Fixing errors and chugging along edition!

Gay lord

k then.

Rolled 65 (1d100)

I won't call it a tradition, but might as well pad out the thread's posts with a gun like I usually do

Rolled 1 (1d2)

Machine gun

Rolled 13, 36, 74 = 123 (3d100)

Light machine gun

Rolled 45, 11, 96, 59, 16 = 227 (5d100)

Medium-rate autofire-only, belt-fed light machine gun

A light machine gun chambered in 6.7 Remington SPC. Belt-fed, has a 50' range increment and a 40% error range, has upgrade points on the frame, barrel, optic, and one tactical point, can only fire at medium-rate full auto, and comes with a fixed stock.

Wow that's kinda shit

That's really shit, actually. Shit range, shit caliber, shit ER.

>50 ft range increment
>6.8 Remington
What is this, some sort of madman's experiment in an MG with a 10.5 inch barrel?

Having to both exercise up and then also keep up your ability scores seems pretty cruel.

Funny enough, I also was thinking of rebuilding d20 Modern, since I like modern settings and I like the d20 system in general, but with classes instead of the Ability Heroes of d20 modern or this classless setup.

Well, in older editions there were classes. which one of my players prefers

d20 Modern style Ability Heroes, or legit classes?

My idea is to basically take character archetypes from movies, video games, etc, and make that into the classes. So, how classes always come about, I guess. Ace (pilot or driver), Scientist, Priest, Martial Artist, Soldier, etc.

This.

They were removed becasue this is better.

Sorry man.

You went to all that effort and left the Wealth system intact?

There's no wealth system like d20 modern, it got replaced with "Wealth points" which are vague units of currency.

>You went to all that effort and left the Wealth system intact?

Of course not. Wealth Points are about $20 USD.

They were d20 modern-style Ability Heroes. Going away from that into actually archetypes isn't the worst way to do classes, really

My only real issue (and presumably my player's issue) is that you get absolutely no save bonuses at all unless you buy them, which I've found my players aren't keen on doing.

>wealth system
>levels
>retarded formula for level 1 hp
>saving the d20 modern wealth system
>gun rules that any /k/ommando could easily create
>keeping the two dozen synonymic conditions from d20 system
>keeping so much of the crap from the d20 system that no one liked
>not just stripping down to core ideas of d20 mechanic and 3-18 scores
>unironically keeping flatfooted so that it only matters if you have above-average dex
>vitality and wound points with special names cause they're not really vitality and wound points even though they are
>action points to spend on your turn like it's some minis wargame
>endless tables
>can still heal someone by drowning them
lol

>unironically keeping flatfooted so that it only matters if you have above-average dex
>can still heal someone by drowning them
explain these to me, I don't get what you're talking about.

...

>>wealth system
There is no wealth system

>>levels
Yep.

>>retarded formula for level 1 hp
You basically double your normal HP. How is this hard?

>>saving the d20 modern wealth system
There is no wealth system

>>gun rules that any /k/ommando could easily create
Not an argument.

>>keeping the two dozen synonymic conditions from d20 system
What?

>>keeping so much of the crap from the d20 system that no one liked
Like?

>>not just stripping down to core ideas of d20 mechanic and 3-18 scores
Which is?

>>unironically keeping flatfooted so that it only matters if you have above-average dex
Yeah, if you're flatfooted. Wear armor. Armor saves lives.

>>vitality and wound points with special names cause they're not really vitality and wound points even though they are
I never said they weren't. Thats exactly what they are, Again, your point?

>>action points to spend on your turn like it's some minis wargame
What?

>>endless tables
No end in sight, user

>>can still heal someone by drowning them
What? What the hell are you talking about?

I think what he means by
>>keeping the two dozen synonymic conditions from d20 system
is that you're using the standard d20 conditions like "stunned" and "blinded"

What the hell is wrong with that?

I'm gonna say he's starting shit for the sake of starting shit, because "ree d20 is shit"

If you are flat-footed and have 8 Dex, it means nothing. Catching someone by fucking surprise means nothing if they are clumsy. Explain how the fuck that makes sense. GURPS makes it so a "flat-footed" person cannot dodge AT ALL. Savage Worlds gives a +4 to hit and damage if you catch someone flat-footed. The d20 system for how flat-footed works is always and has always been fucking retarded. Also:
>characters is bleeding out
>drop in pool
>goes to -1 hp
>back to life
>pull him out of water

...

When you absolutely, positively have to be a tunnel rat, but want the dakka too.

>characters is bleeding out
>drop in pool
>goes to -1 hp
>back to life
>pull him out of water

But you don't stop bleeding to death. At all. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works at all. You continue to bleed to death, even if you're drowning and stop.

The Drowning rules only work if you're above 0, not below it.

I'll give you the flatfooted thing, but the drowning thing is incorrect, since below zero is incapacitated and you take bleed damage in this, unlike normal d20, so even if drowning them brought them to 0 health, they'll take bleed damage anyways and fall unconcious if not die, the next turn. That's also if you're not going to use common sense and say "he's still fucking dying"

Also "Flat footed" doesn't mean "Catching someone by surprise." That's a surprise round.

I mean, from a purely pedantic standpoint he's right, the drowning rules don't cover this exploitative edge case.

Because most of the conditions are redundant. You don't need 8 different conditions for "taking a penalty to rolls". Dazed, dazzled, shaken, sickened: sure, there are distinctions between them, but they all do basically the same fucking thing, except dazed is loss of action. For christ's sake, no one wants to learn that dumb shit. Make one or two conditions and be done with it. Even Palladium games didn't have this level of stupid autism.

>Yep.
And they are trash, because they are an overly-linear way of character improvement. If you didn't use levels, you wouldn't need overly-complicated shit like XHP and CHP or whatever the fuck you called them.
>using 3d6 + adds core mechanic
Please stop.
>You basically double your normal HP. How is this hard?
It's not hard, it's just formatted retardedly and makes your game look like the giant pile of formulae that it is right off the bat. Stop thinking that just because your mechanic isn't hard to understand, that it's good, cause it's not. It's inelegant and a heap of shit.
>Not an argument.
I didn't say it was, just pointing out that anyone on /k/ could make better gun rules. Fucking hell, I've seen people making customizable gun rules that let you convert any gun to Savage Worlds, with recoil considerations based on gun weight and shit. It fit on like 3 pages instead of 200, loaded down with crap you copypasted (or, even sadder, retyped) from the d20 modern core rulebook.
>Thats exactly what they are
Then just call them what people are familiar with. You're like the people who have to call Strength "Brawn" or Dexterity "Finesse" to be different. Just turns me off a game right away cause it's highlighting its complete lack of original ideas.

There is not a single thing that this game does that GURPS and Savage Worlds cannot do more of, better, and in fewer pages. And while not having to deal with the abortion that is the d20 ruleset.

...

Sure you can keep bleeding to death but you can just dip him back in when he gets to -7 or so, then continue this until paramedics show up.

>There is not a single thing that this game does that GURPS and Savage Worlds cannot do more of, better, and in fewer pages. And while not having to deal with the abortion that is the d20 ruleset.

Then play that?

>The Drowning rules only work if you're above 0, not below it.
It says that literally nowhere in your rules.

Then why would anyone play this game? What does it offer that GURPS and Savage Worlds do not? Give me one experience I can have in your game that I cannot have in GURPS or Savage Worlds.

I personally don't see any issues with the various conditions honestly, like you said, there's plenty of distinctions between them, though there is a bit of overlap.

>Then why would anyone play this game? What does it offer that GURPS and Savage Worlds do not? Give me one experience I can have in your game that I cannot have in GURPS or Savage Worlds.

Honestly? If you want me to try and convince you why you should abandon the systems that you obviously prefer. I'm not going to do that.

I could talk about the magic system, or the way the guns are handled, or whatever, but I know that's not going to "Convince" you, because you already have your mind set on what you like. And that's fine.

I, personally, do not like GURPS. I find it limiting on the side of character generation, but in a roundabout way. Becasue Gurps records EVERYTHING about your character, and attempting to rip that bit from the rules tends to break the rules, I'd rather just not use it. Furthermore, while I am quite familiar with Hi-Tech, it is a bit dated, and It does not have enough firearms for my taste, nor does it have any semblance of real structured firearms upgrades(If there is, let me know, I have every book in 4th).

If you like it? Good. Play that. I don't care. And I want you to understand that I don't think you any less for not liking OaTs. If you don't like it, that's cool. No skin off my back.

I wrote this for me. I share it because there are quite a few people who also enjoy it.

TL;DR: Personal preference.

I'll fix that in the next version. Since it's an apparent "issue".

>I didn't say it was, just pointing out that anyone on /k/ could make better gun rules. Fucking hell, I've seen people making customizable gun rules that let you convert any gun to Savage Worlds, with recoil considerations based on gun weight and shit. It fit on like 3 pages instead of 200, loaded down with crap you copypasted (or, even sadder, retyped) from the d20 modern core rulebook.

I'd like to see these rules, do you have copies?

>And they are trash, because they are an overly-linear way of character improvement. If you didn't use levels, you wouldn't need overly-complicated shit like XHP and CHP or whatever the fuck you called them.

What would you prefer?

>Then just call them what people are familiar with. You're like the people who have to call Strength "Brawn" or Dexterity "Finesse" to be different. Just turns me off a game right away cause it's highlighting its complete lack of original ideas.

Different people are familiar with different things.

>there's plenty of distinctions between them
There's barely any goddamn distinction. They are pointless. Explain what fucking value they add, the different between "dazed" and "dazzled" and "stunned" and jesus fucking christ. Don't get me wrong, I know the difference, I ran my fair share of 3.pf campaigns. But they were always a shit mechanic that dragged down the system. No one wants to flip through the rulebook to look them up, and no one wants to learn them.

...

Well the distinction comes from the source, if you know what they do, then you should know that dazzled and dazed are entirely different penalty (even if they're named similarly) and likewise that stunned is a very bad thing, it's either that or everything that deals such a condition has another sentence or two explaining that it "imposes x penalty to the character"

>if you know what they do, then you should know that dazzled and dazed are entirely different penalty
But why? What the fuck does it add to the game?

Useful options for players or GMs to even playing fields, and like I mentioned, condenses down descritpions on items, it's easier to say "if hit by this the character is dazed for 1 round" instead of "the character hit by this is unable to take any actions during their turn, but gains no penalty to defense" for every single item that dazes someone.

An effective method for enemies to temporarily-disable party members that can add challenge to an encounter.

Methods for PCs to weaken, disable, or take down enemies.

A descriptor that provides the GM for a quick way of describing the result of an action the PC takes that doesn't kill the enemy (like a punch to the throat, dropping a chandelier on an enemy, a blow to the reproductive organs, etc).

Just play twilight:2000

> twilight:2000

That game is a mess.

As much as Twilight:2000 looks cool (I haven't been able to play it) this is an entirely different flavor of game, it's really not comparable.

What he's basically asking is "Why not do it like gurps?" That essentially prescribes a wide number of "effects" to a single thing.

Like pepper spray is "Spray in the eyes + stun" or something like that.

To be fair to the shitposter, levels are a strange thing to include since they create large leaps in power that would seem out of genre for most modern-setting fiction.

I don't really think so, a highly trained special ops soldier is gonna be way above the level of a beat cop. Which can be reflected quite well with levels, just the way HP is handled can lead to a bit of bloat at high levels. My biggest gripe with the game comes from high level play basically being two guys with huge attack bonuses burst firing at each other until someone's armor fails and they die.

I'd agree, if there wasn't a large "Glass cannon" kind of situation with a lot of the characters. The health between levels is not a very large amount, so it's not as if..lets say a level 10 is leagues ahead of someone who's a level 3. It's an easy way to meter growth without having to resort to trying to balance the cost of upgrades to some weird EXP cost chart(Which I had to do anyway since you basically build your character.

> just the way HP is handled can lead to a bit of bloat at high levels.

How high are you talking? I suppose if you forgo everything in COP and just focus on health and CON you could get it fairly high, but the losses of thigns like saving throws, skill points, BAB, and the like would severely limit your character.

For example, shining a tactical flashlight into an orc's eye would "dazzle" them, as they'd be unable to see you particularly well due to the powerful light in their face.

Kicking said orc in the balls would "daze" him -- he's able to react to your actions (dodging if you try to kick him in the balls again), but he's not really able to do much for a few seconds, as he's busy groaning and shielding his crotch.

Kicking the orc in the back of the head might stun him -- he's not KO'd, but a blow to the spine can get someone really close for a split second, and as a result he's not really able to do much and he's not cognizant enough to react to your attacks.

This is opposed to nauseated (can't do much except try to vomit) vs sickened (feeling ill is distracting, and puts off his center of balance, but he's still able to operate for the most part).

Almost all of these are effective ways of providing story to a situation. They're also good for providing versimilitude, if that's your thing.

Personally, I like having terms for what happens when I kick an orc in the dick. Sure, the DM could make it up, but having it exist in the system makes it seem a lot more fair -- especially when the orc kicks you in the dick right back.

One of my level 5 players has 55 XHP and topped out BAB, he does suffer from a lack of saves and skills though, which is what got him when I tossed a tear gas grenade.

Sorry, it's 52 XHP, he's still got a solid attack bonus before feats for his level. Just requiring a save is gonna fuck him and he's got no skills, though it's a team game so someone else can generally cover for him.

So is yours.

>One of my level 5 players has 55 XHP and topped out BAB, he does suffer from a lack of saves and skills though, which is what got him when I tossed a tear gas grenade.

The system works! There's more to life than HP.

>52 XHP

A well placed headshot could forgo all of that. Super heavy armor is shit to move in, and the lighter armors don't exactly protect against bullets for very long, let alone rifle rounds(308 will CHEW UP a soft vest), so even with that much health he's still very vulnerable. The XHP gives him a bit more of a buffer, but damage in Ops and Tactics is high as all hell, and it's not like D&D where taking 1-3d6 every turn is the norm. The right child soldier with the right AK in the right place can make all the difference.

Furthermore. Checked.

Of course, but I'm still working on mine.

Well to be fair, headshot penalties are pretty big, so you'd have to have a *very* strong NPC to be able to nail that consistently, and by RAW a simple steel helmet will at least block it once.

Well, it's a -9.

Lvl 4 with +4 BAB, a +3 marksmanship and a rifle/handgun that has some upgrades that gives it a +2(Custom grip) negates all that. So you're just rolling 3d6.

But yeah, helmets also save lives. But not against AKs.

That is still a pretty strong NPC especially at level 4, even the higher level characters in the field manual don't have a total bonus that high. Someone like that should be a more important NPC. Granted popping players heads consistently is a bad idea in of itself.

True.

But it's really not that strong, especially when you consider that they forgo anything else, like str, or con.

Eh, not really, you can at least get above average strength or con and average other stats if you want, then you can add stance and flanking mods.

bump of life.

I suppose i'll bump it as well, since it's still up.

>base attack bonus
Why the hell are you using shit from 3.5 in this?

Because without it the attack rolls would stagnate.