or so on.

But I like dragonborn. One of my favorite races.
Why would you want that? The game overflows with half-races, what value is there in changing up the halves? Shit man all you really need is half-orc and your good. Turathian tieflings and reincarnating devas were far better than their half-breed counterparts

Also lizardfolk are savage monsters and draconic kobolds a shit.

Dragonborns in 3rd edition were different races who took up the call to serve Bahamut and were incased in an egg and came out as a silver draconic variant of whatever race they were before.

4e onward they were just lizard-dragon people with reptilian tits that could be any color to obviously magical realm the shit out of the game.

There is a good reason they have been hated ever since then.

It makes me angry that it's okay to play a Dragonborn but wanting to play a Hobgoblin is monsterrace munchkining

I only allow them because scalies always choose that over actual lizardmen.

just to play ball i'll tip my hand, i thought about reworking the statline into "Noble Beastfolk", the dragon color pick is more of what species you are, the Str and Cha are from your primal lineage, and the breath weapon is like a roar or predator's Evil Eye spelllike ability

good aligned beastmen alt-orcs are a lot easier to work into a fantasy world than these wonky dragon alt-orcs, before you complain about furry, these are a straight across swap of the scaleyness of the stock dragonborns

They were hated since 3rd edition for being snowflakes.

Then they were hated in 4th for being standardized.

Seems like there's just no winning.

Also 4e dragonborn only ranged from yellow to reddish brown. They specifically didn't have chromatic/metallic colors like actual dragons, but then 5e forgot that and made them a rainbow.

>good aligned beastmen alt-orcs are a lot easier to work into a fantasy world than these wonky dragon alt-orcs
How? It's not like they're easier to tie into the titualr aspect of a game called Dungeons and DRAGONS.

It'd give a bit more variation to how they end up, and would differentiate them from every other lizardy monsterman

lizardmen and kobolds are the best

beastmen have been in fantastic fiction forever, dragons are fine as the unstoppable boss monsters but having these walkaround no-wings no-tail dragonborn people is less precedented than beastfolk

Dog kobolds are the best, yes. Japs had the right idea.

I hate you user.

So the reasoning is "everyone else does it so we should keep doing it"?

Is this what fantasy has become?

That's the point, though. You don't play the Dragons, you kill the dragons. ever wonder why there's no half-dungeon race? Turning an iconic antagonist thing into a player option always was and always will be stupid.

not to mention purely from a aesthetic standpoint Hasbro's dragonborns are a pure failure

thematically if you want draconic influenced humanoids there are more stylish ways to do it, for instance Iron Kingdoms really differentiates their dragons in a clear way

this is a tropey game go with what works just make sure you do it in a good way instead of halfassed

>When the DM doesn't let me use an anime dragongirl token for my Dragonborn

Jokes on you, I'm still a monstergirl in my theatre of the mind

>They don't need to be able to breastfeed, since they're lizards. The boobs are pointless.
They don't seem to be able to, regardless. No nipples. But that doesn't make them pointless - they still serve as secondary sexual characteristics.

I love em, nothing like playing honourbound dragonman who is pompous and protects his comrades like they are a part of his horde

cringe

Why does being lizards make a difference? Isn't the only necessity that the child can't feed itself effectively? If it has no teeth/is born relatively helpless, nursing would be useful.

It's censored dummy

Why not have both?

>they still serve as secondary sexual characteristics
How so?

Because as cool as they are, they're really difficult to justify being there in the first place unless you're running an official D&D campaign.

Every one I've made has just been "Father/Mother banged a dragon", because it's far easier to work with than, "we are actually a secret sect of holy men who devote themselves to dragons and in return are reborn as magical beast men."

to answer your question, bottom line i just don't like them, i've already explained why

im saying that since they are in the PHB players have the option to pick them and since i don't like to limit player choice then im stuck with them

before you call me a faggot and that my opinion doesn't matter or whatever remember that the explicit purpose of the thread to complain about dragonborns

>Every one I've made has just been "Father/Mother banged a dragon", because it's far easier to work with than, "we are actually a secret sect of holy men who devote themselves to dragons and in return are reborn as magical beast men."
That isn't what they've been for two editions now though. There were born from the spilled blood of the slain dragon god in 4e, and are the product of inexplicably mutated dragon eggs in 5e. Then you have dragonlance's forcibly mutated dragon eggs draconians, and darksun's sorcerer-king's passtime experiment dray.

You can pretty much give them beastmen like origins with little issue, or make up whatever the fuck you want. As long as the setting has dragons, dragonmen can fit just fine.

Platypusses (platypi?) don't have nipples, but still lactate. It just sort of sweats out, if I remember right. Since my argument for dragonborn boobs rests on the idea that dragons have more biologically in common with monotremes than reptiles, this also explains the lack of nipples.

wtf where is benis;DD

Too niche to fit in a lot of campaigns.

Also, no darkvison.

>dragons have true sight
>dragonborn don't even have dark vision
kek

google 'cloaca'

Why would they have a cloaca if the females have mammal-like breasts?

Because they have the best of both worlds user.

Because if I want to play as a dragon, I'll play FantasyCraft and go all the way with it.

Same reason why monotremes and synapsids have cloacas while also still secreting milk

Why (you) dislike thread.

Other than no tail, I am fine with them.

>Why do you dislike the best race in D&D?
Because I preferred the 3.5 version of the Dragonborn

Because humans can break away from good and be the only alignment worth playing true neutral.

And name one thing a dragonborn can do that a human can't.

>It's impossible to put dragonborn into a low-magic setting
>playing D&D in a low-magic setting.

Low magic settings are definitely the most fun way to play D&D.

...

Hahahahahaha
You obviously haven't played a cool high magic setting have you?

>It's impossible to put dragonborn into a low-magic setting, if you're doing a low-magic setting, straight up tell your players they're not allowed to play dragonborn

Huh? They seem to work fine in low magic. They are not innately spellcasters like Dragonlance Draconians.

Only if its 5e or AD&D. Other editions are very poor at running a low magic setting, which oddly enough punishes martials just as much (if not more so) than casters

Weirdly enough, 4e is a pretty good one for low magic IF you want to go Zorro-style low-grit as well. You can have martials fill basically every single role (And a lot of non-martial classes like the Monk are easy to fluff as non-magical). Wouldn't use it for anything gritty but low-magic and high-grit don't line up inherantly.

Funny thing: There is a fighter power that has you carve your initials into a guy like Zorro. It marks the guy for the entire battle, until you or him are taken out and that mark can't be removed or surpassed by anyone else.

That's what fantasy has been since Tolkien.

I played in a "cool" high magic setting for nearly 10 years. It was fun at first, but got really fucking old.
Putting magic everywhere makes it commonplace, and takes the mystery and meaningfulness out of the setting, and makes problems way too easy to solve.
Especially if your DM does the whole "you just need a big crystal with enough magic energy" thing.

But even if he doesn't, then the simple fact that there are multiple spellcasters and heroes with magic up their ass and decked out in a veritable Christmas tree of magic items just kind of lounging around, makes it really fucking weird that anything you do at practically any time during your campaign has any value.
"Why doesn't one of the eight Supermen in the local region just fix it?" is a legitimate question that most high (or even moderately-high) magic settings (e.g. forgotten realms) don't have a satisfactory answer to. Let alone "why don't all rich people just pay clerics to resurrect them ahead of time?" and other important questions like that.

Low magic makes you zoom in, and makes things matter. Even if the party has a wizard or a cleric, there probably aren't any others for miles around - and the ones that are, might not even be that strong.
Holy shit, there's a witch in the forest. Holy shit there's a cave full of trolls in those mountains. Holy shit, etc.
... Okay, how do we deal with it without getting killed?

Also, the fact that I'm using adult words might've tipped you off to the fact that I'm not actually talking to you personally, since you're clearly an actual 14 year old boy. Don't expect me to reply to more of your puerile nonsense.

My DM has us, the party of complete newbies teleport into the new world.
Turns out there was a previous crew of one of each class who came years before us, who have been doing epic level quests for decades. They meet us and put us on notice not to get in their way. The DM describes us as being jealous of them.
So finally they agree to teleport us to the closest nearby town, once we get there the village elders tell us there is not much need for adventurers because apparently the other team stops by every so often after killing dragons and defeating evil.
So we end up doing a quest to find out what happened to a missing scout, yada yada. When we get back we learn that the epic level party just stopped by, they dropped off some important thing and left a few hours ago, all the NPCs are sitting pretty.
Feels like we actual PCs are just dicking around.

I like Bangaa
I want to play in an Ivalice setting
tfw no friends who are into those games

The ubiquity of magic doesn't ruin a setting.

high level heros are extremely rare, and magic items are typically special with long backstories involved.

Magic is everywhere, but you very rarely see extremely powerful magic, as it takes training and devotion.

You assume that every town has a 20th level cleric or wizard just chilling in it and that's false. 10 or higher heros are nation leaders, 20 or higher heros are emperors or gods.

You've assumed that a high magic setting is the generic D&D setting, but that's not entirely true.

Yes rich people can go get rezed by the clerics, but those clerics are few and far between.

Also keep in mind that evil also has 10th level or higher heros.

You've obviously constructed a straw man, and assumed that high magic means stupid high magic. Stop being a pretentious bum who thinks that people don't like settings with magic.

>The DM describes us as being jealous of them.
The DM does not get to dictate how player characters feel unless there are mind-affecting abilities at play.

>tfw no friends who are into those games
That's because it's escapism, user. Can't you see it's not healthy?

Divinity: Original Sin 2 have boobless lizard kin.

Well he did so

They're warm blooded mammals with scales.
The real secret is that most "lizard" people in fiction are actually pangolin people.
Think about it. It's the only logical conclusion.

>... Okay, how do we deal with it without getting killed?

That's more low grit than low magic. Zorro is no magic and very much not gritty/a thing where you worry about getting killed a lot.

I'm totally okay with fantasy krogans

>but having these walkaround no-wings no-tail dragonborn people is less precedented than beastfolk
Yet Veeky Forums sucks kobold dicks all day long.

I would love to play as one in fantasy setting considering their original setting is dead anyway

kobolds do have tails and also can have wings

THE DRAGONS SHALL RULE AGAIN

Dragonborn can get wings too

>Why would I be confused about a hominid reptile having legs?

Homonids have legs, but female homonids also have breasts.

>>They need to be able to walk.

Lots of non-homonids are bipedal, but none of them have an upright homonid posture.

The one on the right has broad shoulders, a jutting jaw, analogue for hair on the head, a six pack and other uniquely Homo Sapiens male secondary sexual characteristics.

Even if you removed the breasts from the one on the left, it still has a greater chest/waist/hip ratio, analogue for longer hair, and a narrower jaw.

Lizard tits are hardly the only distinctly human thing going on here.

Normal freakin humans can get wings.

It's not hard

They're descendants of dragons taking human form and breeding with mortals. What the fuck are you talking about? They're the epitome of high fantasy.

Because lizard folk are better

>They're descendants of dragons taking human form and breeding with mortals
That's half dragons. See

>The real secret is that most "lizard" people in fiction are actually pangolin people.

Pangolins having human secondary sexual characteristics is as retarded as Dragons having them. Female pangolins don't have hourglass figures, breasts, or daintier mouths and male pangolins don't have big upper bodies, six packs, or chiseled jaws and adam's apples.

Making non-humans human in form isn't about "science". It's an artistic/storytelling device.

Physically and mentally, there's not a ton of difference, IMO

That's half-dragons. Dragonborn are a race that breed with themselves like any other. Their creation myth is that they are formed from the blood of a slain dragon god but that's pretty classic creation myth stuff (And no weirder than real life ones)

Dragonmen are pretty rad but I like playing a lizardfolk more.

Similarly, in a setting like Tribe 8, every single character is capable of using some kind of magic and you spend a lot of time dealing with gods, demons, and spirits and other supernatural monstrosities.

But trying to say that it's hard to die, that everything is easy to do, and there's no challenge, would be dead wrong.

>Making non-humans human in form isn't about "science". It's an artistic/storytelling device.
>implying I wasn't mocking the original question "Y lizard lady have boobs? Lizard no have boobs."

It'd be more of a joke if weren't an actual argument that many people have legitimately tried to make.

Almost like its a poor qualifier for anything of importance

>(And no weirder than real life ones)
Given most creation myths, it's potentially actually weird that it was just blood instead of semen or something.

Yeah, the Old Kingdom Trilogy is another on that sort. Magic is so common that you'll find multiple people in every town who can cast some basic stuff, nearly every healer is a decent spellcaster and literally everyone knows one spell (The one to burn dead bodies because undead are that common).

On the other hand? It's a setting where people lose arms to infection and get killed by a single arrow or a IED

Its literally been decades and still people are too dumb to read what dragonboenrn actually are. Fantasy is a hopeless genre.

Pretty sure average american housewife wouldn't happy with semen in her child's books however much he spills nightly

That's why, when I design a race, I start by sketching out a gender-neutral proportion model and then come up with lists of the secondary characteristics for each sex. After photocopying the gender-neutral model, I then modify the copies with the chosen dimorphisms--and only the chosen dimorphisms--to get the generic sexed appearances.

For some reason, my group seems particularly interested in the species with wide-hipped, higher bodyfat percentage males with low waist-to-hip ratios.

I would play as Foghorn warrior to be honest.
Loos cool.