/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Not him, but a DM and players can add infinite amount of flavor. It's called "using your own goddamned imgination".

If you are lacking in mechanics to play around with, that's an entirely different issue, and conflating the two just muddles the waters.

That said, I prefer 4e.

5e is rules medium at best, simplifying further would leave it at rules light. Something like Barbarians of Lemuria or more simple OSR games maybe.

Considering what 5e is trying to do, this may not be a bad thing.

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/
different poster, but I'm pretty sure it's this

Playing a level 3 celestial tomblock what first 2 Eldritch Invocations should I take?

Are there any decent grung race templates out? I want to allow them in my ToA campaign but since there's not an official one I don't know what to use.

Just include the optional rules from the DMG. That's all the complexity you would need.

>no prestige classes (archetypes do not fill this roll well enough)
What role do you feel prestige classes fulfill that archetypes do not?

>no exotic weapons
This was a conscious decision and I consider it a good one. Exotic weapons added very little to the game, except the rare ones that actually had interesting rules attached. Bastard swords, double weapons, and so forth deserve to have been merged into (refluffed) martial weapons.

book of shadows, agonizing blast

Alright so the group I DM doesn't have a dedicated healer, closest is a circle of moon druid, all at level 2. Druid has the herbalist kit and makes potions of healing from time to time. During first session we winged it instead of stopping play to look everything up and I was wondering if this sounds balanced or if we should go RAW

>can use 1 hour short rest to brew a single potion of healing

>this uses 1 unit of herbs from herbalism kit

>can purchase herbs or use 1 hour of short rest time to gather a unit of herbs with nature check dc10 for familiar terrain (woods for this character) or dc15 for unfamilliar terrain

>considering giving them 2 stacks for nat 20

>doing one of these actions during short rest means you do not recover hp/spells

>potion of healing restores 1 hit die of hp+constitution mod, no swigging potions in combat

Again, came up with this on the fly and keep in mind no dedicated healer.

No prestige classes was the point though.

Dedicated healers are a meme. Short resting restores you all the HP you need, and long rest heals you entirely.

This.

All PrCs do compared to archetypes and multiclassing is have fucked up power curves.

A Druid is already good enough of a healer anyway. They got healing word and cure wounds and shit

If you simply *must* boost that, look into giving that unearthed arcana magic potion spell as well

Don't fuck around with bs crafting rules, especially not when we're so close to XANATHAR

If they get enough rests they don't need dedicated healer. Sure, it's is always nice to have one, but on the other hand it is also nice to have someone smashing the shit out of enemy, so... I wouldn't bother. (Unless you enjoy bothering - but frankly, your solution seems clunky. Not imbalanced, just clunky.)

Let someone take Healer feat if they want. Maybe let them find more healing potions and Wand of Cure wounds than usual.

book of shadows is the pact boon you mean Book of Ancient Secrets?

5e is my first edition, so I don't have any experience with them, but I think they could work in 5e for incredibly niche things. Like, say, a specific Ninja class, could have it require some levels in Rogue (maybe specifically the Assassin subclass) and some levels in Monk (also maybe specifically the shadow subclass).

Or you could just make a rogue (assassin) / monk (shadow) multiclass character.

Or, depending on what interpretation of Ninja you are going with, just go arcane trickster/bladesinger.

Possibly make feats that gives you the features that are missing from these.

What else do you want your Ninja to do that rogue and shadow monk don't do already?

I kind of understand the appeal of secret cvlts and super techniques they held in secret, but frankly, it DOES tend to break the game on mechanical side. It is better left only as fluff thing.

Or you could go way of the shadow monk. Prestige classes aren't needed.

Or, if you really feel like your concept isn't being captured, make an archetype for it. There's no need for a prestige class - on the contrary, I'd bet the player would rather live the power fantasy as early as possible.

Who's hyped for the new UA in a week?

>Or, depending on what interpretation of Ninja you are going with, just go arcane trickster/bladesinger.
You know, I used to give Naruto a lot of flack for being "Wizard Duels: the Anime," but further research taught me that there is very little in the anime that's not based in historical ninja myths.

>I'd bet the player would rather live the power fantasy as early as possible.

Yes, this is definitely a consideration. Given WotC's current module progression of 1-10, if prestige were a thing, I think we'd need to be looking at prereq's of level 3/level 3 + some stats, maybe requiring a specific feat, as opposed to level 5/level 5 as a prereq.

give me my food&provisions you cuck

You know what I'd really like to see? Weapon, armor and other item upkeep rules. I don't much care for the whole "Fighter's longsword from level 1 still works fine now that he's level 12." I don't want to handwave it into lifestyle expenses either.

that's not bad actually
now combine it with food&provisions

>I can see why fans of 3e or 4e might think so, but i personally would prefer if it was EVEN MORE simplified.
That's the problem, as I see it. It doesn't have enough complexity to be interesting and it isn't light enough to be flexible.

Why the fuck not?

Do you really want to penny and dime your players? Do you really want to "haha, you forgot to explicitly say 'I buy a new sword in town'gotcha!"?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Not just for my players, I want to reforge my shit sometimes as a player too! I like stupid shit like that.

>prereq's of level 3
So... archetypes? :^)

I sorta know what you mean. It's the "refluff and homebrew" edition, but it can sometimes take a lot of insight and creativity to employ those tools to achieve what you want. Some players genuinely need either a crunchier system that does the work for them or a lighter system that makes improvisation and creativity much simpler.
For a good set of players, though (hopefully), the balance of 5e is at the right place. I know it is for me, but I've always been willing to refluff and homebrew, long before 5e tailored itself to the style.

then play harvest moon ffs

nobody cares about you reforging your sword enough to dedicate time to it

what would you even want out of it? 5e doesn't do small bonuses for masterwork and shit like that

You mean include trap and terrible options and options that reward system mastery, and include rules that bog down combat to a show crawl when it's really just full attacking, that kind of "complexity"? I thought we were moving explicitly away from that.

why are you being an asshole

this guy just said he liked that shit and would like to see it in 5e

it's not like he's saying 5e is shit because it doesnt have that

fuck off dude

Personally, I'm in a group that doesn't really support any homebrewing at all. At the same time, we don't usually play DnD. We have been lately, which is why it's been on my mind and why it's been bugging me.

Part of the problem, from my perspective, is that 5th ed claims to be flexible, but the rules don't really support it. The framework just isn't there, and too often abilities and mechanics are extremely specific about how and when they work. So the argument that it's a system designed to allow players and GMs to tweak thing and make on the fly rulings doesn't hold much water for me. I mean, you can certainly change whatever you want anyways, but that isn't really to the system's credit.

slow* crawl.

because I fucking hate it when the game gets lost in minutae like that

no, I don't want to stop because the fighter wants to autistically detail how he oils his bowstring, just as much as I don't want to stop for the wizard to collect guano from his familiar

I have 6 free hours a week, I'm not going to spend it listening to some entitled assholes describe doing frankly irrelevant shit that doesn1t even interact with anyone else

Combat shouldn't be just full attacking. That's boring. You don't have enough interesting tactics at your disposal to make combat fun. And because the system isn't light enough to let you get really creative with how you approach any given encounter, you're generally limited to rigidly defined rules and abilities of your class.

Half the posts you commented do not advocate for increased crunch. Chillax, user.

I think one of the issues is that 5e is proper flexible... with a very good DM. It's not a DM-friendly edition, although it does give tools to very experienced ones.
Sort of ironic, but it's probably the reason the game is as popular as it's ever been but nobody wants to DM.

>Combat shouldn't be just full attacking. That's boring.
Highly subjective. Some people like rolling the dice to get crits. Those people play barbarians and champions and there's nothing wrong with that.
Even then, using the environment cleverly is a thing if your table is a good one.
And other than barbarians and champions, every class has options. Even rogues, who don't really do much except attack, need to employ clever tactics continuously to be optimally efficient.

How vital is the fluff to 5E? I'm asking because I want to get a game rolling with just the free rules to see if my AD&D group would be interested. I also have no idea how defined the new setting and whatnot is.

FOOD
AND
PROVISIONS

>And other than barbarians and champions, every class has options. Even rogues, who don't really do much except attack, need to employ clever tactics continuously to be optimally efficient.

Not really. They can use their bonus action to set up an attack 99% of the time. If not, there's a good chance they have a familiar anyway. Before blade spells, you never even had a reason to go in.

Playing a rogue was dreadfully boring, because your single attack usually deals more than whatever environmental shit you could do by giving it up.

The fluff is not important. The system is setting-agnostic. Get the basic set and give it a spin.
>new setting
There isn't one. The """default""" setting is Forgotten Realms.

Established fluff in the PHB didn't stop me from telling my players to ignore it and just do whatever, we'll just create a new setting on our own
It's working pretty well

Alright so with a party of newer players how do you guys handle group conflict. My players both gave their character's arguments as well as why each character would go that route. They then wanted to make persuasion checks to talk each other into doing one thing or the other. I feel like in a way this discourages good role-playing but before this they were taking quite a bit of time holding the other players up while arguing and this method ended the discussion. No one was butt hurt about it afterwords either. Should this be a go to for any time the characters are split on what to do if they don't come to a compromise in a timely manner? I have generally just allowed persuasion, insight, etc to be allowed on NPC's.

3e/PF combats were absolute shithouse because you couldn't even move multiple times a turn, that was retarded. 5e got rid of that retardation and got rid of the autistic spreadsheet keeping, you can "just do whatever action" by rolling.

It does depend on the terrain and/or environment your DM throws at you, so it's contingent on them not being shit.

I always let the entire party vote on such matters.

Noted and thanks. I'll give it a whirl.

Sorry, to clarify this was only between two players, not the entire party. I think voting would work well if everyone was split on something.

No u

There isn't much 5e specific fluff and the setting (FR) is as important as you want it to be. You can always stick the ruleset onto the setting you're used to, with minor adjustments.

I'd let players to sort this sort of things on their own. No persuasion checks on PCs ever is my rule. Unless target player calls for it. "Gregg The Barbarian really want to A instead of B, but if you were really persuasive, you might win him over. How about you roll Persuasion or something?"

Which seems exactly what happened in your table. That seems OK to me.

If your complaint is that it gets in way of roleplaying, ask them to describe the rest of argument after roll.

Combat feels very stilted and samey to me. Every encounter plays out pretty much the same way: go for flanking, keep the squishier guys out of the fray. The swingy nature of the d20 means any other options you might have are comparatively unreliable, and will almost never be more efficient than whatever you have as your attack.

Opportunity attacks could be interesting, but they're so rare (barring some feat) that they're barely a factor. If forced movement triggered them, I think you could have a lot more interesting player cooperation and battlefield control would be all the more effective, but that's not how they work.

Even smaller things like allowing a monk to use their deflect missile ability on allies within five feet or something would go a ways toward making combat feel less like choosing stuff off a menu.

>3e/PF combats were absolute shithouse because you couldn't even move multiple times a turn, that was retarded.
I haven't played either, but I think I'd agree. That's a clear move away from a more rigid, binary rule to one that allows the player more freedom and flexibility. I just wish the rest of the combat system felt a little more like that.

>It does depend on the terrain and/or environment your DM throws at you, so it's contingent on them not being shit.
This seems right, in theory. The problem is that it could easily start feeling very gamey. The truth is there simply aren't that many different environments you'll be having a fight in. And if you start throwing in a bunch of stuff just to spice up the combat, you might find you're damaging the realism. Then I feel like you're fighting against the system more than playing to strengths.

>DM is fine with us rolling stats instead of using standard array/point buy
>end up rolling 16/16/14/14/11/11
Aight, the fuck do I do now, those stats are pretty fucking solid

If down the line play a martial like fighter, barbarian, fuck with those you could even get away with a wizard. If moveable play what ever and plug in the stats for it.

Should also mention rogue wouldn't be a bad choice

try this.
there is an V2 somewhere. better detail.

Monk it up, you finally got the stats for it.

yeah, moveable.
How does a Gnome (Forest) Wizard sound?
11/14+1/11/16+2/14/16
Just played a monk last campaign, kinda want a break from it

>Gnome
>Wizard
Don't forget to pick divination and the lucky feat asap. No really do you and what sounds fun

>there simply aren't that many different environments you'll be having a fight in
>if you start throwing in a bunch of stuff just to spice up the combat, you might find you're damaging the realism
Use your imagination more, senpai.
You could fight in a castle dungeon, with iron bars providing protection to ranged attackers and narrow corridors prohibiting flanking. Spikey torture devices provide environmental hazards you can shove people into.
You could fight in a field, with low fences providing partial cover against certain attacks and bales of hay providing high ground. You might want to go out of your way to avoid damaging crops, turning them into difficult terrain and forcing you to plant yourself between orc and orchard; or you may need to defend farm animals, turning them into cover that only your enemies can use.
You could fight near a chasm in an attempt to get to the bridge. The opportunities for shoving are obvious, and once on the bridge you are very limited in your tactical maneuvering. The chasm isn't a straight line, either, and cracks in the ground provide difficult terrain at the very least. Boulders and trees provide cover and stealth opportunities, and dry vegetation can be quite flammable.
You could even fight in Queen Elsa's fucking ice tower, with a slippery floor that makes you stumble and slide, doors that open into 50-foot drops, and sharp icicles growing from the walls, ready to impale anything sliding in their direction. You bet your ass fire will sculpt the battlefield if you use it.
And those are just the ideas I came up with in my underwear while suffering from severe jet lag.
The quality of adventure design hugely impacts all the issues you mention. Fun combat really is contingent upon how much work your DM puts in and how creative they can be, and nothing in the system makes it feel awkward or gamey.

TL;DR: git gud, scrub

only limiting factor I remember from basic rules is it lacks all the classes so if you want more you'll have to look it up

What book has the other classes, or are they only online?

Use the SRD and the Elemental Evil Companion

Or maybe you can get the PDFs for free

No need to virtue signal about not supporting piracy, this is not reddit

Besides the bonus attack from GWM, what do you guys think would be an interesting bonus action for great weapon fighters? I'm trying to create a magic item for my party's battle master.

Is witch an official class option or is it a homebrew?

Are there any high CR spiders outside of the MM/Volos? I'm talking full spiders like phase spiders, not driders, neogi, etc.

Homebrew.

Take any pick of Fiend you want
Refluff as spider

>Vampire spawn
Is now a vampire spider
>Fire elemental
Is now a fire elemental spider
>Tarrasque
Also spider

You don't need mechanics for that, though. Just say you do that on your downtime.

Is that all there is for it? I am planning to run a campaign about witch hunts and I would love to see it was something I could use.

Can a Lizardfolk Rogue with two weapon fighting make a Bite attack and then use his bonus action to attack with his offhand weapon?

If so, does that bonus action trigger Sneak Attack?

Homebrew for people too special to use an Archfey Warlock of the Tome with a flying monkey familiar

5e does have other rules that can be used in combat. The problem is they're mostly in the DMG, which players probably never read, so nobody uses them. That, and most of them don't deal damage, so they're objectively inferior to swinging your sword.

I can see why people get annoyed at others wanting random whatever stapled onto the system as official rules instead of just saying to your DM "hey I like x, is there a way to work that in or am I just being an ass hat using up everyone else's time because I like doing stupid shit?" We don't need tables for every little interaction and thing the players want to do, just talk to your DM ahead of time and see if they even want to bother or will make up rolls on the fly.

Are there actually any official colossal monsters in 5e

A bite attack is an unarmed strike.
One could do it, and then do flurry of blows

Doing off hand weapon attacks without a dual welding thing is a no go tho. They usually have to be made as part of an attack action with a weapon

Casting healers exist solely to get people up mid-combat at range, rather than having your more useful martials run up to shove a potion down someone's throat.

If you're really worried about the party's ability to heal non-incaps in combat, use the optional Healing Surge rules from the DMG. This way, everyone is their own healer.
At my table, taking a Healing Surge also grants Half Cover (+2 AC / Dex saves) until the start of that character's next turn. We also don't restore any HD during short rests, it's purely a long rest thing as usual.

You get one sneak attack per turn, as to the other bite doesn't grant you a free extra attack, it is an unarmed strikes that replaces one of your attacks.

No, that size category doesn't exist in 5e.

how about magically balanced - you can make an attack as a bonus action if you do not attack with your normal action or use a reaction to attack

basically allow them to use their reaction/disengage/help more often without sacrificing an attack

I'm not arguing there aren't interesting locations. I'm arguing that not every location is interesting. And you're almost always going to be getting into fights in uninteresting locations more often than in interesting ones.

Movement restrictions and difficult terrain don't seem like they add a lot to the combat. Realizing that you can use a choke point to your advantage, for instance, is a single revelation and a single decision point in a multi-round fight. The rest of the combat still involves attacking as normal. Being forced to move more slowly for a round or two, or avoiding a certain part of the environment simply isn't going to significantly impact the feel of the combat or how many interesting options you have at your disposal.

Likewise on environmental hazards you can use to your benefit. It's unlikely shoving an enemy into some sort of trap is going to be a more effective maneuver than employing a more typical attack. Unless you're shoving them off of something high enough to kill them it doesn't seem worth it. You're also potentially taking a riskier roll given the skill investment required.

There's multiple factors at play here, as I see it: the options you're given are generally rigidly defined, so you have to use them they way the book says 9 times out of 10 (barring house rulings); and the vertical growth and larger health pools of DnD mean the options you have at your disposal for more creative play are almost never as effective as your standard class tools.

I can't say for sure if we've been using these rules or not. We play with shoving, flanking, and grappling, but they never seem all that effective except in the odd relevant context. 90 percent of the time it's better if we just hit something, like you say.

It is mentioned in one of the books i think

Nah, biggest size category is gargantuan. A few I can think of off the top of my head that are in it would be the Kraken, Tarrasque, and Dragon Turtle

>wizards can skip all the expenses and upkeep of gathering spell components by having a fucking bag or shiny rock on their person
>fighter has to roll on a chart and make Oiling (Dexterity) checks every day or his sword loses a step of damage die
What if we just assumed that professional adventurers who managed to get to level 12 are competent at their respective jobs and perform regular field maintenance on their gear without bogging down the session time or blowing through a larger percentage of their gold when they get into town based on their class

I would count the bite as the sneak attack, and the off hand attack would be a normal offhand attack using your bonus action

The oficial titans out so far are the tarasque, the empyrean, the kraken, the atropal, and maybe the elemental primordials like Maegra the Dawn Titan

Bite wouldn't count as a sneak attack since it's a natural weapon and not a finesse one.

Serious question about game design that's been bothering me while reading through the tomb of anihilation set: what purpose do random encounters during travel actually serve in 5e?

I'm not talking about roaming monsters in dungeons, I get those are to keep players from taking a nap in the middle of the Tomb of Horrors. I'm talking about the encounter tables the "hex crawl" segment of TOA has you roll during travels through the jungles of Chult. I understand that in much older editions of the game, running into a roaming monster while traveling towards a dungeon was a tangible drain on your resources, but that feels like is become increasingly less so with each passing edition. The six-encounter adventuring day the rest of the game is balanced around doesn't quite come into play during overland travel, so having random monster fights feels like a general waste of time when everyone is recovering their full hit points at the end of every day of travel anyway.

>tfw some old dragon is stronger than primordial entities from before the birth of the gods
>parties of level 8 goobers regularly beat up both without being festooned with magical macguffins to de-power otherwise legendary creatures
5E creature building was a mistake